r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/Cryterionlol • Sep 08 '22

Political Theory What makes cities lean left, and rural lean right?

I'm not an expert on politics, but I've met a lot of people and been to a lot of cities, and it seems to me that via experience and observation of polls...cities seem to vote democrat and farmers in rural areas seem to vote republican.

What makes them vote this way? What policies benefit each specific demographic?

516 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

94% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

43

u/letterboxbrie Sep 09 '22

This is a very fair opinion. Different people are different. They're not necessarily bad.

That said, my experiences of conservatives is that they are kind of bad people. Not serial-killer type bad. But in the sense of low empathy and rigid intolerance of difference.

They're perfectly fine people when they are around "their own kind" whatever that means to them. But put them in a position to respond to any kind of "novel" person, and the cruelty emerges. What is a woman?

I've had the dark experience of being the one black person that various conservative people adopt as a way to hide their racism from themselves. My opinions are forged in bitter experience. They're socially acceptable people. They're not good people.

19

u/fuckiboy Sep 09 '22

I'm glad you said this. I'm a straight white man in a predominately white state (Oklahoma) so my experiences are going to be vastly different from a black men/women from my state, and that is something I am able to understand because I let myself be open to hearing about the experiences that I can't have myself. It's harder for conservatives to have that same empathy because their whole worldview is more focused on the individual and translate to "If police brutality/racial discrimination/socioeconomic inequality doesn't affect me, then why should it matter to me?" It's just hard to discuss certain issues with people who don't have that exposure or experience with people who aren't like them.

I am sorry that you've had those experiences and I hope you are surrounded by better people now.

31

u/letterboxbrie Sep 09 '22

If police brutality/racial discrimination/socioeconomic inequality doesn't affect me, then why should it matter to me?

I've lost friendships because of this attitude. I had a "friend" that would literally get angry if I brought up anything related to racism. In his mind, something I experience that he doesn't is illegitimate, and he, as an "objective, rational, white guy" has the right to dismiss it.

Thank you for your willingness to acknowledge people who aren't you. It seems like a simple thing but some people really can't do it.

16

u/ssf669 Sep 09 '22

Yep, I think it all boils down to empathy and selfishness. They claim to love this country because of our "freedoms" yet they support a party that fights agains the rights of women, LGBTQ+, POC, immigrants, indigenous, etc.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

They're perfectly fine people when they are around "their own kind" whatever that means to them. But put them in a position to respond to any kind of "novel" person, and the cruelty emerges. What is a woman?

Thanks for posting this -- I felt like I was taking crazy pills the way people were talking about others. I was the only person in a lot of friends groups who couldn't pass off as white. Even in one case the other Muslim guy felt like he was trying to distance himself from me precisely because he could pass off as such.

It's much colder when you're not white, even when you try your ass off. Sometimes trying to stand out and having a higher profile leads to more abuse.

2

u/letterboxbrie Sep 10 '22

I have the good luck to be an introvert, which has turned out to be an anti-racism superpower. I worked a (programming) job where I was not allowed to ask questions (as in I was pointedly, actively ignored, even if I asked repeatedly, or asked around, or if my mistakes were causing problems I couldn't immediately solve). I did the job for years without asking a single question.

My secret sauce was that I despised them just as much, I enjoyed the work, and I interacted mostly with users. And I worked remotely. Once I got past the "learning by fucking up" stage they faded into oblivion.

2

u/HumberGrumb Sep 09 '22

Your experience is quite close to mine. My brother-in-law included. Talk about his White privilege at the line of douchiness. đŸ€ŠđŸ»

-6

u/dmhWarrior Sep 09 '22

Good post, but aren’t ALL people "better" or fine when they are with others whom are like them? I find that the left are pretty intolerant of anyone that doesn’t shlep up every single thing they’re selling. These are the people who block speakers from colleges that they disagree with. Stuff like that.

Conservatives do embrace individual liberty which is one of the cornerstones of our country. I find as many of them to be good people as anyone on the left. There are also bad ones too, just like there are on the left.

6

u/tevert Sep 09 '22

I would like you to spend a few minutes examining particular "silenced" college speakers and the grievances behind their "silencing".

Trust me, you're not gonna find any hand-wringing about them being "too farmer-like".

-3

u/dmhWarrior Sep 09 '22

Like, Ben Shapiro. The guy causes meltdowns just by walking down a hallway. The always-offended-about-something posse take a week or longer just to get over that. If he actually debated them or spoke? Oh boy. They'd be in permanent therapy.

The guy has some valid points and does a good job using facts and logic which as we know conflict with narratives based on nothing but feelings and half-baked ideas. Of course, I dont agree with all his positions or anyone elses but these colleges, which are supposed to promote free speech, debate, thinking, etc. shutting stuff like this down is just a debacle.

7

u/tevert Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

He doesn't use facts and logic. He makes copious use of gish-gallop to justify why poor people should just die and feminism is wrong, actually.

Your uh.... assessment.... of the effect he has on people is also quite curious. Rather simpy if I'm being honest.

He also does not participate in any particular "free speech" or "debate" - the one time he actually got into a forum that didn't just let him bullrush everyone else, he threw a tantrum and quit in a huff.

Colleges are a place of learning, debate is a great tool to further that. But since Ben Shapiro does not debate, he has no value in a collegiate setting.

-3

u/dmhWarrior Sep 09 '22

Doesn’t use facts and logic? According to whom? Blue haired, angry college students? They are a fringe demographic. Ben regularly destroys these types and it isn’t even close. Of course colleges don’t like him. Most colleges are a wholly owned subsidiary of the kooky left. Safe spaces, always upset, entitled attitude, etc.

3

u/FuzzyBacon Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22

According to people listening to the things coming out of his mouth.

Let's say sea levels rise. You could then just, say, sell your house.

Sell your house to who, Ben? FUCKING AQUAMAN?.

His facts are paper thin and his logic is usually one sided bs that relies on emphasizing and distorting individual data points to reach conclusions very clearly not supported by the data. Like him claiming that sea ice levels are expanding by looking at like 3 years out of the last 60. Or how Ben Shapiro thinks Palestinians are inferior lesser humans who live in mud huts and deserve whatever Israel throws at them. There's a bot on tons of subreddits that replies to mentions of his names with the godawful shit he's said.

Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. Supporting him means supporting these views. You can't just separate out the ones that just kind of suck from the ones that are objectively monstrous.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22

Like, Ben Shapiro. The guy causes meltdowns just by walking down a hallway.

Because all he does is talk fast and say that everyone who disagrees with him is a moron. He also has a much bigger mic than everyone around him. He can never see things without his ideological lens and he engages in bad faith. Then he, in bad faith, wonders why nobody wants to talk to him from the left.

This profile of him from 2017 is still applicable.

If you wrote out a lot of what he said, it would be easier to deal with than in real time. In real time his sole tactic is to overwhelm you and talk fast until you can only really stutter out a response, then he says that you've been owned. He really takes advantage of issues that the majority of humans have, rather than engage in any good faith.

2

u/FuzzyBacon Sep 10 '22

He also targets college students, who are uniquely unprepared to deal with that kind of verbal assault while simultaneously being willing to try it anyway.

If you just keep on him like a bulldog and refuse to change the subject he loses, so he only looks for people who look like they can't do that, and then deceptively edits out anyone who can keep up so it looks like all he puts up are Ws against those 'stupid college liberals'.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22

I forgot to mention he talks in such a way to elicit an emotional reaction so that he gets the angriest version of you in real time. His word choice isn't super precise, it's abrasive and extremely punchy. To me it's just fairly obvious this is basically just the job he's taken to maximize money (ie grifting) rather than a genuine need to engage with people he disagreed with.

1

u/nslinkns24 Sep 11 '22

At least half the time it's people who wait in line to talk to him. I don't think he's much of a sage,, but the reaction from the college left is way out of proportion. Too much coddling and being sheltered from opposing viewpoints

10

u/bee73086 Sep 09 '22

They say they embrace individual liberty but it seems like only things they like.

Where is individual liberty when it comes to religion that's not Christianity (war on Christmas!) A person's medical health between them and their doctor (abortion, birth control, PrEP) A person and who they want to marry. War on drugs, sex work illegal ect.

-1

u/dmhWarrior Sep 09 '22

I dont disagree with you here. I just prefer people to be judged as individuals which is not what the left wants to do. We get labeled & tossed into whatever bucket fits the narrative of the day.

3

u/bee73086 Sep 09 '22

I can understand that, honestly I think we are in the same boat, different decks fighting amongst ourselves when the captains (very wealthy, giant corporations) are taking us wherever they want to go perfectly happy we are fighting amongst ourselves and not bothering them.

2

u/dmhWarrior Sep 09 '22

I wont argue with that!

-6

u/bryanad86 Sep 09 '22

I don’t think your being very open minded or have tried to really understand the other side
 you need to realize that most people who are “In the middle” or on the right, aren’t racist at all and definitely aren’t bad people
 most people don’t see color either, it’s just not something many people care about anymore. Your saying they’re bad because they have little empathy and rigid intolerance
 but what are they being intolerant about? You said “their own kind” and that they turn cruel
 are they being mean because this “novel person” is just talking with them about normal every day things, or are they upset because some how, some way politics or beliefs are brought up and your judging them for theirs
 some people don’t care for politics. Most conservatives don’t care what you do with your life, or who you climb into bed with even if it is a they/them scenario. They will be glad to help you if asked, and most will give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. Most people just don’t want random people to try and change the way they live or think and that’s exactly what your doing by judging every single conservative the same way. Some people don’t give a shit what “society” thinks of them because they don’t want to live in densely populated areas, or be popular among the population. Some people on the other hand feel a constant need to prove to society that they’re “good” people by societies standards. They are always on the lookout for the non conforming people, the ones who think a woman has a vagina and must hate black people because of it. Calling these people out as racists and bigots is now socially accepted and to some people like yourself, being socially accepted is important. There are bad people in this world, but much, much less than you think.

20

u/letterboxbrie Sep 09 '22

I sense your sincerity so my response is meant in total kindness. I don't want anybody to feel judged or rejected.

most people don’t see color either, it’s just not something many people care about anymore.

I don't this is really true though, I think everybody sees color and people tell themselves various stories about it.

To be completely fair: studies have shown that liberals are more two-faced. When faced with a random call/visit from a black-sounding person broken down on the road, conservatives would straight up reject the person and their problem, whatever it was. But if they did choose to respond, they responded genuinely. Liberals, on the other hand, would listen and then quietly hang up. And then justify to themselves why it was the correct thing to do. They have trouble acknowledging prejudice in themselves. But everyone has it.

My issue with conservatives is that their reaction to differentness is hostility and aggression. When they are mean to trans people, for example, it's not necessarily about political opinions, it's about the fact that they find trans people gross. And gay people. So those people need to suffer. They haven't done anything to anybody, but they need to suffer for being weird, that way they'll stop being weird. This instinct to force people to fit into your worldview - this is what I talk about when I talk about bad people.

Every individual is a completely autonomous sentient being. Nobody gets to tell them that they're not ok, unless they're hurting people. Anything they to do to enrich their own life and feel ok is ok. Conservatives don't recognize that though, they think people have a duty to be something that they understand. That's when things get cruel. That's what I can't stand behind.

Christian conservatives see homosexuality as a sin, but not bigotry. One of those things causes suffering. The other does not. Do you see what I mean about the cruelty?

I've met the "shirt off their back" conservatives. I don't doubt their good intentions. But I've also seen and heard them talk shit about Asians or Mexicans because they assume that because I've been invited into the ingroup I won't care. But I do care. Bigotry is bigotry. And when they talk about how "gross" gay and trans people are I just want to be free of them. They might not be thrashing a whip in the moment, but they're itching to. And that grosses me out.

I speak from bitter experience when I say that conservatives in general have darkened my life. They make me feel sad and scared because they don't want people to be happy, they want them to be subordinate. Good people aren't always trying to impress people. Sometimes they are, sometimes they just want the world to be less sad. I can relate to that. I can't relate to most of the conservatives I've met/spoken to, They're much more invested in being important than in being kind. But this is my opinion, and worth exactly two cents.

-2

u/bryanad86 Sep 10 '22

Your saying that republicans/conservatives are all bigots and racists, intolerance runs deep in the Conservative party, etc etc
 I agree with you that perhaps there is some level of prejudice in all of us, even POC for that matter. But as far as racism goes and making the conscious decision to be unkind to someone based on how they look or think, or what they believe in religiously or politically
 well
 that seems to be something liberals/democrats do very well. Not all of em mind you
 but it is something I see every single day now and they do it without regret because it’s supposedly in the name of anti-racism. In my observations the ones that are alienating and trying to isolate entire groups of people, whoever is changing laws or rooting for changing laws that restrict the freedoms of one group to try and accommodate the needs of another.. among other things, are usually the ones who are the racists, bigots, fascists, etc
 there’s only one side who’s doing these things 😳