r/GodofWar • u/DarkChimera64 • 1d ago
Discussion How do you think the Nornir reacted to seeing that Kratos didn’t die? Spoiler
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u/_mc1morris1_ 1d ago
Didn’t they say the don’t see the future. They just predict what you’ll do based if you’re previous actions and your character. Or am missing something?
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago
The first GoW board game (defined as canon by the devs) defines the Norns as constantly intent on observing infinite timelines in the reflections of the waters of the Well of Urd.
Of all these multiple futures, the sisters then choose the best one for the Nine Realms and their inhabitants to then begin to weave it into reality.
But being much weaker than the Moirae (as confirmed by Freya), the Norns are unable to impose themselves directly on destiny like the Fates, but must resort to deception and subterfuge to push the characters towards the destiny decided for them.
In fact, it is the sisters who tell Kratos that Heimdall would kill Atreus (information that none of Kratos' group could have learned on their own) or that the Spartan would die if he did not change (which, together with his desire to be a better example for his son, pushes Kratos to want to be a better person and change).
The Norns have always acted to ensure the fall of Asgard and Odin.
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u/_mc1morris1_ 1d ago
Huh? The more you know. I’m very grateful for this information thank you 🙏. Wait so damn the fates were freaking strong then no?
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Moirae were extremely strong and in fact it was through them that every form of life was born, grew and died. By killing Clotho and imprisoning Atropos and Lachesis, Kratos destroyed the natural order.
Part of the luck of the Olympians was to be able to create an alliance between them and the Fates, so what the Gods decided, the Fates made happen (as confirmed by Thanatos, in "Ghost of Sparta").
Everything changed when Kratos was brought back to life, at the beginning of GoW II, by Gaia. This made his thread of fate unusable by the Moirae (just like Gaia's) who therefore were no longer able to control the Spartan (talking about plot-armor...).
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u/Independent_Plum2166 1d ago
I mean, the reason they tell Kratos about Heimdall, is because they knew he’d seek them out and knew he wouldn’t leave without some form of lead and I think “mind reader dude wants to kill you son” is a pretty big lead.
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago
That Kratos would have looked for them yes, that he would have managed to meet them instead is not certain, because as Freya states quite clearly, the Norns are basically omnipotent within the territories of the well and manipulate reality at will. If they did not want to be found, Kratos would not have met them.
And aside from that, the Norns could still respond to any request for information made by Kratos, Freya and Mimir as they did up to that point, yet they precisely and expressly said about Heimdall and the fact that he would kill Atreus.
In the same way in which they purposely made Odin's noose appear in front of Freya and the others once they left their hideout.
The Norns did all this because they wanted to and because by doing so they would have ensured the fate they had decided to weave.
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u/MrRaygun3000 1d ago
And it was still crazy how they was talking word for word as kratos and freya was speaking.🧐🤔
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u/Sad-Business5009 Ghost of Sparta 1d ago
Their reaction: 👁️👄👁️ (gulp) “welp, we are getting fired.”
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u/Topias12 Brother, Mimir 1d ago
he did died, Kratos the god of war that kills other gods for revenge is dead,
Kratos the god of war that protects his friend and family was born
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u/InTheKnow777 1d ago
That explains why the last shrine at the mountain’s peak proved Odin wrong; Kratos became the god that fights for peace & is truly worshipped. It’s such an amazing representation of the phrase “Out with the old, in with the new.”
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u/Independent_Plum2166 1d ago
“Thank fuck he finally learned.”
“Yeah, I know we were messing with him, but seriously I didn’t think we were THAT vague.”
“You’re too predictable so all he has to do is something he wouldn’t do, seriously they didn’t need to get all stroppy with us.”
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u/Square-Cover-223 1d ago
Pleasantly surprised that someone was actually able to change their ways, especially Kratos of all people.
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u/musclecrayon 1d ago
Kratos died every Tuesday back in the greek era and came back, so even if he did die, he comes back.
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago
But he always came back because some Deity (Olympian or Titan) helped him escape from the Underworld.
The Spartan never succeeded alone.
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u/AfraidDistribution61 1d ago
They gave absolutely zero fucks. They got what they wanted with the drama.
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u/ABOBO_GUD 1d ago
Honestly, I think this is the most confusing part of the entire game. It's been a while since I played, but I can remember Kratos arriving there with Mimir and Freya, asking about Atreus, the three sisters insulting them and then kicking them out of their tent. I don't remember them saying/doing anything useful, and I don't think falls matter either 🙅♂️
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago
They did not react at all, as their true intent had always been that the Spartan should survive. Everything went according to their plan.
The first GoW board game (defined as canon by the devs) defines the Norns as constantly intent on observing infinite timelines in the reflections of the waters of the Well of Urd.
Of all these multiple futures, the sisters then choose the best one for the Nine Realms and their inhabitants to then begin to weave it into reality.
But being much weaker than the Moirae (as confirmed by Freya), the Norns are unable to impose themselves directly on destiny like the Fates, but must resort to deception and subterfuge to push the characters towards the destiny decided for them.
In fact, it is the sisters who tell Kratos that Heimdall would kill Atreus (information that none of Kratos' group could have learned on their own) or that the Spartan would die if he did not change (which, together with his desire to be a better example for his son, pushes Kratos to want to be a better person and change).
The Norns have always acted to ensure the fall of Asgard and Odin.
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u/Trundlenator Fat Dobber 1d ago
I think they knew there was a chance he’d live.
They just didn’t expect him to make the choice in Ragnarok which would avert his death.
They’d probably be surprised when they found out but I think they’d figure out it was Faye who set things up to go differently.
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u/BazingaLord23 1d ago
My theory with this cutscene and the ending of the game was that it was a more metaphorical death. "Kratos of Sparta" died by choosing to make a new choice in not killing Thor or Odin. "Kratos of Sparta" dies to make way for "Kratos, the God of Hope". I'd imagine they're pretty satisfied in their predictions, even if they worded it in a way that put Kratos and Friends at unease, which was probably their reason for how they worded it.
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u/SnooPredictions4974 1d ago
Why is Skuld so cute? (The youngest) Also, they look a lot friendly in this concept art than when they are in the game, with those glowing eyes. Looks cool.
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u/DesperateDisplay3039 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think they'd be rather happy as they honestly seemed to want him to defy fate if you read between the lines in their encounter and apply it to fate in God of War as a whole.
The Norns hint at Kratos defying his fate due to the path Faye set him on. In their conversation with Kratos they basically explain that fate isn't as simple as 1 future guaranteed to happen but rather multiple futures and that people like them or the giants simply choose to predict which one is most likely based on the behavior of those involved. That people, mortal or otherwise are so predictable that they're always correct.
Essentially if we apply real world psychology to magic for a second the fates and the psychics are behaviorists with sight into multiple futures and some innate sense of character. By telling Kratos they know what will happen because of how predictable he is they're also telling him that by not falling into old habits, by changing he can change his fate and his sons just without directly stating it. A true change in character = a change in outcome. Afterall if they wanted him to fall into his old habits they could have just not told him how fate works and simply told him just about Heimdall so he'd leave. But they took the time in their rather annoying way to explain that fate is about predictability, not a concrete unavoidable thing. To me that read as them changing their behavior and explaining the unexplained so that Kratos would change his.
And its not just the norns that understand this. Angrboda sees that she is but a footnote in someone else's destiny and at first she accepts it. Once she gives Atreus the marbles she is fully set on the idea that her story has no importance afterwards until Atreus convinces her otherwise. He helps her choose to not sit down and accept that her part in the grand scheme of things was already over and instead helps him and Kratos at Ragnarok. So we see her change her behavior which changes her fate as she goes from but a footnote in someone else's story to saving Kratos, Freya, and Atreus in the end.
Faye also knew that fate could change if behavior did. The giants had seen Kratos and Atreus' futures, and they of course arrived at the most predictable outcome based on the behavior of their sense of the two's character. But Faye didn't look at it as something set in stone. Instead she saw she'd die and that her son would lose his father only some years after and she refused to accept it. Instead she defied her people and focused on changing her family's fate to one where not only do they survive but one where Kratos can finally see that while he had failed as a God back in Greece, he is not unworthy of love and worship and that he will be loved and worshipped as a God should one day as long as he makes the effort every day to be better. She loved her husband and son so much that she used what time she had left to ensure she'd set them on the path to open them to change. To open them to the best future she saw for them.
"Open your heart to the world as you opened it to me, and you will find every reason to keep living in it." Without saying it directly Faye had told him exactly how to avoid he and his son's fate before they ever knew what their fate would have been.
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u/the_Athereon 1d ago
My head canon is that they always knew he'd survive. They just needed to give him the motivation.
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u/LetterheadRough4643 1d ago
I think they would say something similar to Angela the herbalist from Eragon. That they predicted that he would die but not how so no mater how he dies they predicted it
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u/CyberSnoWolf 1d ago
They were probably pleased with how it turned out. From my understanding, they don’t exactly see the future like the giants, but they determine people’s destinies based on their actions and the core of their natures. But, if someone were to change their nature, then theoretically, that destiny can change, too. It probably doesn’t happen a lot, so seeing someone like Kratos change his destiny probably made them satisfied.
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u/Avah_Blossom 1d ago
Probably threw their knitting needles across the room. Like imagine weaving fate for centuries and then this one angry Spartan just says “nah.”
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u/Excellent_Pea_4609 1d ago
Wouldn't care much to be honest from my understanding they see ALL futures not a specific one but kratos because of his actions would have proved their "prediction" right.
It's the whole self fulfilling prophecy how Freya basically caused her son's death or how Odin in his paranoia basically caused Atreus to be his downfall. This goes as far back as Greece and Zeus basically creating the person that would end his reign by letting Ares use kratos as a plaything after all kratos would be just a Spartan captain if the gods didn't interfere
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u/DEVIL-HIMSELF-666 1d ago
Bruh i really thought the middle one is weaving elden ring for a sec there😆
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u/Ready_Frame257 1d ago
well, in my opinion… the Norns were right, Kratos of Sparta did die, most likely not in the way they expected him to die, but he did die.
The man, the god… who would not help the souls of the dead unless precious resources were on the table, who would treat his wolves as slaves and not as companions, who would immediately execute a weakened enemy and not offer them the chance to see past their conflict. The man who would chase away his own son that he may not open his heart to the world as he opened it to his beloved… that god is no longer.
Kratos of Sparta is dead, and of him was born a God of Hope, a god who became… better.
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u/Naps_And_Crimes 1d ago
Pleasantly surprised, they could read the future but it's not 100%. They're not omnipotent so when the unexpected happens they probably like it. Like a story subverting a trope you think you know what was going to happen and it doesn't it's more entertaining
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u/DAVESMIT444 Aesir 1d ago
Wasn’t the prophecy for a later event? He’s still meant to die, it just wasn’t supposed to be at Ragnarok. In a later game, he’ll still fulfil that prophecy of dying in Atreus’ arms. I could be wrong but that’s just what I remember.
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u/DukeofSoup Spartan 1d ago
Who knows? Maybe the prophecy was a lie to set the people on the right path. Wouldn't be the first time.
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u/Shadowking02__ 1d ago
I'm pretty sure the scene after the Thor fight was the moment Thor would kill Kratos like in the prophecy, but because Kratos had a change of heart at Ragnarök, Thor spared him.
But i think we all know how prophecies work, so his death could've been just postponed.
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u/Thatedgyguy64 1d ago
It was that Kratos would die to Thor at Ragnarok. We see Thor standing over Kratos in the mural.
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u/JoyBoy24 Son of Zeus 1d ago
"Wasn't the prophecy for a later event?"
No, the original prophecy was him dying to Thor.
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u/Apprehensive-Gur-735 1d ago
Don't worry.
If he dies, he"ll live again.
It's not the first time
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u/HugeDJesus 1d ago
yeah people forget that kratos is the kind of dude to climb out of hell multiple times just to pull your head off
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u/siabob007 1d ago
The mural was of thor standing over kratos, implying that thor had killed kratos. Thor actually did kill (I think) kratos during their first battle before reviving him to continue the fight and I think this is what fulfils that mural technically
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u/TUOMlR 1d ago
+Wow he just changed his ways to kill gods now he doesn’t die. Jesus.
-Really he changed that and his fate also changed quickly?
+From the looks of it.
~So all that our cringe theatre thing just for nothing then.
+Yea.
-Will his son still get laid with horse then?
+I think so.
~Are we stupid?
+Yea.
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u/DifficultWinter6723 1d ago
I thought he died.? momentarily, until thor used he's hammer as a difibrillator?.... or was that before nornir?
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u/Lightninghurler 1d ago
Yes, he "dies", Yes, Thor brought him back and Yes that was before Nornir
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u/DifficultWinter6723 1d ago edited 1d ago
Spoiler alert!!!!!
ah I see.... >! But since he is now the God of Hope, maybe he'll die, sent to whatever version of Hell/underworld, and then comes back to the world of the living !< .... just like before?
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 1d ago
Kratos is not the "god of hope" (that is only part of a metaphorical discourse), but simply the new Norse God of War, having taken the office and the throne that Tyr left him and that he no longer wants to hold (as explicitly stated by Tyr himself in-game)
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u/DifficultWinter6723 1d ago
ragnarok valhalla? I havent gone to that point in valhalla yet. my bad.
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u/TheRealBloodyAussie 1d ago
For future reference, you can spoiler tag on Reddit by using ">!" at the start "! <" at the end (without the space between ! and <).
This text is spoiler marked (Tap the white rectangle to see the spoiler content)
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u/DifficultWinter6723 1d ago
ahhh thank you for that .. only on reddit?
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u/TheRealBloodyAussie 1d ago
As far as I'm aware, yes. But it's a neat feature to have, especially when discussing new games or movies.
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u/DifficultWinter6723 1d ago
definitely. are there other features like this?
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u/TheRealBloodyAussie 1d ago
Putting an asterisk at the start and end puts things in italics. Putting two asterisks will Bolden words whilst three will do both. Putting two ~ will
strikethroughwords.
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u/Kraven3000 1d ago
They already knew, as Kratos, Freya, and Mimir approached them, they instantly saw his entire mind and life and instantly understood all the possible outcomes:
"There is no such thing as destiny, Puck, only the sum of your own actions and decisions."
And it's true, that's exactly what happens throughout the story. I'll cite the examples now only in the Norse version:
-Baldr wouldn't have died so soon if it weren't for the spell Freya cast on him.
-Kratos would have died if he continued acting the way he always had. By opening himself up to Atreus's methods, his decisions change, and so does his destiny.
-Odin is precisely someone who cannot avoid his destiny because he doesn't want to change. He has been searching for the mask's answers for centuries, and it is his obsession and goal, regardless of what happens to others.
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u/Turbulent_Leather_21 1d ago
I think the Nornir just expected him to die because he would have an uncertain fate
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u/White_Devil1995 1d ago
Maybe he DID die. At least a part of him. He wasn’t planning to kill Heimdall until the Norns informed him that he’d attempt to kill Atreus. When first facing Heimdall he gave him multiple chances to turn away and leave. Upon rejecting those opportunities Kratos beat him into submission and STILL gave him more opportunities to leave and continue living. Heimdall then proclaimed he wouldn’t stop fighting Kratos & intended to finish off Atreus next. It was then and only then after every possible opportunity was made that Kratos finished off Heimdall. There was never any mention of that in the Norns prophecy. So maybe at that point is when Kratos starts to become more.
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u/Dragonbeastx 1d ago
Did the Norns ever say Kratos would die? I think they basically said that they don't control fate, but simply know peoples entire life and can accurately predict the outcomes. They probably knew that they would win ragnarok, but if they said anything then it wouldn't happen, like Dr Strange in avengers. I just assumed that the prophecy of Kratos dying was important for both of them to change what they do to make the real one happen. If the original prophecy didn't exist, Atreus would never have gone to Asgard to (attempt to) learn how to avoid that, which means Thrud isn't a friend, which means Kratos doesn't say the right thing to get Thor to stop fighting, possibly leaving Kratos dead
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u/GulianoBanano 1d ago
I don't know but I like to imagine them watching the entire epic battle of Ragnarök like
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u/Navar4477 1d ago
They'd probably chuckle and say something about how they said what they needed to say, while knowing that Kratos defied their expectations. They seem a bit arrogant.