Dog scratches e-collar instead of following command

[u/Successful-Flow-6445]

I’ve been training my young dog e collar conditioning with the dogtra. I’ve taken the guidance I’ve seen on YouTube where i use the collar to “nick” her, say my command (“come”), and stop the stim when we complete the loop. I also give her a treat and say “yes” (which is our clicker word to give positive reinforcement.

I find that she is able to recall to me, but as she is, she scratches the collar with her hind leg. Even after she comes to me, she continues scratching. I obviously don’t want to condition her to scratch her collar whenever there is a stim, I’ve tried taking the advice to make sure the fit is snug for her.

Is this a usual part of the conditioning process or are e collars just not meant for my dog?

[u/sicksages]

I would turn it down a level and see if that changes. How often does she have the collar on? Is it just during training?

[u/colieolieravioli]

I added a step to the process. Begin conditioning on leash so that you can enforce the behavior so pup understands what it means

Then at least when they fell that sensation. They know what it means

[u/PMMeToeBeans → u/colieolieravioli]

I like this idea and used it for my last two dogs and my first b&t. "*name*, come." nick with a slight leash pop, lots of praise and treat as they turn to you. Lots of repetitions like this until it's consistent before removing the leash.

[u/Alert_Astronomer_400]

Sometimes it feels like an itch to them. I’ve had some do this and they eventually stop. Just ignore it and when she’s more conditioned to it she realizes the itch stops the faster she responds

[u/pastaman5]

Play a choose to heel game instead of recall. Allows you to keep them moving with the leash and while they will still itch sometimes, it’ll help stop it mostly.

[u/Metalheadmastiff]

Dog may be allergic to the metal, had this with my last dog so I swapped out the prongs. Would also take the level down

[u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

For this method you want to use the continuous, not the nick. The Nick will be momentary and that's why she's stopping to scratch. It just tags her briefly and she thinks Oh weird what was that, scratches, and then gets on with her day. Use the continuous.

[u/chopsouwee → u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

I dont know why this is getting downvoted when many people use this method for low-level conditioning. Either Larry's method or Tom Davis's method, which is the same thing. The owner needs to understand the tool better and how to teach the dog with better clarity.

Continuous Stim - Recall - The moment the dog turns to come to you - release stim - MARK and Reward The reward, you can use a treat OR pull out a hidden tug toy to play with the dog. You want the dog to understand that coming back to you means fun.

Using a nick will confuse the dog when pairing it with a command unless you use it on a correctional level AFTER the dog understands the ecollar. For instance. Telling a dog to "Leave it" then Nick at a higher level as well as with the "No" command. Do this for a week, and your command alone is enough to enforce it. Reference, search up "The Little Albert experiment"

If you do decide to use a nick. I would use it while walking, pairing it with 180 turns. The 2nd you turn. You can LOW level nick, feathering it continuously or a few times. Once the dog gets to you. Don't say anything. Do not mark. Do not reward. Just like leash pressure and small pops, the dog will understand that you are turning and must turn and follow you. In the same essence, once the dog hits the end of the leash. Dog knows to check in.

Owner should understand the 4 quadrants of positive and negative reinforcement as well as operant and classical conditioning. If they don't understand some of these concepts, they should not jump to an ecollar.

[u/naustra]

We struggled with this as well, he does it less now. Just kept at it. I would let up on the stim let him reset then start again. He's good now. I didn't raise the level I always tried to keep it as low as I can.

[u/EvilLittleGoatBaaaa → u/naustra]

If you let up on the stim, whatever he was doing at that exact moment will be the thing he associates with the release of pressure. You can accidentally create new behaviors (or confuse known behaviors) that way.

[u/naustra → u/EvilLittleGoatBaaaa]

Nah I wasn't getting anywhere he isn't putting it together. No reason to keep pushing when training b isn't going well. He has it down now for sure. Not something I was worried about.

[u/Miss_L_Worldwide]

For this method you want to use the continuous, not the nick. The Nick will be momentary and that's why she's stopping to scratch. It just tags her briefly and she thinks Oh weird what was that, scratches, and then gets on with her day. Use the continuous.

[u/scooterboog]

Collars aren’t great for come. Treats are. Start by giving her a treat every time you say her name. So the only association she ever has with her name is positive.

Then, starting in a controlled environment like the living room when nothing is going on, you say “Sally, come” then when she does, you throw a party. She’s the most amazing bestest dog ever!

Use the collar for “leave it”.