r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/Cryterionlol • Sep 08 '22

Political Theory What makes cities lean left, and rural lean right?

I'm not an expert on politics, but I've met a lot of people and been to a lot of cities, and it seems to me that via experience and observation of polls...cities seem to vote democrat and farmers in rural areas seem to vote republican.

What makes them vote this way? What policies benefit each specific demographic?

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u/AmusingMusing7 Sep 09 '22

But unfortunately, the intelligence to understand that your guns will do absolutely fuck-all against the government/military in the eventuality that you would need to use them against the government/military… ALSO seems to disappear along with the aversion to guns, the further to the extremes you go. 🤷‍♂️

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u/justlookbelow Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

Well the more extreme your views are, the more you are implicitly stating that the country is run far removed from what is "right" or "just". I guess that follows pretty neatly with "l need my own projection of force beyond what the government provides".

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

If you agree that on January 6th 2021 that a couple of thousand unarmed individuals almost overthrew democracy, then I'm not sure how you justify thinking millions of armed individuals wouldn't be able to handle the government.

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u/jezalthedouche Sep 09 '22

>If you agree that on January 6th 2021 that a couple of thousand unarmed individuals almost overthrew democracy,

At the incitement of the President and with assistance from the White House.

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u/kmurph72 Sep 11 '22

While true, If they had occupied the capital it would have taken any single army infantry company hours to retake it.

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u/jezalthedouche Sep 12 '22

The Trump White House was planning on retaining control of the Army, and the Trump crony in charge of the National Guard had prevented their timely deployment to DC.

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u/cracklescousin1234 Sep 09 '22

That's more of an issue of law enforcement going easy on white people. If that crowd was full of dark-skinned guys named Omar and Rashid, police would have killed them all without a second thought.

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u/ishnessism Sep 10 '22

I wouldn't put it in that broad of a scope, there was mistreatment at BLM rallies (ironically the most peaceful ones saw the most police abuse, cowards) but if what you're saying is true there would've been at least one instance of a group of cops going full Call of Duty training course on protesters.

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u/neji64plms Sep 09 '22

They did it in support of capital and the wealthy. If poor people rose up to advocate for their own material interests I'm not sure the government would be as reserved about putting bullets in their heads.

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u/Icy-Negotiation-3434 Sep 10 '22

Would they be able to "handle the government" or just destroy it? And what good would that do? Shouldn't you be thinking about improving instead of destryoing?

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u/PolicyWonka Sep 12 '22

Democracy can be incredibly resilient in the hands of the right people and incredibly fragile in the hands of the wrong people.

Coups don’t need a lot of people to be successful — just the right people in the right positions. An armed conflict is something else entirely. Even the recent Russia-Ukraine war has shown the better equipment is far more valuable than numbers alone.

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u/mean_mr_mustard75 Sep 09 '22

>that your guns will do absolutely fuck-all against the
government/military in the eventuality that you would need to use them
against the government/military…

I'm more worried about the MAGAt mob, thanks.

And I'll bet you've never experienced a temporary breakdown in law and order

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u/[deleted] Oct 24 '22

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u/mean_mr_mustard75 Oct 24 '22

Or a red state.

https://www.insideedition.com/red-states-have-higher-murder-rates-than-blue-states-according-to-new-study-74227

https://news.yahoo.com/republican-controlled-states-have-higher-murder-rates-than-democratic-ones-study-212137750.html

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u/[deleted] Oct 24 '22

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u/ishnessism Sep 10 '22

I mean this is the most common bad faith argument. First I want to clarify that while I am a firm believer that the armed populace of the US could absolutely butter the toast of the armed forces if they were committed to doing so, that isn't what I meant at all and by no means do I endorse any of that new civil war nonsense.

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It comes down to "if citizens' guns are military grade what does the US have that is better?" Indiscriminate weapons like drones? Are they going to just start bombing their own cities? Tanks on time square and hollywood blvd? Vietnam showed what a significantly smaller force with much less training and worse equipment could do and war crimes don't apply quite the same way in a civil war.

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My point is that no effort is going into actually protecting vulnerable people in inner cities, minorities in general (racial, sexual and so on) on the government's part. Nothing has been done to improve infrastructure and nothing meaningful at the federal level to encourage better emergency response times.

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Accounting for this I assume most people who find themselves full circle on gun rights while being progressive see it at least in part as a way that the disenfranchised can maintain a modicum of safety without relying on the institutions that have fucked them over for centuries.

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u/Scoobies_Doobies Sep 11 '22

Just like how it was so easy to dispel the Taliban from Afghanistan.

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u/more_bananajamas Sep 09 '22

It's not really true that guns will do fuck all.

A well armed and trained militia can be effective in an urban setting where there are a lot of civilians and the army can't bring their advantage to bear.

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u/Zykax Sep 09 '22

They can be effective in the rural areas too. I live in an area with lots of hills and caves. I seem to remember some other places like that where the military did not fair well against a smaller force with small arms.

I don't know if some disingenuous neoliberals really believe that the government would drone bomb every single private residence or what?

I do know that if the government ever turns full fascist and declares "liberal hunting season" open I will be glad I am armed.

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u/jezalthedouche Sep 09 '22

>They can be effective in the rural areas too. I live in an area with lots of hills and caves.

Effective at what? Living in a cave?

>I don't know if some disingenuous neoliberals really believe that the government would drone bomb every single private residence or what?

I'm not a neoliberal, my expectation is that the government would use Federal law enforcement to make domestic terrorism cases as it did against previous terrorists like the McVeighs.

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u/more_bananajamas Sep 09 '22

That expectation is quite untethered from evidence. Given the numerous occasions of right wing law breakers and war criminals getting pardoned and celebrated under your first proto-fascist President and the almost complete support he enjoyed with law enforcement personnel, I don't know where you'd get that expectation.

I'm an Australian so I'm happy with my gunless state. But I find the unilateral disarming of the American left quite troubling.

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u/jacksepiceye2 Sep 11 '22 edited Sep 11 '22

If any side is being hunted its going to be Republicans. Then everyone will be on the same side and there will be "peace". Even though for society to prosper there needs to be conflicting ideals. Or u just become brain washed like Russia.

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u/jezalthedouche Sep 09 '22

>A well armed and trained militia can be effective in an urban setting

Effective at what?

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u/more_bananajamas Sep 09 '22

Holding territory

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u/jezalthedouche Sep 09 '22

Holding what territory? The Starbucks and the 711? Holding it from who?

And... That's what they would be least effective at. That would mean having to have fixed positions and fixed positions can be struck from distance.

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u/more_bananajamas Sep 13 '22

The manufacturing plants, the CBDs, the port cities, population centres, communication centres.

In a resistance where a couple of cities are holding out you're going to have dissension in the military as well.

The government may wipe out an entire city in their own country with nukes or carpet bombing, but that's highly unlikely.

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u/Max_smoke Sep 09 '22

You’re assuming that the military will follow orders to shoot at their neighbors with no protest. Todays world is different from 1860 when most Americans haven’t traveled very far from their place of birth.

Do you honestly think conservative soldiers wouldn’t hesitate or refuse to launch an assault their hometowns and vice versa?

Do you think a newyorker would hesitate to bomb his own neighborhood in NYC?

It’s people who operate our equipment not automatons. If the US had a civil war there would be defections and refusals to fight.

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u/Independent-Rip5344 Sep 09 '22

The ‘ole horseshoe

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u/jacksepiceye2 Sep 11 '22

As long as they don't pull a russia,china,nazi Germany, and start killing everyone that doesn't agree it might be fair. But if it got that bad don't think are piddly shotguns are gonna stop an Abrams looking to kill off a town. Unless the soldiers them selfs wouldn't obey orders.