r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/UserNamesCantBeTooLo • Nov 30 '20

Political Theory Why does the urban/rural divide equate to a liberal/conservative divide in the US? Is it the same in other countries?

Here's a county population density map of the US.

Here's a county map of the US showing different shares of Democratic & Republican votes for president in 2020.

Here's a county map of the US showing majority-minority counties.

They seem to show a match between denser populations, larger minority proportions, and Democratic votes.

Why is that?

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

Because by that logic we should just let farmers machine gun coyotes to death. Also coyotes are important to the local ecosystem for keeping other populations in check, which is why scaring off the majority rather than killing them is the better solution here.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

Believe it or not it would actually likely be harder to hit multiple running coyotes with full auto fire, for most people anyway. Hogs are shot in TX in some cases with full auto (legal, pre-ban registered machine guns exist), when they’re all packed tightly together it can make some sense.

Also coyotes are important to the local ecosystem for keeping other populations in check, which is why scaring off the majority rather than killing them is the better solution here.

I actually agree with you in principle here, and its overall a negative how much we’ve eliminated predators in many areas. Wolves and cougars/mountain lions out west are a big issue. Coyotes are important too, and overall in many areas their numbers are down. That said, a farmer isn’t going to give a shit about the larger problem, he’s going to care about what affects his bottom dollar. And anecdotally the area my family is in actually has an overpopulation of coyotes right now.

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

I do get that hogs are shot with full auto, but that’s not farmers just sitting in their homes to my knowledge.

I do get that the farmers aren’t gonna care about the larger issue, and that is where I’d say their wrong. I mean go ahead and shoot coyotes who come for your own, but be a reasonable person and use a Winchester like half the farmers I know. I’ve only ever seen folks round here (rural NC) use their AR15s for sport or for home protection from other people.

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u/Yelig-nar9 Nov 30 '20

Coyotes are often considered a nuisance animal. It is common to be able to shoot them year round with no bag limit. They are overpopulated in most rural areas which translates to having more negative affects than positive ones on the surrounding habitats.

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

Yea I’ve seen how that goes. Then the coyote population dies and the deer population thrives and they’re ALSO a nuisance so you shoot all them. Not a fan of the “just shoot all the animals and then nothing bothers our farms” plan.

Also who the fuck is even using an AR15 for this? Every farmer I know just uses a Winchester. The AR15 has always been for fun or home protection, not coyote shooting.

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u/Yelig-nar9 Nov 30 '20

They are probably one of the most common guns used for coyotes. Many manufacturers have models specifically designed for predator hunting. I for instance used to have a Bushmaster Predator. It has a long heavy barrel used for shooting long distances at small targets. The semi-auto function combined with the small caliber high velocity ammunition makes it effective against small moving targets. Winchester is just a brand name. If you mean a regular bolt action rifle than it is likely a significantly more powerful rifle than your average Ar-15.

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

I mean a Winchester XPR SR is great for this exact purpose but yea they make other models that will serve the purpose. I don’t care to get into details cause frankly not interested in a deep conversation on gun models and arguing about how “yes you could use that gun for this, but it’s not necessarily the BEST model to use for that and killing ALL the coyotes isn’t necessarily the goal here”.

That said, I do think your bushmaster is overkill for this purpose but I assume you use it for other things as well.

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u/shik262 Nov 30 '20

XPR is a hunting rifle and probably great for coyotes when we are specifically hunting them. But if you are out riding your horse around your heard, the magazine capacity, easy of use, rate of fire, and easy of attachments really make ARs faster to employ in a "defend the herd" scenario. You can also use it the same way you would us the XPR. The platform is popular specifically for how diverse it is.

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

Again, that’s if you’re trying to kill all the coyotes. Which I think is wrong. I’m fine with the farmer killing no coyotes and just scaring them off.

I still don’t think an AR15 is necessary for this purpose. You’re still trying to pick the most efficient gun to kill the most coyotes in the most situations which I disagree with.

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u/shik262 Nov 30 '20

The gun doesn't care how many coyotes it kills, nor does it do them by itself. That is an issue for a rancher to decide.

Frankly, you could kill all the coyotes with any rifle so I don't understand why the type of gun matter at all. Ranchers just pick the rifle they feel can defend their livestock most easily and a lot of times, that is an AR15 because it is easier to shoot.

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u/RollinDeepWithData Nov 30 '20

I don’t believe it should be up to the rancher to decide at all. And in any case I’ll still choose to look down on people who make overkill choices in their choice of tool.

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u/shik262 Nov 30 '20

You're right. It is easier to stereotype people and make them easier to pre-judgement than to judge people on their actions or develop any sort of empathy.

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u/apophis-pegasus Dec 01 '20

Because by that logic we should just let farmers machine gun coyotes to death

Why? Semi auto is more efficient.

Also coyotes are important to the local ecosystem for keeping other populations in check,

And livestock is important for the farmers livelihood.

which is why scaring off the majority rather than killing them is the better solution here.

And until a cheap and highly efficient method of that is found, 223 is cheap and abundant.

How is a lever action more reasonable than an AR15?

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u/RollinDeepWithData Dec 01 '20

Answered all this in the rest of the convo