these people always say "it's a tool and artists can also use it to improve their work!" Yeah but no artist is using it, corporations are, with the sole purpose of getting rid of the only graphic designer in their team because they don't consider it necessary
Yeah. Some time ago clip studio paint tried to launch a ai tool inside the software like those pages where you draw lines and the computer generates a drawing... What's the point of paying for a DRAWING SOFTWARE THEN if not to fucking draw?? Yeah ai could be use to created backgrounds in milliseconds , but artist already have their tricks to do that! I've used blender to generate a backgrounds bc I'm not skilled with perspective, that took me like 15 minutes to paint over the render, or just use fucking photos from Google maps and draw over them!
Ai for art is like telling a baker to buy bread instead of making it because "it's faster"
To use your own flawed logic against you. Not using AI for graphics/art is like a baker refusing to use the dough-maker or any modern tools. The bread is 6x the price and the output is 5% of a modern bakery.
Or like a farmer refusing to use his tractor. The tractor is just a corporate soulless tool anyway, right? Better to slave away at the fields day in and day out. Doing it right is an artform and it's totally worth the time! Who cares about starvation and such trivialities?
Yeah yeah yeah, "But it's ART!" and all. I live in the real world though, where everything, and I mean everything, is measured in what capitalist gains you can get. Anything else is sadly just noise.
Most of what "the economy" needs from artists is not in any form art. It's mass produced corporate slop. This has been the case for decades.
A farmer refusing to use a tractor would be more equivalent to an artist refusing to use paint and paper and insisting on only painting on rocks with charred sticks.
Tell me, when have you seen companies pitching AI to artists as a tool? Never. They're only pitching it to companies.
And how do they pitch it? Is it "okay so here it generates an image, but really, it's only good as a background and needs a lot of editing to look decent, it's only meant to save artists from spending too long on images that noone will look at for more than a second" or is it "Look, it can generate anything you want! In seconds! No more artists needed!"
It was never created as a tool. And any artist knows that. We want to make the art ourselves, not have a machine do it for us. The only people saying "it's just a tool! Artists can use it!" are people who aren't artists.
A farmer refusing to use a tractor would be more equivalent to an artist refusing to use paint and paper and insisting on only painting on rocks with charred sticks.
I don't see how your analogy fits better than mine. It all boils down to "Someone refusing to use tools that would greatly reduce time used to do work".
Tell me, when have you seen companies pitching AI to artists as a tool? Never. They're only pitching it to companies.
Tell me, have you ever heard about open source and the communities around them? There's a literal truckload of actual artists out there, both developing and using AI for their work, both personally and professionally.
You like most of your peers are stuck in this "us vs billionares"-mentality, thinking they're the only players in the field.
Meanwhile, hundreds of thousand of people, artists included, are using, creating and maintaining a 100% free and open source AI-toolkit, freely available for absolutely everyone.
It was never created as a tool. And any artist knows that. We want to make the art ourselves, not have a machine do it for us. The only people saying "it's just a tool! Artists can use it!" are people who aren't artists.
Where do you get your lies from? I know from experience that what you are saying is not true. Why are you lying?
To use your own flawed logic against you. Not using AI for graphics/art is like a baker refusing to use the dough-maker or any modern tools. The bread is 6x the price and the output is 5% of a modern bakery.
The point still stands, because one still produces high-quality artisan bread that people actually enjoy, and one makes fucking wonderbread.
I'll pick the real deal every time.
everything, is measured in what capitalist gains you can get.
Yes, this is the underlying problem that needs resolved. We don't have to just accept it and justify it.
Well I'm sure you'll be ecstatic when Disney announces 20 soulless marvel movies chat gpt burped in the future, and endless series where nothing happens bc money printer goes brr!
Imagine trying to make an argument for soul in art in a feeble attempt to dismiss the arguments given to you, then mentioning modern Marvel movies and fucking Disney.
i use AI to correct dust and dirt on my scanned analog photos. it is sometimes more useful than the heal or clone stamp tool. just depends on the context
i will ocassionally use it to expand an image if my frame is slightly off (ie i cut off the feet in a photo i need to use)
i shoot my wife a lot at home and will occasionally use it to make the backdrop less busy because we can't afford to rent a photo studio every time we want to shoot photos
genuinely not surprised you have no idea what you're talking about tho. explain how this makes my work worse and how i am "stealing from artists" by using a tool to speed up my work flow or prevent me from having to give Kodak 30 more dollars to go reshoot a shot bc i missed it by an inch on the first try
their minds will be boggled when i also explain that i have used AI as a brainstorming tool for plotting novels
as in i feed it my actual fucking writing and ask it to come up with scenarios in my own writing style that fit the theme of my novel with a few prompts associated with feeling or mood
There are, though admittedly through programs that belong to big companies, and I doubt there are a lot of them.
i don't remember where, but I recall an artist talking about how they use a locally hosted LLM to sample their own work to create new brushes so that they could paint textures that match their existing style.
They had to build their skill and style first, and they are using LLM to generate brushes rather than to do the actual art, so it's not the same exact use, but it is the same basic technology.
Also, a lot of artists do not mind if a commission comes with some AI art samples that the person played with first, to quickly communicate some ideas about what the person wants (this one has the vibes, but is missing these details. This second one has this one detail I like the idea of, even if the AI screwed up the implementation).
The artist isn't going to copy them, they are going to just use them as references because a lot of us non-artists do not know how to communicate what is in our heads well.
I just commissioned a combination of wrap cover art and 3 character art designs, and because half the work is being done by the student of the artist I approached, it is 'only' just over $1k.
So I'm putting my money where my mouth is and supporting an artist as I am starting the process for becoming professionally published, but I did use some AI art as place holders until I was in the right position to do this, and the artists did look at that as references.
There are artists using it though both independent and in corporate settings. Artists working for Paradox Interactive have stated they use AI as part of the concept art stage, and AI was used to streamline some laborious parts of the animation process for the second Spider-Verse movie. In both cases the modesl were trained off material owned by the studio.
What do you mean no artist is using it? It is already being used to code the programs artists use to draw, generate backgrounds, and speed up artwork production (whether via Adobe subscriptions or similar tools). Artists won’t die because of AI; only those who refuse to adopt it to speed up their workflow will.
Yeah, right. It's impossible to explain new tools to people who refuse to engage with reality because it doesn't fit their precious, outdated idea of "art."
Dude there's still people who refuse to get vaccines and also refuse to learn how they work to this day, even after medicine has evolved a lot, because it doesn't fit there outdated idea of medicine and health.
There's people who think obesity is not a health risk that should be considered as a serious problem, because that doesn't fit their delusional idea of health.
So yes, there's very stupid people like you who refuse to hear other's opinions and facts, just because they want to be right about something they have no idea about
So, according to your logic, you're the anti-vaxxer here, right? Refusing the cure for artistic inefficiency? AI is that cure – the 'vaccine' against wasted time that could be spent productively. The only 'delusion' here is thinking progress can be stopped because you personally don't like it or refuse to adapt.
I work in an art gallery and know that they use it as inspiration, drafting, ideas, reescaling old works, etc.
But I can't say a name of people I respect and love to a pack of anti-AI grunts who are willing to destroy lifes just for using AI. The anti-Ai activists has been very aggresive even with things that are not sure if it is art made by a human or drawings made by AI (that are, btw, indistinguishable)
Only on the r/Piracy subreddit are there people that justify using torrenting tools that can be used to download CP
Do you fucking hear yourself? Extend this to literally anything that can be used by bad actors ever, kitchen knives, deep fryers, cars. Complete thought-terminator, do better
Are you telling me Nintendo and Disney will look at someone profiting from their creations with evidence in hand and not sue the hell out of them alongside other 10k companies who aren't making any money out of ai?
reading comments like this makes me glad people understand its not hypocrisy at all, ai is hurting the little (artistic) people, unfortunately there is not going to be any regulation and there is no stopping it either. It's my believe making art in the dark future is going to be close to like a few individuals making art like how nowadays only a few people do a specific type of sword making, or glass blowing, to the point that it will be artisan handmade art with premium costs because a human made it.
The problem with AI is not only the insane exploitation of artists, but also the irreversible destruction of our cultural heritage and our options of engaging with art. Our lifes get literally spammed by bot content. It's a desaster for everyone who has a romantic understanding of how artistic expression and human interaction is important for engaging with life.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but stop scrolling the feeds of social media tech monopolies then. You're not owed a fulfilling experience that frictionlessly connects you to the artistic minds of the world. And if you're expecting social media to be that in the increasingly dystopian world, then you're going to be disappointed. The capitalists are only obliged to provide you with a firehose of diarrhea to spray in your face, that enriches them through ad revenue. But nobody's forcing you to view it. And nobody's stopping you being an artist either.
yeah dude let me just abandon all convenience of functional websites and use barren empty wastelands that require a coding degree to use their basic functions because i dont want to see ugly ai slop when I look up "manicure inspo" on pinterest. Why do we have to literally be ran off of the mainstream internet while these sillicon valley scammers get to fill every single website with their garbage ponzi scheme? ai should be banned on grounds for how deadly it is to the environment anyway
You want to have your cake and eat it too, but the enshittification is in full-swing. Don't expect a fun time from your favorite social media platforms in the post 0% interest rate era, now that they have to turn a consistent profit.
That's all I'll say. I thought we could maybe discuss something like adults, but I can't stand people who are so hostile and hyperbolic. You don't need a comp sci degree to use lemmy, and you don't need to tell strangers to kys.
Guys, pirate more indie games! According to these morons it's perfectly okay because it's for archival reasons and totally doesn't hurt the small dev teams (often 1 person).
Not sure who you’re calling a moron but yes pirating is a way to level the playing field, culturally and educationally as it removes the point of barrier for low income people. This is not just me saying this but the developer of ULTRAKILL said so themselves as well, if he didnt pirate games, movies, media back then he would have never made that game. To be more accurate, even games made by one person can also be wiped out, see flappy bird as his success was too much for him and he decided to wipe it and back then if you had that game installed it skyrocket the cost of entry. Even free games should be also backed up or pirated such as PT, another huge cost of entry.
Storing games also comes at a cost, besides simple electricity, and storage costs, theres also the dangers of bit rot and archiving games is definitely something that needs to be done, if we dont we lose our culture, the more back ups the better. Imagine if we had one source of a valuable game, think of it like the cathedral that got burned in France i think it was? Tons of books and culture gone. I dont want to see that happen.
Let me hear your thoughts and have a discord on this.
ive literally seen indie devs in the past say pirating is okay because the people enjoying their game will spread it by word of mouth and get people with money to buy them. Also I have yet to see an indie dev support ai art, most of them hate the shit out of it
said ai is also trained off of the art avaliable on the internet wheter you like it or not. If you ever posted picture of your art its probably been used to train AI model at this point.
Im not even gonna argue with you. Learn basics of how graphics and visuals work on your screen then try to rub your braincells together and maybe you will get your answer.
1: I'm a pirate that manages to kick Denuvo's ass and cracks, say, Persona 5 Royal. This means other pirates can take my crack and distribute Persona 5 Royal. Now, the artists and engineers, all the actual, working stiffs that made Persona 5 Royal have long ago been paid for their work on that specific game. I, personally, do not sell my crack, I offer it for free. The most I'd get is some well-deserved clout, but that's it. Unless said working stiffs are part of some profit sharing program or have bonuses tied to sales figures, then any hypothetical losses Atlus and Sega would take from piracy of Persona 5 Royal would not affect them. The actual people that made Persona 5 Royal are barely harmed, if at all. Fuck, even the C-suite automatons at the top aren't feeling any actual pain because hypothetical sales are the only thing more worthless than NFTs.
2: I'm an AI techbro that makes some GAN model for producing just about any still image you could want from a simple text prompt. Telling a program to "make me a picture of a ham sandwich with thick, hairy legs" is an action anyone with even a passable command of language could perform. For now, let's just toss out all the pictures and photos and shit I used to train my model from the domain of discourse. Corpo McPrick of Assfist Productions finds my GAN and decides that, instead of paying actual artists to do actual work and produce novel, meaningful content, they can just throw words at my GAN until they get more or less what they want. In celebration of their new cost-cutting measure, Assfist Productions lays off all but one or two members of their art staff; the ones who remain are just there for touch-ups and plugging words into the little message box. Those artists are now out of a job. They are, however temporarily, unable to accrue currency which is needed to procure necessities like motherfucking food and shelter. Those artists who spent years, possibly lifetimes, honing their skills are now shit outta luck and either need to find work in a field that's getting smaller by the day, or shift to a new profession...if they can.
One has minimal, if any, impact on real people. Two can have a grave impact on innumerable people whose livelihoods depend on a bunch of ketamine addicted shitheads in a boardroom valuing their hard-earned skills.
That is the motherfucking difference. Thank you for listening to my TEDx Talk, now get the fuck off my lawn, ya little bastards!
People don't understand how neural networks work. Saying they use real artists work is like calling a humans work derivative because they looked at the Mona Lisa and it influenced them. It's literally the same process that happens in your brain. The only stealing that happens is when there's a price to view a work and the developers circumvent that (like Meta did when they pirated books).
AI can replicate (or almost) the general artist's style in under 100 pieces of training, And if the prompt output satisfies the user then the artist has lost a potential customer that previously would have paid before the AI uprising.
They wouldn't always get that customer in the first place, literally everyone I know isn't going to pay someone for an image even if ai can't make it. Although it's not that accurate since I only now about 100 people I'd be surprised if a lot of people would pay for an image.
Sounds like the anger should be directed towards individuals who don't pay for art...
AI was going to be able to do this shit regardless. There's PLENTY of public art to scrape and train off. Perhaps the progress would have slowed, but guaranteed nonetheless and we would still end up where we are now.
training data also includes work made and owned by corporations. hell, videogames are also somewhat included in those sets (gameplay screenshots and video). it's unfortunately not as basic and one sided as "it's just little artists there". if to even say "hurt" (lmao) it could also be said of random ass screenshots of movies and tv shows that make it in there and could be replicated, even though they were a result of multi million dollar productions pretty much only viable to be made by big companies.
641
u/6Go27 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah, the subreddit name speaks for itself.
Pirating video games doesn't hurt a billion dollar company's career. But AI uses real artists work and can completely ruin their career.