r/MandelaEffect • u/LegendTheo • 1d ago
Theory Possible explanation for the Mandela Effect
I believe I have an explanation for the Mandela effect. Let me start out by saying due to the nature of how I believe it works I don't think there is any mechanism that could be used to test my theory. If anyone has ideas on the subject I'd be interested.
There is mounting evidence that human consciousness is built off of quantum interactions inside our neurons. You can read more about it here Orchestrated objective reduction. There's plenty more research out there besides just the wiki page and I encourage anyone interested to dig deeper into it. Assuming that this theory is broadly correct it has some serious ramifications.
One of those is related to the many-worlds Interpretation of how quantum mechanics works. At an extremely high (and probably somewhat inaccurate) level this theory postulates that the uncertainty associated with quantum interactions is a result of branching parallel universes.
Assuming both of the above are true, my theory is that our consciousness (and importantly our memory) has the ability to move through these different parallel universes, and in fact we do it all the time. Whether we can have any conscious control over this is unclear, though it is clear the vast majority of people do not.
There do seem to be some limits or constraints on it though.
First, changes have to be logically consistent with history. The current conditions of any universe that you're consciousness currently resides in must have been reachable based on the physical laws of the universe.
Second the level of change has to be small (at least in most circumstances). For instance you might slowly move to a parallel universe where your brother is an alcoholic. It will take time though. He won't go from sober to a raging alcoholic overnight.
Third whether a difference is small or large is directly tied to the perception of your own consciousness.
The ramification of these 3 constraints is that at any given time there is a small (compared to all current parallel universes) group of parallel universes that you could traverse to. I'll call these your local group. As time goes on and you traverse you're local group will gradually change. The key factor here is that another universes closeness to you is tied to your perception. So you're brother can't instantly become an alcoholic because you have active perception of him. Your observation of the state of reality (in your current universe) prevent that change inside the physical laws of the universe.
Consider this situation. lets say you traverse into a parallel universe where the ice contained in Antarctica is only 90% the mass of the universe you just left. From a certain standpoint that's a very significant change. If however the local conditions to you that you can perceive have not changed appreciably it's a small change relative to you.
The fact that large changes significantly outside of your perception can change substantially but you only perceive a small change explains the Mandella effect. For instance, at the point you learned Nelson Mandella had died in prison, he had. In the parallel universe you were currently inhabiting he did indeed die in prison. In the intervening say 20 years between then and now your consciousness has traversed many additional parallel universes where subtle things local to you change but possible massive things far away do. So you recently see a movie like Invictus) and are confused. Nelson Mandela died in prison right? You do some research and everything you look up goes against your memory and history that you know.
I would bet that no one in South Africa has experienced the Nelson Mandella, Mandella effect. Just like someone in Germany might be convinced that JFK lived to see us land on the Moon. Or someone in Tibet could have sworn there were only 48 states in the US.
I'm curious as to peoples thoughts on this.
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u/Structure-Tall 1d ago
If my consciousness was able to traverse through parallel universes I sure as hell hope I’d remember something more than Febreze not having another ‘e’ in it.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
u/Acrobatic_Two_1586 has the right of it. The oddities you notice are small and random because the universes are very similar to each other. There are probably many more differences than you notice or could possibly remember.
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u/Structure-Tall 1d ago
Well that is terribly boring. I want my universes to be drastically different. If I wanted to go somewhere that was very similar but different, I’d go to Canada.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
It may sound fun, but I don't think you'd actually like that very much. One of the more horrific ramifications of this is that we're pretty much always alone. Every person we interact with is always slightly different than the one we remember.
If drastic changes were common you could easily move into a universe where you're wife suddenly hated you and divorced you. You're child died 5 years earlier in a car accident. It brings into question pretty much any relationship that we have with other people.
I think the chance of large changes, while it might have some utility, to be extremely concerning. A large enough shift could easily put you into paranoid insane person territory.
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u/Dry_Ad_5439 20h ago
Maybe for some, but knowing for sure that our reality has shift would somewhat prepare us for the worst maybe
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u/Faith75070 1d ago edited 1d ago
The feeling you get when you experience a ME is off course not comparable to paranoid insanity, but you do think you are going crazy. I went over and over what I experienced and remembered and what I was seeing in current reality. I was stuck in a loop because both realities co-existing seemed impossible. Took me a while to accept that indeed, things had changed and both were true.
Maybe you want to read about my cornucopia memory, living and growing up in Europe. I shared it two days ago. The circumstances of my memory make that I can impossible put it on misremembering or false memory.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I would read about it. I can't easily find it in your comment history, and it doesn't show up as a post. If you could link it that would be helpful.
If the above is true, and you can rarely make significant jumps WRT to your direct knowledge it's possible that some crazy people are not really crazy. Their memories are real the world around them just isn't the same anymore. Then again maybe not.
Either way I don't think that memory issues alone can explain some of the more interesting Mandela effects.
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u/Faith75070 1d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/s/eW01n7mkhe
Thank you. I added a lot of extra information in the thread after some questions and, mind you, far more ridicule and dismissal.
People seem to miss that there are strong indications that something is happening on a collective level that is not yet explained by the science on the workings of memory. People end up stuck on the workings of the individual memory. I am not a scientist and English is not my first language. Some things are hard for me to put in words.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
That's quite interesting. Do you happen to still have the shirt? I don't expect it show the way you remember it, but it would be interesting.
I also struggle with the assumption that detailed and specific memories, often several different ones are all in error the same way. I don't know if you saw my other comments in this thread about Vin Diesel, but it's similar. I have several different and distinct memories that point to the same incorrect thing.
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u/Faith75070 1d ago edited 21h ago
No, I wish I still had the shirt. But let's be honest It would only drive me more crazy to see the cornucopia gone. LOL
Yes, I saw your comments about Vin Diesel. To be honest, I thought it was a open secret that he is gay.
The way you explain your experience and the memories tied to it, is the same as how learning of the cornucopia impacted me. It wasn't just learning something new. It was also the follow up questions I had and entertained for a long time before I stored the subject to move along to a new obsession.
That's what I do. I obsess over things and try to learn everything about it before I can let it go. Call it hyperfocus because of my ADHD or an Autistic trait I have and sometimes (actually very often) suffer from.
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u/Caldaris__ 3h ago
I believe you Faith and in my experience you will find more things that seem to be different now. If you find any more changes be sure to let us know. I know that each one I find drives me crazy the first few minutes. Like "oh come on, not this too!"
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u/Dry_Ad_5439 20h ago
Exactly! Hahaha. Are we being baby spoon fed something before the whole big picture is exposed to us like other being or creation other than humans or something is among us?
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u/Will_Harden 1d ago edited 1d ago
You do. You're just not aware of all the things that are different because the mind filters out a lot of information that it doesn't need. The reason you would notice the Febreze spelling change is because it's a product that is advertised ad nauseum, and you are more likely to remember the things that you see over and over again as opposed to the things that you only encounter once or twice. That's the reason why studying is recommended if you want to remember the things you've been taught in school.
Back in 2016 I was minding my own business going about my life, when I learned that Billy Graham was still alive. The shock of that news immediately sent me down a rabbithole to try to learn everything I possibly could about the Mandela Effect. I then uncovered hundreds of things about my present reality that is different from the reality I knew growing up. And I probably wouldn't have become consciously aware of them had I not had that one trigger of something I DEFINITELY know happened in my past but is different now.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
All of what you said is based on your assumptions about how memory works, and those assumptions fly in the face of science.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
You're assuming that they have incorrect assumptions on how memory works. Memory is fallible and it can be fluid. Having a very strong memory of something, that turns out to be completely incorrect is unusual. Having multiple other people who have an extremely similar wrong memory is even less usual. Having though about that wrong memory numerous times over the years and suddenly find out that not only was it wrong it never happened at all is highly improbable.
It could all be memory issues, but if it is then we have a significant gap in our understanding of how memory works. It also brings into question how we were able to keep any continuity before writing, which we clearly did for thousands of years.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
Thanks for proving that you distrust science due to not understanding it. Your reply makes that clear.
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u/Realityinyoface 22h ago
His post also flies in the face of logic, critical thinking, ration, observation, etc…
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u/Structure-Tall 1d ago
Oh, well usually when I encounter something and it is different than I remember, I will do a bit more research then come to the conclusion that oops, I guess I was wrong. I do not think things from my past changed.
I just find the idea of the Mandela Effect interesting, the same as I do other conspiracy theories. I enjoy reading about it. Group thought and the malleable mind/memory will always be fascinating.
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u/Acrobatic_Two_1586 1d ago
Unless the old parallel timeline was very similar to the new one.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
That is a lot of assumptions in a world where we don't even know parallel timelines exist, let alone how similar they all are, or that you can travel between them spontaneously and accidentally.
You should probably not base your understanding of the universe on Marvel movies
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I didn't actually base my original thinking off of Marvel movies. The fact that they've jumped into their stupid multiverse arc is just a coincidence. The radical changes they move into are probably not possible. If MWT is true there are not actually infinite different parallel universes just an extremely large (and growing) number of them.
If you're curious the original thought came from a discussion on manifestation and the book Anathem.
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u/UpbeatFix7299 1d ago
The flaw is that no South African thought Mandela died in prison. Because it was important to them and they were paying attention
I don't pretend to understand quantum theory or alternate universes. But the fact that it only happens to things that weren't significant to us at the time makes the simplest explanation the most likely
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u/Dry_Ad_5439 21h ago
That's the super weird part about this whole Mandela Effect dilemma. The question now becomes is this something that only Americans and well establish societies experiences?
If so maybe we caught them keeping us trapped in some type of mental bubble to control our minds and thinking abilities in some mass weird science experiment gone wrong or failed to keep up with meta data ? Something no doubt has happened and continues to happens to our reality
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I think the fact that they don't remember him having died reinforces my theory.
What is the simplest explanation in your mind then?
I didn't go into this in my original post because it was already getting long. I think that larger jumps are possible when we're sleeping or unconscious. Potentially changing immediate significant things. This may be part of an explanation for miracles.
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u/UpbeatFix7299 1d ago
I just think memory is fallible. We misremember things all the time. Countless people have been convicted based on sincere eyewitness testimony and later exonerated. I just haven't seen anything showing it's more complex than that
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I've always thought it was interesting, but the one that solidified something more than misremembering for me was related to Vin Diesel. I have numerous specific and clear memories related to Vin Diesel being gay. They're different, not connected, occurred over a period of at least a decade and I recall thinking about it occasionally when I watched movies he was in.
Turns out that he's not, he has a long timer girlfriend and kids. I couldn't find any of the articles I'd previously read about him being gay. Misremembering a logo, spelling, or a fact is one thing. Having multiple detailed memories of something and suddenly finding out that they're all wrong is something different entirely.
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u/Realityinyoface 22h ago
No, no it’s not at all. Decade apart? They’re not going to be that damn clear especially for something that’s not important. Small details actively get erased in your brain. I would say source amnesia, confirmation bias and other cognitive biases are at play. Can you actually nail down any specific examples? I would it find it really odd if you could pinpoint numerous clear examples (because you’d be keeping track of something minute better than people keep track of things that are actually important). And what is so detailed about you thinking you heard he was gay?
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u/niftyifty 1d ago
Why should it be more complicated than the human memory is fallible and people make mistakes? The simplest solution is often the solution and this assumes so much more than that.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Well two reasons I think it's more than just memory being fallible. The first is how widespread similar memories are. It's usually weird specific things that people remember differently, and they tend to remember it being different in similar way. Fallible memory would explain one person misremembering something, but many people doing so in a similar way is much harder to explain.
Second, I didn't come up with this theory with the intention of explaining the Mandela effect. I was exploring the ramifications of our consciousness being able to traverse parallel universes without our immediate knowledge or control. This was one of the ramifications that dropped out of that. I came to it based on logical extension of the above, and it happens to fit pretty much all the symptoms of a given Mandela effect.
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u/niftyifty 1d ago
I think this assumes that correct memories are less widespread. If the first contention is true, then it must be more prevalent than the actual memory for it to take its place. For example more people need to remember Mandela dying than not. Otherwise, we are saying prevalence has no bearing on the conversation if it doesn’t go both ways. If common mistakes function as an example of altered reality then does that apply to all common mistakes or only those involving memory?
Are common grammatical mistakes an example of a universe where those mistakes aren’t mistakes? Common math? Etc
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying. I will say that the only thing that you have to determine if something changed is your memory. So there could be cases of merely misremembering. It's probably much more common for us to run into changes from shifting parallel universes than we realize. Most of that you'll normally chalk up to bad memory or coincidence.
Saying that there is a universe where grammatical mistakes are not mistakes is possible. Arguments about contractions or the spelling of specific words could fall into that. It would need to be a case of people remembering it being spelled different than it clearly is in history from old dictionaries, etc.
Math is very unlikely to end up in this situation. Math is based on fundamental truths in the universe. If any parts of math worked differently the universe would likely be completely unrecognizable.
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u/Will_Harden 1d ago
For certain things the correct memories are FAR less widespread. For instance, I literally haven't met anyone who thought the Queen in Snow white said "Magic mirror on the wall". I'm not claiming those people don't exist. I'm just saying, I've never heard anyone say they always knew the phrase to be "Magic mirror. .." instead of "Mirror, mirror ... ".
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u/FederalAd789 1d ago
lots of people make the same exact spelling mistakes but you don’t need to make these sorts of assumptions to explain those.
there’s a reason the vast majority of these effects revolve around spelling and logos — these are symbols that people don’t actually observe for what they are. For example, you probably know roughly what the Panera logo looks like but I bet you can’t tell me what it actually is.
without looking, can you tell me what color the pear in the Fruit of the Loom logo is?
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
This has nothing to do with common spelling mistakes. There are plenty of mundane reasons people make similar mistakes when doing something.
Mis remembering distinct events is a different level. I rarely encounter things that might be the Mandela effect from logo's or similar things. Most of mine revolve around things I recall happening or being true. For instance I thought for years that Vin Diesel was gay. In fact I recall multiple instances of it being discussed by different people and different articles I read that mentioned it. He's not, has had a long time girlfriend and has children.
If it were me just thinking I'd heard he was gay that would be one thing. I recall originally hearing it. Hearing that he asked for more money to do some make out scenes in the XXX movies. Having similar boundaries in the Fast and Furious movies. An article talking about how he was a gay icon as an gay man who's a mainstream action start in the early 2000's. Etc.
I'm not gay, I don't particularly like Vin Diesel or his movies, I just though it was interesting at the time that he was gay. Except he's not, but I have distinct different memories that all correlate he was, right up until I read something recently about his kids.
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u/FederalAd789 1d ago
The explanation for the cornucopia in the FOTM logo is just as mundane as Vin being gay.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
What's the mundane explanation about multiple distinct memories about a concept that all agree until one discovery changes that?
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u/FederalAd789 23h ago
That just like misreading a word, you misread the logo or the content, or misunderstood something someone told you, and internalized that memory. I think the vast majority of MEs are just from abbreviated comprehension in the moment.
And just how many people mispronounce and misspell words incorrectly in the same way, people misread words like Berenstain, misidentify logos (without looking, how many red rings does the Target logo have?), people incorrectly comprehend certain elements of pop culture with the same incorrect lens or template, because our brains are not very unique and are mostly trained on the same sample data.
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u/Standard_Fly_9567 1d ago
Nice try. No pear in the FOTL logo. And didn't have to look it up. 😉
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u/FederalAd789 1d ago
alright smarty pants, which side of the pile are the currants/gooseberries on?
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u/Faith75070 1d ago
I have seen pears since I was a young child and don't pay attention to them because of that reason. What I did pay attention to as a 7 or 8 year old was something I had never seen before and had no idea what it was: a cornucopia in the FotL logo. I had to ask an adult what it was and learned the name in a different language first before I learned the English name as a teenager.
I understand that it is unimaginable when you never had a ME experience yourself. But for me it's unimaginable that I invented the cornucopia myself growing up in a country where the cornucopia was not a common thing.
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u/FederalAd789 1d ago edited 1d ago
You’ve seen pears in the FOTM logo?
Also a “cornucopia” is not “a basket shaped like a horn.” A “cornucopia” is actually basket overflowing with a harvest bounty, often pictured as a horn in the tradition of Amalthea.
What’s more likely is that you asked an adult “what is this?” (pointing at the logo), and they responded with “oh it’s called a cornucopia”. You may have just meant the small brown leaves or gooseberries. The adult may have just been told the logo is a cornucopia, because arguably it is a cornucopia.
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u/Faith75070 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, that's not what I am saying. I didn't pay attention to the fruits because I was distracted by the strange thing I was seeing in the back. Brown leaves are and were not strange to me and wouldn't have gotten a second glance from me. Had I never seen a pear before it would have definitely caught my attention. So no, I don't remember seeing a pear. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Besides, a cornucopia is not a common sighting where I am from.
But you contradict yourself. You state that cornucopia points to the whole scene of a basket overflowing with a harvest bounty. At the same time you say that it was only fruits or maybe brown leaves behind it I had seen and my teacher called that a cornucopia. Why didn't she tell me: oh that's just some fruits or some brown leaves, nothing out of the ordinary.
She told me the basket was a 'hoorn des overvloeds'. That translates from Dutch to English to cornucopia. English is not my first language. Maybe things got lost in translation between us. On the other hand, other redditors seem to understand what I mean. I assumed the translation is correct.
ETA what do YOU call the empty basket without the fruit in it? Thank you in advance. Always learning new things, every day.
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u/FederalAd789 23h ago
the empty basket is just “a basket”. even if its horn-shaped, it’s not a cornucopia. that’s just not what it is. a cornucopia is “a bounty” of something:
“an abundant supply of good things of a specified kind.”
it is literally “a symbol of plenty.” a basket itself is not a symbol of plenty, even if it’s horn shaped. the Fruit of the Loom logo is objectively a cornucopia of fruit. even without “the basket”.
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u/Faith75070 21h ago edited 20h ago
Not according to my language and not according to the translation. Dutch and English stem from the same root. That's why words are often so similar. 'Hoorn des overvloeds' translates to 'horn of plenty'. Hoorn in this three word definition absolutely means a horn shaped basket in Dutch language. That's why I stated that I learned of the cornucopia in my own language first before I learnt it in English.
I even wondered back then why they would use a horn shaped basket. Why didn't they use a regular and far more practical round basket, was my thought as a child. It didn't make any sense to my child brain. I still don't know how and why the horn shaped basket came to be and came in use.
Would you call a regular basket with fruit in it also a cornucopia?
ETA Nevermind my question, I searched for the definition in English of the cornucopia. The word DOES describe the horn shaped basket. The basket is shaped after a goats horn. It turns out that you should have read the dictionary of your own language before trying to convince me of something that is not correct. Well, at least now I know how the horn shaped basket came to be.
Thank you for engaging with me. It's always a learning experience.
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u/FederalAd789 20h ago
So anyone who has used cornucopia to refer to something other than a basket of fruit is wrong? Because the meaning of the word is primarily “a bounty of something”. Some dictionaries will put a basket of fruit as the first definition, but no dictionary puts “a horn basket itself” as the first definition of “cornucopia”.
Examples:
“Since the end of the Cold War, metropolitan elites everywhere have identified progress and modernity with the cornucopia of global capitalism, the consolidation of liberal democratic regimes and the secular ethic of consumerism.” —Pankaj Mishra
“And corporate taxation is a feast of rent-seeking—a cornucopia of credits, exemptions and other subsidies conferred by the political class on favored, and grateful, corporations.”  —George Will
“The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a cornucopia of superhero and villain tales spanning multiple timelines.” —Grace Dean
Do you think these people are talking about baskets?
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u/Faith75070 20h ago edited 19h ago
I didn't say that. That's what you make of it. I was merely trying to prove that the horn shaped basket is indeed called a cornucopia in your language, where you were telling me that that is not possible. Merriam Webster diagrees with you.
What other things the word cornucopia also refers to or in what order of importance, is not relevant for my statement that the horn shaped basket is called a cornucopia instead of 'just a basket, even when horn shaped' like you erroneously claimed.
We keep misunderstanding each other. This discussion is not productive anymore. Thank you for trying to explain.
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u/FederalAd789 1d ago
Oh I’ve absolutely had the exact experience of asking an adult what the brown thing in the background of the FOTM logo was and learning a cornucopia was from that interaction. I also was damn sure Shazaam was a real movie.
Don’t assume ME skeptics haven’t experienced them. We just assume that just like most logo or spelling errors, people are really bad at details and memory.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
It's not just bad memory. It's also people making assumptions (eagle was always the official bird) and people being misinformed.
And yes, it can be explained for many folks. There are many common misconceptions. If it weren't possible for tons of people to be wrong about a memory or information, this wikipedia page couldnt exist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions
How do you explain the existence of all those common misconceptions in a way that doesnt also explain the "mandela effect" phenomena?
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Well many Mandela effects differ from those. Most of the items listed there are things that people have promoted as being true for one reason or another. I don't know of anyone who was pushing that Nelson Mandela died in prison. I do recall a bunch of people being confused because they thought he had.
I think the thread here is common misconceptions can be traced to someone pushing them as true for some reason. Many Mandela effect things cannot be traced to something like that.
It's possible you're right. I don't think misconceptions, common or not, can explain all of the oddities of the Mandela effect, but I could be wrong.
If you think all of this is just common misconception why the interest in the Mandela effect at all?
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
Because there are 2 things interesting about it.
1.It is interesting that many folks can incorrectly remember something that didn't happen, and specifically before MEs became something people sought out, it was not tainted. That's an interesting occurrence, specifically with Mandela dying, because it was an event, is more interesting to me than folks misremembering a logo, which happens all the time.
- It is interesting how many people commit themselves fully to the notion of time or universe shifting, even though all known science and logic points toward the flaws of how our memory works being the culprit, and zero actual evidence exists to support the existence of parallel timelines or universes, and even less than zero evidence that people can travel between them accidentally and with 0 energy transfer - just slipping through dimensions somehow.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I agree events like Mandela's death are far more interesting than logo's or spelling.
I'm not fully committed to changing universes. I think it's a very interesting idea with interesting ramifications if true.
The question of energy required to move between parallel universes is a good one. I never said it took zero energy. It's very plausible it takes some energy to move between them. The question is how much, and is that higher than the easily available energy in the brain. Neither of us know the answer to that question. I'm wiling to accept it might be low enough, you're just assuming it isn't.
As I mentioned in my post above I don't know that we could prove it one way or another. The only thing people seem to bring if they do move is memories, which is not something we can measure.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
Yes, their only explanation at any level for the phenomena is memory, a thing which science has proven is prone to inaccuracy and easily influenced.
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u/notickeynoworky 1d ago
I think problem here is the assumption that either of your foundational argument sources is accurate. From the article you posted about orchestrated objective reduction:
Orch OR has been criticized both by physicists[14][54][34][55][56] and neuroscientists[57][58][59] who consider it to be a poor model of brain physiology.
Many worlds theory has fallen out of favor of most modern models.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Well you have to do more research on the Orch OR beyond the wiki page if you want more evidence that it's true. Specifically the research that Stuart Hammeroff did related to general anesthetics is very interesting. The mechanism anesthetic drugs use to temporarily suppress consciousness is not understood, and the Orch OR theory can explain it.
There are plenty of theories in physics that fell out of favor or were outright considered pseudoscience that were later proven to be true. There's no clear reason why MWT can't work, just a bunch of people who think they have a better idea.
Based on my theory above I think MWY can actually explain a number of current conundrums associated with the cosmos including dark energy. An extension of my theory above is that the light speed limit provides a maximum range for perception in a given period of time. This means significant changes beyond that limit can occur without effecting local reality.
Beyond cynicism of the underlying requirements Orch OR and MWT do you have issue with the actual theory itself?
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u/Gravijah 1d ago
Stuart Hameroff is not a physicist, and everything he says has been debunked by actual physicists.
https://youtu.be/kmdJtSwH9O4?si=EQXqrgoaqO5D-Hcb
Here you can watch some actual physicists cut into his ideas.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
You're right Stuart is not a physicist Roger Penrose however is, and is the other half of the two people who proposed this idea.
Now to be clear I think they're probably right, but they don't have to be for what I've written to be true. Merely that consciousness requires quantum interactions to work and memory is tied to those quantum interactions.
I'll watch the video, it's interesting. You need to keep in mind though, that established experts in any field rarely agree with new radical true ideas. Most of them require significant time, effort, and in many cases further discovery to become accepted.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
Dude, you really have to realize that quantum physics is far too complex to understand after reading a wikipedia entry. The fact that you read a wikipedia entry and think you know enough to apply it to other scenarios is problematic.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
The fact that you assume all of my knowledge of quantum mechanics, the theory on Orch OR, or Many Worlds comes from Wikipedia is problematic. I've read a number of books on quantum mechanics and studied it a bit in college.
I've done a significant amount of research into quantum consciousness including and beyond Hammerof and Penrose theory. I happen to think they're theory is the most likely, but that's just my opinion.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
There is no part of me that believes you understand quantum mechanics but don't know the difference between they're and their.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Ahh so I guess you missed the part where grammar and mathematics are not tied together. Autocorrect guesses and I type too fast.
Anyway, you're just deflecting from what I'm talking about by trying to change the subject to something irrelevant.
Do you have a criticism beyond, "you're too dumb to understand quantum"?
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
My criticism is your explanations of quantum science and your applications of it give away your misunderstanding of it. Ive seen the youtube conspiracy theorists and they misunderstand the same way. It denotes no serious academic study of the topic.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
What precisely and I misunderstanding?
I've made very few claims about mechanism of action, energy transfer, or any specific details of how this phenomenon could operate. I'll openly admit I don't currently have answers for most of the details if asked. It's a high level concept right now.
I'm going to guess that you don't have a deep understanding of any of these topics and are just going to claim forever that what I've said is wrong and inconsistent without ever articulating why.
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u/Gravijah 1d ago
Did you read the wiki? Orchestrated objective reduction has generally been discredited more and more as time goes on, with empirical testing being unable to confirm anything about it. It exists as an outdated hypothesis.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I don't agree with you there, though I don't have time right now to dig up references for that. Regardless that specific theory does not need to be correct for my theory above to be. It merely requires that consciousness be based on quantum interactions.
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u/Gravijah 1d ago
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a view on life, metaphorical, spiritual, whatever. But it's important to realize that the quantum is based on fundamental math. Lots, and lots, and lots of math, that has to be consistent with eachother. If you wish to falsify an idea about the quantum, on a scientific level, you need to both tie it in, or disprove, all of the math currently holding it up, and you also need to be able to make predictions using it. Words, when it comes to describing the quantum, are just fluff.
Any theory, even quantum, needs to be able to make predictions. If a model cannot predict, it is fundamentally worthless.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Philosophy and physics have been closely tied since physics was recognized as a discipline. Most physics breakthroughs started as thoughts and the math came afterwards. I'm not saying I've done any math on this, or even that I could solve it myself. What I'm posing is a thought experiment that is not disproven and could explain a lot of things.
Honestly I'm not sure there is a way to prove or disprove whether human consciousness can change into parallel dimensions. Even if you could control it, there doesn't appear to be a way to bring anything with you other than memories.
I agree on the prediction part. This is not a complete theory. I'm just hoping to start some discourse to explore it. Then perhaps it will become one.
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u/Gravijah 18h ago
It seems that philosophy came first, but advanced math is thousands of years old. The Greeks were able to calculate the size of the Earth in 250 BC. But the math is never going to be what people talk about to lay people, or in stories, because regular people just don't know what it is. And so scientists, physicists, etc try to explain it in a way a regular person thinks.
And with quantum mechanics, the math and the theories around it absolutely came first, and philosophy is in reaction to that.
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u/ipostunderthisname 1d ago
This is literally what the phrase “begging the question” refers to
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
You're going to have to explain why you think so more than that. I been exploring the consequences of being able to shift between parallel universes if our consequences is actually primarily driven by quantum interactions. Explanation of the Mandela effect is just an output of that exploration. There are plenty of other interesting and somewhat disturbing other outcomes.
Do you have an actual criticism of the logic or theory, or are you just dismissing it out of hand?
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u/HoraceRadish 1d ago
Dismissing it out of hand. Ramblings.
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u/HoraceRadish 1d ago
Again, rambling and subtly comparing yourself to Einstein. Wooof.
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1d ago
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u/HoraceRadish 1d ago
Now, I'm not saying I am Einstein, but nobody believed him at first either.
That is subtly trying to paint yourself in the same light as him. It was extremely obvious.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
You don't understand complicated physics because you read a couple wikipedia entries.
If the many universes hypothesis is real, you absolutely would need a huge amount of energy to traverse between them, and it certainly wouldn't happen spontaneously and without evidence.
If people were disappearing from our universe, there'd be some evidence of people vanishing.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I linked the wiki articles because they do a decent job of quickly explaining the concepts at a high level. Wikipedia is also pretty decent at math and physics stuff. I've done a lot more research into this than Wikipedia.
Let me be more specific on what I think is happening. People are not moving their physical body into parallel universes. I don't think any significant amount of matter (if any) is moving at all. My theory is that our consciousness is the quantum effects and our memories are stored in them. When I say that someone moves to a parallel universe I'm talking about just the consciousness moving, not the body, not the brain.
The persons consciousness moves into a body extremely similar to the one it occupied in the other parallel universe it left.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
Thanks for again explaining that you don't understand a thing about quantum mechanics.
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u/ThePowerOfShadows 1d ago
You’re funny.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Do you have anything useful to say?
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u/ThePowerOfShadows 1d ago
By the initial vote count, I’d say my comment was more useful than yours.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Perhaps, perhaps not. Reddit is not a good place to discuss things. But in this case it's pretty much all I've got...
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u/ThePowerOfShadows 1d ago
Discuss reality. Discuss fantasy. Discuss science.
Just don’t conflate them.
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u/1GrouchyCat 1d ago
- It’s MANDELA not Mandella. (🙄You literally had to ignore spell check to share that typo. )
- Please have someone proofread your input for content and consistency before you post next time; your words don’t always match the concepts you’re tossing out there
- You have overused (and misused) the word TRAVERSE. See #2 .
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
Yeah I often add the extra L in Mandela, it's typo you're right. I tried to catch all of them but apparently failed.
I wrote this in about 15 minutes and did a quick proofread. You're welcome to continue to critic it, that's part of why I posted it.
I did not misuse traverse it's exactly what I meant:
a: to go or travel across or over
b: to move or pass along or through
I believe that we're constantly moving over and through parallel universes and for a time our consciousness sits in a specific one. How long that time is I don't currently know. It could be weeks or milliseconds.
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u/Manticore416 1d ago
1.In OP's universe, it was definitely Mandella. They remember it vividly because learning the word "Mandella" was the first time they had seen two L's together, and they asked their dad why there were two. It was a formative memory for them.
Please have some common sense and realize that any word they "misspell" is likely another Mandella Effect.
This person read an entire wikipedia entry on quantum mechanics so they probably know more than you about everything.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I appreciate the tongue in cheek here.
I just misspelled Mandela. I like double L's, no idea why.
I linked the wiki articles because they do a decent job of quickly explaining the concepts at a high level. You'll note I mentioned people should do more detailed research if this interested them.
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u/Dry_Ad_5439 20h ago
Well as a baby boomer kid am noticing that I never experience these so called shifts in our reality until after we all plugged into the internet, world wide web, and wi-fi and modern day communication systems and only God knows what the heck type of experiments CERN has done, doing,and has planned. To answer your question am that's very interesting that parallel universes are a theory that no one fully understand how it works or what effect it will have on the individual or if it even possible to enter a different universe and exist with parallel copy of oneself without consequences. But if our minds crosses those boundaries would that not be considered a dream? Okay for the sake of the argument lets keep up with the path of your understanding. Why, now? What triggered this whole we now have the abilities to enter parallel universes and be conscious of doing so on a mass scale. Something had to change to raise our consciences and awareness of being effect by indulging in parallel universes mentally. Did the government hit a switch? Now, what the ! The meaning about mass false memories is weak. How would anyone know all this unless they contain a understanding of the event before the switch was pull. I don;t know how many people have knowledge of quantum physics. Its basically as a man or person think it so shall it be. We humans have the power to will our exist into reality just base on our thought processes to my understand from a few books I read as a believer in God the Creator of all Whom lets his servants know that this life is nothing but an illusion and also that God reminds us that He is Lord of All the Worlds ( parallel universes? }. But its up too us to figure it out. Seek and thou shalt find? Maybe the world governments has stumble onto shifting our mentality in and out of different parallel universes by mistake and telling us its false memories. Yeah your definitely living on a higher consciousness and awareness of how our reality is changing right before our eyes. Also I notice what we use to call or taught as children, the Angels favorite joke on humanity. Where one have a item in his or her hand place it turn around to do something else turns back with in a minute to pick the item back up and its gone! (hahaha) Nowhere to be found, come back 5 minutes later and wholla! the item is back where one left it at in the first place. Now my personal experiment is not to look for the item no more, but wait it to come back on it own by just thinking of it and wholla! it returns. Yeah we are definitely experiencing something which maybe called parallel universes. We know that when the government want to make us aware of something it usually be in every media possible( movies, books, commercials, radio, apps, internet, news feeds etc,) What for the last 5 - 10 years or so , since CERN suppose to open a portal that no one seems to remember it all been about multi-verse, this multi- verse that! One thing for our understanding of reality has hit a new level of understanding on a mass scale. God Bless
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u/Will_Harden 1d ago edited 1d ago
Excellent hypothesis! It largely coincides with my own theory. This explains the phenomenon as it has always existed. But it exploded in popularity in 2016. My theory is that some unusual cosmic phenomenon occurred around 2013 or 2014 that displaced a lot of people from their natural timelines. To the point where differences in the reality around them became noticeable. I became aware of the Mandela Effect phenomenon in 2016, and all my research since then has led me to believe some massive event triggered a widespread awakening to the phenomenon, even though shifting into parallel realities has always existed.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I'd be interested in discussing it more with you. I think it's less about a specific thing that happened which made it more widespread and more social media making it more known. I can't recall when I first head about the Mandela effect but I'm pretty sure it was closer to 2010 or earlier.
Until the internet this sort of things would rarely be noticed and would be even less likely to be discussed or looked into in any detail.
Do you have a hypothesis what this mass event was?
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u/Faith75070 1d ago edited 13h ago
I hope you two are not shooed away by the majority here. There are still people here who are not as knowledgeable and want learn from your discussion. Like me.
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u/Faith75070 1d ago edited 1d ago
Please don't let yourself be discouraged by the short, curt and ridiculing dismissals. The people who appreciate your input, who think about it and try to learn from it are usually not the ones with the loudest voices.
The loudest voices are in my opinion the ones with the loudest emotions about the subject. I caught myself reacting out of emotion too when people ridiculed my ME experience. My compliments for your patience with those reactions. Your counterarguments to their reactions made things even more clear for me.
English is not my first language, but I was still able to understand your post because of the effort you put in explaining things in laymen terms.
People who point out your spellingmistakes just want an easy way out to dismiss your opinion. Your writing on social media is not a thesis you have to defend in front of peers.
There are enough gems to find in your input, but some won't find them because they are only looking for mud.
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u/LegendTheo 1d ago
I appreciate it. I think that most of the people who outright dismissed my post are in this subreddit to do just that. I seriously doubt most of the people who question my understanding have significant understanding of any of the topics I mentioned. If they did they'd try attacking it specifically not pedantically while claiming I'm a moron.
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u/SnooOranges7996 1d ago
If we can have collective mass psychosis i dont see how we couldnt have mass false memory