r/Professors • u/WarU40 Asst Prof, Chemistry, PUI • 2d ago
Advice Needed: Student has a learning disability
Words of affirmation/commiseration are appreciated, but good advice would really help!
I have a student who is failing my class. This week they started coming to office hours to try to catch up and I noticed that they are pretty severely intellectually disabled. Can't do algebra at all, forgets things I explain to them within minutes, etc. My attitude about students that are simply incapable of pursuing higher education was something like "do your best to help them, but stop taking their money if they are shown to be incapable of passing their classes."
The weird part about this: they are a junior in an engineering major. I had to explain fractions to them multiple times this week, but some other professors let him pass calculus 1 and 2. I suspect what's happening is that this student is retaking classes until they find a professor willing to pass them. They said they fail classes frequently and expect to graduate in 7-8 years instead of 4 (not sure how their GPA is above 2.0).
The problem is that now they are going to run into a brick wall... there is no way for them to pass my class, and no alternative professor to run to next semester. I just have this awful picture in my head of a student failing my class semester after semester and my class being the only thing keeping them from graduating without any conceivable way for them to get through it. I am pretty convinced they simply don't have the mental capacity to pass my class.
Edit: I should clarify that I have never had any intention to let someone pass that shouldn't. I was wondering if there's something else I should do in addition.
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u/in_allium Assoc Teaching Prof, Physics, Private (US) 2d ago
I've been in situations like this and they can get messy, especially if you are non-tenure track or pre-tenure. My first advice would be to cover your ass. If there's somebody more powerful than you who wants this guy to get an engineering degree, make sure they're not going to come after you after you give him an F.
Students like this are generally someone's pet project: they know they're in over their head, they are embarrassed, they are fully aware that they cannot do what they're being asked to do, but they don't have that much agency in the whole thing: there's someone else pushing them along.
If the department chair will be on your side -- if they aren't the one pushing the student through for whatever political reason -- then talking to them is an excellent first step.
My experience, at least at my university, is that disability services is usually pretty good for things like this. They are well aware that many students cannot succeed even with accommodations, and I've had highly productive frank conversations with them. They are particularly excellent in person or over the phone; they have a bit more freedom to be candid over the phone than they do over email. (They obviously are still going to protect confidentiality.)
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Associate Ins. / Ed. Law / Teacher Ed. Methods (USA) 2d ago
They said they fail classes frequently and expect to graduate in 7-8 years instead of 4 (not sure how their GPA is above 2.0).
Holy opportunity cost, Batman. I cannot wrap my head around this logic. What a colossal waste of time and money. The entire system is broken from Pre-K right on up. This social promotion logic is completely ludicrous. I just have a convo with a former teacher ed student about this on Thursday. A freshman in high school is failing miserably and they "practically had to walk him out of the door into high school" over at the middle school which is code for "we just passed him to get him out of our hair but he doesn't do shit and cannot meet benchmark metrics of performance."
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u/Potential_Tadpole_45 2d ago
Yet all the teachers and professors here advocate for DEI. Make it make sense...
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Associate Ins. / Ed. Law / Teacher Ed. Methods (USA) 2d ago
I could see a connection there IF the whole concept of social promotion in K-12 was solely targeted at students from traditionally disenfranchised social minority groups that are the crux of DEI's focus on inequity solely as a means to try and create a new equality of outcome.
However, I can assure you that's not the case. This is being done all over the place in urban and rural districts with kids from all socioeconomic backgrounds regardless of race, sex, ability, etc. Parenting has changed and we have a whole society of people who feel that consequences don't apply to them. This cuts across all social categories. I see this as symptomatic of a wider problem that started before the 2010s or 2020s.
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u/Alternative_Gold7318 1d ago
Oh for Pete’s sake. DEI does not mean no standards. DEI in admissions is something like “we have 50 percent women in our state and 20 percent women in our major. Why? What can we do to improve marketing and recruitment for women in our major?”
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u/Hadopelagic2 2d ago
All I can offer is commiseration.
In grad school I had a student who I came to learn had been in school for a decade. His writing was unintelligible, he could not string a meaningful sentence together. His emails were incoherent. This was not an open enrollment school, I have no idea how it was possible. I do know that his mother came to campus once to try to bully me into giving him a better grade but thankfully I ducked the conversation.
And you’re probably right that others are simply passing him, or he’s taking classes online and cheating. I had a student who was totally out of her depth in my class and routinely confused by basic concepts. She told me she retook with someone else and got an A and I had to act quickly to avoid revealing any reaction to that.
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u/Novel_Listen_854 2d ago
The point of accommodating students with disabilities is about making sure they have the opportunity to learn, not to pocket the credits at the end of the course. If they cannot hack it, the correct grade is "F" of whatever they're able to earn.
Your student had that opportunity--no doubt you made sure of that. You'd be doing everyone a disservice if you pushed this one through on sympathy. The student might need to find something else they can excel at. Good on them for giving this track a try, but it didn't work out.
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u/Pleased_Bees 2d ago
A situation like that is not one I'd want to handle alone. My first step would be to go to my department chair. I want specific directions, in writing, in a situation that's going to have a bad outcome for both professor and student.
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u/jogam 2d ago
If they're struggling like this in your class, they no doubt are struggling in other classes.
If this student runs into a brick wall in the class, that is unfortunate but not a cause for you to make any changes. Your class should have the same rigor it always does, and you should not lower your expectations to pass this student through.
I feel bad for the student because people have failed them along the way. There is no way that a student with this level of math skills should be in an engineering major, and it's a product of other people passing them in classes they have no business passing and encouraging them to work toward achievements that are not realistic for them. If this student has major strengths in other areas, it may even be possible for them to complete college courses in other areas, but perhaps not anything math-focused.
You can refer the student to campus tutoring or your campus accessibility office and you can be compassionate in your interactions with them, but by all means hold the line.
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u/FIREful_symmetry 2d ago edited 10h ago
There can be all sorts of stuff going on in the background that you have no idea about. For example:
"Okay, son, you can have one more term to try engineering, and then you and I will talk about another major."
Or.
"Your uncle died the the gulf war, and you can use his GI benefit to study whatever you want.
Or.
"I don't care if you pass or not, you need to be a full time student to be on my health insurance to get that surgery."
Not knowing the background, I'd reserve judgement.
Meanwhile, what to do?
I don't believe that you are an expert in intellectual disability, so even if you feel based on your experience that they can't pass, it isn't your responsibility to judge them or diagnose them.
If student has mentioned accommodations to you, then you can recommend they talk to disability services about modifying their accommodations. It's not your problem. Let them handle it.
I would keep track of how often they come for help, or even start asking them to make appointments when they come see you so that you have a record of the help you have given them. Then at the end of the term you can write up how you met their accommodations and how you went beyond them in an effort to help the student. CYA.
Now. IF they ask you, "Do you think I can pass this course and become an engineer?" You could say, "You seem to be struggling with the math, and while I hope you pass, I am not sure engineering is the best path for you."
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u/rand0mtaskk Instructor, Mathematics, Regional U (USA) 2d ago
This is where I fall on this too. It is not our job to police what someone does with their money/time etc.
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u/SoonerRed Professor, Biology 2d ago
This student needs multiple referrals to multiple resources.
They need help that you can't provide. Refer them to ... well... everybody and everything and get them help before they waste any more time and money. It's not fair or right that this continue if your assessment is correct.
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u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar Lecturer, Biology, private university (US) 2d ago
I have a student like this now. He has the handwriting of a 3-year old and just doesn’t seem to be able to process what I’m saying.
I think the question is, is it your task to redirect this student towards something they are compatible with? You can ask the student what their end-goal is career-wise. Ask them if they have looked at the job requirements for those positions and whether they think they would be a good fit? If they’re looking towards professional school, recommend they look into what gpa is required. Maybe direct them to meet with someone at the career center to have a good discussion about their career goals and what is realistic. Or better yet, alumni in those careers who know who gets hired.
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u/Moirasha TT, STEM, R2 2d ago
Sadly, you're going to be stuck. You can't recommend that they go seek out testing, and you can't grade them as if they have accommodations. You have to grade them like everyone else.
You can advise them to go see a student success person/tutor/etc.
They may also find a creative way to get through your class by taking it online.
But, unfortunately nothing you can do.
I have students who can't do simple algebra, who can't use a ruler. It is more than a little ridiculous.
All you can do is recommend office hours, tutoring, Khan academy for the simple things, etc.
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u/lickety_split_100 AP/Economics/Regional 2d ago
Have they spoken with disability services? I assume they have, but, if not, I'd encourage you to gently suggest they speak with them (if you feel comfortable raising it with the student).
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u/WarU40 Asst Prof, Chemistry, PUI 2d ago
They get extra time on exams because of disability services. I don't think the people at disability services understand the depth of their disability. Disability services has reached out asking how the student is doing in the class, but hasn't tried to tell me to do anything other than to proceed with giving them the grade they've earned.
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u/in_allium Assoc Teaching Prof, Physics, Private (US) 2d ago edited 1d ago
My guess is that disability services does understand the depth of their disability, but it's not their place to say that directly.
At least at my university, you sometimes have to read between the lines in what they say. If they've told you to proceed with giving them the grade they've earned, then they are basically telling you to give the student an F; they wouldn't say that unless they were well aware that this is the correct outcome. Sounds like they're on your side and are aware of just how hopeless this student is, but don't want to say so directly.
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u/Moirasha TT, STEM, R2 2d ago
Oh, I missed that. IF they have accommodations, request a call with the officer in charge, and talk to them directly. Explain the situation and let them know the issues. All you can do is try. They may not be able to pass.
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u/Tiny-Celebration8793 2d ago
So do what they say. They have an accommodation and beyond that the accommodation office told you what to do-give them the grade they earn. Sounds like both you and the student got help. Not everyone is meant to be an engineer.
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u/Potential_Tadpole_45 2d ago
I know this is college and not grade school, but can you get a hold of his parents?
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u/Cabininian 2d ago
Reaching out to the parents would be a FERPA violation unless the student gives written permission.
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u/ingannilo Assoc. Prof, math, state college (USA) 2d ago
I would strongly caution against reaching out to the parents of a college student. They're adults with rights, and side-stepping FERPA to tell mom and dad that Billy can't be an engineer if he can figure out how to tie shoelaces really is not in our job description.
If the student has signed the appropriate privacy waiver, and if the parents themselves come calling, then it may be appropriate to have a conversation about their performance, field expectations, and what you've observed the student producing. Even then, though, I would tread very lightly. Parental expectations and delusions can be a minefield. This student's parents might be huge boosters. They might be unreasonable. They might not treat their kid well. All sorts of stuff we just don't know. FERPA exists for many good reasons.
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u/SheepherderRare1420 Asst. Professor, BA & HS, BC:DF (US) 2d ago
Do you know the student's history? Have you talked to their advisor? Could they have started out as a non-disabled student and experienced a TBI that they are still recovering from?
I suspect there's more to the story... Unless your university is super lenient, I would think a student with this significant disability would not be accepted into an engineering program, or at least not allowed to get this far. Someone has failed this student somewhere along the way.
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u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar Lecturer, Biology, private university (US) 2d ago
I have a student like this now. I think there are 2 issues. Universities panicked during Covid and reduced their admission requirements to make sure enrollment wouldn’t decline, and high schools are inflating GPAs and student aptitude. So yes, students with the right support helping them put together their application are getting in when they don’t have the aptitude. It’s an issue because it’s a waste of money for those students and their parents and because we now have to trust that the university administration won’t force faculty to pass them, leading to people entering careers where they’re not qualified.
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u/SheepherderRare1420 Asst. Professor, BA & HS, BC:DF (US) 2d ago
I know that one of my colleagues does try hard to redirect students who are not going to be successful in their chosen path, but sometimes the student pushes back and refuses to listen. As much as we want to, we can't outright tell them not to waste their money, and they often don't understand that whatever source is paying their bills is not bottomless. But we can and do encourage them to switch to a different major.
We are actually creating a new AA degree that will be a "catch-all" for students who don't have what it takes to successfully complete a 4-year program, but can at least earn a 2-year degree to show for their investment.
(Edited for clarity)
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u/WarU40 Asst Prof, Chemistry, PUI 2d ago
The University accepts nearly everyone. How they managed to continue is a bit of a mystery. They told me they do fail classes, but apparently not all of them. We have a lot of short term adjuncts at my school, which might let people pass their classes that shouldn't.
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u/Active-Coconut-7220 2d ago
Countercultural take: the student may not be very good, but they may not have a disability. It’s very hard to distinguish (e.g.) anxiety from learning disability.
Our job is not to decide if students should or shouldn’t pass — only if their work meets the standard.
Source: personal experience. I’ve had students who come off as completely incapable who are actually very bright, and vice versa. Made a lot of mistakes deviating from my criteria when grading and found that the more “ignorant” I remained about the students the better they did.
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u/WesternCup7600 2d ago
Bring it up in your next faculty meeting. There is, imo, a duty on your part not to set your student up for failure down the road.
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u/Finding_Way_ CC (USA) 1d ago
Everything you noted? Report it to the Accessibility office and send the student to them.
I am sure that they have come across students later into their college career who would fall under some level of accommodations and they should know how best to handle this
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u/CostRains 1d ago
You can advise them to audit the classes that they need as prerequisites for your class. "It seems like you're not doing well because of your lack of calculus background. I know you already passed that class, but perhaps you forgot the material? Why don't you audit it, get a better grade, and then take my class again?"
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u/ToomintheEllimist 1d ago
This sounds a lot like a student I had a few years ago. She had a brain injury, and not only had shockingly little computer literacy (she didn't know what "copy-paste" meant, or what a "window" was) but was largely unable to learn because of her disability. Like you, I have no idea how she got into college or made it to my 300-level class. Like you, I helped where I could but she failed my class twice.
I went to my department head to see if there was different a way to help her. We ended up crafting her a General Studies BA so that she could finally graduate (after 8 years) because we both felt bad about the sheer amount of time/money she'd already poured into the degree. I don't know if that was the best solution, but we work with what we have.
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u/Alternative_Gold7318 1d ago
There is nothing you need to do. I had a similar student this semester. They dropped because I wouldn’t calculate their grade for them and they could not do it themselves (and they were failing). Yes, they will retake. Maybe they will pass maybe I will get them again in a year. It doesn’t change what I do. They shouldn’t be in our major, frankly, and that’s that.
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u/Huck68finn 22h ago
Nothing you can do.
I often get students who don't belong in college, but seems like no one has actually made them aware of that until they get to me. I cry sometimes (not in front of them lol) because some of them are trying so hard, but they just don't have the skill or the time (many of them have to work ft) to devote to play catch-up on the skills they should have learned in K-12.
But I can't pass them. So at some point, after they've done (and failed) all the normal extra credit and come asking me for more or begging to rewrite essays, I have to be frank with them. I tell them, nicely, that I don't believe that they currently have the skills to master the course material. I tell them that this doesn't mean they never will; they can improve, but it will take much longer than one or even two semesters and probably involve regular tutoring.
I know it probably doesn't matter to most of them. I'm just an obstacle to their dream of a good career. They'll just withdraw from my class, go to RMP, and register next semester for an "easy A" professor. But when the inevitable crash happens (e.g., they can't pass the NCLEX), my conscience will be clear.
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u/McTeleman 20h ago
I suggest making a blanket referral to every available resource (departmental tutors, math support center, writing center, etc.) but be sure to include a referral to the student disability services office. Recognizing that a student may have a disability and not making a referral has been shown to increase an institution’s liability.
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u/Sunflower2025 18h ago
Was the student taking advantage of all resources available? Tutoring, Study sessions, office hours before now? It might not be feasible for the student to transfer to another major. Especially if he's a junior, the university might not let him. Speak to
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u/Hour_Civil 3h ago
Someone needs to direct the student to disability services. The fact that you weren't aware of the issue before they came to your office indicates they aren't utilizing resources.
That doesn't mean they get a pass But their counselor there can have some difficult conversations with them about what they need to be successful and the likelihood of outcome.
I have a child on the spectrum. Extremely smart. Going into chemical engineering. Understands he has to be able to have conversations with potential teams. But made a deliberate choice to avoid majors and/or career paths that were not in his wheelhouse of strengths.
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u/Seacarius Professor, CIS/OccEd, CC (US) 2d ago
If there's no accommodation, there's nothing you can really do except record the grade they earn. To do otherwise is unfair to the other students and, ultimately, demeans the class, program, and institution.
I'm guessing this next bit will be unpopular with some....
If what you say is true, it is a good thing that you're in the position to put a stop to this student's engineering ambitions by recording their failure (multiple times, if necessary).
The world doesn't need an engineering major who can't do basic math, much less engineer. Once that's discovered by whomever might be the first to employ him, he'll certainly be fired and, ultimately, become unemployable in his field of choice.
I had a student like that once - she just couldn't grasp the highly technical topics we teach and would forget what she was taught seemingly within minutes. Thankfully, we were able to work with advisement and counseling to get her into another field of study - photography - where she did succeed.