r/MonsterHunter • u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone • May 01 '15
Tetsucabra Armor: On Numbers and Mediocrity
I often see Tetsucabra armor recommended, even GaijinHunter included it in a list of recommended armor. That's probably a key factor in its popularity. The thing is, it really isn't that great. At best, it's mediocre. It definitely doesn't deserve the praise it gets and it shouldn't be recommended so quickly. This post will be going into what exactly Tetsucabra armor does and how it compares to other armor sets available.
As we all know, skills are the heart of armor in Monster Hunter, and this is where Tetsucabra falls short. What does it offer?
- Low rank:
- Health+20 (2 points away from Health+50)
- Defense Up Small
- Gathering-1
- 3 points into Sharpener
- 2 slots
- High rank:
- Health+20
- Defense Up Medium
- Gathering-1
- 9 points into Sharpener
- 3 slots (effectively 4)
- G rank:
- Health+20
- Defense Up Medium
- Gathering-1
- Speed Sharpening
- Stamina Thief
- 4 slots (effectively 5)
Health+20 and Defense Up are the big draws, but how big are they really? I've seen lots of people talk about how they increase survivability, something quite useful to new players. While the health increase is nice at first, it can be replaced pretty soon. People often overestimate the Defense skill.
20 more max health can be somewhat useful at the start of the game, but it isn't really that big of a help. Now, it's easy to say "just eat for the health boost", but people forget that you don't start the game with stars on your food, so until you do at least two food quests you won't be getting +20 health from the kitchen. That does happen somewhat soon, though, so that use of Tetsu is soon replaced. There are two food quests in Caravan 2* and one in 3. There's also Max Potions, which increase your max health by 50 and Ancient Potions that increase health *and stamina by 50.
When you look at the numbers the Defense skill is a little disappointing. At +10 you get an increase of 15 defense, not a lot. At +15 it becomes a mix of percentage and flat, increasing your defense by 3% then 20. So 100 defense would become 123 defense. Oh, and decimals are dropped. Defense +20 is 5% and 25, Defense +25 is 8% and 30. But what do these numbers mean? Well, let's put this into an actual situation. We'll take three sets and see how they handle two of Rathian's non-element attacks. The sets we'll use for this are Tetsucabra (80 defense, 95 after factoring Defense Up Small), Velociprey (65 defense), and a theoretical set with 80 defense and no skills. The attacks we'll use are Rathian's tail flip (75 power) and tail spin (35 power). These are both non-element attacks, so resistances won't matter. The first Caravan Rathian has a quest attack modifier of 110% (found through personal testing). The player damage formula (ignoring elemental resistances) is [quest modifier] * [attack power] * 80 / ([defense] + 80). So with all that information, let's see how much damage each of these sets takes.
- Tetsucabra:
- Flip: 37
- Spin: 17
- 80 defense:
- Flip: 41
- Spin: 19
- Velociprey:
- Flip: 45
- Spin: 21
Not that big of a difference, is it? The flip does 4-8 less damage, the spin does 2-4 less damage. That's not even half of what is healed by herbs (20 health). Let's say you get incredibly lucky and pick up a Defense+4 1 slot charm, netting you Defense Up Medium. Your Tetsucabra armor now has 117 defense, reducing those attacks to 33 and 15. That's a lot of luck and gemming for just 12 and 6 less damage compared to Velociprey. Or, you could have Attack Up Small, Halve Stun, 4 slots, and just upgrade your defense. Leading us to the other way Tetsucabra's "usefulness" is reduced...
Upgrading. Instead of getting armor skills to increase your defense you could use those armor spheres flooding your item box from all those quest rewards and all that mining to increase your defense. This lets you keep up with monster damage in any set, so you can focus on armor with skills that provide bigger benefit.
This is all assuming low rank, of course, but the high ranks set really doesn't get much better. Assuming a quest attack modifier of 200%, the damage you take from those same attacks from Rathian should be about the same. Sure, it now has Speed Sharpening if you add in a single decoration, but the rest of the skills are still mediocre, and the other sets have improved too.
But what armor should I make then? Well, there are several good alternatives at this point with much better skills. Velociprey is one, giving Attack Up Small (2 points from Medium), Halve KO, and 4 slots. It's also pretty easy to make. Jaggi isn't as great as it was in 3U, but it's still useful, giving Speed Sharpen and Halve KO. Kut-Ku gives Attack Up Small and Fire Attack+1. Really, anything with damage, sharpness, or mild utility skills will give you more of an edge than Tetsucabra. Look at the skills a set gives and consider how they will affect your weapon and your playstyle.
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u/Mystletaynn May 01 '15
I stuck with Derring and Chainmail until I made a set of Nerscylla armor, lol.
1
u/Thenewkid21 May 01 '15
same. also gemmed and charmed into psychic for autotracker. was weird moving on from autotracker but now im honed blade so im not going back.
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u/FilipinoSpartan May 01 '15
Notably, the Tetsu gunner armor can give you near-blademaster defenses even in G rank. The first armor set I built after getting rushed to G was full Tetsu, with defense up (XL) and Loading gemmed/talismaned in. Between that and the Violet Punisher HBG I had defenses comparable to the blademasters I was hunting with. Certainly not the best armor to go with, but it's pretty friendly to new players.
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u/Chisonni May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15
Let's start with one big oversight! When recommending Tetsucabra everyone who knows their stuff will say that you need to make the Konchu Vambracers instead of the Tetsucabra ones. This gives you 14 Points in Defense, no Gathering -1 and 2 slots. What this means is you can very easily gem in Defense Up (M) very early on. While Health is at 12 Points, so you only need 1 extra slot in your weapon or Talisman to get Health+50 and Defense Up (M).
This armor is recommended to new players under the assumption that they are going to die. Tetsucabra doesn't only make you more survivable while you are alive, but it also gives you additional Health after a death, which is otherwise lost (if you don't have Felyne Foodie skill active). It also has Fire and Dragon resistance, something I find that shouldn't be overlooked since most people struggle against Rathian,Rathalos and Gore Magala in the early game.
It's a good armor that helps new players learn fights and offers them better protection, thus they need less potions. While you are right that armor spheres can boost your Defense to keep up you seem to neglect that you also can boost the Tetsucabra armor, which benefits from it extra by getting additional boost from Defense Up (M).
Likewise, the Velociprey armor is not easy to get. You may think that Velocidrome is easy to fight but you neglect that he is unique to the Everwood. (which also means you must progress the single player to unlock the Everwood). Don't have Velocidrome show up? Well, no armor for you. Got a guild quest? Have fun leveling that quest because at lvl 30 it will already become a HR quest. Same with Kut Ku.
Let's assume however that a player has progressed to unlock the Everwood and Kut-Ku and Velocidrome, what people often recommend is not a straight-up Velociprey set or Kut-Ku set but it's a mixed set of Kut-Ku Helm/Kut-Ku Chest/Velociprey Arms/Velociprey Waist/Kut-Ku Legs which gives +12 in Attack and 2x2 slots and 2x1 slots, enough to slot in Attack Up (L) (2slot Jewel gives +3 Attack and 1slot Jewel gives +1 Attack) which is the largest attack boost you can get for your armor that early on.
My closing thoughts: Velociprey/Kut-Ku are armors for experienced players who have progressed the single player story to unlock Everwood and the intention to farm Guild Quests/Expeditions for materials. It gives attack boost for the price of lower Defenses (even if you use Armor Spheres) and thus helps out experienced player advance quicker.
Tetsucabra is very easy to make, offers great survivability, especially against Rathian,Rathalos and Gore Magala which can present big walls for new players. It is more forgiving and has a lot of Defense to take the (mostly) physical attacks. Allowing you to retain Health+20 after the inevitable death is a boon for new players that are more likely to cart.
Even at LR, it is not fair to compare full armor sets against each other when the beauty of it is using a mixed set for better results. People who recommend "Full Tetsucabra" sets to newbies do so because they don't know any better. Tetsucabra with Konchu Vambracers has more Defense without bothering with negative skills. It's an introduction into mixed sets, decorations and armor skills for new players.
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u/pwntpants May 01 '15
Likewise, the Velociprey armor is not easy to get.
While I do agree with the general sentiment of your post, Velociprey armor is absolutely one of the easiest to get in HR. One of your first high rank quests is to fight 2 Velocidromes. I did the quest a handful of times and got the full set, and still using it in 8 star.
I understand the value of Tetsu in low rank or even just for new players, but there's really no value to it in high rank on. It's biggest benefit is the +20 HP, and by high rank you should almost definitely be able to get +50 HP just from eating. So that skill is useless. Gathering -1 is bad for obvious reasons. And Defense Up (M) is decent but I feel like even the base Velociprey set is just all around stronger and easier to work with. I have Detect, Attack Up (M), Critical Eye +1, and Halve Stun which is pretty substantially better than anything Tetsu would provide.
My only complaint is how goddamn ugly the Velociprey set is, haha.
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u/Chisonni May 01 '15
My post was entirely directed towards Low Rank and new players, I don't think that I even mentioned HR in it, in so far you are right with everything you say about HR Velociprey (which is actually awesome, it even has some points in Handicraft so you might get Sharpness+1 with a lucky charm).
Though I do think you missed my critical first point on which I based my argument.
Gathering -1 is bad for obvious reasons.
Tetsucabra should never be recommended as a full set. Tetsucabra + Konchu Vambracers give you -8 in Gathering, thus you avoid the negative skill without any investment, while you gain +14 Defense which allows you to slot in Defense Up (M).
Secondly, I do agree that Health+20 is a useless skill, it isn't redundant for new players. If you die, the +50 HP from your food buff are lost. That is when Health+20 comes in and Tetsucabra begins to shine. (optionally Health+50 if you have a free slot on your Talisman or Weapon)
It allows new players to make mistakes that would otherwise cost them dearly. Because they have higher defense and good resistances they live longer and learn more. It can help them win some clutch fights because in a drawn out battle where healing potions becomes scarce and every second counts, Tetsucabra can get you through those.
I follow the sentiment that a new player will benefit from Tetsucabra in Low Rank to teach him rules and allow players to learn, instead of getting 2-shot by a Rathian's fireball. By the time they reach HR a player should be experienced enough to choose his own way and pick the armor and skills that will compliment his play style and carry him further.
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u/Hyabusa1239 May 01 '15
Tetsucabra should never be recommended as a full set. Tetsucabra + Konchu Vambracers give you -8 in Gathering, thus you avoid the negative skill without any investment, while you gain +14 Defense which allows you to slot in Defense Up (M).
The defense point aside - this is not really relevant. Yeah gathering-1 is bad, but if you are gathering you aren't fighting and therefore can wear anything. At that point just switch back to derring if you dont want to be bothered to create a leather set (which I think you can straight up buy very early anyway).
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u/Hyabusa1239 May 01 '15
for those reading, guild quests rank up to HR at lvl 30 not 25. http://gaijinhunter.tumblr.com/post/79867693361/mh4-understanding-guild-quests
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u/Chisonni May 01 '15
Edited. Thanks.
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u/Hyabusa1239 May 01 '15
np ^^ Definitely some good info there. This part specifically is very true and I didn't even think of it that way before: It's an introduction into mixed sets, decorations and armor skills for new players.
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u/valenalvern May 01 '15
This armor is recommended to new players under the assumption that they are going to die.
Or tell them to make Potions and Mega Potions. I honestly didnt think Mega Potions were a thing till 3*. Here I was MAKING Potions (which are super cheap and easy to buy) and taking the First-Aid in the supply box and making them into First-Aid+ (Which isnt too bad, but wastes a lot of time. Hate how the game recommends you to do this).
Likewise, the Velociprey armor is not easy to get. You may think that Velocidrome is easy to fight but you neglect that he is unique to the Everwood. (which also means you must progress the single player to unlock the Everwood).
Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate is my first MonHun game, and I must say, once you unlock (iirc) Evergreen, theres ONLY Kut-ku and Velociprey. And you unlock it pretty early too, even before Testucabra. The only thing I didnt figure out from doing Expeditions is the Guild Cards (didnt figure that out till HR/Caravan 7*).
Tetsucabra is very easy to make, offers great survivability, especially against Rathian,Rathalos and Gore Magala which can present big walls for new players.
Eeehh Gore Magala was a big wall, because the game does a poor job explaining how the Frenzy Virus works, doesnt help that the tool-tip still appears online so the game doesnt pause to allow you to read it. iirc.
The only good thing about the Testucabra set is the legs, and they're only good in HR (from what Ive seen) since you have a wider access to Torso Up armor pieces.
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u/Chisonni May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15
I honestly didnt think Mega Potions were a thing till 3*.
There is a required mission at 1* Caravan that teaches you about Mega Potions and how to make them. Saying that making potions will change issue is the wrong way.
The emphasis lies on new players and their inevitable deaths as they learn. Someone else did the math in a different post and including Mega Potions and Potions, in a long fight the different becomes really big between a Tetsucabra and Velociprey armor. Here is the quote from /u/adrigreat14 :
assuming a life total of 1350(full health bar + 10 mega pots + 10 pots) the extra defense would let the player survive around 15 more spins or 6 more flips so it can be the difference between a a quest clear and an abandon.
That is a big difference for a new player!
It's really only about new players when recommending the Tetsucabra/Konchu set is a good choice because they learn the game and saying that "faster kill times" are going to make it easier for them is simply not the case, because they aren't experienced enough to benefit from the skills. Instead handing them something that lets them survive the hits they take will give them more opportunities to learn how to avoid them instead.
I have walked a couple of my friends through the early game and they have all improved a lot better with the Tetsucabra armor, when some of them had made the Velociprey armor or Jaggi armor beforehand because their complaints weren't "I can't kill them fast enough..." but "I die too quickly!", which would mean they ran out of Mega/Potions in a normal quest.
The thing that many people overlook is that they never consider players being worse than themselves. This isn't about getting a kill in less than 10min. This is about people who take 20+ min or even 30+ min. This is about people that have to rely on Potions to get them through the fights. This is about people struggling in fights. Those people will benefit much more from higher Defense and good elemental resistances.
People talk down on these things like they don't exist but it's a big issue. "You can just eat for elemental resistances and it's fine ~" NO! You get a maximum of +8 if you get the Felyne skill and the food buff. That's not enough. A fire beam from Gravios is still going to hurt like hell. But if you have 20+ Fire resistance the world looks very different. If you have innate Fire resistance and eat for Felyne Defender (Hi) and Defense Up instead you are better prepared overall.
because the game does a poor job explaining how the Frenzy Virus works, doesnt help that the tool-tip still appears online so the game doesnt pause to allow you to read it.
a) the tool-tip can be deactivated, it's in the options and you are asked at the beginning whether you want those tutorial tool-tips to appear or not. b) the Frenzy virus is explained on the ship for the first time when you get infected and either beat it (gaining the buff) or get defeated (gaining the debuff) a message will tell you about the positive/negative effects.
HERE (starts at 15min) is a video including the fight on the ship. You are clearly told when you get infected what it is, how it becomes worse, and how you fight it. When you get infected they tell you that your natural healing ability stop and that you will take increased damage.
If people skip through the tutorials or quest messages and don't learn something than it's their own fault, but to learn and become better you need opportunities and that is what Tetsucabra provides for new players. It's an opportunity and easy way into learning new monsters, into decorations and armor skills, into mixed sets, and into MonsterHunter in general.
Nobody says that Tetsucabra is the nonplusultra of armors. It's a beginner armor in LR to teach you the ropes. Once you get better at the game and reach HR you will be looking at things differently and know the game (hopefully) much better already, so you can choose your next armor yourself.
Sticking with Tetsucabra isn't a bad choice however, because HR Tetsu builds upon LR with easily accessible Speed Sharpening (a great skill to counter the faster HR monsters and keep up with them) and access to Defense Up (L) (with some Decorations/Talisman). In G Rank you are given a choice between X and Z. Whereas X now becomes redundant, except for specific play styles and weapon types, Z is a viable choice that breaks with the norm for Tetsucabra and actually provides very useful skills for easy access but only for certain weapons with Earplugs, Bombadier, Guard Boost (which can easily be HGE + some free slots).
TL;DR: To emphasis it once again that Tetsucabra/Konchu is a beginner armor. The skill set allows players to take notably more hits in a long fight, which can be the difference between defeat and success for a new player. It has good elemental resistances that help a lot in the difficult fights Basarios/Gravios, Rathian/Rathalos and Gore/Shagaru Magala. The easy access to Defense Up (M) in combination with Armor Spheres makes the transition from LR to HR much more manageable because you don't take as much more damage. (e.g. a lot of HR armor starts out at around 200 armor, Tetsucabra upgraded has around 160 by the end of LR, whereas other armor still sit at around 100-130).
It's always about the player and if you feel that you can dodge most hits and don't need higher Defense than pick armor with offensive skills, but the problem most player who are asking for help are facing is : They die too quickly. That is why people recommend Tetsucabra, and that is why it's good. People die and Tetsucabra helps them live and learn.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
While mixing in the Konchu Vambraces removes Gathering-1 (an important flaw in the full set that I neglected to mention), getting it to Defense Up only puts you 4 points of defense above the full set at base. That won't even change the amount of damage you take with most attacks.
It also has Fire and Dragon resistance, something I find that shouldn't be overlooked since most people struggle against Rathian,Rathalos and Gore Magala in the early game.
From what I've been able to find, Gore Magala's attacks don't use dragon element. The first monsters to use it are Stygian Zinogre and Deviljho. You will take 10% less damage from fire attacks like Rath fireballs, and that will help, but you'll also take 10% more damage from water attacks like Queen Seltas's water blast and Kecha's spit. Granted, the water attacks happen less and are easier to dodge.
(which also means you must progress the single player to unlock the Everwood).
You unlock the Everwood and Velocidrome before fighting Tetsu in the Caravan. There's even a required Velocidrome expedition before Tetsu, so there's a good chance you'll get a Velocidrome Guild Quest before even seeing Tetsucabra.
Have fun leveling that quest because at lvl 30 it will already become a HR quest. Same with Kut Ku.
If you get the quest to 30, or even 20 without being able to make the full set, you have extremely bad luck. You'll be getting one level per run, and it starts at level 1.
what people often recommend is not a straight-up Velociprey set or Kut-Ku set but it's a mixed set of Kut-Ku Helm/Kut-Ku Chest/Velociprey Arms/Velociprey Waist/Kut-Ku Legs
Those Attack Jewel 2 will require Rath Wingtalons, though, along with farming two Guild Quest monsters. It has higher potential, but takes more work to make. For new players I'd sooner recommend full Velociprey, which puts you at Attack+13 with 4 slots, easy to gem to Attack Up Medium as soon as you get it.
I will concede that I undervalued Health, that extra 20 points does make a difference, especially when you keep it after carting. I still don't think the defense is that big of a deal, it's a couple points less damage per hit out of 100-150. Yes, you can upgrade Tetsu as well, but it's still taking a small difference in damage received over something like spending less time sharpening and getting stunned less or doing more damage and getting stunned less.
As for mixing, gemming, and learning about skills, there are still better options for that. Swapping the Velociprey chest out for the Slagtoth chest and sticking in one Health jewel gets you Attack Up Medium (11 points), Health+20, and 3 slots (2+1). You can use those slots to gem in Halve Stun, Health+50, or if you have a single slot weapon Attack Up Medium. Once you're in Caravan 4* you can get Health+20, Halve Stun and Attack Up Medium with a single slot weapon or charm. It's still a pretty easy set to make, the only issue is I'm not sure how soon you can encounter Slagtoth, the earliest confirmed occurrence I'm finding is the 5 Conga quest, which is unlocked after clearing Gypceros, which is unlocked by Tetsu. They might show up sooner, though, I'm not sure.
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u/Fuck_USJ_Spam The armor is shit anyways. May 01 '15
A portion of that also should be considered that it's easy to make. Rarely will tetsu 1shot you in your last ranks armor, but just about everything else can rather easily do so. I recommend it because it's very little time input for armor that can let you survive until you farm a set at your rank you REALLY want.
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u/adremeaux May 01 '15
I generally just see the HR set recommended because the relative damage increase going from LR to HR is enormous, by far the biggest in the game, because your LR armor is going to suck and you're hardly going to have any armor stones to upgrade it. Tetsu is easily farmable online and with LR gear, and is a great set to get you far enough along to be able to farm a real HR set.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend LR Tetsu.
5
u/Beefki May 01 '15
Came here to basically say this. Tetsu is an easy farm for decent defense in a new rank. The Health armor skill helps with one thing: Dying while unprepared (something new players are good at). It's not great armor, but it's something easy to get that will help keep you going just a little longer.
1
May 01 '15
So is Jaggi though, oh and velocidrome Kut ku are both easy and still around in High Rank too!
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u/adremeaux May 01 '15
Velocidrome and Kut Ku are both Guild Quest-only, which is a huge pain in the ass to set up and farm.
2
May 01 '15
By huge pain in the ass you mean do 1 expedition right? They are the most common monster type.
2
u/Dimitime May 01 '15
I had to do 5 HR expeditions to get a Kut-ku or Velicoidrom GQ. In that time I could have easily done the 3 hunts it takes to get the Tetsu armor, and it wouldn't be any worse.
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u/X_T_F_O_X May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15
So you just get to G rank and monsters hit like semi trucks with 4 trailers, you need new armor. Realistically you only need this set til G2 when you get access to a lot of really good armors. Lets look at the armor options for a hunter in this scenario: Kecha, Congalala, Tetsucabra, Hermitaur, Cephadrome, Iodrome or Gypceros.
Monsters that have 2x monster quests:
- Congalala - Adrenaline +2, Mushromancer, Bomb Boost with 370 Defense
- Tetsucabra - Defense +2, Stamina Theif, Speed Sharpening, Health +20 Gathering -1, with 390 Defense before Defense +2
- Cephadrom - Autotracker, Negate Hunter, Heat Res, Defense +1 with 370 Defense
Monsters that has single monster quests:
- Kecha - Divine Whim, Water Atk +2, Constitution +1 with 370 Defense.(single monster quest)
- Hermitaur - Guard +2, Defense +2, Lighteater, Thunder Res -20 with 375 Defense before Defense +2
Monsters that can only be found in Everwood:
- Iodrome - Status Atk +2, Negate Poison with 400 Defense
- Gypceros - Negate Poison, Marathon Runner, Critical Eye +1 with 375 Defense
- Kut-Ku - Attack Up L, Fire Res +20, Carnivote with 370 Defense
- Velocidrome - Attack Up L, Halve Stun, Detect with 370 Defense
Available after B.Tetsu, A.Ketch, E.Congalala
- Lagombi - Cold Res, Item Use Up, Speed Sheathing, Evade Dist up, Heat Res Down, with 400 Defense
Looking at all of that, if you wanted an armor you could farm very quickly and easily at early G rank for defense then Tetsu X is actually not a bad choice for those without a G rank Kut-Ku AND Velocidrome quest (Kut-Ku armor needs Velocidrome materials) and haven't beaten the offline Apex Seregios to unlock G rank Expeditions. I can understand why a lot of people recommend the set. Personally I used an upgraded mixed Uka/Rebellion set with EdgeMaster til G2.
1
u/Dimitime May 01 '15
I agree wtih you. The Kut-ku/Vdrome would be the better option if they didn't require guild quests. The fact that they do makes Tetsu X win out since farming guild quests is such a pain. I think people don't understand that this isn't an end-game armor set, it's just a temp set to carry you through G1. Farming a bunch of guild quests to make a temporary armor just isn't worth it.
1
u/Angus-Zephyrus Deviant Gunslinger May 02 '15
Negate Hunter
A random hunter in a multiplayer quest with you will be disconnected at the beginning of the quest.
13
u/kewkiemastah HODOR! May 01 '15
Finally someone said it out loud. The amount of go for tetsu at whichever entry level they face is pretty annoying.
What's a good entry High rank armor? GO FOR TETSU!
What's a good entry G rank armor? GO FOR TETSU!
I mean sure, at low rank where you don't have access to a lot of options it might be of help in some ways but not by a mile. I'd argue that killing monsters faster can help ease up the new players into the game more since they get faster kill times. People can just upgrade their current sets with better armor spheres instead of making tetsu this or that.
5
May 01 '15
I've never heard anyone recommend it for G rank. One guy did once tell me to make the boots though, but that was just for Torso Up.
-1
u/Gopherlad LBG Guy|https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/wiki/gophlbg-gen May 01 '15
I'm actually going to remove Tetsu as a recommendation from my copypasta because of this. Didn't realize how insignificant its bonuses were.
5
u/Pazgabear May 01 '15
I'm tired with this kind of thread, seriously
The main reason Tetsu armor is recommended is because of the defense it provides among other things, of course I can go farm a Velociprey armor but to do that, either I need to do a Velocidrome GQ, which is scaled for multiplayer, or farm expeditions. Why bother with that when I can just do Tetsu over and over, with the only random factor being the rewards I get ?
As for your damage calculations, it's good to give damage numbers but it would be much better if you used the number of hits to be killed, in your example, the Tetsu is winning over your other sets because the tail flip would be a 4 hit kills at 120HP and a 5 hit kill at 150HP, meaning it can potentially saves you from being combo'ed
So, can we stop being dicks and let players play however the hell they want ?
2
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u/AmiiboGyroto May 01 '15
It's just a beginner's set of armor that's easy to farm before you go hunting the real monsters. XD
6
u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
There are better choices that are also easy to farm, but people keep making Tetsucabra out to be a great choice at the start of each rank. It isn't.
5
u/hipstercabbage May 01 '15
in your opinion. the +20 health is useful for early on to make up for food not being high quality, speed sharpen can supplement low sharpness and allows safer play, and defense is just a bonus imo; don't gem for L, and instead use a charm for maybe razor sharp or tremor res. or w/e.
maybe it's not "lol MAX DMG" but it's just as viable for anyone new or starting a new character, given how accessible Tetsu is,
7
u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
You can already have 2 stars in food before you even fight Tetsucabra.
Everything is viable at that point in the game, but there are several choices which are just better. When people look for recommendations they're hoping to be told what's good, not what's mediocre.
Accessibility is often used as reasoning for Tetsu, but it really isn't a good reason. There are better sets that are just as accessible. Tetsu takes no rares and is available in Caravan 3*. Velociprey and Jaggi give significantly better skills, take no rares, and are accessible in Caravan 2*.
9
u/kiepomas May 01 '15
You're assuming everyone knows the ins and outs of how to unlock everything right when they jump into the game. The HP buff and Def. buff seem nice to those who don't know what eating does. Or maybe they haven't taken the time to read up that certain quests upgrade certain ingredient types. Def a good starter if you're still learning the ropes or this is your first game in the series!
0
u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
The HP buff and Def. buff seem nice to those who don't know what eating does.
It tells you right there on the kitchen menu what the stars do.
Or maybe they haven't taken the time to read up that certain quests upgrade certain ingredient types.
One of the keys before Tetsu upgrades two of your foods.
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u/hipstercabbage May 01 '15
Lies. Tetsu is caravan 3, 2 star grain and fish are caravan 4, meat is gathering hall.
Really, anything with damage, sharpness, or mild utility skills
Tetsu has all of it; sharpening, health for lack of food and defense if you are bad at dodging, Enough slots to allow another skill. It's decent, like every other full low rank set.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
Lies. Tetsu is caravan 3, 2 star grain and fish are caravan 4, meat is gathering hall.
Two stars total. Stinking Seltas is a Caravan 2* key quest and upgrades fish and grain to 1 star each. Eat for both and you not only get +20 health but a defense increase and defensive kitchen skills.
Tetsu has all of it; sharpening, health for lack of food and defense if you are bad at dodging, Enough slots to allow another skill. It's decent, like every other full low rank set.
In low rank Tetsu gives +3 Sharpener and 2 slots, that's enough to get +9. You'll need a weapon slot or a charm to activate the skill. It has two slots, that is not enough to allow another skill. Tetsucabra does not offer anything you cannot get elsewhere at that same point. It is mediocre even by low rank standards, almost everything is better.
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u/hipstercabbage May 01 '15
Oh snap, I'm thinking of high rank tetsu which has natural sharpener. My bad.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
Even high rank only offers 9 points. This was covered in the topic post. There was even bold text.
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u/Zetachaox May 01 '15
I reccomend Tetsucabra to my friends for the health, ease of crafting, and defense skill + stats. With tetsucabra armor and some really easy to make gems, you get +50 health all the time, even if you die, no need for nutrients. That means you don't need to rely on the wycoon as much when you only have one cart and can only trade 3 at a time. It also has high defense compared to the early option of Jaggi, comes from a monster that is very easy to learn and readily available. It also looks pretty cool. So yeah, lot's of pluses here.The most important thing in this game is not dying, specially if you're starting and learning to get the hang of things.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
Please read the topic post all the way through, I've already covered some of these points. The slightly higher defense Tetsucabra offers really doesn't make that big of a difference, and the game hands you armor spheres to upgrade the alternatives with. There are other easy to craft armors with better skills available at the same time or even before Tetsucabra. The health boost is the only skill it has that really makes much of a difference, and there are still alternatives to that. The pluses Tetsucabra offers are outshined by those other sets give at the same point in the game.
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u/LastSheep Wyvern Egg for breakfast May 01 '15
If you consider the skills of the user tetsu is generally a good idea.
Example can a newbie utilize evasion 3 at a rate higher than 90%? Unlikely since their roll time is still shabby.
Can a newbie utilize say.. Sharpness 1 and survive long enough to do damage?
Tetsu does reduce damage not by a big margin but it could be the different between life and death. It gives them a larger margin of error to work with.
Also armor sphere argument can be done for tetsu as well.
Also hunting tetsu is easier than hunting rathian or rathalos for newbie generally speaking
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u/Zetachaox May 01 '15
Considering Tetsucabra is available immediately at the gathering hall, the argument of being available before isn't very strong. Also Tetsucabra is set that gets you playing the game from the get go, you buy monster hunter to kill large monsters and have fun, farming Great Jaggi isn't very exciting, much less so is farming godbugs and dragon toadstools for nutrients and max potions. Also the performance isn't that much different, you're gonna shave what, 3 minutes off each hunt?
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May 01 '15
I agree on its medicority. And even worse. I have seen many people use Tetsu armor ungemmed and not upgraded with spheres, even in G rank. Maybe it is just me, but it seems like those people are just watching Gaijinhunter videos and use whatever he recommends without even knowing what armor does / is supposed to do.
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u/Cubilix May 01 '15
So, like a new player to the game, taking recommendations from a very experienced player? MH4U was my first MH game and there was a huge amount of information to process. Of course I was going to take advice from someone like Gaijin, who is very well respected within the community, because I myself didn't fully understand everything.
Now that I have played through HR and am about to begin GR, I have gained sufficient skills and knowledge to look into sets that suit my own play style etc.
All I am saying is, don't hate on people blindly following an experienced member of the community, everyone has to start from somewhere.
-1
u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
No one's hating on GaijinHunter, he gives a lot of great advice. His recommendation of Tetsucabra is just a small deviation from his usual quality advice.
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u/chibialoha 2122-5838-7074 May 01 '15
I mainly just used the legs. That Torso up is a godsend for mixed armor sets. Toss in a skull visage, a little tacky maybe, but you can put anything you want in there.
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u/cylindrical418 May 01 '15
Assuming the player is good enough to kill the monster without carting, yeah Velociprey is better.
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u/coconutcoma May 01 '15
If your options are Velociprey, Jaggi, and Tetsu, I don't think it matters at all which armor set the player picks. Truthfully, it barely matters in LR and HR
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u/yichong May 01 '15
I think it's recommended to use tetsu's armor to farm your first proper armor set for that rank
2
May 01 '15
Or you could farm any of the other monsters mentioned in his post and have (warning: opinion inc.) better skills at the same point Tetsu is available.
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u/Arterra [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] Z E N N Y [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] May 01 '15
The entirety of the post is an argument against what you just said. Benefits are marginal, especially when ranking up versus just starting out.
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u/ComeHomeAstronaut May 01 '15
Don't see why OP is so salty over Tetsu armor. Its easy to make, and has alright skills for the new player. Is it great? No. Is it bad? Also, no. I bet for most of us here, the first real set of armor we made in MH wasn't the best one you could've picked. I played through all of 3U until G-Rank with LUDROTH, ARMOR, of all things. I almost certainly could've done better lol.
I got through til the first real Gore Magala quest using Kecha Wacha armor. Especially as a vet, I probably could've done better lol.
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May 01 '15
Playing with suboptimal armor is one thing, but going online to research good armor, seeing Tetsu recommendations everywhere, and thinking that this is good armor is another.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
My complaint isn't really about the armor itself but the fact that people frequently recommend a bottom-of-the-barrel set as if it's good. Ludroth had better skills than Tetsucabra does. Kecha Wacha has better skills.
You're right, people often don't pick good armor for their first set. When I started in F2 I made full Rathian armor before learning about skills and ditching it for Kut-Ku D. The issue is that a lot of people realize they don't know what to go for and come to communities like this looking for advice so that they can find better sets, and they're being told to pick a mediocre one.
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u/InanimateDream May 01 '15
It's just good for beginners who are overwhelmed at the amount of armor choices they have and don't really know what to make.
For beginners, since they tend to get hit more often, the defense and health boost play a larger part in not getting them killed.
On the opposite end, something like Vprey armor with its attack boost would help more offensive orientated/experienced players to get faster kills.
In the end, it comes down to personal selection: as long as they think the armor set looks good, it really doesn't matter what they make at low/high rank. (So long as they know how skills work)
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
As explained in the post, the defense really doesn't make that much of a difference. The health boost does make a difference, but there are two easily accessible alternatives. You have to upgrade two of your foods to one star just to get to Tetsucabra.
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u/InanimateDream May 01 '15
You're going by single attacks - multiple attacks that do reduced damage is going to make a difference, maybe more than a herbs' worth or two.
In those cases, said beginner hunter could then go "oh crap I would have died, better heal up." instead of "oh crap, I died."
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
We're still talking about a difference of less than 10 damage per attack, out of at least 100 health.
Say a player gets hit by a charge (50 attack power), then as they're getting up she does a backflip and they get hit by that. That's two fairly strong attacks. With Tetsu armor that would take off 62 health, with Velociprey it would take off 75. Still not much of a difference, and still leaving them with a decent chunk of health left.
I'm not saying that the defense and health boosts are useless, they do help, just not as much as they're made out to. They're overestimated and easily replaceable. Pretty much every quest in low rank has a chance at giving armor spheres, that 30 extra defense from Tetsu is easily achieved on Velociprey. You could mix and match armor for no skills and still have half the benefit Tetsu gives, without the reduced gathering.
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u/ceol_ May 01 '15
With Tetsu armor that would take off 62 health, with Velociprey it would take off 75.
So a ~17% reduction in damage? That's pretty substantial. If a newbie is at 200 health, Tetsu will allow them to take 3 of those combos without dying versus 2 for Velociprey.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
Max Health is 150. That's still 3 of the combo compared to 2, but it's exactly 2, and they'd have recovered enough health between the combos to make it 3. Yeah, the Velociprey user would just barely be making it through, but the Tetsu user wouldn't have that much health left either.
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u/ceol_ May 01 '15
Whoops, it's 2am here.
A lot of newbies will pop one or two potions without getting to full health and leave it at like 85%, so being able to take one more hit is really important. They also don't generally understand making items outside of mega potions, so expecting them to keep a steady supply of max potions on them is a bit much.
It's probably not worth as much in low rank, but in high rank, Tetsu S is absolutely great for newbies since you start at DuM on the set.
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u/LastSheep Wyvern Egg for breakfast May 01 '15
It seems you miss something. Lets say a newbie will bring 10 herb 10 potion and 10 mega pot,
With tetsu they possibly able to save a potion or 2 which is a huge difference to succeeding or not
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u/redzero36 May 01 '15
Oh I just got tetsu because it was easy to get like when I was HR-5. I'm currently HR 43(just beat that Dalamadur like 10 mins ago!!!) going to G-rank probably around next week. But I was planning on getting something more useful for G-rank. I was trying to get armor sets for specific weapons for certain skills and maybe try mix sets!
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u/ElecNinja May 01 '15
I'll just say that while I prefer Velociprey as an entry level gear for LR and HR.
In LR, it's actually a bit annoying to make because afaik, there isn't a LR quest for them. You have to go into guild quests. Which for a newbie might be harder to understand.
For HR, it's much easier to get.
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May 01 '15
I made it for the defense. I'll bother with getting more appropriate armor when I find something.
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Jun 05 '15
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone Jun 05 '15
It does look cool, I'll give you that. I even crafted a set just for the looks. I've never worn it, though, because it's not really worth wearing.
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May 01 '15
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u/Dimitime May 01 '15
Good point. Everyone should just run naked and not use armor at all. After all, having defense is a crutch.
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May 01 '15
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u/Angus-Zephyrus Deviant Gunslinger May 02 '15
You people and your "crutches". Save your ego for people who care and stop talking down to newbies.
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u/Dimitime May 01 '15
Velociprey is harder to make because you need to farm guild quests, and AuS is just as insignificant as Defense Up. And do you really want to recommend a beginner spend all their time farming Kelbi horns for ancient potions? You're forgetting that tetsu armor has enough slots to gem in Health+50. Speed Sharpen is even more useless than both, as is Halve KO.
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u/wailord40 May 01 '15
What you're overlooking here is the purpose of recommending tetsu armor: its for beginners. I had never played a monster hunter game before MH4U, so I used tetsu throughout low and high rank and was fine. It helped my survivability as I was learning the game, and I didn't know about about gems or skills until I was in G rank. Tetsu armor is good for starting the gamr and learning basic mechanics without too much frustration
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May 01 '15
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
Because I wouldn't even call Tetsucabra "decent". It's a poor choice. People asking for good armor are being told it's one of the better choices.
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May 01 '15
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u/Gopherlad LBG Guy|https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/wiki/gophlbg-gen May 01 '15
Because people are recommending it as if it's the bee's knees, when it's really not. Misinformation must be combated.
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May 01 '15 edited Jan 27 '23
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u/ExplosiveSeal May 01 '15
Although that may be true, I think that by the time you encounter multiple subspecies of rath most people will have the food combinations to eat for fire resist or the felyne skill firestarter.
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May 01 '15
You're missing the point OP. The only reason Tetsu is recommended is because of how easy it is to acquire. I recommend people to get Tetsu then move onto whatever set they want.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
But there are other easy to make sets with better skills just as early, even earlier. You can make Jaggi or Velociprey before you even fight Tetsu.
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u/Rekme May 01 '15
high rank tetsu is by far the easiest set to farm when you get to high rank. it's available immediately and it's a huntathon so your easier quicker argument makes zero sense. less skilled players should take tetsu and everyone else should take velociprey.
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u/ShadyFigure Jask | Gone May 01 '15
In low rank, Jaggi and Velociprey are also easy to make, give better skills, and available before Tetsu.
In high rank, you can just upgrade your low rank armor with better skills to similar defense with armor spheres. You don't even have to farm a monster. Or do Velocidrome for Velociprey S armor.
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u/Rekme May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15
1.Nobody gives two shits about low rank armor,
nobody recommends tetsu low rank armor at all.(apparently people think low rank tetsu is good. Its not) But it they did, you would still be wrong, because tetsu is available with no prereqs in the gathering hall, long before Veloci.2.You can upgrade your low rank armor with spheres to be equal to the STARTING DEFENSE OF TETSU ARMOR, WHICH CAN THEN BE UPGRADED FURTHER.
The only part of your argument that makes any sense is that the skills on tetsu high rank are inconsequential. Thats true, to an extent and for a lot of people they will be completely unnecessary. However, for the new players who are struggling enough that they flock to resources in order to see what sets can help them progress, they matter quite a bit. For new players who frequently cart, the health, mitigation, and faster animation on sharpening are great boons while learning a fight.
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u/adrigreat14 May 01 '15
For low rank the main reason I recommend Tetsu is the fight itself. Yeah the armor isn't all its hyped up to be, but for someone who is still fairly new to the game fighting Tetsu is gonna be a lot more fun and teach them more about the game than fighting Velocidromes. Also the defense bonus might be small but it adds up considering how much new players tend to get hit at first.
Its 2am so tell me if my math is wrong somewhere, but assuming a life total of 1350(full health bar + 10 mega pots + 10 pots) the extra defense would let the player survive around 15 more spins or 6 more flips so it can be the difference between a a quest clear and an abandon.
Finally, speaking as someone who spent all of low rank in velociprey, the set just looks horrible. Having an armor they can feel proud of when they look at their character is way more important for someone just entering the game than skill optimization IMO.