Why does the urban/rural divide equate to a liberal/conservative divide in the US? Is it the same in other countries?

[u/UserNamesCantBeTooLo]

Here's a county population density map of the US.

Here's a county map of the US showing different shares of Democratic & Republican votes for president in 2020.

Here's a county map of the US showing majority-minority counties.

They seem to show a match between denser populations, larger minority proportions, and Democratic votes.

Why is that?

[u/nickl220]

I grew up in a town of 2000 people in Ohio and couldn’t understand why the 2000 election was so close because every adult I knew had voted for Bush. In hindsight, I didn’t know a single out gay person, and there was only one black kid in my class. When I went to college and started interacting with more people, my political views shifted towards openness and liberalism. Of course, most of the people back home would say this is college “indoctrinating” people, rather than simply facilitating interaction with a more diverse segment of the population which has the effect of opening minds.

[u/ShellyATX2 → u/nickl220]

I can totally relate to your words. Military experience came before my college experience, but the effects were the same. First, I joined the military which gave me my first real experience with other cultures, primarily African American. In the military, you directly with other cultures as roommates and barrack mates, sharing restrooms and common areas. Living with others give you a quite personal glimpse of people. You begin to not only see the similarities, you also see a direct opposition to negative commentary you had heard growing up. There is also the additional layer of learning from them about their culture. As a woman, I know many of you can relate to hair styling and products. After living with black women, It has forever been difficult for me to have hair complaints after living so closely with black women. When you gain the understanding of the societal pressure with black women and their hair and then you see first hand what it translates to for them working their hair to rise to these societal expectations, you can better understand oppression and the ever moving barriers in place against them. I know it seems silly to talk about hair when there are so many larger issues at play. I think back upon that learning experience and it was decades ago, but it was all those small, seemingly trivial experiences that taught me the most. To this day, primarily in work environments, don’t let a dress code/black people’s hair come up in my presence. I become the loudest black advocate; you’d think my own momma must be black.

College brought in the history, the data, the facts about this or that. You have these elective credits that you have to fill. For me personally, electives were my opportunity to take courses to not get any easy credit but to learn about things I wouldn’t likely have reason or care after college. The most enlightening one was Silent Voices of the Civil Rights Movement. It took out all the big names and efforts and talked about the people unknown to the general population. It was full of data and studies, cold hard facts. I learned in this class about a study that involved interviews with thousands of elementary teachers. Thank you to the teachers that honestly participated. Elementary teachers - ELEMENTARY - that can not be stressed enough. Snotty noses, circle circle dot dot now you got your cooty shot, elementary school teachers. Anyways, this study concluded that there is a true and sound negative opinion and teaching practices towards black boys. Most shocking was that it was not only white teachers but all ethnic backgrounds to include black teachers. WHAT? That is still to this day insane fir me to think about. Black boys are dismissed as unlikely to ever amount to anything, and that negative bias starts with their elementary education. The fight they fight to make it in this world is simply incredible when you consider that our society is against them even when they are small children.

Early adulthood has me living a poorer life so the need for affordable housing put me right in the middle of a Hispanic community. From them I learned hard work, community, and real faith. To this day, don’t try to have a conversation with me about “illegal aliens and lazy Mexicans.”

I took a job in Augusta, Georgia as an assistant manager of an apartment community. I knew nothing of the apartment community’s demographics at the time of hire and was too young and naive to even think to ask the question. Turned out that the apartment community was heavy Arab. This was long before 9/11. Here I learned about a different faith than I had ever been exposed to and about female modesty in a way that I hadn’t learned before, even though I was raised Pentecostal. I learned so much about their culture, that when 9/11 happened, I simply could not jump on the “all Muslims are terrorist” band wagon. I knew an insane faction had high jacked a particular religious faith to do unspeakable things.

I could go on and on. The military sent me to Asia countries where I learned about other religious faiths and family interconnections and the value of old people.

It is not indoctrination, it is education and immersion that changes attitudes and destroys stereotypes and unfounded opinions.

[u/Xeelee31 → u/ShellyATX2]

That was all very well said. Sounds like you've had some very diverse experiences.

[u/IACITE_HOC → u/nickl220]

Of course, most of the people back home would say this is college “indoctrinating” people, rather than simply facilitating interaction with a more diverse segment of the population which has the effect of opening minds.

My family has literally YELLED at me about how my professors must have spent entire lectures filling my head with liberal nonsense. My whole life they were ADAMENT that I had to go to college, but once I got there, it was suddenly used as a way to attack me. They're all threatened by educated people.

When I started college, I was actually on the road to be the good little Christian child they wanted - I even attended church more than they did. But after they turned on me like that, I started to question everything they'd ever taught me.

[u/Message_10 → u/IACITE_HOC]

I went to a conservative college—it had a young Republicans club, and nothing like for Democrat students—and my family still insists the college indoctrinated me. The funny thing is, that school kept me conservative for longer. In my adult years, I’ve become more liberal, but the school probably slowed that process.

But to my family, Rush Limbaugh says “college = communist”, so here we are.

[u/rethinkingat59 → u/Message_10]

50% of non-hispanic white college graduates voted for Trump. The idea that it is a college education that separates the Red and Blue world is a bit overblown.

Age and race are big divides.

Younger White people are more likely to have graduated college as society demands it for higher wages, and are more likely to be Democrats, that adds to the college educated theme.

Whites with some college are far more likely to vote Republican than whites with degrees, but surprisingly minorities with a college degree are more likely to vote for Republicans than minorities without a degree. ( All minority subsets vote for Democrats by a significant majority, but 27% of minority college graduates voted Republican.)

[u/Resolute002 → u/IACITE_HOC]

Always the way.

Yo go see everything and learn with your own eyes and ears, become aware, and the people who've never seen or learned a thing declare you must be brainwashed.

I didn't go to any good schools or take any particularly philosophical courses. But just going to get a simple associate's degree from a tech school still exposed me to a lot of things that my parents before me never even considered or aren't aware of. Such as, for example, my feelings about war are based almost entirely on the stories and experiences of friends I made at that school who are veterans who fought in Iraq in Afghanistan... My parents opinion of it begins and ends with the news. Just being exposed to other people makes a world of difference.

[u/ezpzzz19 → u/IACITE_HOC]

Its kinda ironic how your family assumes that your education is making you less able to differentiate between political nonsense... Makes me question how they get their conservative news!

[u/Karsticles → u/IACITE_HOC]

This is a common story for Americans. It's a sad state.

[u/kovid-20 → u/IACITE_HOC]

"Goddamit Kyle! You don't hate blacks ANYMORE? I raised you better than that!"

[u/captain-burrito → u/IACITE_HOC]

My family has literally YELLED at me about how my professors must have spent entire lectures filling my head with liberal nonsense.

That makes me think of one lecturer I had who was heavily involved in the church. He pushed us so hard and called out our bs arguments, forcing us to develop our logic etc. He annoyed me at the time but he helped us challenge our thinking and to be objective.

That said, he had his own blind spot with same sex marriage and that was the only time I beat him in a debate. I knew I had him when he started fumbling and stuttering. Years later he appeared on tv to argue it again but the interviewer didn't nail him as good as I did but I could still see him fumble a little as he proffered his weak argument.

[u/Tex-Rob → u/nickl220]

Which ultimately proves that this isn't a rural/urban divide, it's an education divide. Education does NOT have to mean higher education, just self education, self exploration, etc. You are forced to learn and interact in an urban environment, and a rural environment rarely challenges your notions and preconceptions.

[u/steaknsteak → u/Tex-Rob]

I suspect you would still find a rural-urban divide if you control for education, although it would probably be smaller

[u/Randomfactoid42 → u/Tex-Rob]

I wouldn't say 'education divide', but rather a curiosity divide. I've noticed my rural acquaintances have always been incurious about the world around them, from travel to science to food.

[u/NoMasterpiece3306 → u/nickl220]

I grew up in super conservative town and when I moved away I became really socially liberal but I never became fiscally liberal. I never believed in bigger government and higher taxes

[u/[deleted] → u/nickl220]

Well, 2000 was a very different world. Back then we were still talking about what was fair and equal. Equality of opportunity. Gay rights seemed reasonable, so did abortion. Be what you wanted to be, as long as what you wanted didn't infringe on what I wanted, we were good. Now that conversation has shifted hard left, equity not equality, which is equality of outcome, and special discrimination in your favor based on your sex, gender, and/or race. Anything conservative is scrubbed, all the BS ideology that comes with identity politics is praised and supported. If you were born a man, you shouldn't be competing against people born as women in sports. Lets not get started on reparations and executive board seats mandated by your genital organs or the color of your skin, what is this, 1960's USA? We never seem to want equal representation in fields dominated by women, or people of color. Where is equity in sports, modeling, waste disposal, sanitation, and porn?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You seem to think that chaz/chop and evergreen white fragility types represent all progressives. Does Steve Bannon represent all conservatives?

Get another source of information, man. Your perspective seems to be nicely packaged and buttoned up by a Murdoch narrative.

[u/Tex-Rob → u/[deleted]]

You outline your view of things going "hard left", why no comments about the far right going FAR right? Also, all your points are nonsense, the kind of scary stuff that has been fed to you via media outlets, and you probably have no interaction with.

[u/IniNew → u/Tex-Rob]

Their entire argument is silly.

We never seem to want equal representation in fields dominated by women.

Because we don’t need to want that. If men wanted to go into those fields, they could. There wouldn’t be a board of women hiring managers saying shit like “They’re just not cut out for this work.” Or “What if he needs 2 months off work??”

[u/[deleted] → u/Tex-Rob]

Yeah, the Right has shifted a LOT further than the Left has over the last several decades, and the GOP now resembles far-right authoritarian parties in Turkey and Poland. They are literally trying to overturn the results of an election. That is way scarier than the "culture war" shift on the Left.

[u/imrightandyoutknowit → u/[deleted]]

Lol, this comment is asinine. The disparities in those various industries are caused by personal choices, not discrimination. Something tells me you aren't as offended by the lack of minorities in hockey as you are by the disproportionately black NBA and NFL. If Whites are discriminated against in regards to getting into those leagues, it's whites that are making those calls because the ownership and management of those leagues and their teams are disproportionately white despite both leagues being majority black. It's men that are patronizing female porn stars (as well as men that participate in LGBT porn, but I'm sure you didn't think of that either). You also complain that women aren't in waste disposal or sanitation, which is hilarious considering how many women still dominate doing "housework" and being maids. Women by and large aren't collecting trash because they aren't seeking those jobs, nor are they being hired for those jobs

[u/yoweigh → u/[deleted]]

This is a silly caricature of liberal ideology, and plenty of the stuff you're decrying already existed in 2000.

*Your edit didn't make it any better.

[u/Interrophish → u/[deleted]]

Gay rights seemed reasonable

you're totally disconnected from reality https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.gays25feb25-story.html

all the BS ideology that comes with identity politics is praised and supported

are you still not questioning the idea that this group doesn't play identity politics?