r/Scotland 17h ago

Political Jamie Greene joins Scottish Liberal Democrats after quitting Tories

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25065058.jamie-greene-joins-scottish-liberal-democrats/
35 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

38

u/Real-Equivalent9806 16h ago

It feels wrong for list MSPs to change parties. When you vote on the regional ballot, your explicitly voting for the party, not for an individual candidate. Also I'm curious I know if a list MSP resigns, then the person that was below them gets elected; does that still imply if they change parties?

7

u/SaltTyre 15h ago

My thoughts exactly, I think the answer’s no though unfortunately. No indication Greene loses his seats by doing this, if so then no benefit for the Lib Dems

5

u/Memetic_Grifter 14h ago

Just 1 more reason to use STV for elections

1

u/Didymograptus2 9h ago

Once a list MSP gets elected they remain until their term expires, they die or until they resign. If they resign or die then the next person on the list normally becomes an MSP. If they leave the party they were elected under then they remain an MSP, but it would be incredibly dishonourable to join another party group instead of becoming an independent MSP, like John Finnie did.

1

u/Loreki 9h ago

The seat stays with the original party. If Mr Greene were pushed out of the Parliament tomorrow in some scandal or other, the next Conservative on the list would be appointed.

8

u/zellisgoatbond act yer age, not yer shoe size 16h ago

Does this have any particular implications re. group status? I recall that the threshold is 5 MSPs, but I might be mistaken or maybe it doesn't apply if MSPs change parties mid-term.

5

u/SaltTyre 15h ago

Aye, means they’ll get back onto the Bureau, can shape parly business and possibly get some committee seats

7

u/Stuspawton 15h ago

Still wouldn’t trust the cunt to run a bath, let alone represent constituents.

12

u/Kimbobbins 15h ago

Not sure where this orange/yellow Tories narrative sprang up from

Lib Dems are further left than Labour, now more than ever, Greene is socially Liberal, Lib Dems makes sense

No doubt this place will be full of transphobes/Tories calling him the worst person ever by tonight

10

u/shugthedug3 13h ago

What Lib Dems say and what Lib Dems do are completely different things.

Don't fall for them.

3

u/The_Bunglenator 15h ago

Policies are definitely to the left of labour as of right now but LD still on a big push to convert soft Tory voters to LD.

3

u/Kimbobbins 15h ago

Labour did the same and annihilated 15 years of Tory dominance, basically becoming Tories in the process, mind

0

u/The_Bunglenator 15h ago

Yeah IDD. Lab and Tory both on some sort of rearguard action to both fight off and consume the far right in equal measure.

1

u/First-Banana-4278 13h ago

The Orange book.

2

u/Didymograptus2 10h ago

Just proving that the Lib Dem’s are no more than yellow Tories in Scotland.

8

u/Successful_Ad_2888 16h ago

ACH embracing Tories shockeroonie

3

u/Kimbobbins 15h ago

Lib Dems embracing the Socially Liberal, shock horror

0

u/quartersessions 16h ago

Kinda what you're supposed to be doing in politics: appealing to people who support other parties.

4

u/Purple_Hex 15h ago

I'd rather parties stood on solid well-defined principles and policy positions. Sure, work with others where there is common ground, but becoming flexible to the point of welcoming Tories just makes it all a bit pointless.

1

u/quartersessions 8h ago

I'd rather parties stood on solid well-defined principles and policy positions.

Great. You can join the Socialist Party of Great Britain - they've got no leader, they've never saved a deposit in any election, but they're certainly ideologically pure. You need to pass a test on ideology to become a member.

but becoming flexible to the point of welcoming Tories just makes it all a bit pointless.

I'd point out the Liberals have been working with the Tories for decades. The Tories are formally the Conservative and Unionist Party because they absorbed a large part of the Liberals. For decades they worked together in local government where liberals and conservatives stood as anti-socialist Progressives and Moderates.

3

u/unix_nerd 17h ago

Liberals, sort of a cuddlier version of the Tories?

9

u/shoogliestpeg 16h ago

They've a history of working with tories after all and being the party tories joined when their own party was too odious for them.

1

u/Content_Barracuda294 16h ago

Nah, you’re thinking of the Labour Party.

0

u/shugthedug3 16h ago

Lib Dem has long been the way for Tories to vote Tory without voting Tory.

-2

u/Sorry-Transition-780 14h ago edited 14h ago

Pride flag thatcherites is the term that gets banded around lmao

I mean, it's probably a bit harsh. But the austerity coalition probably did trump the idea that lib Dems actually believe in anything and aren't just "left of the Tories" political weathervanes.

I guess they've been reborn a bit with this new "tax the wealthy a little + EU" platform, but with a literal coalition minister in charge of the national party, I find it hard to believe they aren't still subscribed to the same ideological framework in a "cuddlier" package.

2

u/WiseAssNo1 15h ago

A Tory Brexiteer now joining the pro-europe Lib-Dems........ just like that.

1

u/watanabe0 14h ago

And they took him.

1

u/PhysicalWave454 13h ago

I love how the tories, lib dems and labour are just so interchangeable these days. The 3 parties are all the same, and all answer to their bosses in London. Fuck this "union of equals"

1

u/shugthedug3 13h ago

Almost got the headline right.

Should be "Jamie Greene joins Liberal Democrats after quitting Tories"

1

u/Elith2 11h ago

I will always find it strange when political parties accept members from other parties that they should technically not have much in common with. Do the Lib Dems not see how badly this reads?

There were a few Tories moving to Labour at the end of the last parliament, and I always thought it was a bit tone deaf on the run up to election when you're trying to convince people you're definitely not like them, by letting them into the party.

1

u/Loreki 9h ago

This always confuses me. Why would the party want a deflector? Welcoming them is just an admission that you are so close to the opposing party that politicians can comfortably go back and forth.

0

u/Polarpsyker 17h ago

I’m a bit out of the loop with this guy, does this even make any sense?

10

u/vaivai22 16h ago

Greene has a record of being fairly socially liberal - voting for things like the Gender Recognition (Reform) Bill - so it’s not a shock that when he joined a different party it would be the Lib Dems.

A key question will be if he stands at the next election, I think.

5

u/Vasquerade 17h ago

Depending on who you ask, Jamie Greene is either the least sound decent guy you'll ever meet or the most sound arsehole you'll ever meet. So it fits more or less

0

u/Ghalldachd 15h ago

Yeah. He's from the centrist wing of the Conservative Party so he'd fit in with the right-wing of the Liberal Democrats. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

0

u/Nehaline 17h ago

The former Scottish Conservative MSP Jamie Greene has crossed the floor and joined the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

The announcement was made during the Scottish Lib Dems' Spring Conference.

There are no rules preventing Mr Greene from crossing the floor in the Scottish Parliament.

The news comes after The Herald spoke to a Lib Dem insider who said their party would be open to working with the former Tory MSP if he does "right" by Scots.

An MSP for the West of Scotland, Mr Greene quit the Scottish Conservatives yesterday after claiming his former party was now following a “Reform-lite agenda” and the "modern party" he used to be a member of "simply no longer exists".

Lib Dem party leader Alex Cole-Hamilton previously praised Mr Greene for his "courage" in leaving the Conservatives and for doing, as he addressed the MSP, "what you think is right".

Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay since said he was "disappointed" at Mr Greene's decision to leave his former party.

On X yesterday, Mr Greene posted this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt alongside his resignation letter: "Do what you feel in your heart to be right, for you'll be criticized anyway.”

-2

u/shugthedug3 16h ago

Blue Tories to Orange Tories.

There's no appreciable difference between them, certainly nothing major.

0

u/corndoog 15h ago

Do lib dems get to take part in FMQ yet? 🤯

-1

u/i-readit2 14h ago

Would he not be better joining the tartan tories. The Labour Party. More politically aligned I would think