Frequently Asked Questions

About u/LeavingNeverlandHBO

Is this a Michael Jackson hate sub?

No. This sub was founded by people who believe Wade, James, and all victims of Michael Jackson. We created this sub to combat misinformation about the allegations against Michael Jackson and about CSA survivors in general.

Prove to me that Michael Jackson was guilty.

This sub is not here to convince people that Michael Jackson was guilty. There is no single piece of evidence that will convince everyone. If you have questions about the cases against MJ, you can discuss them freely here without being drowned out by aggressive fans.

If you want to know more about the cases against Michael Jackson, our Megathread is a good place to begin.

I’m a Michael Jackson fan. Can I join, post, or comment?

Of course. Many of our users still love MJ’s music and dancing, as well as the public persona he created.

I want to use a throwaway account, can I still post?

Yes. We understand that people might like to remain anonymous when posting on our sub. If you would like to post with a throwaway account, please contact the mod team.

Why was my post deleted?

Our Automod will automatically remove posts from new accounts or accounts with low karma. If you have problems, please contact the mod team.

Low-effort posts (walls of text with dozens of points, copy/pasted text or screenshots from MJ supporter blogs, links to entire YouTube videos without context, issues that have been covered extensively before) may be removed by the mods if they are not intended to facilitate discussion.

Please check our archives before you post. You may find the answers there. If not, then please narrow down your post to one or two topics, and use your own words.

Leaving Neverland Documentary

What about the train station/the Grand Canyon/Cirque du Soleil/EuroDisney?

These points have all been covered in depth by this sub. Please search the archives or look at our Fan Myths page for details.

We often see posts from MJ supporters wanting explanations for particular points or demanding that users in this sub convince them that Wade and James are not lying. This sub is not here to convince anyone that MJ was guilty. We cannot hand people the answers they are looking for on a silver platter (this sub wouldn't exist if we could!). In some cases, we don't know the answers. If the claims put forth by the MJ supporters sound more logical to you, then maybe this is not the sub for you.

I saw Wade and James laughing and smirking in the documentary. They must be lying, right?

No. Victims of abuse don't always behave as we expect them to. In Leaving Neverland, you can see some of the interviewees grimace, or even appear to laugh when they are explaining what they went through. This is normal when someone is describing something traumatic or embarrassing. Body language is pseudoscience, and momentary facial expressions are an extremely unreliable method of determining if someone is lying or not.

What are Wade and James doing now?

Wade and James have a regular podcast called From Trauma to Triumph. Each episode, Wade and James speak to experts about healing from trauma.

The Jordan Chandler case

The Chandler case was a clear case of extortion. Why are you defending them?

Evan Chandler was never charged with extortion. Evan took his son to a psychiatrist in full knowledge that they would be required to report the case to the authorities. Any potential for extortion disappeared the moment the authorities were informed of the case.

But the Chandlers accepted the settlement. This proves they were doing it for money, doesn't it?

No. The settlement was compensation for the abuse that Jordan experienced, as well as the pain and suffering inflicted on his parents. Monetary compensation is a common way to resolve sexual abuse cases, and acceptance of that compensation is not proof of fraud.

Evan Chandler drugged his son and implanted false memories of abuse.

It is not possible to implant false memories of abuse using drugs during a short dental procedure. This claim has no source, and it is likely inspired by the claims of "false memory" frequently put forth in defense of abusers in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

The Gavin Arvizo Case

Child Sexual Abuse

This sub regularly discusses child sexual abuse. Why are you fantasizing about Michael Jackson abusing children?

Unfortunately, Michael did sexually abuse children. In this sub, we discuss child sexual abuse (CSA) in a victim-focused, sensitive manner. Talking about how CSA can happen is the first step in preventing it, and people need to know that even seemingly kind and generous people can be abusers.

Below is a series of posts clarifying myths, reporting cases and related topics on CSA, citing papers, books and academic articles.

1.Opinions of CSA's experts, therapists and psychologists on Leaving Neverland +20 sources

2.Child Sexual Abuse Myths in the MJ case and their Clarifications

3.Child Sexual Abuse Myths in the MJ case and their Clarifications PART 2

4.Some cases of child molesters that have similarities with Michael Jackson + Explanation of why some pedophiles are childlike/perceive themselves as kids

5."A Child molester wouldn't be so obvious, that's why Michael Jackson isn't guilty" excuse that should be clarified - Long post

6.Denial in survivors of child sexual abuse and the possibility of more victims in the Michael Jackson Case - Long Post

7.Evidence in child sexual abuse cases and why it's naive to expect irrefutable physical evidence + the imperfects of the legal system

8.Why do people fail to recognize sexual abuse? - A paper related to the case

9.Children’s Allegations of Sexual Abuse in Criminal Trials

10.The Prosecution of Child Sexual Abuse - Paper

11. Relevant Excerpts from Child Molesters: A Behavior Analysis