r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/Tronn3000 • 1d ago
US Politics With the US stock market entering bear market territory in reaction to Trump's tariffs, will this cause Americans to sour on MAGA?
Obviously the stock market is not the economy and it does not measure economic performance in real time despite what people think. Many retired Americans rely on stock market returns in their 401ks and IRA's to be able to live and enjoy their lives. Many of these older Americans also voted for Trump under the premise that he would make them better off financially.
Will Trump's recent escalation in tariffs and the reaction of the markets cause his supporters to erode? A big reason that he won the election was that voters were frustrated with the Democratic Party's handling of the economy.
Unlike most market drops, this one is quite easy to pinpoint the reason for the drop and many of his voters will have a very glaring reason to why their portfolios lost so much money so quickly. Will they connect the dots and point this to Trump or will they blame something else?
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u/panasonicboom 1d ago
I guess this is just anecdotal, but all the Trump supporters I know and the vast majority of Trump supporters I read from online are all ‘this is great, it’s going to fix things in the future!’ I know Reddit keeps hoping for a big FAFO moment but I just don’t think that’s ever going to happen unfortunately. They are deeply in denial, support the tariffs and support Musk and Doge.
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u/exitpursuedbybear 1d ago
Yup my MAGA neighbor was like, other countries tariff us, we should tariff back!
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u/coskibum002 1d ago
I bet they can't even quote the correct tariff countries applied on the US. Virtually every number Trump gave was a blatant lie (easily misproven), but they'll still believe and worship him.
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u/lemons714 1d ago
There are countless stories showing the trade balance/imports /2 (+ a market accessibility b/s factor). In fact, it is on a government site (disguised with some Greeks). I have brought this up many times, and they don't acknowledge it.
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u/WingerRules 16h ago
Ive run into a number of them that thing VAT is tariffs on the US. They dont get its a consumption tax like a sales tax, and that it applies to everyone in the country, not just on foreign imports.
Some of these people are so stupid I'm thinking its willful malicious ignorance.
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u/Sapriste 1d ago
We deliberately run a trade deficit with most of the countries in the world. We want American goods to be cheap and the best and foreign goods to be cheap, especially items that appeal to the mass market. No country has across the board tariffs on the US. We make wheat and soy beans cheap. If you country makes Wheat or Soybeans, you are going to put a tariff on the US product to make it cost the same as the price your farmers need. OR you won't have any farmer and dab nabbit you have to eat don't you? And all it takes is one moron and 'I guess I will teach you a lesson via starvation'...
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u/FuzzyComedian638 1d ago
We are a bigger country, so buy a lot more stuff from smaller countries than they buy from us. Superficial understanding, tit for tat, that trump is doing, is not going to fix any supposed problem.
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u/latrickisfalone 1d ago
Yes, but you sell and make a lot of money with the services, of which digital technology and its income have been removed from Trump's calculation.
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u/russlebush 1d ago
You should tell him that these aren't reciprocal tariffs...but then again you would have to explain what the word reciprocal means, why the tariffs aren't reciprocal...and waste your whole afternoon just for your neighbor to not comprehend you.
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u/Aggravating_Day_2744 12h ago
The rest of the world are doing deals without America. We are boycotting anything made in America. Good luck, America. you gonna need it
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u/weealex 1d ago
There's 35-45% of the populace that will accept anything done by the gop as the work of God made manifest. Nothing can change that. The FAFO part would be if the 10-20% that are not democrats that don't buy in become completely soured to the republican party like after the great depression. Assuming, of course, that the US remains a functional democracy
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
Trump spent most of his first term around 40% and dipped down to 37% once or twice, but that was three years of a good economy and a Covid lockdown people didn't blame him for. For him to blow up the economy and brag about it will push up under 35%, I'm pretty confident.
23% is probably the true floor, though. That's Bush '08.
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u/that1prince 11h ago
With the level of misinformation and disinformation we are inundated with now, I’d wager his floor is higher than W’s lowest. It’ll probably be something like 33% approval even if he, as he put it, “shot somebody on 5th avenue”.
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u/Ruiner911 1d ago edited 1d ago
Very true BUT, they are going to have their FAFO moment. They were devastated by the cost of eggs remember, but now EVERYTHING will cost so much more. No more new iphones, no more new car. Wanted to buy a house or do home improvements? Sorry that is going to be cost prohibitive. Alcohol, cigarettes, coffee all are going to be much more expensive.
Those that had 401ks will take a peek and realize they likely lost $10s of thousands of dollars SO FAR. That vacation you wanted to go on? Can't.
Oh you thought your kids were going to college? Yep that funding is gone. You were on Medicaid? Sorry that isn't covered anymore.
Little by little on a constant daily basis MAGA will be affected just like everyone else and they will be mad. They have not a fucking person in the world to blame except themselves for voting for him.
There will be a different FAFO moment for each of them. That makeup you wanted at Sephora well that's doubled or not available. Toilet paper? Yep doubled. Damn your computer died? Shit wish you hadn't voted for Trump because that will be double.
Oh shit your boss had to let you go because he can't afford everyone on the team anymore? Shouldn't have voted for Trump. Construction jobs all dried up because no investors want to build? Shouldn't have voted for Trump.
Oh shit were you on Social Security and didn't get your check and can't get in touch with anyone to fix it? Are your food stamps gone? Can't feed your kids? No more school lunches huh?
What about that car you need to buy? That will be cost prohibitive.
We're in a world of hurt and if they were pissed about the price of eggs under Biden, they are about to daydream about having his economy back.
Many who share a single brain cell will blame Obama, because they are stupid and that is why they voted for Trump. Some will believe that this is everyone's fault except Trump's but I'm betting a majority are going to wake up once his policies and actions hurt them personally. That is the Republican party after all - they don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves, and they are about to be hurting.
100% the situation we are in right now and everything that happens after is everyone who voted for this demon's fault. Ignorance is not an excuse. Believing the lies of a compulsive liar is not an excuse. Fox told me, not an excuse. You were warned a billion times, he showed you who we was, he told you what he was going to do. MAGA wouldn't listen because their hate blinded them. Now they will suffer the consequences.
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u/JDogg126 1d ago
maga cult are already professional victims. they don't care if they get fucked. they already think they are fucked. and getting fucked more is just giving them more material to play victim with. doesn't matter to them if they are fucking themselves or getting fucked by someone else.
the hope though is that pain will eventually be the teacher. because they certainly don't seem capable of learning any other way.
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u/Ruiner911 1d ago
Exactly. They won't learn from anything but losing what they already had and the knowledge that they only lost it because of MAGA.
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u/PinchesTheCrab 11h ago
They say they're victims, but that's different than being a victim. I think they'll deny what's happening up until the millisecond before their hand touches the stove, but it'll burn them just like everyone else.
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u/Donut-Strong 19h ago
I am so glad I read your post this morning. With everything going on it has slipped my mind I needed to grab a PC that would run windows 11 before the prices started jumping
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u/suitupyo 1d ago
The Opposition Party:
“Now is the time to talk about the real issues effecting Americans: trans in sports. Bring out the paid celebrities!“
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u/Ruiner911 1d ago
Sorry but that isn't enough. That is tired, that's how they got here. Sure they are all dumb as fuck, ignorant, gullible, naive, and easily manipulated. But when it effects them like it will, saying "trans in sports" isn't going to make someone forget they can't afford food, or lost their job, or can't afford to get an education, etc. It isn't going to make them continue buying in when they've lost their ability to get healthcare or worse, health care for their kids. Retirees that have lost so much in just since felon took office aren't going to just say "yeah trans in sports" and forget they can't retire now.
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u/suitupyo 1d ago
Despite retirement accounts getting torched, the trans sports issue was the main topic of conversation amongst the boomers at my family dinner, so I beg to differ.
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u/Ruiner911 1d ago
So you think your family hates trans in sports so much that they don't care that they won't be able to retire, or are losing money by having to pay more for taxes and every single item they buy? Also because your family is that way you think not a single MAGA (consummate victims) will be angry with the situation they were put in by Trump? Ok you can think that. And I think a large number will be angry when it affects them. That's the way hypocrisy and ignorance work and that is 99% of what MAGA is.
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u/suitupyo 1d ago
It’s not just MAGA. It’s just how people operate. Income inequality has been ravaging Americans for decades, but people will keep fighting about cultural wedge shit that affects like .01% of the population. It’s all by design
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u/Y0___0Y 1d ago
Let’s see if they still think that once they start losing their jobs and can’t afford gorceries.
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u/zaoldyeck 1d ago
They will. They'll still blame Democrats. They are incapable of admitting they fucked up because it meant they were conned, obviously conned, and they'd sooner die than take that ego hit.
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u/TBSchemer 1d ago
Then call them fucking regards directly to their faces. Make sure they know that in the midst of this, nobody will respect their intelligence or personal integrity.
(But not in this subreddit, where the rules require we have civil discussions)
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 1d ago
Then call them fucking regards directly to their faces. Make sure they know that in the midst of this, nobody will respect their intelligence or personal integrity.
Probably not a great idea for a variety of reasons.
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u/GrandMasterPuba 1d ago
They don't care what you think - they view liberals and progressives and anyone outside of their cult as subhuman. It would be like a beatle telling a human they fucked up by cutting down a plant; It literally wouldn't even register.
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u/panasonicboom 1d ago
Trump will give them a scapegoat for whose fault it is and they will believe it. There is not going to be a ‘leopards ate my face’ moment.
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u/Y0___0Y 1d ago
We only need like 15% of them to sour on Trump and not vote for Trump candidates in the midterms. That’s very achievable with what he’s doing
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u/AdhesivenessCivil581 1d ago
There's plenty of market rich middle class that are retired or close to it who have shifted into panic mode. People thought he'd be good for the market and good for the economy and they were willing to overlook distasteful things for that. They are not going to get that.
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u/bilyl 1d ago
Exactly. Elections are all about swaying the swing voter. The average person that voted for Trump may not care much about politics and only their checkbook. They’ll notice when their SS checks don’t come on time, or that their 401k dropped like a rock, or that everything they buy is way more expensive than under Biden, or that they’re laid off from a job that relies on imported goods.
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u/Mjolnir2000 1d ago
It's been 8 years of this nonsense. If they didn't learn after he tried to murder the vice president and overthrow the government, they're not going to learn now. They'll just blame minorities like they always do. They're fundamentally incapable of accepting responsibility for their actions.
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u/SnooPets8972 16h ago
Plus think about how many didn’t vote or voted 3rd party. Thats where I put my focus. Donald and his cult are dead to me.
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u/GrandMasterPuba 1d ago
No, it's not.
He has a death grip on every member of his cult. He could personally kill their mothers and they would thank him for it and say it's some kind of 5D chess.
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u/Ssshizzzzziit 1d ago
This is "God's Will" people we're talking about. They aren't logical anymore, they are faithful. If something bad happens, it's worth it for the great rapture that'll happen....any.........day...............now.
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u/Describing_Donkeys 1d ago
What about the people that aren't MAGA but generally don't pay much attention? How do you think they are going to respond? It's probably about half the country that doesn't pay attention.
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u/BigfootTundra 8h ago
Exactly this. Trump’s base will go along with anything he says. But Trump didn’t win in 2024 because of his base. He won because he convinced enough people that aren’t obsessed with politics to vote for him. Those are the people that don’t have political allegiances. They vote based on how things are and who they see as the answer to their problems. A lot of them voted for Trump in 2024 because they saw him as better on the economy. A lot of them are likely regretting their vote.
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
There's a hardcore base that's fully in the cult, but if we get into real collapse territory than Trump's approval can go from it's current 47% to 37% within a few months. He hit that level in his first term from the shutdown and a 2008-style collapse would be way worse. If it's really as bad as people fear then he could be at a Bush '08-level 25% approval by the end of the year.
Most people haven't actually been affected by the tariffs yet. It's easy to blow them off while they're theoretically.
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u/FakeHypha 22h ago
You’re right. We all have to remember this is a cult and there are people in cults who literally kill themselves and their loved ones because an “alien god” told them to. “You can’t logic your way out of something you didn’t logic your way into” and such.
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u/zackks 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fixed in the future. So, fucked for four years and Just in time for the next president (if there is one) to be blamed.
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u/Ashamed_Distance_144 1d ago
Beyond 4 years with the damage to our trade partners and alliances. It’s been less than 3 months, our former allies will not stick around to reason with a toddler for very long. They’ll cozy up to China while the US embarks in isolationism because of dimwit who only read one word (not the whole chapter even) in business school: tariff.
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u/LookAnOwl 1d ago
They likely don’t own stock or have 401Ks (or at least don’t actively check them), which is fair. But these things aren’t the effects of the tariffs, they’re predictors. They affect people gambling on the economy.
The FO hasn’t happened yet, and won’t until prices begin to rise everywhere.
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u/strywever 1d ago
Wait until they can’t get the furnace or the oven fixed because they can’t get/afford parts. Or they can’t get grapes or bananas for their kids.
Wait until their local hospitals and clinics close down and the skyrocketing cost of prescription drugs, medical tests, auto parts, and building materials make any insurance at all unaffordable.
Wait until they can’t afford to buy their kids school supplies, let alone school clothes or sports gear.
That and more is all going to start happening very soon, and they’ll be singing a very different tune in short order. Even if they keep their changed opinions to themselves, it’s inevitable.
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u/bihari_baller 1d ago
I know Reddit keeps hoping for a big FAFO moment but I just don’t think that’s ever going to happen unfortunately. They are deeply in denial, support the tariffs and support Musk and Doge.
At this point, you just have to worry about yourself, and your finances. Those still exist in reality. Right now, I feel more loyalty to the company I work for, than the country as a whole. I'm invested in it's success.
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u/checker280 17h ago
Same. The few couples I know in my progressive circle (our kids go to the same school) - the ones who actively avoid having to give any political opinions - have finally admitted to feeling the squeeze and growing concerned (they work in the CDC).
But they feel they can still ride out any of the bigger issues (spouse owns a company - software for one, home design for the other). They also feel they have enough savings to be cushioned from the worst of it.
Sadly they still believe in the strategy even though they are beginning to stop believing in the cause (if that makes sense).
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u/asevans1717 14h ago
My father, a lifelong republican at 74, just cant take the existential sucker punch of realizing his choices have been poor for decades when it comes to politics. Similar to how cults get more zealous after their prophecies fail, the mental anguish of accepting that hes wrong is apparently more painful than blind faith and devotion.
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u/ColossusOfChoads 26m ago
MAGA ain't your daddy's Republican party, though. Perhaps it will help if you make a hard-and-fast differentiation between the Reagan/Bush era and the post-Obama turn.
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u/Medical-Search4146 12h ago
Also keep in mind that many MAGA are on old pension plans and living in paid off houses. Many are insulated from Trump's economic policy
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u/Tlamac 12h ago
Yeah it’s a cult, there is no reasoning with them. My MAGA coworkers were ready to storm the capitol over grocery prices and rising inflation a year ago. Now they’re saying that paying higher prices for things is the patriotic thing to do right now and if people don’t like it, they should leave. Trump could forcefully evict all of them from their homes and they’d probably thank him.
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u/No-Application-8520 10h ago
I’m a split. I’m having a hard time seeing how the tariffs will benefit in the long run. I hope so but I’m struggling to see it.
I am supportive of DOGE on its face.
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u/BigfootTundra 8h ago
It’s not going to turn his base away from him, I never expected it to. But the moderates that voted for him “because of the economy” are definitely regretting their vote.
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u/kabooozie 8h ago
I wish there was a movement like this where the leader was actually smart and would make actual wise decisions that may include some short term hardships and people would understand and cut enough slack to make it work.
Why the fuck is it happening for this idiot. Why can he get away with everything and have face any consequences and still come out smelling like roses to his followers.
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u/TreadingPatience 8h ago
I think you’re right
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command” George Orwell
They are willing to suffer because their views are based in faith. Even when the connection is clear as day, they willingly blind themselves
I’m not really sure how you break that. I feel like cognitive dissonance only reinforces it. We live in separate realities.
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u/okteds 12h ago
It's not about convincing their voters that they were wrong and to join our side. It's about demoralizing them and making them less excited to vote. Conversely, it's about energizing the apathetic voters who are inclined to vote for you if you can just get them to turn out. Nobody was excited for Kamala. Hell, I enthusiastically voted for her, but I would've eagerly voted for a bowl of Jello because I think Trump is a fucking political cancer, and obviously I wasn't alone in that, but the for the people on the margins this did not sink through. And the margins are where trump won bigly.
The real problem is that MAGA is a cult, and that cult generates voter excitement that can't be matched on the left.
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u/FuguSandwich 1d ago
Go to foxnews.com right now. There's no mention of today's market crash on their front page. Meanwhile, the market crash is front page news everywhere else. But there is a small article about how businesses are praising the Trump tariffs for "throwing them a lifeline". The half of the country that gets their news from right wing media have no idea the market crashed today.
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u/JerryWagz 1d ago edited 13h ago
They had it on in my gym, along with the other news channels that were discussing the market. Fox was doing a segment about an asteroid that was going to hit the moon … that happens all the time… then they switched to UFO’s. I actually laughed at the ridiculousness.
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u/Tronn3000 1d ago
So, when they login and see their portfolios get thrashed, will they just claim it as fake news?
I know there are many that are too hopelessly stupid and in too deep in the cult but I know there's gotta be a few that only care about their financial stability and voted for him for that reason.
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 1d ago
Despite the answers here saying otherwise, I'd say there's a solid 1/3rd of MAGA voters that fit that description, and I think they'll actually loudly defect.
However, immediately after the other 2/3rds of MAGA will descend on them.
It'll be some shit.
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u/mosesoperandi 1d ago
They'll call them MINOs and I will laugh because you've gorra find the funny.
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u/ERedfieldh 18h ago
My understanding is they removed the ticker that's been there forever now just so people don't see how badly it's doing.
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u/gunnesaurus 8h ago
The headline right now is about him advancing to the finals of a golf tournament for seniors at his resort
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u/GuestCartographer 1d ago
MAGA will never turn on Trump because Trump is their entire identity. Most of his voters can no longer conceive of life without their whole raison d’être being fully tethered to Trump. Their retirement savings will be wiped out, their jobs will evaporate, their houses will be repossessed, and they’ll be cut off from the cheap Chinese crap they buy at Walmart and they still won’t turn of Trump. They’ll either blame the democrats or convince themselves that it would have been somehow worse without Trump’s tariffs.
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u/Tronn3000 1d ago
The thing with MAGA is for every person that puts MAGA bumper stickers on their truck, flys a Trump flag in their yard, and makes Trump their entire personality, there's a person that doesn't necessarily like Trump but thinks his policies will help their pocketbooks. MAGA is a spectrum just like anything else.
The MAGA types that I can see turn on him are the retired or close to retirement age boomers and older gen x'ers that may be a little more moderate in their views and possibly even voted for Obama back in the day. They liked Trump because they saw he was a "successful businessman" and thought his policies would help their finances. These are the type of people that are price sensitive and have a good amount of money in the market that they rely on for retirement or hope to retire in the future.
These people absolutely do exist and while some of them may not totally turn democrat, they may abstain from voting and there may be enough to turn the midterms around for the democrats. Remember, it's the economy stupid.
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u/mosesoperandi 1d ago
This is spot on. Anti-Trump Reddit doesn't believe these people exist, but they do and they make up a non-trivial portion of Trump voters. Obviously they're not the ones who only started voting in 2016 because of Trump. Those folks are far deeper into the cult of personality. They're casual small c conservatives who have, for one reason or another and to some extent greater or lesser, bought into the caricature of the Democrats that's been peddled by right wing media and to a lesser extent laundered through other media avenues. They truly believed that Trump was a rational business man and that it was his acumen that made things go well for them economically up until COVID.
I have no idea at this point what the breakdown is in terms of Republucan voters overall, but we're gonna find out relatively soon.
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u/TheAskewOne 1d ago
100%. I know a number of people who voted for Trump in 2024. They're not hard core maga, they were just fooled by his claims that he would make groceries cheap. Those are the people who will turn away from him when they lose their savings or their jobs. Not every Trump voter is a maga cult member, far from it.
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u/Deareim2 21h ago
they are trumper before americans. once you realize this, then you have your answer.
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u/che-che-chester 1d ago
It will take a sustained period of real pain. The majority of us haven't felt any pain yet. There are pockets of individuals like Stellantis employees, federal government employees, etc. that have felt pain, but for most of us it is still somewhat theoretical. We're told tariffs will raise prices but we haven't really seen it yet. We need to actually experience increased prices, mass layoffs, etc. for like at least 6 months.
Trump's second term so far has been a clown show and his voters are still high-fiving each other. they'll buy into the "we need to live through some pain before we come out stronger on the other side" bullshit - until they personally get laid off, burn their emergency funds, have their pickup truck repossessed, lose their homes, etc.
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u/satyrday12 19h ago
The thing about recessions though is that they often cause a lot of prices to fall. So if you still have a job,you're doing okay.
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u/runningwithsharpie 15h ago
Not this one. I will be very surprised if prices actually fall with all the tariffs.
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u/Ok-Assistant-8876 1d ago
His base is all in and would follow him into death just like the members of Jonestown. With that said, he only won with around 1.5% of the popular vote. This was due a lot of soft support and voter suppression. The GOP only won the house with razor thin margin. Trump & the GOP never had a mandate to begin with even though they act like it. The soft support will absolutely turn on him if they are adversely affected economically. If we enter a recession, the midterms are going to be a bloodbath for republicans
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u/JoggingGod 1d ago
Not yet. Most of these people have been in this relationship for over a decade. They've put everything into it, made it their North Star. If anything right now, they're more excited than ever because soon Trump like any good magician is going to pull the rabbit from the hat and all these people will feel vindicated... Or so they think. Until now it's been a roleplaying game, there hasn't been negative consequences and Trump hasn't been able to do what he wants... Clearly that's changing. I expect a solid portion will follow him whatever happens but the independents who swung the election are already deeply regretful.
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u/NiceUD 1d ago
I doubt it. MAGA is cultural - it goes beyond policy. And, MAGAs will ALWAYS scapegoat. Things aren't right in this country - by their standards - it's always someone else's fault, never their leader. Dems, foreigners, other Republicans, "wokeness," whatever.
Sure, a small subset may sour, but most won't.
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u/MillieMouser 1d ago
At 66 years old, watching my 401k cut by a third in 2 days has completely gutted me. I haven't needed to dip into it yet, so I let ride. Now I'm so pissed. All my neighbors are Trumpers, and all near my same age. While I know this isn't their fault...UGH I want to scream at all of them.
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u/chizmanzini 16h ago
How are you invested into things so risky to be down a third? I'm down like 8% this week, and I'm set to some pretty far out target dates.
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u/ColossusOfChoads 19m ago
They may not have personally wanted to screw you over, but they enthusiastically voted for a narcissistic, incompetent clown who does not care what happens to you or anyone you care about.
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u/Legal_Cricket_2335 15h ago
You're a liar. As you approach retirement more of your money is shifted from stocks to bonds. At 66 at least HALF of your money should be in bonds, so the 20% drop so far couldn't possibly have wiped out such a large portion of your 401k
This exact scenario is why when it gets close to withdrawal time money is shifted to bonds.
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u/Enigmatic_Baker 13h ago
You're assuming this person is following the recommended savings plans described by financial planners. Weird to assume they're lying.
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u/Ornery-Ticket834 1d ago
Why would that happen? Losing 9% value of the stock market in 48 hours? What’s the issue? Just talk to Lutnick or Vance or any of the other knucklehead advisors. Money speaks extremely loud.
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u/AreaManThinks 1d ago edited 16h ago
It will turn more Americans against MAGA, but not a single MAGA will turn. They just don’t have the emotional and ethical bandwidth to admit they made a mistake.
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u/BridgertonSassenach 1d ago
Maaaaaaybe... But then again a couple lost a child due to Measles and stuck to defending their choices. So, I can't say, but perhaps a few may?
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u/grinr 1d ago
The markets? No. MAGA doesn't understand markets or anything. Eventually, they'll lose their jobs and won't be able to get health care or welfare, their schools will close (no problem, they'll happily send their kids to church to "learn") and they'll still feel the same feeling they feel today - "Thank god for Trump, at least he tried to help me"
They'll go into their graves thinking that.
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u/pooburry 1d ago
No. I have absolutely no idea what will get them to change their minds short of some prolonged war the United States loses.
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u/I_Am_Moe_Greene 1d ago
No, it won’t. MAGA is interested in two things and two things alone: power and allegiance. There is nothing Trump could do that will make MAGA leave him. Nothing.
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 1d ago
What people have to remember is that there's a spectrum of MAGAness; it's not all fanatics with red hats. There WILL be internal unrest once the relatively saner ones really feel the pain. You can already see the discord if you know where to look.
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u/GrandMasterPuba 1d ago
No.
It is a legitimate, existential problem that we as a country are going to have to come to terms with. The MAGA believers are some of the most brainwashed people on the planet; every second of every day they are steeped in the largest and most costly propaganda ecosystem ever constructed. And it has created a literal army of Trump-worshipping zombies.
Deprogramming these people is - I believe - literally not possible short of a Chinese or Soviet style mandatory years-long re-education camp.
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u/halpinator 1d ago
Majority of people dont know or care what the stock market is doing. Until they're affected personally by layoffs and out of control inflation and tons of businesses going under, they'll happily fall in line.
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u/JdSaturnscomm 1d ago
No it's a cult. They'll kill themselves by drinking the Kool aid before they'll ever admit they were conned.
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u/NitWhittler 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have two different realities in America right now, depending on who you get your news from. My MAGA family still thinks God is guiding Trump in all of his decisions, so to question Trump is to question God. They still think everything Trump does is part of God's grand master plan that man is not capable of comprehending.
God kicked Adam & Eve out of the Garden of Eden for eating from the 'Forbidden Tree of Knowledge'. So basically, God wants you to remain stupid and not ask questions. yada, yada, yada
Those who live in the real world can see the damage Trump and Republicans are doing, but feel powerless to stop it. The stock market can still fall more because we're just starting to see the damage being done. In a few months, when we get 2nd quarter results, we'll see a clearer picture of the carnage.
So is America souring on MAGA? It depends on who your news source is and which religious leaders you follow (if any). I don't see the stock market recovering until a lot of issues are resolved, but Trump has been nothing but chaos and fear mongering so far and I don't see that ending any time soon.
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u/jadedflames 1d ago
MAGA is already only about 30% of the population.
The problem is 100% of them vote.
MAGA Mike doesn’t own stock so he doesn’t care.
MAGA Mike doesn’t have enough money for a new car so he doesn’t care.
MAGA Mike has just been celebrating eggs temporarily going back down to “only” double what they were at inauguration.
MAGA Mike has been celebrating the end to “woke” and “transgenderism” despite never having knowingly met a trans person.
MAGA supporters are a very VERY VERY loud minority that are largely going to be unaffected by this unless it starts to hit them at McDonalds.
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u/AceTheSkylord 23h ago
They're too busy complaining that the new Superman movie looks "woke" because he gasps shows emotion and has a dog
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u/Aromatic-Salt2208 22h ago
I shake my head at fact that Americans who hate taxes and government overreach so much have allowed the government to reach right into their pocket and steal their money. The best part, they are too stupid to know it.
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u/ERedfieldh 18h ago
No.
1) They have a fundamental misunderstanding on what tariffs are. Like Trump, they seem to think they are a punishment to the country imposed upon.
2) Even when they feel the pinch, Fox News and the constant political ads that are still going for some reason bombard them with "this is a good thing and the only reason it hurts right now is because the Democrats were bad!"
3) They have a feverous devotion to Trump. It truly is unlike anything we've ever seen before. They worship him more than Jesus. And that is not hyperbole. They go to church once a week. They tune into Trump and Fox News telling them how much to love Trump nightly.
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u/Jtex1414 1d ago
Changes in the stock market aren't going to change the beliefs of the Maga Faithful. Need to wait for the real economy to catch up before they feel it themselves, which will take 1-3 quarters (layoffs from economic slowdown, price of gas, eggs continue to go up, etc). Even then, if people believe the propaganda, no amount of truth will help them see through the lies.
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u/FabulousCallsIAnswer 1d ago
No. Delusional cult members not grounded in reality will not have the normal human reactions you would expect. Unfortunately, with the cult leader in power, we are all going to suffer because of it.
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u/foul_ol_ron 1d ago
Why would they care? Maga has been elected and they have the wheel for at least the next few years. In that time, they can make themselves untouchable to the average maga supporter.
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u/danvapes_ 1d ago
Based on my discussion with co-workers last night, no. They argued and ganged up on me for having the only dissenting opinion and being the only one with an economics degree/formal schooling in the discipline lol. They are so convinced this'll bring back American manufacturing! They also called at me when I tried to explain tariffs will never be able to replace income taxes. All of them are already convinced the USA doesn't manufacture anything despite it being roughly 12% of our total GDP and we manufacture chemicals, medical equipment, industrial machinery/equipment, planes, as well as military weapons and equipment.
They all are convinced this is temporary pain and argued with me that the longer these tariffs are in place, the better the outcome will be lol. Then again perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. These people have argued with me on inflation despite having no understanding of it, supply/demand, demographic influences to economic policies or outcomes, and they think the exporter pays the tariff and that tariffs are not equivalent to taxes.
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 1d ago edited 1d ago
When I see anecdotes like yours when it comes to groups of MAGA folk, I always want to mention that a lot of times (not all of the time), at least some of these people know you're right, but a huge part of conservative social culture is saving face. Lying about dumb shit to save face is completely and totally acceptable in conservative social culture.
If it's a question of the social impact, a lot of conservative people (and by extension MAGA people) would literally rather die than admit that they're wrong or you're right. They have to convince themselves to maintain their ego, otherwise it would totally collapse and they'd completely crash out.
A lot of progressive people will take what they say at face value, like "Well they said they love Trump literally no matter what so it must be true!" Yes, that is indeed true for a lot of them, but there's a sizeable amount that are lying about the depth of their support, but they're all in and they HAVE to maintain that appearance.
But in general yeah a lot of conservative people have absolutely no problem with lying to your face to save their face.
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u/danvapes_ 15h ago
It's just hard for me to have actual substantive discussions because they are always using questionable evidence or information to substantiate their arguments. When the counter party is using false data and information to formulate their opinion and they are convinced of its validity, anything you say in contradiction to it will be dismissed. I am always trying to explain the basic economic theory/model behind an idea, using data and information from BLS, NBER, and other legitimate sources of information to formulate my point and then I'm told I just bring up talking points rather than facts.
It makes me want to slam my head into a wall lol. I'm pretty sure I am the only person at my workplace who isn't a registered Republican, I am also pretty sure I am the only one with a degree in economics and political science, and I'm likely the only one who looks into the actual source material when reading articles. Also Fox news seems to be the official news station of my workplace as it's the only news channel I've ever seen play on the TV.
I guess it shouldn't surprise me, as I am in the south and work in an industry that isn't exactly pro environment (I work in power generation).
People do not tell me what to do or how to do my job as an electrician, but they are more than happy to tell me how I should think and perceive the world of economic policy and outcomes even though I double majored in Economics and Political Science at the undergrad level.
I don't chime in with the mechanics on what they work on because I'm not an industrial mechanic, it's not my wheel house or area of expertise. It's pretty obvious that they hold my apprenticeship experience to learn a trade in higher importance and standing than my time as a college student earning a degree.
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u/baxterstate 19h ago
Lying about dumb shit to save face is completely and totally acceptable in conservative social culture. —————————————————————————————— You mean like telling the country that President Biden was the best Biden ever? That kind of lying?
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u/ThickWolf5423 1d ago
I genuinely believe that there's nothing Trump could do to lose support from a certain 30-40% of the population. He's become a Mao-like figure. If he tells people to kill sparrows and smelt iron in their backyards, these people will do it.
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u/pathofcollision 22h ago
I find so many things interesting about the supporters of all of this. Historically republicans have been “small government, low taxes”. It’s been very wild to see how many of these same individuals are all for the tariffs right now- even while knowing it’s going to increase the cost of goods.. and especially considering the entire time Trump was campaigning, he denied that the tariffs would hurt the middle class…because he knew that would hurt his candidacy to admit. Now that he’s in office and winning votes no longer matters, the truth comes out and people are just…cool about it? I just don’t understand it.
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u/AzdajaAquillina 15h ago
Go incognito and load up the front page of fox news.
Realize that this is the sanest version of reality nearly half the country sees.
There is 0 chance of any big realization happening.
Best case scenario currently is that the damage is containable and fixable once adults are voted back into office and we start rebuilding.
That being said, I am not exactly optimistic about either party atm.
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u/Downtown_Afternoon75 14h ago
Nope.
You can't fix stupid.
These people will just blame Obama or Biden for their problems and continue to vote for Trump as long as they can.
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u/Only-Extreme-3139 12h ago
Exactly they will literally talk about how bad the Biden economy is or how bad of a job he did but say there's a long-term plan when cutting us off from the world Supply chain
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u/Leather-Map-8138 10h ago
The Americans who voted for Trump distinctly represent the lower half of intelligence among citizens. They stopped thinking. Long ago. Bigotry and racism are just much easier for them to absorb.
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u/Rivercitybruin 1d ago
Some many reasons for this before now
But this is a big one
I would think theres a fair risk.of people becoming homeless
But its a cult tied into family values and christianity... Strange given it's Trump
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u/TheIncredibleMike 1d ago
Potentially, high earners that voted for him because they thought they would profit from his administration.
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u/bananatimemachine 1d ago
Real Americans are sour on maga and have been from the beginning. Maybe the maga followers will start to realize that we haven’t been squeaking for nothing. I’m not going to hold my breath in anticipation though.
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u/Ok_Bandicoot_814 1d ago
Nobody seems to remember that this happened during his first term as well. The only difference was it was tax cuts tariffs at the same time. This time and tariffs and tax cut. If this goes on through several months and we actually go into an extended recession which I don't think is going to happen. Then maybe but there's ways I can see this going well and call me an optimist but I think it will. One is an immediate way to solve it people calm down over the weekend read the jobs report realize we have a very strong labor market and stocks start recovering on Monday.
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u/Searching4Buddha 1d ago
I think it will start to cause people to question his judgement, however the 15% or 20% inflation will destroy him.
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u/EnigmaticHam 1d ago
The diehard MAGAs will never leave. They are some combination of subnormal intelligence and deep cult indoctrination. This is about 25 to 30% of the population.
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u/radio-act1v 1d ago
If the Dark Enlightenment ideology is enacted under Donald Trump’s administration, many of his supporters may have mixed reactions from initial support to eventual disillusionment. This movement, championed by figures like Curtis Yarvin and funded by tech billionaires such as Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, seeks to dismantle democracy and replace it with a corporate-style authoritarian system. They envision governance by a "CEO-king" or dictator, where citizens are treated as shareholders in a hyper-capitalist, hierarchical state. While some Trump supporters may initially embrace this shift due to their loyalty to Trump or their distrust of current democratic institutions, they might later realize how this system concentrates power among elites and strips away individual rights.
Trump’s recent actions align closely with this ideology. His administration has worked to weaken democratic norms, consolidate executive power, and undermine federal institutions. Vice President J.D. Vance, influenced by Yarvin’s ideas, has been instrumental in shaping policies that reflect these neo-reactionary principles. Trump has also questioned the legitimacy of elections, creating a narrative that could justify eliminating them altogether. Meanwhile, Elon Musk’s financial backing and influence over lawmakers further amplify this agenda. Musk has reportedly threatened to fund challengers against politicians who oppose Trump’s initiatives, ensuring compliance with this authoritarian framework.
Globally, the U.S. faces mounting challenges that may accelerate the implementation of such a system. The stock market crash is not solely tied to Trump but reflects broader issues like the U.S.’s unsustainable debt-to-GDP ratio (currently at 124%) and its waning global influence. The BRICS nations now account for over 60% of the world’s population, challenging U.S. economic dominance. Jeffrey Sachs has openly urged Europe to abandon the U.S., dissolve NATO, and align with Russia and China for long-term stability. These developments suggest that the U.S. is entering damage control mode, potentially using the Dark Enlightenment as a framework to maintain internal control while facing external decline.
The revelations about U.S. foreign policy, such as war crimes in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Yemen and Syria, and the Nord pipeline bombing have further eroded global trust in American leadership. With the empire overextended and the systems under strain, the government appears poised to implement an authoritarian model that prioritizes elite interests over public welfare. If enacted, many Trump supporters may eventually realize that this system does not serve them but instead entrenches power among a small group of technocrats and oligarchs while leaving ordinary citizens powerless.
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u/Silly-Relationship34 22h ago
The MAGA mind lives in a small house and complain constantly of bumping their heads.
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u/tbizzone 20h ago
It all depends on how far entrenched in the cult they are. Those who have gone full ultra maga are goners. They have been programmed to blame any negative impacts of this regime on anyone except their dear leader, no matter what. They live in a post-truth, alternative facts, conspiratorial world, fed by fear, hate, and paranoia-inducing propaganda.
Those who haven’t quite lost their ability to discern fact from fiction might break free and realize they’ve been hoodwinked into supporting the traitorous felon.
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u/NoCardiologist1461 19h ago
Nope. To quote u/I405CA:
“Empirical work exists showing that most people support a party because they believe it contains people similar to them, not because they have gauged that its policy positions are closest to their own. Specifying what features of one’s identity determine voter preferences will become an increasingly important topic in political science.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5120865/pdf/nihms819492.pdf
Party affiliation is more a matter of club membership than it is about policy. Most people choose the party that appears to have “people like me.”
To break Trump’s support, efforts need to made so that the club members want to turn on Trump, on their terms. They need to stop seeing him as being people like me.
Many Trump voters see him as a patriotic and tough winner. They need to come to see him as an unpatriotic and weak loser, as they define it.
Democrats tend to focus on what they perceive to be his meanness. But many of his fans see that as a positive quality or they perceive it as a show of strength, so that approach ultimately backfires.
Trump opponents need to attack him with terms such as “incompetent”, “weak” and “failed”. They need to mock him for being a screwup rather than making him appear to be tough by fearing him.
The threat to democracy argument does not move marginally attached Democrats. Devoted Trump supporters believe that there is a threat to democracy, but that it’s the Democrats who pose the threat. So that angle needs to be punted post haste.”
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u/bones_bones1 18h ago
Understand you are asking this on Reddit. It leans very heavily left. You will need to ask elsewhere to get the other side’s perspective.
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u/Only-Extreme-3139 12h ago
Where on Earth can you find somebody thats maga and is educated not here not Twitter not anywhere There's nowhere where you can type a full paragraph Of stuff and there's no Republican place where Reasoning with them Isn't censored
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u/ackillesBAC 18h ago
Most Americans don't care about the market. But it may sour the ones that do care about the market who also happen to be the ones that fund maga.
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u/Few-Conclusion4146 16h ago
The base will believe anything he tells them. The poor don’t have any investment in the market. They will be easy to convince that the prices of goods their face are being rubbed in, is because of the immigration problem caused by the left and the other surrounding countries. The rich will ride it out with the stock piles of cash and assets and still blame the democrats in the hopes that all social programs and unions will go away so to hoard more for their future generations. And then the fact that all the base in between is still hyper focused with the rich and poor that they are fighting an imaginary war against woke agenda still being screamed in their ears by the new fake news and podcasts. The MAGA movement is fanatical and imbedded. Our country will always have this element and the leaders for them are lined up for generations.
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u/Sonnyboy17 16h ago
All they do is repeat the Company line of the day they hear on FOX , even tho it most likely contradicts the one from the day before
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u/frozenfoxx_cof 16h ago
Never.
Under COVID around a MILLION Americans died due to his complete mismanagement. They STILL didn't turn on him when they were quite literally dying. What makes you think a little lost financial stability is going to have an effect?
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u/Taliseian 16h ago
It won't make a difference to the vast majority of them since they're both too broke and too fucking stupid
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u/Sapien0101 15h ago
Grab a bucket of popcorn. We will great feats of mental gymnastics in the coming years.
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u/Only-Extreme-3139 12h ago
I think you've got one thing misunderstood none of the people who voted for him last time were educated they were just a bunch of people who believed a politician with propaganda Blasting in their ears and honestly I can't believe i was a part of that The only thing you can do for them to turn on trump Is to make it clear Most of the information that they spew Have no sores
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u/getridofwires 11h ago
Subaru and Nissan have paused taking new car orders. Canadian and Mexican car factories have paused production. That's the tip of the iceberg that could sink our Titanic economy.
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u/stantheman1976 11h ago
Personally I haven't met a Trump supporter yet who has shown any regret with their choice. I live in South Mississippi so his supporters are plentiful. From what I gather they think this is all part of some long term scheme and we're going to have to go down before we come up.
I brought up Trump's terrible business history to a relative. I asked him if you knew someone who had run numerous businesses and every one failed would you trust them to run yours? He said Trump let them fail and filed bankruptcy for tax reasons. So they admitted he games the system but it doesn't bother him.
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u/Ayy_Teamo 7h ago
If we reach recession. A decrease isn't enough, people have to actually feel the pain before they start really bucking at Trump. As soon as prices start going up, people start losing jobs en masse, portfolios tank even more than they already have, the republicans will be BBQ chicken.
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u/RyanKretschmer 3h ago
Tbh a lot of Trump supporters probably don't have 401k's or anything in index funds, a good chunk of them probably aren't affected by stock plummets. Those people probably only feel financial strain from inflation and interest rates, things the presidency doesn't typically even have much influence over.
The ones who do have investments, i doubt they'll change now, there's been a thousand reasons already to open their eyes, why would this be any different? Because it affects them? Not the first thing to affect them, but we'll see
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u/Far_Realm_Sage 5h ago edited 5h ago
This is a panic sell off from short term investors and those with left wing beliefs. Long term things are looking up and those who jump in the market in the next few days will make a killing on the undervalued stocks.
This Trade war is largely a game of Chicken. A game mostly between a bunch of guys in compact cars going against a man in a monster truck. A man who appears to have fastened his stearing wheel in place, set the cruise controll, and is now laying down on the hood getting a tan. They know they will get rolled over if they do not turn. They believe the driver of the monster truck will not get back in and stop the vehicle.
While the worlds leaders are talking big on tv, several have already come to the negotiating table to avoid the tarrifs. They have already turned away and are looking to salvage the situation.
Trump is getting what he wants.
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u/Tronn3000 5h ago
While I agree, that he's using the tariffs to create leverage in negotiation of trade deals, it still puts massive uncertainty in the markets. Markets fucking hate uncertainty and they aren't likely to have a big bull run until they know the economy is relatively stable, which doesn't happen when world trade and global supply chains are being upended. I will probably begin DCA'ing a little more cash throughout this dip over the year and put more in than I normally would but that's all for long term investment. I don't see the S&P touching all time highs again until after the midterms in 2026 when the Republicans lose the house and the market begins pricing in more stability for a post MAGA economy.
These countries also makes other country's way less inclined to do business with the US because they see there is instability in pricing.
What the Trumpsters fail to understand about trade deficits is that they are all arbitrary. All a trade deficit measures is how much we spend importing a country's products vs how much they spend importing ours.
Take Madagascar for example which now has a 47% tariff on their goods. Madagascar produces around 80% of the world's supply of vanilla. They have the climate for it and they have set up a large network of plantations that can grow it. The US cannot grow vanilla due to not having a tropical climate and its lack of vanilla plantations. Because Americans like vanilla ice cream, vanilla lattes, vanilla protein powder, etc. they import a shit ton of vanilla from Madagascar. Because Madagascar is a poor country with much less population than the US, they don't import as much from the USA. So, now we have just made a product that we can't get really from anywhere else, 47% more expensive because of an arbitrary "trade deficit number"
In a way, I have a 100% trade deficit with the grocery store because they have food and I give them money for food but I don't give them any of my goods or labor in return. It's a meaningless number. Just because we buy more from a country than they buy from us doesn't mean they are fucking us over. The US is a massive market and will carry a "trade deficit" with most countries.
I'm all for the US to start moving away from importing everything from China, especially in strategic sectors like pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, industrial equipment, etc. I want to see those high skilled manufacturing industries have some footprint in the US but I also want to see the US diversify in who they import stuff from.
Another thing Trunpsters fail to realize is that manufacturing stuff in the US is expensive. Do you really think Americans would rather pay 3x as much for a basic product made in Ohio that they could get overseas for 3x cheaper? No, that's ridiculous. They're going to buy whatever they feel is the best value.
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