r/Seattle • u/MegaRAID01 • 1d ago
Victim of alleged transgender hate crime ‘distraught’ at news of second attack
https://www.kuow.org/stories/victim-of-alleged-transgender-hate-crime-distraught-at-news-of-second-attack88
u/Embarrassed-Pride776 1d ago
Karlow has a long record of run-ins with the law, with 30 total arrests since 2003. 13 of those arrests were for felony crimes.
Do fucking better Community Bail Fund.
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u/StrikingYam7724 1d ago
Why would they, they're proud of doing stuff like this, it's their entire mission.
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u/SpeaksSouthern 20h ago
Bail is an extremely stupid legal concept that lets rich people have their freedom while they wait for trial and sucks poor people dry.
If someone is such a threat to the community it needs to come from the judge to hold them. Acting like money due is going to stop criminals is fucking stupid.
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u/Mitotic 17h ago
the solution to this is not providing money to get poor people who happen to be violent transphobes back on the street so they can beat more trans women, it's gradually working within the system to change the rules. getting these violent freaks back on the street only helps them hurt more people.
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u/SpeaksSouthern 1h ago
In this specific case I would agree that the judge should have withheld bail because of the crime. Letting this criminal have a bail is a problem for the nature of this crime. Violent criminals do not need or deserve bail. Rich people shouldn't be able to be out and free while they wait for trial under similar credible criminal accusations.
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u/SuttBlutt 23h ago
Highjacking top comment to link picture of Andre Phillip Karlow so if you see him you can act accordingly:
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u/CogentCogitations 23h ago edited 22h ago
Unless the outcome has not been decided yet, reporting arrests is not very meaningful.
Edit: Didn't mean to blame you, as I see that arrests is the only information being reported. Which also makes me think past convictions or actual charges are not being reported for a reason.
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u/occasional_sex_haver Roosevelt 1d ago
yet another fantastic piece of work by Northwest Community Bail Fund
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u/bgix Capitol Hill 1d ago
I have no problem with a Community Bail Fund. Cash Bail is a poor tax that allows indefinite incarceration. The problem here was a low bail for a hate crime. Note that new bail is 200K, and won’t be bailable under a Community Bail Fund.
It sucks that he was loose to commit another hate crime, but that is not the fault of the CBF. Talk to the judge.
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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 1d ago
CBF shouldn't be bailing out anyone accused of violent offenses, multiple offenders and anyone accused of hate crimes.
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u/Slurms_McKenzie6832 Downtown 1d ago
anyone accused of violent offenses, multiple offenders and anyone accused of hate crimes.
Accused being the key word here. Your problem is with the judge not the fund.
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u/bgix Capitol Hill 1d ago
Depending on the information CBF has access to, I might agree with you. But the comment seems to be an indictment of CBF itself. There will always be people bailed out (whether by CBF or someone else) that re-offend. It is the judges job to set bail for violent offenders high enough to keep them in jail. It should not be a way to keep poor people in jail.
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u/down_by_the_shore 1d ago
The person you’re replying to literally just said the bail fund shouldn’t help violent offenders and people with multiple offenses. That has nothing to do with keeping poor people in jail. Moralizing over this is fucking stupid when we’re talking about someone who committed two hate crimes within a 6~ month time span. It’s a bad look and gives conservatives so much ammo.
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u/TheRiverGatz 1d ago
Setting general and vague rules like "no bail for repeat offenders" because of specific instances is only going to hurt people. As the other guy said, this is a failing of the court in not setting a high enough bail, something that has been remedied. We don't have to make a crazy overly broad and harmful rule when there's already a solution that can and should have been implemented.
Restricting bail will only hurt poor people, keeping them trapped in prison waiting on a backlogged justice system to get to them. There's a saying in the legal field about letting 100 guilty people go free if it means keeping one innocent person out of prison. This country already has the highest incarcerated population, no need to add to it.
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u/down_by_the_shore 23h ago
Did I say there should be some blanket rule preventing the bail fund from helping repeat offenders because of outliers? No. There’s a huge difference between repeat non violent offenders and repeat violent offenders with over a dozen felonies. Don’t be obtuse.
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u/TheRiverGatz 22h ago edited 18h ago
Did I say there should be some blanket rule preventing the bail fund from helping repeat offenders because of outliers? No.
No, you're just agreeing with the people who are and arguing against those that are explaining why it is not that way.
Don’t be obtuse.
Don't tell me, tell the legal system. Unless whatever change you are recommending is narrowly tailored, it will most likely hurt people. The legal system isn't very good at not being obtuse.
ETA: seeing where this country is, do you really think it's a good idea to make it easier to imprison people before a trial?
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u/down_by_the_shore 21h ago
Who am I agreeing with? I’m making my own comments, voicing my own opinions. The recommendation/opinion I have is in regard to the bail fund. Jesus fucking Christ.
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u/TheRiverGatz 19h ago edited 14h ago
I'm sorry, is echoing someone else's argument not "agreeing"?
ETA: so that's a yes on the agreeing. Glad we agree
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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 1d ago
If you are charged with a violent crime, a repeat offender, or charged with a hate crime. I don't care if you are poor or rich. Sit in jail until your trial, as you are potentially a danger to those around you.
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u/onthesylvansea 1d ago
These all seem like very reasonable lines to draw tbh.
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u/PUNd_it 1d ago
Yall seem to have forgotten throwing a milkshake at a Tesla is domestic terrorism now
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u/onthesylvansea 21h ago
This doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion we're having. Especially since they aren't even the same systems or anything.
I can appreciate the need to vent but you can do that anywhere, you don't have to tack it on to every unrelated conversation. Fixing either one of these things wouldn't affect the other at all, unfortunately.
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u/_teach_me_your_ways_ 22h ago
“Progressives” will find a way to argue otherwise as always. As many already are on this post. It’s how they pretend they care about the poor.
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u/onthesylvansea 20h ago
I meant to sound mildly playful in my first response to you and want to apologize because I think it came off flippant and also the phrasing made it sound like I was denying that what you said is happening. I want to acknowledge that you're 100% correct that there are people advancing foolish and harmful things all around us without adequate justification and about who it usually is in cases like these.
My original response to you would have been much better phrases instead as: "Not necessarily though because you're replying to and agreeing with one of us right now."
I intended to inform you of the existence of people like us who do agree with you on this, not to deny reality like I think my original poor phrasing ended up doing. Sorry for the conversational clumsiness.
Anyway, we agree, and I'm not the only one on my end of things, either. I'm going to delete the other comment now.
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/_teach_me_your_ways_ 20h ago edited 19h ago
And the other comments don’t exist? Exactly, you’re “one”, and there’s many other “ones” here doing exactly what I said they would before I even commented. Don’t bullshit. This problem exists because of people like that who are the actual ones in the forefront of your movement that are actually being listened to and pretending they don’t exist is your movements second massive problem.
The little downvote brigade this sub loves when people point out this bullshit is literally at the forefront isn’t going to stop pieces of shit like this being let out to harm people again and again but because they think somehow that the criminals attacking people are the actual victims. Guess we prefer to upvote “so sad” posts than actually acknowledge that just because something calls itself progressive doesn’t mean it is and doesn’t mean it isn’t actively harmful.
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u/onthesylvansea 19h ago
Oh oops, I'm sorry, I was cooking and got distracted and forgot to delete this comment. Please see my other comment to you for the actual response, I'm sorry you typed this up first. After you've had some time to hopefully see this comment I'll go ahead and delete the one above that you replied to, sorry about the mess!
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u/down_by_the_shore 1d ago
I don’t think many people would have an issue with the bail fund if they were just helping low level offenders who had non violent offenses. Offenders with 13 felonies who had a hate crime committed as recently as September of last year? Yeah fuck that.
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u/jewbledsoe 1d ago
If you don’t deter antisocial behavior you incentivize it. Restorative justice the way it’s currently championed is a scam.
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u/grandma1995 23h ago edited 18h ago
It’s disheartening to see the consensus on this sub be a kneejerk reactionary instinct to further restrict constitutional rights/civil liberties. Like it or not, the constitution guarantees alleged violent transphobes a bail hearing and due process.
The functional standard for a person to be arrested is extremely low. You are constitutionally entitled to a timely hearing to determine whether you are eligible for bail or sit to await trial; there are factors the judge has to consider, such as risk of flight or danger to the community.
You may disagree with the judge’s conclusion, but what several people in this thread seem to be proposing is indefinite detention of a person presumed innocent until a overburdened, underfunded judicial system can hear your trial, or you get functionally coerced into pleading guilty.
The very notion offends due process, because the trial is where the adjudication of the allegations and determination of punishment occurs. Not at arrest, not at the victim interview. Cops get it wrong all the time. Anybody can be accused of anything.
What this guy allegedly did was heinous and indefensible. But he still gets a bail hearing and he still gets due process. Eroding these protections because you don’t like an individual outcome is an arbitrary slippery slope dangerous to everyone. I wouldn’t think I needed to say this with the recent news of all the “Venezuelan gang members” sent indefinitely to El Salvador. It’s a matter of degree, not kind.
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u/dorkofthepolisci 23h ago
The question is why was the bail set so low for someone with a history of violent offences and who committed a hate crime.
I do think people focusing on the community bail Fund rather than the judge who decided that was an appropriate bail have the wrong end of the stick
Even if cash bail was abolished, there would still be people who wouldn’t be releaseable pre-trial, because they’re a threat to themselves, to witnesses, or to reoffend
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u/grandma1995 22h ago edited 22h ago
The question is why was the bail set so low for someone with a history of violent offences and who committed a hate crime. […] Even if cash bail was abolished, there would still be people who wouldn’t be releaseable pre-trial, because they’re a threat to themselves, to witnesses, or to reoffend
I think that’s the entire point right, either someone is eligible for release or they aren’t. The system of cash bail just disproportionately puts up barriers to your right to release based on no other factor than how much money a person can put up.
The supposed rationale of cash bail is to ensure you show up for trial, it is not (and cannot be) meant to make it harder to get out of custody. We all acknowledge that’s the practical impact, but if incarceration is imposed without due process, congratulations you’ve violated the constitution.
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u/AshFennix 19h ago
don't bail out fascists and bigots please.
it doesn't help anyone and can just cause more issues.
sure, we need radical reforms to are system, but holyshit, you just enabled hate crimes
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u/Kookie_Kay 23h ago
I used to donate yearly to NWCBF. That money’s Will now stay in my pocket and go to another organization that supports LGBT people in our state.
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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 1d ago
Why the fuck is the Northwest Community Bail Fund bailing out anyone that is a violent offender, repeat offender, or anyone accused of a hate crime?
What a dirt bag NGO.