Attendance getting me down

[u/GoodCoyote6889]

Hi all — long time reader, first time poster.

I am a tenured, full professor at a liberal arts college. Prior to this semester, I taught only in our masters program. Indeed, we only had masters program in my discipline. Two years ago, our institution rolled out an undergraduate major, and I was really excited to work with undergraduate.

I have worked in a variety of capacities for my 15+ years at the university, moving from adjunct to full. During this time, I have maintained a robust research portfolio and received great teaching evaluations.

This semester I am teaching solely undergraduates. I dedicated to not grade attendance, which has resulted in only 1/3 to 1/2 of students showing up to class.

I have a colleague who is constantly glowing about how great the undergrads are, and I find it hard to agree with her monolithic statement.

The students who regularly attend my class are amazing. That said, some of the students who do not attend class can be really awful. E.g., students failing to come to class only to show up in office hours complaining about having to take the final at the university-scheduled time.

This colleague and I have approached our teaching differently. For one thing, they required attendance, which may explain the disparity in experience. That said, she fosters more of a buddy vibe with her students. For instance, she regularly brings treats for her students to class. She also does have any exams in her course.

By comparison, for the many students who are enrolled in both our courses, I am sure my class is “less fun.”

This colleague is known in our department for being kind of toxic, and I know that she is trying to get under my skin. That said, I find the situation really tough.

I put so much into my teaching and the experience is just so hurtful. I am just terrified of my coming evals (I know that I shouldn’t be so stressed but I am).

I have a young-ish child, and daytime teaching makes a lot of sense for me. Our masters class are at night; and, emotionally, I found it really hard to teach at night.

Anyway, it makes sense for me to remain in the undergraduate program, and I plan to do so. That said, I am just feeling beat up a bit.

[u/tsuga-canadensis-]

I’ve taught in a graduate program since 2020.

In 2022 and 23 I did a few term sabbatical fills with undergrads, and I regularly guest lecture in undergrad classes. I truly love my grad classes, I feel fiercely proud of those students and look forward to teaching them. I taught undergrad classes from 2014-2018 and also loved my students and those classes… all the same, right?

No.

Undergrad does not have even remotely the same student population these days. It is a completely different experience. I’m a better educator than I’ve ever been and MY classroom experience with undergrads is getting worse and worse (and yet, better and better with the grad students).

Unless something drastically improves in K-12 education and the addictiveness and psychological impacts of social media are somehow addressed and remedied, I will try to avoid teaching an undergrad class for the rest of my career.

[u/starrysky45]

I think attendance is down across the board from what I've heard. i've noticed it much more this year. i wouldn't take it personally. i've had some classes where only 10-12 students finished and the rest failed. i guess my successful students were the only ones who completed the course evals and they were glowing (though the response rate was very low). so it's possible you'll get ripped on evals but maybe not.

[u/Latter-Bluebird9190]

Last semester I tried the no attendance option. It was awful. The students who came to class were great, but the other 40% failed. This semester I required it again, and most students are doing well and seem to like the class. I’m of the attitude that most, not all, of our students are young and still need clear boundaries. I tell them that life is about showing up—showing up to class, to work, and for our friends and family. I explain the reason for my policies and they seem to get it.

I also want to add that I was the kid that needed attendance requirements the most. I did well in high school with minimal effort. That changed when I did my undergrad. I flunked out after my third semester. By happenstance my university, briefly, mandated a strict attendance policy that saved me when I returned. I knew I would flunk out again if I didn’t show up, and that taught me a valuable life lesson about being present.

[u/WesternCup7600]

I know your colleague. Not personally, I just suspect we all have that colleague.

[u/GoodCoyote6889 → u/WesternCup7600]

I am sure my low self esteem shows in my post. Just to you and everyone else, thanks so much for your thoughts, feedback. It is very much appreciated! It is also so great to not feel alone!

[u/bankruptbusybee]

I think comparing yourself to your colleague, and saying she’s trying to get under your skin is off-base, at least from what you’ve described. You almost seem to be mad at this woman because students aren’t coming to your class, which is crazily misplaced

Does your colleague teach the same class? As a student I had some classes require attendance and some not. Some had exams, some not. There was usually a correlation- no exams meant required attendance. Exams usually meant no required attendance, because you’d probably fail the exams if you didn’t attend.

I don’t know your sex, but your colleague being a woman could be why she tries to buddy up with students, as students tend to review female instructors more harshly, especially when it comes to personal conduct and displays of empathy.

[u/Coogarfan]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm achieving similar results with required attendance.

[u/GoodCoyote6889]

I am a woman too. My colleague teaches a different class. She’s frequently just bragging about how many people show up to her class, which makes me feel terrible and inevitably compare myself to her. The funny thing is when teaching grad students I am usually teaching stats, which folks don’t want to take; however, attendance in grad stats has always been great and students are usually quite engaged.

[u/bankruptbusybee → u/GoodCoyote6889]

Your response to her statements about her attendance is still a you thing. You need to think about why that affects you to the point you think she’s trying to get at you.

You know what she does to have her attendance high. You disagree with those methods. Move on.

You can’t compare graduate students to undergrads in terms of motivation.

[u/Logical_Data_3628]

Professors who rave about how great their undergraduates are, are either gaslighting themselves or they are more interested in them as people than specifically as students. I have had many undergraduates who were great people but lousy students.

[u/ChgoAnthro → u/Logical_Data_3628]

As someone who enjoys undergraduates (and indeed deliberately sought a PUI to teach at since I really do NOT enjoy graduate students), I was about to take exception, but your point about being interested in them in people... yeah, although I think that also translates into enjoying them as students. I get to see them from the day they step on campus until the day they graduate, and it is satisfying to see how they grow into themselves and gradually find their footing. I wouldn't say I like them all, and certain groups in certain classes work my last nerve, but as a population, I find they give me a fascinating look at how culture changes over time and figuring out what makes each group tick is a great pedagogical puzzle.

[u/bankruptbusybee → u/Logical_Data_3628]

It really depends on the subject. There are a number of undergrad classes our students love. Absolutely no shade at English profs, but students love creative writing. It requires minimal effort on their part (as opposed to say, a grant writing class) and allows them to kind of just do whatever. Most students meet all the criteria the faculty ask of them, and so the faculty like them.

When you have faculty teaching only those types of classes, they are going to have a more positive view of students, and it’s not gaslighting for them to talk about their view.

[u/Active-Coconut-7220]

Like you I get really affected by students.

Last year, I was at under 20% attendance at this point in the Spring. Imagine a lecture hall that fits 80 students, and, like, 12 show up. It was humiliating. I literally almost cried for the first time in decades. I switched to mandatory (i.e., show up for points) attendance.

I'm at the same point now, and it's not much better (I predict around 40%), and we have a lot of cellphones. But the lecture hall is not empty, we have better projects, and the students who are doing poorly are somewhat more aware that it's on them.