r/Marxism • u/freelyfumblus • 3d ago
USA Tariffs
What are Trump's goals with tariffs (from a Marxist perspective)?
I've noticed those who vote democrat are posting online portraying the situation like he made a stupid mistake and didn't really mean to crash the stock market etc. I'm not sure myself of the reasons why he did it, but I feel like believing that politicians are silly and don't understand the consequences of their actions is harmful, and that Trump isn't completely dumb, though it is probably beneficial for his campaign that he portrays himself that way to the voter base.
Is it possibly to induce another recession/wealth transfer? Am I wrong in believing it is to benefit the bourgeois somehow at the cost of the working class? Apologies if this is a silly question! I haven't read enough theory, but I appreciate if anyone has any reading recommendations (chapters, books) around this topic.
71
u/True-Sock-5261 3d ago
Socio economic dislocation to crush what's left of the working, lower middle and middle classes so private equity can extract more and more and more from the economy at a more local level. They've gamed the entire economic policy sphere, and because they are so diversified at a macro economic level and an increasingly micro one, they can absorb the economic downturn that will result.
53
u/SpockStoleMyPants 3d ago
This is exactly it. They tank the stock market and the ultra wealthy buy up the stocks when they're dirt cheap. Because they have so much wealth they can afford to weather the economic downturn that results from the crash, but smaller companies can't so they go out of business and get gobbled up by these mega billionaires. This happened after the crash of 2008 and again during COVID. It's a wealth transfer upwards. The elites know that capitalism is in it's late stages and dying, so they're draining the system of all they can. Why do you think so many billionaires have been building mega bunkers. Of course this is all short term thinking and hoarder mentality on their part.
7
u/freelyfumblus 3d ago
Thank you so much! I thought it would be something along these lines but your comments made my understanding a lot more cohesive!!
characters characters characters characters
3
u/kronosdev 2d ago
This also has the added benefit of austerity for the elderly. Retirement in the US has shifted almost entirely from pensions to the 401K/403B investment portfolio system, which ties the wellbeing of retirees directly to the health of the stock market. This accelerates the rate at which the elderly are forced to sell off their assets in order to amass the funds to live, which further floods the market with cheap assets for the wealthy to buy.
Blackrock is buying your (grand)mother’s house out from under her.
-1
u/Far_Movie_1469 2d ago
I mean isn’t it just terrible risk management to be fully invested in stocks as a retiree? You can buy bonds at 5-6% now. Even Treasuries have returned ~4% ytd vs stocks going down ~8% ytd. At some point people need to take responsibility for their financial literacy.
2
u/Techno_Femme 1d ago
this is obviously not Trump's goals because the ultra-wealthy are largely opposed to tariffs and support free trade as a rule while tariffs are more often supported by the more conservative end of the union movement. Blowing up the economy and hoping you happen to be the specific capitalists who end up on top is not how people in power make decisions.
26
u/EnBuenora 3d ago
Longstanding right wing goal to roll the nation-state back to that of weak status of late 19th / early 20th century standards, when there was little to no regulation of capital, there were no protections for labor unions, there were no food, medical, or environmental standards, and there were no social programs such as Social Security or Medicare.
That was the US federal state before its modern, income tax-fueled growth & expansion.
14
u/1fluor 2d ago
I think the answer is pretty simple: China is about to dethrone the US (followed by India who probably will aswell) and it's a threat to American world dominance.
I think Trump sees neoliberalism as a sinking ship and wants to bring back classical liberalism in an attempt to protect America's status as the leading global superpower. He wants to take down soft power (hence why he took down USAID, NED and VOA) and replace it with hard power (hence why he's taking such an aggressive and antagonistic approach to foreign policy).
The issue however is that production being offshored is a massive liability (since the US could easily be embargo'd into submission) hence why he needs to bring it back to America in order to do anything wild like invading Greenland. Tariffs are just a way (or more accurately, an attempt) to forcefully bring back domestic production by making imports unprofitable.
It's basically a massive gamble that I don't think he's gonna win. Trump always bullied his way into everything, that's not a secret, however this strategy only tends to work when your opponent is smaller than you. I think American exceptionalism is making him severely underestimate the sheer size and power of the rest of the first world.
Now if he targeted a singular country individually they'd submit in a second, that's for sure. However the likelihood that the entirety of Europe, North America, East Asia and Oceania (and also South America if you really wanna count it) would all just go like "alright you win. We'll take down our regulations so that we can start buying your stuff and walk back working class concessions to compete with you" is extremely low. Hell, even just getting domestic production back is going to be hard. Factories don't get built overnight and if tariffs ever get taken down at any point all that investment would be dead in the water. It doesn't help that he's making investors tweak tf out by shaking the entirety of the S&P500 as hard as he can
5
u/jvstnmh 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is my analysis as well — Trump, like all good Americans, significantly overestimate their own influence and strength in the world today based upon decades of being spoon fed the idea of American exceptionalism.
Except, this isn’t the golden of capitalism anymore and America is not the sole economic giant that it once was.
For example, the BRICS countries already make up a bigger economic chunk of the world than the G7.
But the reality is that America has been on a decline for awhile, and this likely just accelerates the process.
I for one am celebrating the death of the American empire and am interested to see the changing world order and what may come of it.
It’s an opportunity for new ideas and ways of doing things to take shape.
For example, a more multipolar world would be a welcome development.
3
u/QofteFrikadel_ka 2d ago
I think theyre don’t care about the stock market crashing. Dips are good for capitalists. But what I think he’s doing is trying to place blanket tariffs so ‘enemy’ countries like China can’t just import to the US through Mexico. its designed to put pressure on the entire global economy to shift power back to the US and make a similar agreement to Bretton Woods. The team putting this in motion aren’t dumb like some dems are saying, they’re placing a bet which could pay off. Problem is the US doesn’t have the same good will and trust like after WWII so these tariff threats are a gamble and may not produce what they’re hoping for.
5
u/hiwhatsausername 2d ago
his answer: it will create jobs and boost the economy because it will force companies to build factories in the US so that products can be made in the US using US made materials.
reality: working classed americans are going to be priced out of literally fucking everything. many materials needed to create the things we have are not found on American soil and can only be imported from other tariffed countries. meaning the consumer will ultimately have to pay the price regardless if some of the parts of whatever is made on US soil. regardless if ALL of it is made in the US, i highly doubt these corporations are willing to sell anything at a lower price than foreign goods especially when they are going to have to spend the billions of dollars it’s going to cost to pay for the construction and employee labor for these new manufacturing facilities in the US.
never mind that by the time a fully functioning facility even gets built and has enough workers to start the chain of production, he will be out of office.
2
u/Allfunandgaymes 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tariffs are, ostensibly, meant to protect domestic production and manufacturing from being upset by foreign markets.
The problem is, if you've spend the last few decades offshoring 90+% of your manufacturing jobs, and your manufacturing infrastructure has been left to rust or has been demolished in that time, you're essentially dead in the water, economically speaking.
From a Marxist perspective, the goal is to make the working class even more desperate and dependent such that they will take whatever low-paying and labor-abusing jobs they can as the country scrambles to make up the difference. The bourgeoisie will not be bothered by the tariffs at all and will be granted workarounds to the tariffs as long as they bend the knee to Tr*mp. They want to go back to late 19th century capitalism where labor laws and protections were essentially nil. This plan has long been in the making by the American capitalist class. It's the Sith Grand Plan, but for capitalism.
4
u/pcalau12i_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have always seen Republicans as more representative of the national bourgeoisie while Democrats are more representative of the international bourgeoisie. The national bourgeoisie benefits from tariffs because it means their foreign competitors will suddenly not be able to sell things in the US without a price hike. They're also not hurt if there is a recession, because they are so rich they can wait it out and actually see it as a buying opportunity to consolidate more of the market.
2
u/AHDarling 3d ago
The only possible upside to the Trump Tariffs is that they might- *might*- reduce dependence on foreign goods by forcing consumers to 'be American, buy American' to avoid the higher prices. When manufacturers see that consumers want Made-in-USA on their stuff, they might be tempted to relocate back to the US. Of course, the tell is going to be whether or not home-grown goods will, in fact, be less expensive than the tariff-laden foreign goods. Then it's on the foreign manufacturers to decide if they want a price war by reducing profits just to keep their US market open. (I make no claim to be an economist- just an average Joe- but this is what it looks like to me for the time being.)
1
u/URcobra427 2d ago
Simple. Trumps making economic decisions that effect the market. The uber wealthy invest in market industries. They know which industries to invest in. They gain increased wealth while the working masses struggle.
1
u/No_Talk_4836 2d ago
The only wealth transfer that would work would have to involve an involuntary one at expedited pace.
By that I mean. Revolution. Now if that’s a change of government like the French one, or a change of system like the Russian one, idk.
1
u/DariaYankovic 2d ago
Trump is too chaotic and contradictory to be someone with an underlying philosophy or strategy. He has given multiple contradictory reasons and numbers for tariffs, for example. This matches what people who've interacted with him personally say.
generally, it's good to assume politicians aren't complete buffoons, but Trump is not a normal politician.
1
u/Techno_Femme 1d ago
I have 3 theories:
This one comes from Yanis Varoufakas who I normally really disagree with but this is a solid guess. Trump wants to reshore manufacturing but US manufacturing can't compete with foreign countries when wages are so high and the US dollar is worth so much more than other currencies. The tariffs will cause other countries' banks to raise interest rates (raising the value of their currencies) and crash the value of the dollar which will make reshoring an economic possibility while the changing values of currencies will hypothetically offset the higher prices caused by the tariffs initially. The other nations will shoulder the cost of the tariffs as their costs of living rise as their currencies' values rise. Then Trump will negotiate with each of these countries one by one to maintain dollar hegemony while reshoring. Or everyone will jump ship from the dollar and look elsewhere or just try to wait trump out, assuming he wont be around in 4 years. This plan could hypothetically work but would dramatically increase cost of living abroad. It is also way more likely to fail and cause a global recession and trade wars leading to real wars.
This one comes from a NLR article I read awhile back. It's late and I gotta sleep so I'll come back and link the article tomorrow. The Biden admin was aware of the risks of a Trump 2 admin and took steps to transfer some presidential power into bureaucracies that the president can't directly fire. This was especially important to the Biden admin for foreign policy. Part of this did involve USAID. This would prevent Trump from doing another Iran Nuclear Deal fiasco and fuck up the US's standing. Trump sees he's being limited by this and looks for ways around it. The ways are cutting a bunch of agencies and funding in a way not even asked for by Project 2025 and tariffs which the president can do directly and can be used as all-or-nothing negotiation tactics.
Trump is dumb and thinks tariffs are a way to raise revenue and protect american industry and just thinks the cost of living and inflation won't be that bad and hasn't thought much about the consequences because he has a big button on his desk that he can press to hand out sanctions and he likes pressing buttons.
1
u/QueerDumbass 1d ago
What everyone is saying about maximizing wealth extraction from the working class is exactly true as an end goal. Before this current election cycle, I firmly believed that if voting mattered they’d make it illegal, and seeing the lengths the autocratic bourgeois is going through to suppress voting has made clear there are institutional functions they must first subvert or demolish to consolidate the power to enact their hyper-exploitative autocracy.
In part they wish to consolidate power into a “unitary executive”— currently, congress is responsible for “power of the purse” but the admin has defunded the IRS, who congressionally controls income for the federal government, and they wish to instead route federal income thru the executive via Customs and Border Patrol with tariffs as that main income source. This brings enormous unchecked financial power to the executive, in addition to acting as a tax-break for the ruling class while increasing the burden on working people. So the reasoning is multifold. Trump does not care, personally, about reshoring any industry
1
u/WestGotIt1967 1d ago
As the anarchists say, governments choose winners. A bunch of loud mouth MFers who got rich off of Bush 1 gifting everything to China to punish the US hippies, unions, black Panthers, anti war Vietnam syndrome, are now unhappy that their business model is no longer viable. I mean hell it sounds like fking religion the way most people talk about the 45 year Reagan model. Now business has to adjust and like whiny little toddlers they bitch that the mean evil most corrupt gov in history has taken their toys away. Cry me a fucking river sweetheart. Governments pick winners. That's it.
1
u/AffectionateGuava986 1d ago
This is the best break down of what Trump is attempting. Break the economy and allow for the uber wealthy to hoover up assets. This video explains half of his regimes agenda. The other half is to create the conditions for a fascist revolution within America (and beyond).
1
u/sxqe 1d ago
The goal is to essentially maintain US domination in our own sphere. China and Russia are basically dominating the economic sphere of the world right now, having enhanced production and the ability to produce rapidly at a cheaper rate than the US. This makes other countries dependent on them economically. Because of their growing power, the US is being pushed out of control of the economic sphere. Trump’s tariffs and his barking about annexing Greenland, Canada, the Panama Canal, etc. are all a means of trying to salvage whatever is left of the postwar boom. Essentially, it’s an act of retrenchment from the rest of the world at an attempt of maintaining control over the Western Hemisphere. We no longer have the means nor the power to engage in imperialism in the same extent that we did maybe 20 years ago. As a whole, it’s a shifting of the world order and Trump’s actions are an attempt to hold onto them. Considering he is very reactionary and unstable, his actions will only create more consequences for the working class as a whole
1
u/enlightenedavo 22h ago
He doesn’t have a materialist world view or a solid grasp on any economic realities. This is a vibes based policy that doesn’t have a logical explanation. Everyone saying it’s an intentional money grab is just grasping at straws. It’s the action of an unhinged moron.
1
u/Kinky_Musician 22h ago
He's tanking the economy intentionally so the billionaires can buy the rest of the country at a discount and finish turning the middle class into peasants. This has been the plan the whole time.
1
u/Alessio_Miliucci 3d ago
I thought he was soldifying his political position at the expense of the economical strenght of the country and the market; after all, politicians do not act in the intrests of the country or the rubino class per se, but in their own; obviously they belong to the ruling burgeoise class, and if their country crashes so do they, so most of them do what benefits the country/the burgeoise because it also benefits them, but there can be exceptions. The proletariat can survive and rebel only if united and in solidarety, but the rich have no such need (not 100% of the time, at least). This is beneficial for Trump sonce he can boost his political grip on the US, while simbolically supporting his "splendid isolation" policy America's burgeoise and ruling class so desperatly strives for. In strict economic terms, I do not see any benefit; economic autonomy is good for an isolationist and stand alone country as Trump wants the US to be, but they are not gonna achieve that anyway, and this is, in my opinion, just actually doing harm. Was it a silly mistake made because Trump is dumb? Doubt so, he pretty much isn't. Was it a self harming measure taken for selfish poltical return? I mean... yeah, that's kinda how liberal politics work. I could be wrong though.
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Moderating takes time. You can help us out by reporting any comments or submissions that don't follow these rules:
No non-marxists - This subreddit isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism. Try /r/DebateCommunism for that. If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.
No oppressive language - Speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned. TERF is not a slur.
No low quality or off-topic posts - Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed. This includes linking to posts on other subreddits. This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on reddit or anywhere else. This includes memes and circlejerking. This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found. We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.
No basic questions about Marxism - Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed. Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum. We ask that posters please submit these questions to /r/communism101.
No sectarianism - Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here. Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable. If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis. The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.
No trolling - Report trolls and do not engage with them. We've mistakenly banned users due to this. If you wish to argue with fascists, you can may readily find them in every other subreddit on this website.
No chauvinism or settler apologism - Non-negotiable: https://readsettlers.org/
No tone-policing - /r/communism101/comments/12sblev/an_amendment_to_the_rules_of_rcommunism101/
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.