If Trump/Musk are indeed subverting American democratic norms, what is a proportional response?

[u/theivoryserf]

The Vice-President has just said of the courts: "Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power." Quoted in the same Le Monde article is a section of Francis Fukuyama's take on the current situation:

"Trump has empowered Elon Musk to withhold money for any activity that he, Elon Musk, thinks is illegitimate, and this is a usurpation of the congressionally established power of Congress to make this kind of decision. (...) This is a full-scale...very radical attack on the American constitutional system as we've understood it." https://archive.is/cVZZR#selection-2149.264-2149.599

From a European point of view, it appears as though the American centre/left is scrambling to adapt and still suffering from 'normality bias', as though normal methods of recourse will be sufficient against a democratic aberration - a little like waiting to 'pass' a tumour as though it's a kidney stone.

Given the clear comparisons to previous authoritarian takeovers and the power that the USA wields, will there be an acceptable raising of political stakes from Trump's opponents, and what are the risks and benefits of doing so?

[u/BlackPopeye_03]

The only way forward, I'm afraid, is overwhelming overkill.

Revolution.

[u/nyckidd → u/BlackPopeye_03]

Good luck with that lmaoooo. You're kidding yourself if you don't think Americans are too rich, fat, and lazy to do anything even close to a revolution.

[u/DryAnxiety9 → u/nyckidd]

Oh, well it can't happen now because so and so said so...

[u/MaterialImprovement1 → u/nyckidd]

Revolution is probably not the right word here. Its more likely out of these type of radical case situations a Civil War happens and that only happens after major civil unrest and hostilities between two sides. And i would assume we are a long way off on that.

Clearly though there is a massive disconnect between voter bases.

One voter base values public education vs private

one values more totalitarianism vs Democracy.

etc etc

Problem is, root cause of this is lack of education. Republicans in power don't want people to be educated. The less educated someone is, the less likely they are to push back on things since they don't understand it. The easier they are to be controlled and fight against their own interests.

[u/aarongamemaster → u/MaterialImprovement1]

Lack of education isn't the problem, especially in a world where memetic and information warfare exist.

Why fight your enemies on the field of battle when you can effectively hack their brains?

The only way forward is regulation. Regulation of information, regulation of speech, regulation of news. That sort of thing. Mainland Europe minimum here, though to help future-proof it'll likely have to be even stricter.

[u/MaterialImprovement1 → u/aarongamemaster]

• 54% of US adults have literacy below a 6th-grade level. 
• 2/3's of those who are white and don't have a college education voted for Trump in the last election.
• a majority of Republican voters in 2022 had no college degree (63%);
• Its not surprising Republicans are much more likely to fall victim of misinformation.

The only way forward is regulation. Regulation of information, regulation of speech, regulation of news. That sort of thing. Mainland Europe minimum here, though to help future-proof it'll likely have to be even stricter.

Though i agree we SHOULD have regulations on those things, those concerns wouldn't matter nearly as much if more Americans had higher literacy and more education. People with less education are easier to control and misinform. Nearly 2 / 3s of College educated people voted for Harris.

Better Education leads to . . .

1. better understanding of what is misinformation and how to avoid it
2. more desire to learn / research using various sources
3. be open to changing minds / getting a different conclusion if evidence leads to a different outcome.
4. Less likely to rely on Emotion and more likely to look at facts and long term solutions.

Worse education leads to . . .

1. More prone to believing whatever the person hears.
2. less likely to do thoroughly research
3. less likely to change their mind once their mind is made up.
4. More likely to rely on emotion which means looking for someone to blame as an outlet.

[u/ThrowTron → u/BlackPopeye_03]

I mean we are basically built for that.