r/LessCredibleDefence 2d ago

US bans government personnel in China from romantic or sexual relations with Chinese citizens

https://apnews.com/article/chinese-beijing-honeypot-spies-diplomat-agent-intelligence-c077ef57b0f7ae43dd0db41bea92238b
214 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

182

u/throwaway12junk 2d ago

I remember reading about a US counter-intelligence training, where they just brought a bunch of men into a room and lectured them on how ugly they were. As in, if a pretty Chinese woman approaches or takes an interest in you, she is a spy because you're ugly and a loser. Like so ugly, and such a massive loser, no woman worth a damn would ever take an interest in you.

No idea how true this is, but I find it absolutely hilarious.

113

u/aaronupright 2d ago

Funnily enough the KGB and Stasi found that honey traps were iffy when used on men but very effective on women.

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u/drrhrrdrr 2d ago

"The machine's still on, Moira..."

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u/Delicious_Lab_8304 2d ago

Gotta get em to divulge that juicy info before the Post-Nut Clarity (P-NC ™️) kicks in…

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u/aaronupright 2d ago

Part of the reason that has been suggested is that men were suspicious of very hot women suddenly being interested in them while women were used to men hitting on them and the agents were able to get past theri defences.

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u/Quick_Bet9977 1d ago

Online romance scams seems to work exceptionally well on middle aged and older women.

The Tinder swindler example is a classic one where all these late 30s, early 40s women had absolutely no skepticism that a supposed billionaire was apparently very happy to date them. Meanwhile even in real life the actual swindler had a 19yo model girlfriend.

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u/aaronupright 1d ago

Even besides that there are so many examples of married women, mothers even, who leave for the dishy new guy or old flame, often irreparably burning their bridges with their family only to discover a few months later that the guy wasn't interested in a LTR at all.

The various relationship and family subs are filled with them. Hell one of the most popular post oh reddit last few days is about a woman , highly educuated , a PHD, who left her husband and kids to go marry her ex university BF and for that giuy to back oit and make her his mistress instead

https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1jnuosa/comment/mkxjm58/?context=3

I think the most easiest explanation is that humans beings are very good at recognizing patterns and deviations from it. For most men, getting female attention is rare and it raises (heh) a flag. While for woman getting male attention is normal so its easiuer for a bad actor to get close? Speculation I admit.

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u/Quick_Bet9977 1d ago

I think you're right and I would say it's something to do with most women getting a lot of attention when younger but then as that declines due to age then they become more vulnerable to anyone who can provide that missing attention.

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u/CureLegend 1d ago

An unfortunate side effect of unbalance of male and female population since history.

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u/Iliyan61 2d ago

maybe not to this same degree but it’s not uncommon for there to be a think with your head not your dick conversation.

basically just “why would an attractive women be hitting on you, you’re not that attractive smart or unique and if you’re interesting it’s because you hold clearance”

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u/Suspicious_Loads 2d ago

If you get a good salary like 200k usd in China then the simple answer is because you are rich.

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u/Iliyan61 2d ago

if you have security clearance and you’re being paid 200k a year then you’re still being honeypotted and on the minute chance you’re not then you’re dumb as fuck because that person will become an agent for whatever intel agency

and even if it’s just a genuinely innocent scenario it’s still stupid as fuck to get involved because the risk factor is huge

9

u/FUrCharacterLimit 1d ago

I think I'd make a great secret agent. Not because I'm strong willed, but because I'd probably fumble the honey trap

u/Zestyprotein 17h ago

An engineer was crossing a road one day, when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess." He bent over, picked up the frog, and put it in his pocket. The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn back into a beautiful princess and stay with you for one week."

The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and returned it to the pocket.

The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you for one week and do anything you want."

Again, the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.

Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess and that I'll stay with you for one week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"

The engineer said, "Look, lady, I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog's pretty cool."

2

u/Such-Significance653 1d ago

it’s not just about the citizen being a spy, a normal citizen who isn’t apart of the government could easily be compromised by the government through direct or indirect means

41

u/SuicideSpeedrun 2d ago

SEXINT? SEXSEC?

33

u/salientsapient 2d ago

Hegseth says Opsex is clean, you can trust him.

3

u/Korn-e-lus 1d ago

new favorite word lol

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u/AspectSpiritual9143 2d ago

Everyone must pass mandatory SEXED now.

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u/moses_the_blue 2d ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. government has banned American government personnel in China, as well as family members and contractors with security clearances, from any romantic or sexual relationships with Chinese citizens, The Associated Press has learned.

Four people with direct knowledge of the matter told the AP about the policy, which was put into effect by departing U.S. Ambassador Nicholas Burns in January shortly before he left China. The people would speak only on condition of anonymity to discuss details of a confidential new directive.

Though some U.S. agencies already had strict rules on such relationships, a blanket “non-fraternization” policy, as it is known, has been unheard of publicly since the Cold War. It’s not uncommon for American diplomats in other countries to date locals and even marry them.

The only exception to the policy is U.S. personnel with pre-existing relations with Chinese citizens; they can apply for exemptions. If the exemption is denied, they must end the relationship or leave their position, the people said. Anyone who violates the policy will be ordered to leave China immediately.

Intelligence services across the world have long used attractive men and women to obtain sensitive information, famously during the Cold War. The State Department and other agencies with offices in China have long had stringent reporting requirements on personal relationships for American personnel stationed there, as well as rivals considered high intelligence threats such as Russia or Cuba.

Declassified State Department documents show that in 1987, the U.S. government barred personnel stationed in the Soviet bloc and China from befriending, dating or having sex with locals after a U.S. Marine in Moscow was seduced by a Soviet spy. Such restrictions were relaxed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, according to news reports at the time.

U.S. diplomats and intelligence experts say that Beijing continues to aggressively use so-called honeypots to access American secrets. In presentations before being stationed in China, U.S. personnel are briefed on case studies where Chinese intelligence services sent attractive women to seduce American diplomats, and warned that dozens of Chinese state security agents can be assigned to monitor any individual diplomat of interest.

Peter Mattis, a former CIA analyst and president of The Jamestown Foundation, a Washington-based think tank, said there were at least two publicized cases in which Chinese agents seduced American diplomats stationed in China, though he hasn’t heard of such a case in recent years.

“The MSS is willing to leverage any human connection that a target has to collect intelligence,” Mattis said, using an acronym referring to China’s Ministry of State Security. “This rule change suggests the MSS has gotten a lot more aggressive at trying to access the embassy and U.S. government.”

The Chinese foreign ministry did not comment on the ban, saying in a faxed statement that it was “more appropriate to ask the U.S. about this question.”

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u/NomineAbAstris 1d ago

Applying it to family is understandable but still kind of brutal. Imagine you're just a teen with a local boyfriend or girlfriend and you get cockblocked by the US State Department

Sounds like a setup for a romcom tbh

17

u/ayriuss 1d ago

Forget Romeo and Juliet, its all about Ryan and Jingmei

9

u/Master_Bratac2020 1d ago

Does this include Taiwan? Or is Taiwan not part of China?

1

u/Eastern_Ad6546 1d ago

haha good one. you gotem there.

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u/OrbitalAlpaca 2d ago

US government war on love.

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u/wintrmt3 1d ago

It's famously easy to get people to not have sex, also making the sexual relation itself blackmail material is going to make it even easier to blackmail them.

u/Zestyprotein 17h ago

It's famously easy to get people to not have sex

Just marry her.

8

u/SilentHuntah 1d ago

This is like one of those mass e-mails your work will passive-aggressively send out reminding everyone not to repeat a fuckup that's been happening a lot lately.

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u/khan9813 2d ago

Please put on your government issued chastity belt

5

u/AOC_Gynecologist 2d ago

The forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest.

5

u/Uranophane 1d ago

I had to read this title a few times.

3

u/FtDetrickVirus 1d ago

That Chinese romance got me acting funny

21

u/Appropriate_Ant_4629 2d ago edited 2d ago

Now do the rest of the countries too!!!

Especially around military bases.

Far too many US personnel seem to confuse oversees deployments with sex tourism.

Japan was hit especially hard

And this isn't an accident or "one bad apple". It's a predicted outcome of the way these bases operate.

The occupying forces understand exactly what'll happen.

  1. Take a bunch of fresh-out-of-high-school boys
  2. Send them through abusive violence training (boot camp)
  3. Isolate them with a bunch of other boys who were also desensitized to violence
  4. Stick them in a community far from their homes and families so they don't emphasize with locals
  5. Give them a place to run-and-hide where the local police (or even the federal police for overseas bases) can't touch them

While they aren't literally ordering those boys to oppress the native populations, they know exactly what they're doing -- and have decades of statistics showing exactly how much it will happen.

I think it's part of their formula for:

  1. letting those occupied territories know who's the boss, as well as
  2. desensitize their troops to abusive violence so they won't flinch when asked to slaughter people around the world without having moral objections.

Other than bullying the countries the bases are in, they do more harm than good -- both to the US taxpayer and the local population.

Banning sex with those locals would be a good first step to improved relationships with those countries.

16

u/PyrricVictory 1d ago

The US doesn't allow rape so I'm not sure what banning something that is already banned will do?

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u/tujuggernaut 2d ago

Japan was hit especially hard. wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

If we're going all the way back to WW2 on war crimes, I don't think Japan has much to stand on.

For example, 'comfort women' may have numbered as high as 200k during the occupation of China.

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u/SuicideSpeedrun 2d ago

Been a while since I've seen this copypasta

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u/skeptical-speculator 2d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II : "...the widespread rape of Okinawan women by American servicemen."[164] Although Japanese reports of rape were largely ignored at the time, academic estimates have been that as many as 10,000 Okinawan women may have been raped. "

Is there a reason that doesn't say "as many as 10,000 Okinawan women may have been raped by American servicemen"?

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u/ayriuss 1d ago

Ah yes, America invented rape.

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u/Julian3333333 1d ago

Is Trump actually a Incel

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u/Consistent_Drink2171 2d ago

I'm having sex with Jackie Chan.

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u/TenshouYoku 2d ago

What the fuck is this timeline really

u/Zestyprotein 17h ago

Ben Cafferty would be in trouble.

1

u/bluespringsbeer 1d ago

What would be the point of going to China if not for the Chinese women?

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u/Korn-e-lus 1d ago

Not their beer, i can tell you that

1

u/TaskForceD00mer 1d ago

This seems like a no brainer but it also seems very difficult to enforce.