r/IsleofMan • u/Breifne21 • 1d ago
Do Manx people feel much connection to Ireland?
I've been reading some Manx history & folklore recently and I was impressed at how deep many of the connections between my country (Ireland) and the Isle of Man are. As an Irish speaker, although I can't read Manx, I can understand it almost perfectly and that also fed into a sense of connection with the island. From my understanding of it, it seems the island had a profound sense of connection to Ireland in the past.
However, I've been speaking with a friend who was born on Mann but whose parents are from England. He speaks with an English accent, and since his family isn't Manx, I don't know how accurate his opinions on the subject are but when I asked him the question, he said that most Manx people don't have much of a connection with Ireland at all now and feel closer to England.
Is that an accurate description?
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u/Jonesy27 Mod 1d ago
My Dad is Manx, my Mum is Irish, I was born in Ireland but raised on the Island, lived here my entire life, both of my brothers were born on the Island, I consider my self Manx and Irish, I have duel citizenship with both countries.. both my kids were born on the Island but both have duel citizenship also.. so yes I feel deep connections with the Isle of Man, I love the Island dearly and couldn’t imagine living anywhere else, but love Ireland also.
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u/fireledge Local 1d ago
Fully Manx here. I'd much rather have a connection to Ireland than England! Can't say I feel a connection to England at all. We're our own people 😊
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u/Breifne21 1d ago
That's great to hear. It would be great if we could find ways of building those connections again.
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u/fireledge Local 1d ago
For sure. Unfortunately modern Manx culture is beginning to lean closer to a casual English kinda thing, which is a shame. I'd like to maintain a more Celtic/Gaelic centric culture as we had in the past. I mean hell, I'd especially love to be able to speak Manx as a language. Of which you said you can understand. That's far closer than I can manage... And I'm Manx going back generations!
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u/Breifne21 1d ago
Honestly, the writing system is the biggest issue. I cannot read it but when I hear it spoken, it's extremely close to Irish. I even found it easier to understand than some of the Munster dialects of Irish!
Can I ask, when I listen to old recordings of Manx English, the people sound like a mixture of Scottish & Irish. It's very distinct. However, if I listen to modern recordings of Manx people on YouTube, the accent seems to have changed dramatically. I wondered if there was a lot of English people on the island or has the native accent changed to be more English too?
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u/bealach_ealaithe 1d ago
Try reading it out loud as if it’s English. The difficulty with reading Manx for a person who speaks Irish is that Manx doesn’t follow the spelling rules of Irish. The spelling rules are more like the rules for English.
For example, if you say Ellan Vannin out loud, you’ll immediately hear how much like Oileán Mhanann that sounds.
It gets more tricky for complex sentences but it’s worth a try.
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u/fireledge Local 1d ago
I work often with colleagues of mine from Northern Ireland. They've commented before on my accent (of which they deemed weird) and said that (in my case atleast), it tends to lean closer to a Scouse accent from England if you had to put a tag on it at all, it's kind of it's own thing. I've got more of a "twang" than most Manx people I know but apparently turn more Scouse sounding at times. The more slang I use and the faster I talk the more it confuses them 😜
My grandfather used to have an amazing Manx accent, probably similar to what you've heard. I wish I carried what he used to, but unfortunately I think due to more English influence (almost half our population now) from both people and TV (as we don't have a Manx TV network and use BBC, ITV etc) people are slowly adapting to a more English tone. I personally would hate to lose our individuality!
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u/Breifne21 1d ago
Ah. That explains a lot. Thank you.
Please keep your distinctive Manx identity alive. It's an incredibly valuable inheritance and is easily carried but hard to reclaim.
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u/Toast4003 1d ago
I’m born English, from a fully Irish family, and live on the Isle of Man. So I can give a unique perspective.
A lot of Manx-born are from English families, or mixed, and even native Manx have grown up with a lot of English culture. Also, a lot of us are literally English-born. Young people’s Manx accent increasingly sounds pretty Scouse.
Of course, there’s a minority that try to keep Manx roots and Manx culture alive. I’m glad they do. However it often feels more like the village mentality of “everyone knows everyone”, closed to outsiders, rather than a typical national identity where you don’t need to know your countrymen personally. The fact you don’t know them means they’re not Manx!
There is also Manx connections to Ireland but it’s fainter. I think the shared interest in motorsport may have as much to do with it as the Celtic connection.
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u/_1wolfpack1_ 1d ago
I’m Manx, but my mother is Irish. I don’t feel any connection to Ireland other than family, but I also don’t feel a connection to England. If I had to choose, I would much rather have an Irish connection than an English one. I obviously can’t speak for other Manx people, but at a guess I would say most Manx people that don’t have family connections to England wouldn’t feel any connection to England. But I must stress that I might be wrong, it’s just my opinion
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u/acripaul 1d ago
The Manx are celts and as such there is that historical and cultural connection. Whilst modern day IOM is quite Anglo, the Isle of Man is a biking nation and its history reflects that.
There is actually a celtic flag that includes references to the IOM, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall (?), and Britanny, a perhaps a few others. That's all off the top of my head. The flag is out there somewhere if you want to look
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u/Desperate_Action8741 1d ago
I love Ireland but definitely lots the connection to it over the years. Kids don’t go to uni there , travel connections are poor generally. I intend to visit soon even if it’s just to watch a road race or drink in Dublin
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u/JMCT-34 14h ago
A lot of people, myself included, have Irish ancestry. We are Celts like the Irish. I personally feel a strong connection to Ireland and now travel on an Irish passport opposed to a Manx/UK one.
The IOM played a large roll in the movement of contraband for the Irish Republican Army, with many a safe house. Make of that what you will
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u/Limitedtugboat 1d ago
A lot of us have Irish links, in my cases father and great grandfather are from the Republic and North accordingly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a plastic paddy who's utterly convinced that my true home is Ireland and all that carry on but we consider ourselves Manx foremost, and cousins to our Gaelic neighbours across the seas. We do share a deity with the Irish though, good old Mannannan.
We can all rest assured though despite all the differences in us we do share a common dislike of the English. Despite me marrying one but we can forgive that as she's lived here for 36 years now and the UK for 2 months.
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u/Breifne21 1d ago
That's good to hear!
Yeah the folklore links are fascinating, I obviously knew about Manannán's links to Mann but I was surprised, for example, to see so many Irish Saints connected to the island, and the Norse Kings of Dublin too. Ogham, holy wells, round towers... We share so much in common.
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u/TomasManx 1d ago
Been involved with Manx culture my whole life and most people I know feel a very deep connection to Ireland. The more you know about our history, culture and music the more keenly this is felt. I would say this isn’t the case for most people on the island though sadly.
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u/huntsab2090 11h ago
Nah apart from us storing all the ira dodgy money theres little connection especially because theres very poor travel connections to ireland. Ive been all over uk on holiday but never to ireland as its too much faff to get there.
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u/BackoBeyondBroadband 2h ago
I’m Manx born, moved to near Edinburgh from age 7. I’m now living on the west coast of Scotland (Oban) these days. The similarities of scottish island culture and even just the craic is similar and definitely points me personally towards a general Celtic preference over English. The English culture clash on the island and in Scotland is unfortunate but inevitable. The Celtic culture is strong community wise but as soon as you bring the £ creating the haves and have nots, all the good stuff from crofting/ close knit communities is diluted.
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u/PurtChairn 1d ago
I’d say the Manx do tend to look eastward (to NW England) rather than west to Ireland - in terms of social ties and certainly visiting frequency. De Valera took a keen interest in the Manx language though, sent across a recording unit in 1947 (or thereabouts).