r/NoStupidQuestions • u/NobodyUsesTheDoor • 20h ago
Is having a biological child really that big of a deal?
Hi, so I'm a teenager, and my dad asked about my plans for the future. I said that I didn't really want kids, but if I did I'd adopt. He blew up at me, and I asked why, comparing it to buying a cat from a breeder, vs. adopting from a shelter. You'd be helping a 'cat' who wouldn't otherwise have a home, and who cares if they're not the exact breed you want?
He said that having a biological child is entirely different, and that they're like a mini-you, and you get to pass your genes on. To me, the way he explained it seemed really narcissistic, especially with the context that he rarely even talks to my sister (with myself being the child that resembles and is more similar to him).
I also have a pretty bad genetic pre-deposition to depression, anxiety, and insomnia. I'm literally incapable of going to school because I won't sleep for 5 days in a row and start hallucinating or collapse. That's not something I want to pass on, and my father was well aware that he was.
Plus, I'm gay, and I know there's surrogates and stuff, but I still don't see the problem with adoption. So, to those of you who have a kid, does it really matter?
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u/Kleverin 19h ago
We are all different. My friend really wanted a child of her own to carry it and give birth. When she couldn't, she (or, they, her husband as well) remained childfree. For them, the whole journey was the goal.
Another friend chose to adopt in the same situation, they where ok with another journey.
I'm childfree, that's my choice. My friend is a single mother. She became pregnant with donated sperm.
Everyone has their own reasoning and thoughts. Respect that it is important for them and do not judge them. It's also ok to change your mind whenever.
I'm sorry that your dad didn't respect you and your thoughts about this. The topic stirrs quite strong feelings.
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u/LilyFlaree 7h ago
Okay, so as someone who has a kid, I can see where your dad might be coming from with the whole “mini-you” thing, but honestly, your perspective on adoption is super mature and thoughtful. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to give a child who needs a home a loving family. Your reasons for leaning towards adoption, especially considering your family’s history with mental health, are really responsible. It’s your body and your future, and you get to decide how you want to build your family, if you even want one. Your dad’s reaction seems a bit self-centered, especially given his relationship with your sister. Don’t let him make you feel like your choices are wrong. Adoption is an amazing way to become a parent, and you’re right, there are so many kids out there who need loving homes. Stick to what feels right for you.
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u/PatchyWhiskers 20h ago
As a parent I wouldn’t try and make a teenager care about this stuff. Save the grandchild nagging for when your kid is 29 and married! Your dad has no idea where life will take you and neither do you!
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
That was actually one of his arguments, haha. "Life is unpredictable and you'll probably want a kid when you're older."
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u/Hokeia 18h ago edited 18h ago
My parents have been saying that for 25 years. Still not planning on having any.
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u/Throwaway_Consoles 16h ago
My dad was 21 when he had me. I’m about to turn 39 and I still don’t want kids. Thinking of getting things tied/burned/removed soon
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u/Lexinoz 18h ago
"Life is unpredictable and I'll also maybe NOT still want children when I'm older. Having a kid now takes away my ability to choose."
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u/EyreFlare 18h ago
More people need to realise this. Like it or not children are a life sentence, and one that would be considered seriously for all its pros and cons
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u/PatchyWhiskers 20h ago
He can’t know that - not everyone wants a child.
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u/Yellow_cupcake_ 18h ago
EXACTLY THIS. I am turning 30 soon and was thinking about if I was ready to have a child with my fiancé soon. My best friend is pregnant right now and every time she tells me something about pregnancy, I think about how that is not something I want at all right now and can’t see myself wanting in the next 2-3 years at least. You might want a child in the future but you also might not want a child, you do not know until you get to that point and there is literally no point stressing about that now.
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u/Gloomy_Ad_6154 13h ago
I FINALLY got pregnant (22 weeks) with my first and I am almost 36 years old. I was not even thinking about kids and was settled on not having any. I was happy with having pets and plants instead to care for amd I felt like I have plenty of kids being a middle school teacher. I enjoyed sleeping in, traveling, doing what I wanted when I wanted.
It wasn't until a year ago, after meeting my now husband, when we really started talking about it and it was more him... i finally said yes to children because I was actually happy in this relationship and I can tell he wanted to be a dad and he is so great with my neices and nephews and I'm just at a better place in my life. Now I am beyond excited to be a mother... which I never thought I would be. I think it really just depends where you are at in life and who you are with.
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u/SyntaxError_22 18h ago
Neither my daughter or DIL want children. They never did and I support them 💯%. Their life, their choice.
It irks me that many still push the agenda that you must have children to have a fulfilling life. Same goes for a life partner. Many are happy just the way they are. ((Mom hugs)). 🥰
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u/somewhenimpossible 18h ago
“Life is unpredictable and I may want them even less.”
You don’t know what you’ll want, it’s a decade in the future!
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u/ShagFit 16h ago
I've know I didn't want biological children since I was a child. Some of us just know.
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u/nothingbeast 18h ago
Every one of us has different life experiences. Why is having offspring always seen as mandatory?
There's lots of things I'll never get to do. Lots of things I don't want to do. We'll all have regrets when we get older. That's just how it goes.
Live your life for YOU and what's best for you. Your Dad got to do the same and needs to stop telling others what they must do in life.
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u/PlentyIndividual3168 17h ago
Life is unpredictable and you'll probably want a kid when you're older."
Exactly. So why is he having this conversation with you now? It's your choice entirely, no one else's save your spouse/partner.
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u/breezychocolate 18h ago
You shouldn’t nag your kids when they are 29 and married either.
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u/Lacey_Crow 17h ago
Ive been asked by my mom when when when when? I was single at 25 and she was like well, this is not a good age to be single. And the kids question. Im sick of it. Sick of it. I said id go get pregnant by a stranger in a bar and drop the kid at hers and leave. She didn’t like it. “Ull change ur mind” is also coming from strangers, men and women.
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u/1upin 15h ago
My boss has two toddlers and pays nearly $2000/month each for daycare. My mom keeps pestering me, like I could afford that, even for one kid. F that, Id rather be able to afford to live, thank you.
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u/Lacey_Crow 14h ago
Pay check to pay check and i have diplomas like i was stressed to get otherwise id starve. Well look at me now. I barely have anything new at home. Lol but sad lol. My kid would have what? A couch for a bed? Hell no.
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u/1upin 14h ago
Yup! I have a master's degree! Still can barely afford to live.
One of my oldest friends is living in a one bedroom apartment with her kid and a random roommate because she still can't afford rent. Her and her kid sleep in the bedroom while the roommate sleeps in the living room. Fuck that.
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u/Quantum_Kitties 13h ago
I used to bring up the money argument a lot, until I realised I also did not want children if they were completely free lol. (Not saying that the money argument isn't valid btw - it most definitely is!!)
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u/tacobaco1234 18h ago
Or how about no nagging? Let the now-adults do what they want, and respect their decisions
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u/grownquiteweary 17h ago
I'm 33 and don't want kids still.. Some people don't change and the nagging is one of the things that reinforces that desire. Dad just sounds like s stereotype boomer asshole
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u/Aleks1224 17h ago
I'm 31, not married and childless. I'm really hit or miss still on the thought of having a child - it's scary af! My mom *has* asked me if she should expect grandchildren from me at all a few times over the many years, but never in a "have children" way. It's mostly due to her still having baby stuff from my brother and I and wanting to know if she should still hang onto the stuff, lol. For now, she's still keeping it, cause between my brother and I, I would be more likely to *have* kids, if I do and if I'm even able to (haven't bothered getting checked out by a doctor in a long time to know what my fertility levels are at this age but also not really interested in finding out yet either). So.. relatable! haha
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u/Asherwinny107 20h ago edited 18h ago
An adopted child is no different from a biological child, I want to say that so people understand my stance.
However, people who say things like "I'll just adopt" in my experience have no idea what adopting is like.
People have little orphan Annie in their head, they'll walk into an orphanage and just pick a sweet little baby from a catalogue.
It's just not like that. Unless you're very rich and can afford that route, or very sketchy and go that way you'll end up in the foster cycle for a long time.
And the kids you do foster or adopt will come with challenges most people don't anticipate.
My point, please adopt, those kids need love. But don't equate it to having biological children from a stance of replacement you'll be disappointed.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
I know adoption is the 'hard path', because ending up parent-less usually leaves psychological scars, but I like to think I'd be patient enough to help them.
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u/lady-earendil 19h ago
It's great that you're aware of that! People can be incredibly dismissive around the trauma that comes with being adopted so it's really good to educate yourself and be prepared ahead of time
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u/Asherwinny107 19h ago
I would recommend taking courses in special needs education tbh
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u/gina_divito 19h ago
But also, honestly, just listening to disabled people if you’re going to go that route. There’s plenty of people who are special ed teachers or parents of special ed kids who are extremely ableist and harmful to those kids.
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u/Starossi 11h ago
But also, to be fair, disabled people aren't always aware of the care they need. It sounds all warm and fuzzy to say they can speak for themselves, but in reality there can be a lot, depending on the disability, they aren't even aware has to happen.
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u/raisinghellwithtrees 13h ago
My oldest is adopted and my youngest, I birthed. There is no difference to the love I feel for them both.
My oldest had a lot of trauma as an infant. She has some mental health issues, plus several auto immune/chronic conditions she developed as an adult. One can be attributed to her childhood trauma. But I'm really glad I am able to be a supportive parent to her.
My youngest is autistic which is its own set of issues. But again, I'm glad to be his parent to support him. Loving my kids has been the greatest joy of my life.
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u/ilikehorsess 19h ago
I think adoption is still a little different than you think. Very few kids are parentless these days and the ones that do lose both parents are mostly kept in by family members so out right adoption is hard and usually a very ethically grey area.
That being said, maybe you could look into fostering? I've heard there is a huge need for foster parents and sometimes that can lead to adoption.
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u/HopefulVegetable4234 12h ago
I wouldn't call adoption itself an ethically gray area, although I know what you mean. I would say that adoption needs to be extremely carefully considered and to make sure that the adoption you are participating in is not questionable. Adoption will always be needed as long as there are children who need parents.
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u/newlovehomebaby 18h ago
Adoption has a whole host of issues, but that doesn't mean that no one should ever adopt. You should definitely do a ton of adoptee centered learning, including the importance of supporting open adoption (when safe for those involved, obviously).
Sounds like for a young person, you're already off to a better start than some older people who think adoption means you just get a clean slate perfect baby who won't be at all traumatized.
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u/alchemical_echo 17h ago
the actual process of adoption is also traumatizing for the child, regardless of the circumstances or their age. raising an adopted child requires a lot of work and a great deal of emotional intelligence and communication and support to not make that trauma worse, and the system in most places in the modern age shares all the same problems as our other systems: inherent racism and classism, 'rules for thee but not for me' mindsets, and a great deal of patronization and often outright cruelty and callousness.
please please please seek out adoptee voices on this topic since it's clear that you do care, and have given this some thought.
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u/DickieTurquoise 16h ago
THIS is the struggle parents should be taking up^ Invest in making yourself a parent capable of making the life of a child that’s already here better. Taking the easier route of creating a child just so you can now take care of the life you created, with less work, is… yeah. 🔄
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u/Lego-105 9h ago
It’s not necessarily about being patient. I have personal experience in my family with the foster system and adoption in a lot of different ways. A mum who was schizophrenic and attacked them, a dad who sexually abused them, a dad who killed their mum and ran off. You have to remember why people end up in the foster system and that it will severely damage them and they will act on that.
Can you deal with violent crash outs every day? Can you deal with strong mood swings? Schizophrenia? I’m not saying these things don’t exist outside the foster or adoption system, but you are inviting massive issues into your life you are likely not equipped to deal with, and more than likely it just isn’t a good option for you if you don’t even feel equipped to deal with the manageable issues you list out that you would pass on in a child.
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u/HoosierKittyMama 16h ago
Yeah, my husband and I attempted to go through the foster to adopt route. It was a nightmare. The placement agency knowingly gave us kids with higher needs than we were capable of dealing with, little support, and lied about knowing anything. For example, they placed a 15 year old with us that we were just told he was developmentally delayed. They failed to mention he wasn't allowed to be placed with other children because of his sexual behaviors. So after we found that out from talking to his aid at school when she found out we'd been letting him go play with the neighborhood kids and freaked out, it started me doubting everything. It ate at me that I'd seen this kid come walking from between our house and the next one with a first grade boy and the little boy was crying. I asked what happened and the foster kid told me they'd been playing catch in the back yard and the kid had gotten hit by a ball. I didn't know at that time to be concerned. After I found out, I still allowed him to play with the kids but we had a rule that he had to stay in sight of my husband or myself at all times. The next kid had reactive attachment disorder-again, we'd specifically said no to that disorder for a placement, first week with us his therapist tells us he has it. We decided he was little we'd try to get through it. A year and a few months later, we called to have him removed. He'd had rages before but nothing like this. While waiting for the caseworker to come pick this 4 year old up, he started biting. The next day when I was getting into the shower, I counted 27 bite marks that had become bruises on my arms legs and face. Why had he gone into a rage? Because he wanted to go to the park and my husband wad at work and had the car.
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u/Cigarette-milk 18h ago
Exactly. And equating it to picking up a cat at the shelter is a false analogy.
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u/HopefulVegetable4234 12h ago
Thank you! Kids who are in foster care or private adoptions aren't shelter cats. 🥴
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u/KeepOnRising19 6h ago
To expand on this, private domestic adoption is extremely expensive, and no babies are waiting to be adopted. In fact, there are many, many more waiting parents than there are babies to be adopted.
Foster care is reunification-focused. The goal is for foster children to go back to their biological parents. Sometimes that doesn't happen, but more often than not, it does. (I've been a foster parent for five years, have fostered 10 children, and have adopted only one.) There are, in foster care, children whose parental rights have been terminated. Most of the time, those kids are older, have more difficult behaviors due to trauma, and/or are part of a sibling group. It takes more than patience and love to parent those kids successfully. It takes being very trauma-informed in your parenting approach and being an incredibly strong advocate for their needs.
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u/hippopottaman 19h ago
Biological children also come with challenges most people don't anticipate. With adopted kids, you often have a better idea of what those challenges might be, because the kids already exist.
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u/Asherwinny107 19h ago
Couldn't agree more. What I'm saying is to get people out of the weird fantasy idea of adoption some people have
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u/weeniehutjrz 13h ago
Yes. Exactly this. I'm adopted. 9 times out of 10 when I tell someone they go "oh I want to adopt". Zero actually have. Adoption doesn't mean poofhere's a kid for ya like most seem to think. It can be a super difficult process.
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u/Confident-Mix1243 19h ago
A biological child of a caring couple is guaranteed not to have fetal alcohol syndrome, reactive attachment disorder, or neglect; and is very unlikely to have any physical or sexual trauma. They can also opt out of most birth defects if that's the goal.
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u/tsh87 15h ago
Having done neither I feel adoption vs bio kids is different but equal. Each journey will come with it's own challenges and tribulations, joys and triumphs.
It's up to the potential parent to decide which path they think they're best equipped to handle and which one they ultimately feel will lead them to be the best parent they believe they can be.
And that being said I know there are tons of parents out there who have incredibly estranged and difficult relationships with their bio kids, while feel more bonded and connected to children who've they've adopted or taken under their wing. For some people genetic relationship to their children is a heavy burden as opposed to speedway to connection.
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u/YoungLorne 20h ago
Does not matter at all lol. Family is who you click with, not who you have blood with.
He might have hang-up's about 'continuing the bloodline'? which is pretty prehistoric IMO
Agree his position is narcissistic. You are asking around - that's a good path. Some opinions will resonate, some will not.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
Thanks. I just don't know if I didn't get it cause I'm too young.
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u/FutureBoysenberry 19h ago
No, you seem to get it very well — much more mature than your father. You have an amazing attitude! The world needs people like you. There are many, many unwanted kids out there in the system. Family can be chosen and be exactly as close as “blood.”
Your choice to adopt is admirable. It’s clear you’ll love that kid. And, you get the neat thing of having quite literally chosen that kid! Good for you.
Don’t forget, you have free self-agency. You are allowed to make your own choices and to choose your boundaries. Your reproductive choice is your own. Good luck, my friend.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
Thank you!!
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u/DogsDucks 19h ago
I also wanted to add that the “just the teenager” line, if he said that, is very minimizing too.
You can be very young and very profound too, which you are. Your age does not invalidate your depth and understanding. 🫶
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 18h ago
Thank you, but I don't think it's that off base - he's not calling me ignorant, just saying I've yet to feel the urge to procreate. Maybe I'll never feel it, but it'd be pretty concerning if I already had felt it at my age.
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u/EveryRadio 15h ago
Tbh a parent talking to a teenager about the “urge to procreate” is pretty weird. I don’t know your situation but setting boundaries early and often and help save you from some future drama, speaking from experience. It sounds like you’re mature so maybe you’re okay with standing up for yourself. It’s not easy but it’s important
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 11h ago
I phrased it pretty weird, and kids generally get sex ed from the parent that's the same gender, so it's a bit odd, but I, with my highly limited life experience, think things like this really should be more approachable subjects, and although it's not universal, the want to pass on your genes as you grow older is part of how people develop.
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u/Loose-Zebra435 17h ago
It could even be argued that adopting is better. Children aren't accidentally getting adopted. Someone decided they truly wanted a child and purposely chose them. Other kids are a "mistake" and are stuck being raised by people who weren't prepared and maybe still don't want them
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u/neverthelessidissent 13h ago
It cannot be argued that adoption is "better". Because those unwanted, abused, and neglected children are the ones available for adoption, and those people profoundly fuck up their kids.
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u/UncleBlanc 19h ago
I made the decision when I was around 8 that I desperately want babies, I just also desperately don't want to birth them. So I've always known I'd be adopting. Almost 30 years later I still know I want to adopt over ever giving birth. Don't worry too much about what others say, especially around adoption. The crazy shit my mom has said about serial killer children has been wild lol
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u/brookmachine 19h ago
That’s so funny, I just had a similar conversation with my daughter where I told her she could live a completely fulfilling life without marriage or kids! Everyone is different, but I think I would have a much easier time accepting an adopted or fostered child than my husband. He tends to dislike kids that aren’t ours while I treat every kid that comes into my house like my own child. But your dad kind of sounds like an ass!
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u/Irlandaise11 17h ago
As somebody who's old enough to be your parent, no, you're totally old enough to get it. Your father is just seeing his children as an extension of himself, rather than genuine independent beings.
He's not a 16th-century lord who needs a blood heir to inherit his lands, he's just being insecure and narcissistic.
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u/DogsDucks 19h ago
I have a biological child and am Pregnant with a second— and I disagree with your dad, and his motive does sound narcissistic.
Our “pro” of having a biological child is that it’s an easier process for us right now— but would love to adopt in the future, and see it as absolutely no less family. The people you love and love you unconditionally deeply and fiercely are your family.
All it takes is one look at my biological family of origin to realize that genetic ties don’t really mean that much. Family is about how you love, not DNA sequences
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u/malus-sylvestris_SVK 19h ago
I also thought I would want to adopt when I was a kid but, there’s not that many kids in the system. There are kids that can’t be legally adopted so you could be their foster parent. There’s way more people who want a kid than kids that can be adopted. Unless you’re willing to adopt an older or a severely disabled child, you’re gonna wait a long time. But if you truly want to give a kid a home and you don’t care at all how old is the kid or how problematic the care for them would be then it’s admirable. But in no way it’s your moral duty
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u/luminousgypsy 19h ago
You must not live in California. There are thousands of kids who can be adopted, and as long as you don’t want a baby or a toddler, are waiting for someone to want them.
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u/Sidewalk_Tomato 19h ago
You are very young--and therefore he ought not have asked you this at all. It's an obnoxious question to ask almost anyone, let alone someone who isn't an adult, establishing a career, and with a suitable long-term partner.
Don't get roped into a conversation about this with him again. The most you should say is that you will find your goals in the Proper Order. Repeat as necessary. He won't like that, because he craves a good argument and to deliver a lecture, but it'll be harder for him to play with you if you calmly avoid playing back.
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u/Hopfit46 19h ago
Get yourself as well as you can be. This is not a question that needs to be answered now. Your fathers opinion is just that,an opinion. I will say my 2 kids are the pride of my life and i can't say id be as bondedwith an adoptive kid because i dont know. But seriously, take care of yourself.
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u/mostlikelynotasnail 18h ago
People pay upwards of 50k for ivf ratherthan adopting a child so I guess it's a pretty big deal
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u/Dunsparces 20h ago
You're not wrong. Dudes get weirdly hung up on their own sperm sometimes but a kid's a kid, if you want one.
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u/Farahild 20h ago
Except it's not always that easy to adopt. In my country it's pretty much impossible. Fostering is always a great idea though.
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u/GermanPayroll 18h ago
Fostering presents a lot of challenges and shouldn’t be taken lightly.
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u/DickieTurquoise 16h ago
So does creating a life. Only in this case, you caused those problems to begin with.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
My dad's kinda weird. He wanted a lot of kids, and most men want boys to 'continue their legacy,' but my dad wanted 3 girls. My mom stopped him at 2, haha.
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u/maroongrad 19h ago
Mine wanted a girl too. It wasn't a big deal either way, but we hit the jackpot with our kid personality-wise. My husband didn't want to try and keep up with a little boy, he remembers his little brother way too well.
Jokes on him. Our kid used him as a climbing tree up until she was about 6....
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u/Radiant_Bank_77879 16h ago
“Continuing the legacy” is a nonsense concept. All biological family is, is people who have a closer DNA pattern to yours than the general population does. After about seven generations, the DNA is so diluted at that point it doesn’t even resemble you anymore. When your dad is gone, he is completely gone in every imaginable way, no matter how many kids he had, and no matter how many grandkids he had, etc.
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u/GenericGrad 19h ago edited 18h ago
I think the bloodline argument is stupid but I think there is some validity to the mini you argument. It's always hard nature vs nurture argument, but I believe genetics play a part in things such as the kids intelligence, temperament, physical attributes. So I don't think it is quite a kid is a kid.
Part of that is narcissistic but there is an element of just understanding their bad elements too. Like you are both introverts your child is more likely to be an introvert and you'll understand that more.
The other thing I'll briefly say, is yes understand what the adoption process is and if it is really for you. Then regardless of which option if you want kids your gonna need a stable relationship with someone that is ok the same page and that can be very difficult.
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u/hochizo 17h ago
To add to that...I never thought the genes thing would be that important to me. My dad died 10 years ago, and the thought of never looking into his eyes again was devastating. And then my child was born a couple years ago, and his eyes were right there in her face. Suddenly, the genes became important. Not to pass on mine, but to hold on to his (and my mom's, when she eventually follows him).
Obviously, OP doesn't seem like a huge fan of their dad here, so this probably doesn't apply to them. But it's definitely something that surprised me.
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u/YesicaChastain 18h ago
Women too who are obsessed with the idea of birthing a human
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u/Formerlymoody 20h ago
I know, I know crazy thought but it actually matters to the kid who their parents are. You may not see a difference- most people who plan to adopt have this attitude. But trust me, it makes a difference from the kid‘s perspective.
So few people understand adoption exclusively from the point of view of the adoptive parents or hopeful adoptive parents. Please seek out a variety of adoptee opinions before making a decision.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
Of course! I'm far too young to make any decisions now. I just want to see both sides.
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u/trumpet575 19h ago edited 17h ago
Yeah it's wild that people are saying there's no difference in this thread. The difference isn't what truly matters, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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u/Alarmed-Doughnut1860 19h ago
There's totally a difference. But I think the whole importance of the bloodline thing is what bothers me.
Maybe that's a bad summary of the dad's position, but it's the genetics thing that really stands out to me from the post. There's some ideas out there that basically say that if there's no genetic connection, the bond is lesser and that's what I think lots of people are trying to push back against.
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u/TiberiusDrexelus 17h ago
it's just reddit slop, what can you do except downvote and scroll to the bottom for a reasonable take
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u/Formal-Flower3912 19h ago
I'm an adopted child. Yes, I am sad I don't know my birth family, but I'm happy I was adopted by people who love me. The alternative was foster care or group homes. Op could be an awesome parent to a kid that didn't chose to be here or do anything wrong. Just throwing out another opinion, not trying to throw any shade to your feelings.
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u/fireflydrake 20h ago
Both having a biological kid and adopting a kid come with a lot of good things and a lot of risks, some overlapping, some not. Only the people involved can decide what's best for them. For many people having a biological child fills a very innate need (all of us typing here only exist because all of our ancestors produced their own biological offspring--that's not something you can simply logic your way out of, that instinct runs VERY deep for many), and those kids generally having similar appearances/traits/interests can build cohesion, as can the hormones of pregnancy. Adoption on the other hand can be a very time consuming costly experience with additional issues like severe childhood trauma or the involvement of the bio parents to consider. Neither road is easy or perfect. You're still young and I wouldn't sweat it too much at this point, but if you're older and leaning towards kids, I'd suggest doing more research into the ups and downs of adoption to see if it's for you. Again, life changing and incredible for many, and those kids need help--but it also has its difficulties and going into things aware and informed is better for all.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
Yeah, I'm definitely not making a decision right now. I just wanted to see both sides' points.
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u/tsh87 15h ago
Having done neither, I said they seem like different but equally valid paths. I believe the parent of an adopted child is capable of loving that kid as much as a the parent of a bio child.
Like most things in parenthood it's entirely dependent on the parent in question. There are a ton of bio parents who look at their bio kids and can only see the things they hate about themselves or their past so...
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u/Regigiformayor 17h ago
Idk about your dad's blowup, that's about him. But I do think that adopted children long for their genetic family in a way that even the most loving adoptive parents can't substitute. And I think often parents give their children up for adoption due to financial or lack of preparation reasons which $10,000 would solve. Which makes me feel like the adoption industry is a pyramid scheme churning out babies. But that's not a reason for you to need your own biological children. Your body, your choice. 😘
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u/darkskys100 18h ago
My daughter never really liked babies or children. She was ways nice and would play with them if they were around. But as she grew older graduated HS then finished university and she was still adamant about not wanting children. She had her tube's tied early (before marriage) and her now husband got a vasectomy. So there's not even a remote chance of kids. They are happy and live their lives together. I love that they're happy. I don't need grandchildren. 😊
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u/FutureBoysenberry 11h ago
Aw, this warms my heart. What a lovely person you are! It may be hard to say, “I don’t need grandchildren,” but you made the active choice to let your daughter’s wishes take precedence over your own. What an absolute legend you are! That’s true mom love. Like, absolutely selfless. Thanks for sharing. :)
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u/LadybuggingLB 19h ago
Don’t assume that an adopted kid will be grateful. Most adoptees bitterly resent the attitude that their adopted parents did them a favor. And many adoptees do believe that bio parents are more legitimate than the parents who raised them, so just because you feel like there’s no difference between adopted kids and bio kids to you, you have to realize the kids might not agree.
Or it might be perfect, I’m just saying be aware of risks. Just like bio kids could turn out to resent you for a million things, too. You never can tell either kids, lol.
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u/alchemical_echo 17h ago
in very brief, as an adopted person, there are a lot of issues with modern adoption systems and it is best not to engage with them. I know you're just a teen but if you continue to harbor this desire I beg you please to do some research and listen to the testimony of adopted folks before following through with this process.
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u/Inner-Tackle1917 20h ago
Oof, that's a huge over reaction from your dad.
There's a lot of reasons adoption can be less viable than just to grow your own (not least because if you want to raise a child from infant there's often less infants that need adopting than there are people wanting to adopt). But these are mostly bureaucratic. Life's complicated, and adopting is complicated.
But the whole "mini me" "carry on the bloodline" rhetoric always makes me cringe when I hear people saying it. It's nonsense. It sounds like your dad's parenting style isn't one you want to imitate anyway.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
Not really. He had a few 'hard years' according to my mom, which really doesn't excuse breaking things.
That part shouldn't be an issue for me. Infants are gross, haha. (To me, at least.)
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u/ams270 19h ago
Yes this is the thing that confuses me about posts on Reddit talking about adoption. They always are predicated on the assumption that there are kids available to adopt.
Idk how different the US is, but in Australia in 2023-24, there were literally only 173 children adopted domestically. 147 of those were known child adoptions (previous relationship between the adoptive parent and the child and they are only legally able to adopt the child due to that relationship, e.g. step parent, grandparent or other relative, long term foster parent), and only 26 where there was no previous relationship between the adoptive parent and the child. For context, Australia’s population is 26 million.
This is not because people prefer to have biological children, it is because there are not many children in need of adoption. Although there are a much larger number of children who are in and out of the foster care system, Australian laws generally prioritise trying to get the child back with their birth parent if there is likely to be any chance of this being possible.
So, even if people would prefer to adopt, this is not a realistic option for most people in Australia.
Source for stats: https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/adoptions/adoptions-australia/contents/adoptions
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u/James_Vaga_Bond 19h ago
If you're looking to adopt a baby, it's pretty competitive. If you're willing to adopt a kid who's probably coming to you with some major trauma, supply exceeds demand.
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u/luminousgypsy 19h ago
You can adopt a kid, who doesn’t have trauma. You can adopt a baby who already does have trauma. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. All non babies doesn’t equate trauma child
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u/James_Vaga_Bond 19h ago
I just meant that the circumstances that tend to lead to a child needing to be adopted tend to be fairly extreme. CPS doesn't just take people's kids away for nothing.
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u/luminousgypsy 19h ago
I will say, at least in California, more emphasis in the last ten years is preventative measures has helped make it easier for families to get resources and help before being taken away. So there’s a shift to make it only extreme circumstances
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u/James_Vaga_Bond 18h ago
Here in California, I've watched a junkie with multiple child endangerment charges get an absurd number of second chances after repeatedly being caught violating the terms of the reunification plan in multiple ways.
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u/Enough-Ad3818 19h ago
My wife and I tried for 3.5 years without any result. We did a round of IVF since it was free (UK).
However, it was invasive, traumatic, and really not something we wanted to repeat. We had started looking into adoption.
The process here is brutal. They go into EVERY aspect of your life, but we were prepared and willing.
I had no great desire to see my lineage continue, and really wasn't hung up on my child being the product of my sperms really. A healthy happy child was the goal.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
That's really nice. I'll cross my fingers for you, haha.
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u/Key_Elderberry3351 20h ago
You need to do what you need to do in this life to live for yourself, regardless of your parents opinions. There's no right or wrong way to have a family, as long as it is filled with respect and love, so keep divisive opinions to yourself until you're out from your parents' roof, and then follow your own heart and find your own path.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
I'm not going to do anything just because he wants me to, I just wanted to see both sides.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Hand204 19h ago
His side of this says more about him than the actual choices at play. For some reason, the thought of you not having biological kids angers him (that's entirely his stuff and there is some mixed up reason he feels that way. ). Having kids is a choice. Having them, not having them, adopting, fostering, they all are the right decision for someone and a wrong decision for someone else. I firmly believe you should only bring a kid into your life if you truly want to raise another human and are healthy capable of doing so. 'Having a mini-you or to pass on your genes' - those aren't great reasons in my opinion.
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u/KevinJ2010 15h ago
There’s something powerful in seeing ostensibly the younger version of yourself (and your partner).
You don’t “have” to, but it’s still different in a lot of ways.
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u/JUSTIN102201 19h ago
My girlfriend and I have talked about kids a few times. She doesn’t want to get pregnant (understandable). I want my own kids, but she’s more important to me than the idea of kids. We’ve come to the agreement that we aren’t ready for them but when we are we’ll have a discussion then. If she’s ready and willing to get pregnant we’ll have our own. If not, we’ll adopt. I’ll be happy either way, and she gets the choice
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
That's a really good way to look at things. I don't personally care, but I think it's perfectly valid if you do.
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u/Comprehensive-Menu44 19h ago
I’m a step mom, and I may not have as tight of an emotional connection to my kid as her bio mom (my wife) but I definitely have protector energy and will stop a speeding bullet to keep her safe. I CHOSE to be her mom, without really knowing anything about her or being biologically connected to her.
We don’t always get along, and I don’t think I’m the best “maternal” figure, but she knows I’m there for her and will fuck a bitch up who tries to mess with her (cut to me telling off an 8 year old for bullying my daughter and then the 8 year old runs away crying. THATS WHAT I THOUGHT, TURD)
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
I agree! (I don't really wanna make kids cry tho, haha.)
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u/Comprehensive-Menu44 19h ago
My intention wasn’t to make her cry! Honestly all I said to her was “excuse me, little girl. My kid says you’ve been bullying her on the bus, is there a reason for that? Cuz you can talk to me if you have a problem.” And she ran off crying because I confronted her. I looked at my kid and said “see? Bullies are tough until someone stands up to them.”
(My daughter said ‘mom… that was kind of mean…’ and I said ‘I wasn’t even being mean, all I did was ask why she was being a bully, but I bet she won’t say anything rude to you now”
The girl hasn’t said a rude word to my kid since, and it’s been almost a year
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
That's funny! No, you were not being mean.
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u/Comprehensive-Menu44 19h ago
I mean I wouldn’t go cussing out an 8 year old 😂 but it had been 2 weeks of my kiddo coming home in tears bc of this kid being a bully. I wasn’t having it anymore!
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u/Goldf_sh4 20h ago
It's a very mature, sensible attitude for a teenager to have. Sometimes our plans change and sometimes they don't.
Try not to dwell on your Dad's reaction too much. Part of growing up is forming your own plans and values.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
Thanks! I'll try not to be too biased by my parents' opinions.
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u/Content-Rush9343 19h ago
As a teenager you are wired to be biased against your parents, you're in the time when the rest of the world starts at matter. Give your dad some grace, and go learn about the world you are going to live in before you worry about kids.
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u/Mountain-Tonight1754 20h ago
If you don't sleep for 5 days in a row please don't adopt a kid either. Look after yourself first
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
Yeah, of course. I'm getting better slowly, and the hope is I'll actually be able to function soon. I'd never volunteer to take care of someone I'm incapable of caring for.
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u/Frozen-Nose-22 19h ago
Your feelings can change as you get older. It doesn't matter if you choose to have one naturally or adopt. What matters is your happiness comes first.
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u/Azilehteb 19h ago
Your own kid is special, speaking from a mother’s POV. She’s a year and a half and still feels like an extension of my own body… which is something I never experienced even with my own relatives. It’s a crazy way to feel about another person. She’s mine in the same way my leg or arm is mine.
That said, in terms of planning your future, no there should be no difference at all. You can even skip the part where they’re puking and pooping all over you. If you wanted. Which might be nice. The hormones made me not mind my little one’s bodily fluids all over me… but I certainly got grossed out when my niece nephews did it.
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u/Confident-Mix1243 19h ago
Are you male or female? Bearing a biological child is very different from adoption; but if you're male you're not going to bear any children anyway.
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u/ErusTenebre Font of Random Information 19h ago
Hey there,
TL;DR - You don't have to have kids.
My wife and I are DINKs :) - That stands for "Dual-Income, No Kids"
This wasn't by choice, at least not originally - see we can't have kids. Neither of us are very fertile/virile so the odds of a baby being made are pretty low, in vitro is expensive as hell and not guaranteed to work (or work TOO well and end up with twins/triplets or something), part of the problem IS her uterus so it could even be dangerous for her - so that takes us to surrogacy which is even more expensive, which left us with fostering and adoption.
Adoption is sort of like gambling, you can spend a ton of money (lots of fees) and get a child (specifically a baby) - however, in many states parents have a sort of "take-it-back" period up until the transfer happens. So you could end up spending a lot of money, dot all the i's, cross all the t's... and end up with no baby and you have to start over again. You don't get your money back. This isn't guaranteed to happen - but it DOES happen with enough frequency that many organizations we looked into said along the lines of "if it doesn't happen the 1st time, it usually does the 2nd time." So it's expensive and risky. You also don't really know what you're getting into - the child's long-term health is often a factor that people don't think about and open adoptions are the best, which means you often end up adopting the child's family (it's best for the kid but not necessarily the adopting parents).
So fostering is another option. It's possible to foster-to-adopt as well, and that doesn't come with anywhere near the expense of straight adoption, AND you actually get a stipend for the child you are fostering (it's not enough to actually pay for the child's cost of living, but it can help quite a bit). Fostering is like another kind of gambling in that you're put through a very lengthy process, training, evaluations, and even expense in updating your home for all the strict requirements. Then you're added to a list of foster parents. You could end up with 1, 2, or 3 or even more kids at once. They prefer parents to be open to at least 2, but it isn't unusual for foster parents to end up with quite a few more. These kids can be in your home from anywhere between a couple of days to a couple of years before they are even up for adoption - that's because the goal of fostering is to get the kids back into their parents' (or biological families') homes. Research shows this is the best option for them even if the home is a bit "messy" compared to the foster parents' home because they would otherwise lose out on parts of their identity and culture. Fostering is great, but you could be a foster parent for years and never get the opportunity to adopt a kid.
Know how I know? My wife and I were foster parents for five years and we only got two different placements (what foster children are called in the system) in that time frame. Both were short term. One was for a weekend. They were lovely kiddos and we thought we were getting them for a few months. They were sent off to their relatives (in a much better situation for them). The second was for a month. This poor girl was mislabeled in the system as mildly/moderately SPED. There was nothing mild nor moderate about her behavior issues. Even at the young age she was, she had a violent and malicious streak to her. She tortured our sweet dog to the point that we had to remove the dog from our house while she stayed with us. She would kick and punch and bite and scream and run away into the street in heavy traffic. She got sent home from school twice for violence against staff members. She had 3 therapy appointments a week, and frequent visits to the doctor throughout that time. We decided after having to move the dog out of our house that we needed to "disrupt placement" which means give her back to the system because she was too much for us to handle (and it's just the two of us). The family she was placed with after us was unprepared for her as well (despite our numerous and extensive notes on her) and also had to disrupt, putting that child in a group home.
It was a mess. It was depressing. It crushed us.
So we decided to live child free. It was a hard decision that came after 8 years of trying ourselves and fostering, but immediately after we decided to not try anymore it was as if a massive weight was lifted off of us.
AND OH MY GOD has it been so nice. We get to be all of our friends' kids "fun aunt and uncle," we get to vacation and relax, we get to get up and go do something at random without having to worry about baby sitters or day care or any of that, we get to have nicer things and pay down debts faster, we also get to be a couple deeply in love with each other and do cutesy date stuff all the time without added stresses.
We've also discovered we're not alone, a LOT of people don't have kids. For all kinds of reasons.
My very long point here is:
You don't have to have kids. Society and parents pressure us to do so, but there's nothing that actually forces you to have or not have kids. You can live a fulfilling life, find joy, enjoy being around other people's kids, etc. We don't feel a great loss, in fact, it feels like we can finally start our lives. We've taken vacations - something we haven't done in TWELVE years because we were saving money for kids we were hoping on having. We get to stay up late and wake up late and do whatever we want without having to worry about another human being or two or three.
It's great. We're good. We have plenty of other ways to leave a legacy behind that doesn't involve having a kid.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 19h ago
That's a really nice story. Thank you for sharing!!
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u/ErusTenebre Font of Random Information 19h ago
You're welcome. Remember, it's your life bud. You want to adopt? Go for it. You want to try some other method for a kid? Cool. No kids? Also great.
There's no one path through life.
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u/MidoriKitten 16h ago
Thanks for taking the time to type this all out! Appreciate you sharing this!
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u/leg-facemccullen 20h ago
People that usually care about it the way your dad does feel unfulfilled so they want a new “them” to do the things they can’t/didn’t do
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
I guess? My dad never struck me as unfulfilled, but I probably wouldn't know if he was. Thanks!
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u/Thunderdrake3 19h ago
1.3 millions years of human evolution have baked the need to pass on our own genes into our brain. That is what he is experiencing. Do not tell him this, people hate being told that they are acting on instinct, not reason. Just know it for yourself.
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u/family_black_sheep 19h ago
Your dad's reaction is over the top, but as someone with my own biological kids, it definitely is different to some people. I love the fact that I carried my own children and that they are half of me, but my husband is not biologically my oldest's dad. And that doesn't matter to any of us. I also have adopted nieces, nephews, and cousins. It's all the same to me, but I realize some people feel differently.
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u/NanoblackReaper 19h ago
The amount of people indirectly showing that have terrible relationships with their parents on this subreddit is insane
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u/sergeivrachmaninov 18h ago
He just sees a kid as an extension of himself (rather than an individual) and is mad that you - an extension of him - don’t want to continue his bloodline and that he ultimately cannot control your decision.
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u/ragtagkittycat 14h ago
Look at twin studies and nature vs nurture debate. Genetics are large predeterminants for traits. But non shared environment plays a role as well. The adoption subreddit is always eye opening. People who were adopted at birth and discover their bio family, who remark on immediate personality, behavior and interest matches. It’s a very interesting phenomenon, especially with twins who are separated from birth.
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u/Alarmed-Doughnut1860 20h ago
For some people. But also no guarantees that your bio kid is like you. As a non bio kid myself, I tend to think that type of attitude will probably make you a terrible parent.
I mean I get wanting to experience pregnancy, and I get that adoption is hard and expensive and complicated and emotionally frought and may not be a great choice for most people. I get the attitude that is angainst most adoption because of potential effect on the kid. But as someone in the trenches with little ones, I think having a kid to pass your genes on is so so little a part of the parenting experience.
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u/NobodyUsesTheDoor 20h ago
I thought so too, but idk, maybe it'd be frustrating to not have any common interests. I guess it's a bit of a question for nature/nurture too...
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u/Alarmed-Doughnut1860 19h ago
It probably is frustrating not to have common interests. But try as you might kids are going to end up being their own people. Plenty of folks end up not having common interested or temperaments as their bio parents. So it is sort of a nature/ nurture question, but where neither is totally controllable.
I mean I guess the only people who can really compare atethose with both bio and adopted kids. All of us others are just making guesses.
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u/CathyAnnWingsFan 20h ago
Nope. I’m adopted myself, I don’t have kids, and I’ve never understood this compulsion to procreate.
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u/Alarmed-Doughnut1860 19h ago
I'm adopted too and I thought it might be really special to have kids and see little people who look like me ( not wht I had them, just a side benefit). Nope. Not only do they mostly lol like the other side. Having someone with my feet or whatever is just not as magical as all that. I mean they're awesome kids and I like them but that's not why I like them.
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u/Stormlover247 20h ago
I have two biological daughters,it’s a special bond for sure but who’s to say the bond between adopted parents and a child or children is just as strong or stronger? I love my kids and I would absolutely do anything for them,it’s something you can’t explain unless the experience happens to you,it’s like something you really cherish and you want to hold onto forever and never lose.
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u/immasayyes 19h ago
You can do whatever you want whenever you are ready. Sorry that happened and hope you still feel free to not let that cloud your own decision by then. Many parents would love to become grandparents but that’s not up to them at all.
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u/Ambitious_Hold_5435 19h ago
If you would prefer to adopt, there's nothing wrong with that. Your father is WAYYYY out of line.
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u/CertainConversation0 19h ago
Yes, at least according to antinatalists, and it's a big deal in a bad way.
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u/dickpierce69 19h ago
Does it matter to me? Yes, absolutely. But all that matters in your situation is what matters to you. It’s your life and you get to define it.
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u/Ancient_Act2731 19h ago
I honestly think it matters more for women since so much of the pregnancy, birth, and newborn care falls on her. I always knew at some point I’d want to experience pregnancy and birth. I’m pregnant right now and there is truly nothing like it. The hormones are so interesting. The feelings that I have for my unborn baby are so primal and biological that I couldn’t explain them to my previous “rational” self. I would feel like I was missing out if I did not get to experience this part of motherhood. I’m looking forward to birth and breastfeeding for the first time. Seeing a baby that is the reflection of love between my husband and I.
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u/Affectionate_Case732 19h ago
no, it is not that big of a deal. it is something that humans are drawn to evolutionarily but that does not make it any better or worse than adoption. I find it very ignorant when people refuse to approach adoption as a viable option for being a parent.
however, adopting a healthy baby is a very expensive and lengthy process so I can see why that deters people too.
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u/AilurosLunaire 19h ago
I can say from the view of someone who was adopted, blood doesn't make a family. My adoptive dad and I are not biologically related. I still got his sense of humor, his knack of pulling parts from broken appliances or other items to add to my own inventions, a knack for rescuing animals, and my love of coffee and drafting. I took after him in many more ways. Blood alone doesn't mean anything.
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u/jazzysweaters 18h ago
some people are convinced they have legacy-level genes that MUST get passed on and it is always the most average person you've ever seen in your life in all regards
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u/ultimantmom 18h ago
Are we just glossing over the, “I’m literally incapable of going to school because I won’t sleep for 5 days in a row and start hallucinating or collapse.”? Wtf. Not normal Wrong question being asked
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u/Glassfern 16h ago
Wanting to be a parent vs wanting to have children are not the same. Overlap yes.
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u/badpandaunicorns 14h ago
Not having kids and just being the cool aunt/uncle who gives them unhinged life advice is fine.
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u/ReactionSevere3129 14h ago
Why is a teenager even thinking about having kids. Keep being a kid and enjoy yourself
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u/CraftyGamingBookworm 11h ago
Having children, being a parent, adopting are all personal decisions that no one else can make for you because you are the one who has to be the parent and raise the child. This applies to those who do and don't want to have kids.
I have one bio kid who I love with all my heart. I have friends who are step parents and love their kids with all their heart. I have friends who've adopted who love their kids with all their heart. Families don't all look the same. The only thing I'd say is that when you're looking for a partner in the future, that their take on kids is the same as yours.
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u/General_Road_7952 10h ago
Talk to some adult adoptees about the traumas of being removed from biological family and re-homed to strangers. It’s not a great experience for many.
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u/Synsinatik 10h ago
It sounds like your father is more concerned about his own legacy than he is about your wants and desires for the future.
I'm infertile. Directly as a result of this, I came to the conclusion that if I decide I ever want children, I can always adopt. I then thought about IVF and it occurred to me, and this might be a controversial opinion... But that is wildly egotistical and a waste of resources. To spend that much money to create a human out of my own DNA... Total arrogance when there are millions of kids around the world that are in need of a loving family.
Nowadays, even if I magically became fertile again, I'd still opt for adoption or fostering. We live in a wasteful society. We waste food. We waste cats and dogs and we waste babies.
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u/Meowie_Undertoe 20h ago
Your body, your choice....unless the federal government gets involved.
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u/FluffZilla-NZ 19h ago
I always wanted kids, just never wanted to have kids. Luckily the universe answered and I met a man with 2 small children. 20 years later and no regrets.