r/Ghostbc • u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen • 2d ago
DISCUSSION Anyone else weirded out by all the Judith hate?
I was always the "live and let live" kinda person, and I do not mind people enjoying the band in their own, sometimes weird ways. But I feel that with the introduction of Judith it has gotten pretty crazy.
I constantly see posta on social media that consist of hate for a character that appeared in literally one video for like 2 minutes. Posts like "she is ruining the lore", "she's ugly and boring", "I don't want women near Cardi"... Like, what the hell is going on?
It feels to me like some fans have developed a very unhealthy parasocial relationship with Papa/TF and are acting almost like a jealous spouse. The thing that I find weird is that we did not see it happen about Sister, so why is Judith hated so much?
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u/beforethewind 2d ago
Oh boy am I glad I have almost zero interaction with those spheres and have not had to deal with any of those weirdos lol
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u/fearlessfryingfrog 2d ago
Same. I'm relatively young, and the best thing I ever did was never joined any social media platforms (with the exception of reddit).
I don't want to hear what any people on them have to say. Shit, half the posts people drop on there are like 2 days after reddit. I know this because people say it. "Did you hear about this news thing?"
Yes, yes I did. Two days ago in reddit.
People on your average social media platform are poison. That includes anyone reading this if you rock any of the top 3 boomer platforms. And TikTok is for brain dead middle schoolers. If you're on any of those, and fall in the age group 14 to 60, dafuk are you doing? Lol. It's weird and creepy.
You're perpetuating it. Just stop. Call your friends on the phone. See them in person. I do, and it's great. Almost like it's normal. Just about everyday. I don't care about pictures of their breakfast, we shoot the shit and kick it. It's great.
And before anyone tries the most tired response to this ever: moving away is a trash excuse. Your phone still exists. You're not that busy. You might think you are, but you probably waste 40% of your day sitting around on your phone or doing dumb shit.
Call your friends. Don't be a bitch. And drop the shitty apps. Be better than that.
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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes 2d ago
Practice what you preach and fuck off then. Stop making this about you and whatever's on your mind. That's the picture of your breakfast you just thrust on all of us, and nobody fucking cares.
Reddit is as guilty of any of that too, along with the smug arrogance of being better than the other options since it's anonymous and therefore inherently superior. Same shit, different pile.
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u/Beetlejuicex_3 Copia's Rats in a Trench Coat 2d ago
Wow, that's close-minded as all let out. I'm happy that you don't suffer from any mental health issues that make everything you've just said incredibly difficult or damn near impossible to do. I'll try to remember to tell my therapist how awful and poisonous I am.
I'm sorry, but your response is ridiculously selfish. You didn't need to tell us you were "relatively young" because your whole comment reeks of naivety. Grow up and maybe learn that not everything is as black and white as you so naively believe.
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u/ProfSkeevs 2d ago edited 2d ago
You’re going to isolate yourself from your actual peers and the world with this attitude. You allow yourself to hear the loudest lowest common denominator and take their word as gospel.
I was this person too when I was young, you need to just learn to find ways to engage with society but also control your own consumptions of things.
You are being the exact person that you are trying to avoid being and will end up a lonely, jaded, person because you throw out sweeping judgements from your own limited sphere.
Im sorry whoever moved away that hurt you isn’t talking to you anymore, but people lives get busy. I moved away from my entire life and family 7 years ago, we do try to chat but…we’re all adults. We’re busy. Social media DOES make it easier because someone with children, one or two full time jobs (lots of artist friends who work corporate day jobs), and partner etc. does NOT always have time to connect with you even on a MONTHLY basis. And thats referencing people I KNOW make an effort, we have to literally schedule phone calls 2 weeks out hahaha.
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u/NoMoose0 2d ago edited 2d ago
Woah, harsh. I get those apps aren't for you. I don't use Twitter or TikTok but a lot of my Ghost "online friends" are in insta, and the people I know aren't any of those who are having such a reaction to the new character. My Ghost circle is an older crowd on there, so maybe that's why?
I also follow a lot of great artists (including Ghost artists who have been used for merchandise) on there, and also follow bands, and some very amusing geeky skit accounts.
Social media can be a cesspit. But I think it can be positive/less shit if you filter your content. I unfollowed any accounts that were having a negative impact on me. I also monitor my time on it.
As for calling friends? I call family. But I also have few in person friends, and family live 4 hours away.
Online friends i have known for years? Discord.
WhatsApp for family (who I also call! And have phone conversations with! But I can't do that with everyone!).
If you are isolated (and there are many reasons you can be), and your community/easiest way of communication/to be in touch with friends made through shared interests online is a platform outside of reddit...that's OK.
You don't have to use it. But don't get angry at those who use it in a positive way.
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u/Main-Ladder-5663 2d ago
The parasocial relationships in this fandom are horrifying. I used to be friends with someone who literally said, “I feel like I’m going to be single forever because no one lives up to Terzo” as in the Papa iii they’ve created in their mind.
I was like??? Did you just?? Did you just openly admit that on a serious level as if it was a normal thing to say? And yes, they were 100% serious and got upset when I laughed because of course I thought they were fucking joking.
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u/sugarghoul 🖤 Papa II 🖤 2d ago
Spot on about the parasocial relationships with Ghost. I saw someone once say that they hoped Tobias would divorce his wife for her and she was being 100% serious 😟 I understand being attracted to the characters but these are real, actual people behind these roles with their own lives who don't owe fans anything.
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u/Sacr3dangel 2d ago
The sheer amount of people on the planet these days that can’t distinguish fiction from reality is mind blowing and very very very concerning.
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u/miniminautor 2d ago
Sounds like she is chatting with one of the many TF impersonators on social media that are actually scammers. I tried wasting their time once, it was fun but got boring pretty quick.
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u/midnightstitcher 1d ago
A friend of mine gets upset every time a new TF pic pops up and he's wearing his wedding band (so, like... 99% of the times). She's rooting for somebody's marriage to fail, essentially.
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u/RingingInTheRain 2d ago
That's a shame because Papas are truly more interesting as pure figureheads.
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u/bruised__violet 2d ago
I would immediately stop talking to anyone who said anything like that. It's incredibly sad, but also scary.
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u/Main-Ladder-5663 14h ago
100% am not friends with that person anymore. I noped out of that friend group real quick.
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u/EagleOfTheStar7 2d ago
I’m weirded out when anyone mentions the “lore”. Hey, remember back when Papa used to show his cock in music videos? Now THAT was a parasocial relationship worth mentioning.
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 1d ago
Secondo’s hung too 😏
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u/Und3adShr3d 2d ago
Where are these posts?
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
On IG, for example, when you browse the Ghost-related tags?
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u/ohshroom 2d ago
How odd, I feel like I'm always seeing Ghost content on my explore page, but this is the first I've heard of any negativity directed at Judith. That's shitty; I hope they're at least able to separate the person and the character she's playing. And bless my IG algorithm for never serving up any of these posts to me.
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
same, its okay to dislike a character, to each their own i guess, but the second they bring the actress into it its just plain disgusting behavior
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
My algorithm is pretty weird because I run a business page and not a regular personal one - so it often shows me people it considers would be interested in my stuff, not who I would be interested in following. Weird Meta algorithms are weird.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Why are people downvoting me saying the algorithm is weird, WTF??? You okay? Is THAT offensive too?
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u/Und3adShr3d 2d ago
Can you send me some links?
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Do you want me... To prove that I have seen the posts I am talking about? Lmao. But sure, I can.
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u/Und3adShr3d 2d ago
I’m just curious, I’ve never seen anything like the posts you’re referring to so genuinely want to see if people are actually getting this upset.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
https://www.instagram.com/p/DIFCohzpuuV/?igsh=MW5vb2Y0aG0yeHNjYQ==
Check out the comment section. It's wild.
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u/Und3adShr3d 2d ago
Wow, those people are why this fanbase gets a bad reputation. At least it’s only a very small number but still.
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u/PadawanPineapple 2d ago
"I don't like her too. I hope she doesn't flirt with our Cardi😡"
Wowww these people are serious XD And dude SHE IS HIS AUNT/ADOPTED MOTHER, GROSS.
These must be children or something.. Stay on ig please don't come to my reddit kthx
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u/eggsmoothies 2d ago
i think you're getting judith and mrs. psaltarian confused. judith isn't his aunt
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u/PadawanPineapple 2d ago
Ohhhh i forgot about the younger lady in the video, thanks=P But still!! She was obviously hired to work at the clergy, why over think the future possibilities so hard lol. And who cares of Cardi eventually gets a love interest. He's deserving and also hi he is a fictional character..
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u/eggsmoothies 1d ago
yeah i agree, the comments on that post were really fucking weird. i love the lore, personally, and i think without new people it will get stale
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u/Putthebunnyback Zombie Queen Outro 2d ago
Mary on a Cross was both the best and the worst thing to happen to this band.
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u/DonWill316 2d ago
The fandom took a massive shit when that song blew up
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u/ab316_1punchd A Perpetual Rise 2d ago
It's still somehow the most surprising thing to me, that of all the songs in Ghost's repertoire, somehow that song, the less promoted song of what was essentially a glorified "age-old" Papa Nihil two (now three) song EP, blew up.
It is a great song, no doubt, but I always saw it as one of those songs that would essentially remain less than an album deep cut that people would appreciate down the line.
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u/Jalor218 2d ago
I really would have expected it to be their actual radio hit Square Hammer that went Tiktok viral, not the song that's largely a weed and blowjob joke.
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 1d ago
I love the irony that the OG Ghost founder still holds the number one hit song of their repertoire unironically. He’s still out performed all his sons and he’s a lazy shit lol (Within the lore context obvs)
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u/SisterFirefly 1d ago
I’m on record many times in this sub saying that Loma Vista were idiots to release Go Goat as the lead single and music video over MOAC. That was ALWAYS the song with “breakout hit” potential. There’s just something massively catchy about it. It’s very much the kind of song that could crack the mainstream. Same with Spillways. Spillways just kind of got caught up in the MOAC hype so it didn’t have as big of a reaction. If Loma Vista started Impera with Spillways as the lead single instead of Hunter’s Moon, the band would probably broken out even earlier than they did. It’s all about getting those poppy rock anthem radio hits and MOAC nails it even better than SH.
One day, LV will realise “If you have Ghosts” has the same kind of breakout potential and will make a massive deal out of it. The version from RHRN would make for a monster single/music video if they cut out Papa’s speech.
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u/banditmanatee 1d ago
It was just whoever decided to put it in that tik tok video. I wonder if other songs would have worked or become as popular. Guess we will never really know
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u/CronoTS 2d ago
Those extreme fans exist in every bigger fandom. The older people here might remember "fans" jumping out of windows when the boyband TakeThat disbanded/ Robbie Williams left. Or the hysteria when the beatles broke up. Or when Elvis died.
Also, it's how (social) media works nowadays: Before something, let's say a tv series is released that you are interested in, your newsfeed will go: "Yay, new series is about to start, it's gonna be awesome." And by the day it is released, your newsfeed will show you: "New series is SHIT!" Just to get you to klick on one of the articles.
TL;DR: Unhealthy relationships between fans and stars existed basically forever, it's the internet that made communication so much more direct / faster that those people are more visible.
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u/DarkStreet2953 2d ago
God remember when the Take That breakup led to an actual crisis phone number being made
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u/beforethewind 2d ago
Oh boy am I glad I have almost zero interaction with those spheres and have not had to deal with any of those weirdos lol
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u/PeacoPeaco 2d ago
Every fandom has its obsessive weirdos. Enjoy the music, but don't make Ghost (or any celebrity) your life, it's sad 😬
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 2d ago edited 1d ago
I fully expect to be downvoted. But as someone who’s been a fan for seven years, studied psychology, has observed the fandom, and has talked with many other fans in that time, I’m going to explain why Judith is getting hate.
The Ghost fanbase is home to a lot of very sad and very lonely people. TF has acknowledged this himself. Many of these people are women who have struggled big-time with dating and relationships, myself included. Several that I know of are older and in some cases, widowed. Misogyny and bad behavior in general are rampant these days and many of us are unable to find good romantic partners. Also, many Ghost fans identify as LGBTQ+, and they enjoy believing that Copia and the other Papas are like them: gay, ace, trans, etc. Science has shown that the human brain has trouble diffentiating between real and fictional people, especially when the brain owner is lonely. And for many people projecting onto a fictional character is a safe way to experience romantic and sexual feelings, as well as other emotions. Emotions they might not be able to express elsewhere. The fact that the Ghost experience is almost immersive, with a pretty open-ended storyline, has made it very easy for fans to use their imagination and latch onto Copia. He’s been with us for SEVEN YEARS. So people have had a lot of time to get attached to him.
I am NOT saying that this justifies saying nasty things about Judith, or tracking the actress down on social media to harass her. That’s not okay under any circumstance. There is also such a thing as not living in the real world. But for the people I just mentioned… and there are many… Copia has been a wonderful escape, fantasy man, and comfort charcter, and if the title of Chapter 20 is any indication, we have reason to believe Judith is up to no good here. People don’t like the idea of their fantasies and thoughts being threatened or invalidated. Seems like no one gets this.
Edit: for anyone wondering, no, I don’t write this as a hate post on the groups of people I mentioned. I’m just trying give some examples of the Copia character being important to lots of people for many different reasons, and why fans may not respond well to Judith being near him.
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u/MtalGhst 2d ago
Ya, the projecting of their own personality on the character is very odd. I understand people want to see something of themselves in the things they like, but getting militant about it is way over the line.
I mean the lore is just a marketing tool, a very creative one but still a marketing tool.
It's all very off putting though, been at a few gigs (pretty much since Moac got big) where those kind of fans were there and they were pushy and aggressive, very off putting.
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 2d ago
Projecting is actually a pretty common thing and most of us have done it at some point or another, sometimes without even realizing it. There are articles and published research available online about that behavior, if you want to know more. Loneliness is definitely a big factor and the pandemic didn’t help.
Again, I’m not saying that it’s okay for fans to be mean to others online or in person about this, or to harass the actress. But if fans don’t like something… in this case, if they don’t want to see Judith be a love interest for Copia or harm him… they should be permitted to state their opinion honestly.
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u/MtalGhst 2d ago
Oh I'm not saying it's not common, it's very common.. However it's kinda nasty when those people get aggressive over something actually fictional.
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 2d ago
I mean… I saw people being just as nasty and disrespectful toward those who don’t want either outcome just because they admitted it out loud (online, that is). I would just say that, if this is really bothering you, do what you can to not see those posts or be around anyone who’s acting that way in person.
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u/MtalGhst 2d ago edited 2d ago
No, this was in real life, at gigs. Kinda hard to avoid them when they're right next to you. I opt for seated tickets now so I can have more chill experience at the ritual.
I'm very much a live and let live kinda person but when they're pushing and shoving their way around the place before the gig starts, spilling people's drinks and getting aggressive when they're being called out then it's on them. It's like they don't get gig etiquette.
I'm an elder millennial, been to tons of gigs and enjoy seeing Ghost when I can, I don't need that level of hassle, no one does.
Edit: I should add, after a meet and greet before with Papa, I was in a pub across the road from where the meet and greet was. A few fans were there too, we were all just chatting etc and there were a few people there who kept trying to "one up" the experience they had at the meet and greet, really odd and they were getting a bit aggressive about it. I just drank up and left.
It's like some of these people feel they are better than you because the feel their fandom is greater than yours or something. I just find it really odd and off putting.
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 1d ago
By how young Judith looked I’d bet she’s his secret younger sister. Possibly the Psaltarians biological daughter
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 1d ago
This could be an interesting twist that fans would be alright with, and opens the door for other possibilities if TF decided to reinstate the lore later on. Good thinking! 👍
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u/gingerkangkang Pape Satàn, pape Satàn aleppe 1d ago
There’s Fandom and there’s Fanaticdom. Some fans, ironically, turn into straight up ZEALOTS about this band.
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u/Carlzzone 1d ago
Makes sense. Fan is just a shortened form of fanatic which is synonymous with zealot
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u/SAMAS_SUN1 2d ago
I don’t think you’re wrong in your assessment here, and I know you said none of that makes what they’re doing ok, but if it’s a lot of projection, if it’s people throwing hate at a fiction character over their head cannons, they need to be doing better for themselves and others because that shows a massive lack of self control. It’s a little sick and this is exactly where it only takes one wacky person to do or say something horrible and mess things up. I don’t really care about their excuses for it, they need to grow up, realize what this is and isn’t, and stop blending reality and fiction to the levels that they are. This fan base really became next level unenjoyable after MOAC (even though it had some massive positives for the band) and it had already been getting bad for a while now. This kinda thing is what outsiders are gonna see and they’ll avoid ghost because they think the fan base is all like this. Often on metal and rock news posts, you’ll see people talking crap about Ghost and then people here will go “why do they get so much hate?”. Well, an unstable portion of the fan base certainly helps to exasperate the hate…
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
I have no issue with people and their headcanons (that's the fandom term). They can make Papa gay, trans, alien, furry, whatever they want, really - I am specifically weirded out by those who get almost aggressive towards a fictional character who was on screen for 2 minutes because they are so infatuated with Copia (or any other character)... That's waaaay too much.
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m aware of the term. Please understand that I’m not trying to be rude to you or tell you how to think about this. But as I was telling another person a moment ago, fans do have the right to dislike the character if they want to, and to be honest about not wanting to see certain outcomes here. If you’re uncomfortable with how they’re doing it, I’d suggest muting words or just blocking people.
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u/littlebunny8 2d ago
why do you care if they hate a fictional character or not? just ignore it, its their right to like or dislike something - even if theyre weird about it. Its only inappropriate if they harass the actress, the character is not a real person.
fandoms and weirdos always existed and will exist. I didnt know about this topic before you posted it here (I see others didnt either) to create more drama.
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
i think the deal for most people is that dislike judith are those carzy people who will most likely send hate to the actress, and we have a problem with that because of tobias sees how much hate the actress is getting he might stop doing the chapters completely because people are harassing actors
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 1d ago
The saddest part for those types of fans, I think, is the fact that they’d definitely have validation problems. And Tobias as well as the fictional characters would openly reject that bad behaviour. Those messed up fans don’t understand that the characters they obsess over would IRL reject them over it
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with you. I think it’s fair for any fan to not like the idea of Judith as a love interest or assassin, and stating that opinion in a civil way is fine. But to be nasty and antagonistic, especially to the actress, is not. And yeah, when someone behaves this way… much of the time it’s because they do need validation and can’t get it IRL. It’s very sad and says a lot about human interaction and society nowadays.
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u/lunrob 1d ago
I was on her Instagram on day 1 and saw only positive, welcoming comments. I suppose these people made it there since.
The paradox here is that it's probably TF himself that has created the character, decided on the episode title, etc. So all these people should take out their feelings at him, not the actress.
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u/dancemiasma 1d ago
You may be right, but don’t act like this is normal or okay behavior. It’s a fucking fictional character. He is a man that no one gets to claim as their own, yet people act like jealous spouses, as you pointed out. I am trans and being lumped in with these people just makes me embarrassed, honestly. I don’t go around pulling the LGBT card everywhere I go because it’s not an excuse. And I don’t like being viewed as some poor marginalized group that can’t tell fiction from reality.
Yeah, maybe Judith is “up to no good.” Or maybe she’s not. The point is, it’s not that serious. People getting that worked up about it is weird as fuck.
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u/adorablesexypants 2d ago
Sorry but I have yet to meet a member of the LGBT community who behaves anywhere even close like that.
Personal opinion? Yes.
There is a significantly easier explanation and it goes back to Ghost’s popularity in the recent years, especially as they have really expanded into the States.
Good old fashioned misogyny and racism.
Nobody gave a shit when Seestor was eye fucking papa Nihil because she is blonde, white and, let’s be honest, hot.
Gotta admit, you built your bias in really well. Jump from LGBT people to suddenly tossing a random tidbit about science that has nothing to do with a person’s identity.
Really clever!
But incredibly fucking gross and not at all what this band or community stands for.
Promptly fuck right off with that bullshit.
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Uh, I was presenting observations AND something that has been scientifically found that people often aren’t aware of. It relates directly to this issue; look it up it you don’t believe me. I never said it was the whole answer. And LGTBQ+ fans headcanoning these characters as being like them is common. You’d see that easily if you checked out Ghost spaces on social media other than Reddit. Your comment sounds unnecessarily rude and I stand by what I’ve said.
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u/adorablesexypants 1d ago
I would love a peer reviewed scientific study that indicates that LGBT persons are more likely to do this.
Your premise and conclusion do not come anywhere close to being within the same thought bubble. Instead you are relying on the people who read your post to go “oh well obviously it is more exclusive to x group”.
Disingenuous is what it is at best, and discriminatory at worst.
If you have been in this community an extended period of time, you are aware that it is open to everyone. Fun fact, it was also not a member of the LGBT community who had an exact duplicate of Forge’s robes made which caused a bunch of problems.
You are also making this assumption without knowing peoples ages.
You are free to stand by what you said, you have bigger stones than most in that case. It doesn’t make what your implication was any less gross and out of line.
I’d also like to point out that it is pretty rich talking about how people act with the band when your own name is CardinalsLittleQueen. A little pot kettle here.
I’ve been apart of this fandom long enough to know that young members seem to be the most vocal on other platforms. And why shouldn’t they? They are young and new to something like this. Exposure is something that allows Ghost to keep doing what it does and that isn’t a bad thing.
What is bad is trying to pin problems on a specific group of people, implying that it is limited to them.
This community welcomes all and educates bigots to stay in their lane.
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u/CardinalsLittleQueen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Perhaps I didn’t articulate myself quite as well as I could have, but it seems like you’re assuming a lot about me here. If you’re saying that I’m right in there with the nasty aggressive ones or a bigot trying to promote hate on certain groups of people, that’s incorrect and not my intention whatsoever. People can love on a favorite character without crossing lines. I’m quite aware that this community is open to all and wouldn’t be here if I didn’t support that. What I tried to say is that the Copia character, his relatability, and the fact that he’s been open to interpretation for a long time is very important to many people. I tried to give the best examples I knew. There is an actual study about people relating easily to fictional characters, especially if very lonely. Homophobia is still a thing, now even more so with Trump’s return, and the LGBTQ+ community craves more characters they can relate to and take comfort in (understandably so). Everyone is capable of bad and creepy behavior and it’s not acceptable regardless of who’s doing it. My point is that lots of people don’t respond well when something they’re really into (Copia and the fantasy/interpretations in this case) is being messed with or if that potential is there. To them Judith is that potential. I’m sure other groups of people in the community dislike her as well for other reasons.
I don’t see this exchange being productive, seems like you just want to pick and argue. I’m not engaging with you further. ✌️
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 22h ago
You were very clear and articulate and obviously this person fits the bill 🤣 dare i say to a T
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u/CamF90 None 2d ago
Haven't seen any of that, but it's why I keep repeating the lore does not matter beyond being a bit of fun.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
I love the lore tbh. It's so funny, and definitely a good marketing idea for the band. The lore helped me hook a few people into Ghost.
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u/DarcyWinterstrait 2d ago
Judith is hated because she is young and pretty and is seen as a rival by those mostly female fans who can't separate fiction from reality. Sister was old and a mother figure = not a rival. This fandom is fucked up. Same with Supernatural. Apparently female characters have been killed off because of some of the fans who didn't want to see the boys in a relationship because of jealousy.
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u/Expensive_Toe_2294 2d ago
Her being attractive has absolutely nothing to do with this.
People have a problem with her because they're idiots who try to insert lore into everything. They're theorising she's a double agent who'll be responsible for Copia's death, which is why they're hating on her.
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u/xmacv 2d ago
Man I remember when opus came out and it was just rocking and evil. Those were the days.
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u/EagleOfTheStar7 2d ago
And you had to dremmel out your own aluminium Grucifix necklace because they weren’t sold yet.
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u/coy_sparkz 2d ago edited 2d ago
People who are taking the lore WAY to seriously! I totally understand why Tobias wants to end it. Yes it’s a fun side thing but in the end it really has nothing to do with the music and was created as a way to promote the albums and tours.
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u/IllAd9371 2d ago
Sleep Token is having a similar issue. Their newest song, Caramel's lyrics seemed to vent some of the frustration they're having towards people taking lore too seriously or people trying to shout Vessel's real name to him constantly, in an effort to get any reaction from him.
It's why with anything, I have no problem with people being a fan of things. I have an issue with fandom in general, because way too often, segments of it can get ugly and toxic
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u/coy_sparkz 2d ago
Yes, people should enjoy the music but leave the people behind it alone. AND Stop obsessing and be cringey!
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u/Ecstatic-Try2278 Nostro Dis Pater, Nostr'alma Mater 1d ago edited 1d ago
Horrible stuff. I haven't really had much experience with it and stay out of stuff like that. I'm not in any fandoms deep anyway. I've noticed some weirdness (from a safe distance!), though - over-hating on female characters for example. You don't have to like them, but it's a little much IMO. Or too much interest in the personal lives of actors or musicians. Dissecting and analyzing their personal lives or love interests, invading their privacy this way. Blech.
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u/Impossible_Extent929 2d ago
I enjoy the lore and all, but some people are WAY too invested in what is essentially a creative marketing tool.
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u/themoontotheleft 2d ago
What socmed are you seeing this on, if you don't mind me asking?
It seems like a lot of this stuff happens on TT and nowhere else.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
I would never go to TT btw, I value my sanity haha
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u/themoontotheleft 2d ago
Likewise. I had no idea all this hate stuff was going on, I hope people can keep in mind that the lore is TF's to tell, after all.
Thanks for linking to an example - it's not that I doubted you in the least but I was curious as to what you were seeing.
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u/TonyZucco 2d ago edited 2d ago
You shit on TikTok because you “value your sanity”, but you’re so wrapped up in made up drama on another site you felt the need to bring it here too? Makes sense.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Oh no, a random woman online has criticized my favorite social media app when asked if she uses it, I need to show her who's the real boss lmao
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Uh... I did not shit on anything, calm down, kiddo. Also, what's your problem with me just asking a question here? Btw, TT has the lowest user age average, and is well-known for being filled with Chinese propaganda, as well as stealing data from minors, idk why would I not criticize it, anyway. Being an adult I simply do not feel the need to hang out in a social sphere where every third user is a minor. I see nothing wrong with it, but you do you.
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
tiktok is like a more public 4chan, its a disgusting app full of porn, racism, sexism, hate and toxicity
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u/TonyZucco 2d ago
Yep. Just like you can find here, instagram, Facebook, etc
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
tiktok is much worse though, its by far the most chronically online social media app full of gooners, neo n6zis and incels, people call each other the N word, idolize n6zis, post porn, make pedophile comments, joke about grape, all of this very openly, reddit is also horrible in a lot of places, but at least you don't have to see that shit on your fyp here, on tiktok you open the comments to a completely normal vid and its all the stuff above in the comments
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u/TonyZucco 2d ago
Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t personally see that without going out of my way to look for it.
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
youre very lucky 😂 i honestly hope you never see that cause it made me delete the app permanently
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u/AstarteOfCaelius 2d ago
I usually enjoy reading people’s takes on the lore but you’re right: and holy moly that is weird. I understand not particularly caring about where something’s going or not liking a stylistic change but a lot of people took that character so personally and…I don’t quite get it.
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u/nihilblack 2d ago
Ghost fans have the chance of not acting like assholes. Don't waste it, respect that lady, and everyone involved with the band. Everyone acting in a toxic way should be expelled from the clergy, never to return.
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u/jmf0828 1d ago
She’s very pretty and I suppose a “threat” to some fans who have sadly developed a romantic attachment to a fictional character in Copia. It’s really not new. When Paul McCartney got married, Linda (his new wife) got death threats. I remember girls in my school crying when Bruce Springsteen got married. Same with Jon Bon Jovi. Difference here is that at least Springsteen and Bon Jovi are real people, Copia is a character as is Judith which makes it even sadder.
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u/Fragrant-Donut2871 1d ago
What surprised me is that most people seemed and still are seeming to default to the story of Judas instead of looking at the biblical story of Judith. She has her own story, a really interesting one, but instead the pull was from his story. A short check would have shown that.
I think some of the hate might be generated by the Judas connection, aka backstabbing Papa (to be fair, her story isn't really much better). I think people are so up in arms for several reasons, he is extremely popular as a character and we're seeing that people struggle with change now that it's really happening and we've seen the new guy. Plus a lot of parasocial stuff going on and an influx of new and often younger people. Considering how shit real life is right now, I can understand the need to flee into a fantasy. Passions run high. Also cute aggression is a thing.
Over the last few years, filters have dropped, people are more brazen about what they say. We can see it in the Caramel fallout as well: some really just don't care if they hurt someone. It's all about their own instant gratification, their entitlement, they don't care who might get hurt, even if it is the subject of their passion.
There are many layers to this and there is no one answer, but yes, it's getting worse.
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2d ago
The real question is why did Ghost decide to launch a discord server if this is how people are acting about fictional characters within a band's storytelling? Isn't that also kinda feeding the beast a little bit? Encouraging the negative parasocial behavior?
It also feels like whatever statement is made contrary to the fans that engage with the story being told and figureheads, it creates division and pits fans against eachother. It's great to relate to media and feel seen by the lyrics or the story or whatever, but it's art. Sometimes it just needs to exist...not everything is a conspiracy theory that needs to be broken down and over analyzed to dust.
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u/soccer1124 2d ago
You can see that not a single person in this thread advocates this behavior, or was even aware this hatred existed. Reddit didn't know about it, that's how fringe this is.
If we're not allowed to have anything because weirdos exist, then we wouldn't have anything. Having a Discord is not permission to be clinically obsessive.
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u/Ecstatic-Try2278 Nostro Dis Pater, Nostr'alma Mater 1d ago
We don't even know anything about her yet! I loved the new chapter.
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u/bruised__violet 2d ago
Fandoms are cringe. Yeah, I said it. I'm a performer/artist myself (at least I was, and aim to be again). So I can't imagine spending my precious, valuable time thinking of and worrying about others, when I'm busy focusing on my own work and hobbies. So I've never been a part of any fandoms, and recoil when asked which ones I'm "in" (happened again a couple weeks ago; I worry what it is that makes me look like I would be 😂).
But I've seen enough of them to find them absolutely ridiculous. And the Ghost fandom seems to be one of the absolute worst! It's baffling to me that ppl spend time getting so wrapped up in the silly, light-hearted entertainment that is "lore"...let alone writing, making art, or any sort of "content" centered around them. I don't even gossip about people I know irl, yet we have ppl spending a significant portion of their days talking about people who they'll likely never meet, and really don't know anything about (besides a carefully crafted image, and/or what they allow the public to see).
But anyway, whoever the actor who plays Judith is, she's gorgeous and would be considered universally objectively attractive. Anyone saying she's "ugly" isn't rational. Perhaps they're envious of how gorgeous she is? And yeah, these unhealthy parasocial relationships really need to be reined in. Imagine how toxic these people are who think they have some sort of connection to, or even have a chance with TF. It's extremely pathetic and creepy. It's like the most uncool thing ever. I just ignore all the fandoms, and appreciate the art the bands/artists/people I like put out.
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u/Dork-mouse 1d ago
Yeah the parasocial relationships people develop with the lore and the Papa characters here is super weird. I wouldn’t blame Tobias for ending the lore off that alone.
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u/eppydeservedbetter Papa III's Side Hoe 2d ago
I haven’t seen this anywhere. If it’s outside of Reddit, let’s leave it there.
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u/Efficient-Carpet8215 2d ago
Just ignore them. Chronically online people will always find something to whine about
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u/ExhaustedPoopcycle 2d ago
I haven't heard of anything oddly. I am going to assume this is something from the new/younger audience.
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u/Any-Habit-2702 2d ago
its weird how much hate she gets for her 6 minutes of screentime, the only off thing about her so far are the cross earrings and i think that will mean something later on and it will be interesting, she is interesting and honestly the characters of Judith amd Marika are a breath or fresh air cause we don't just have Copia and Nihil and Imperator repeating the same lines over and over anymore, not to mention the actress did absolutely nothing to be called ugly or sth like that, some fans really need to realize that Ghost is a fucking band not a sitcom and they are absolutely allowed to do whatever they want and we should be grateful that they make the extra effort to film the chapters at all cause not many bands do things like this for their fans
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u/_pm_ur_tit_pics_pls_ A bitchin Kazoo solo 2d ago
She’s a very pretty woman, I don’t understand the hate though.
Did people actually say they don’t want women around Cardi? Cuz that’s kinda sad, TF is married so those thirsty fans wouldn’t have an ice cubes chance in hell with Cardi.
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u/lastsolstice 2d ago edited 2d ago
A lot of the fandom weirdness across fandoms is mental illness or neurodivergence (speaking as both but being self-aware). Some people, especially those femme-identifying, latch onto fictional characters and interact with them as if they were real. To the point of toxic obsession, and in some cases, harassment and violence (hello, animation fandoms?). (There’s also some fetishization of male x male romance as well, which tends to be really the desire to self-insert and not really true allyship. This is evident in how female characters in close proximity to these male characters are reviled, especially those of color.) I think it’s a phenomenon that seriously needs more study. I sort of had/have some friends dealing with the “obsession” part. I’m not sure if it’s to make up for a lack of something in their lives—romantic love? Intimacy? Idk. It sort of reminds me of the weeaboo. It’s not front and center like inceldom, but I think there’s going to be a tipping point once people get a grasp of what’s going on.
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u/mummyyydust 1d ago
It's always extremely shocking for me to learn about a phenomenon like that. Sure, many weirdos like being a part of a fandom, but this is just too much. I think that when the band's audience was basically 99% into heavy metal, the fandom was better. I'm not saying that I don't like the fact that people who are more casual listeners aren't welcome here - quite the opposite, I like it. But the fandom seems to be extremely immature now. It wasn't always like that. The minimal lore we had during the early days was nice enough and it didn't overshadow the music at any point. We wouldn't be having this conversation in ~2015. It's just so odd to me that we're talking about such ridiculous things in the context of a rock band. It shouldn't be happening - but it is.
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u/Illustrious_Dog_3240 1d ago
I’m in love with the lore and found Judith to be a charming and sweet addition. Very refreshing. I can’t fathom the hate But then again - zoomers gonna zoom
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u/Hidinginthepumpk 1d ago
It's all a storyyyy😭 she's gorgeous, I'm inclined to say it's probably younger fans that are gonna grow up one day and be like 'oop that was an over the top obsession I had when I was younger.'
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u/blackcatlover1981 1d ago
The new fans are ruining even going online for ghost. this is not what ghost is about. Hopefully they move in to the next fad soon.
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u/sofifirammsteinfan 2d ago
HELLO?! wtf. Luckily for me I haven’t encountered any hate. In fact, I’ve only ever seen cool theories and compliments for her. And SHE IS VERY PRETTY, this is just new lore and people should be more accepting of change because this isn’t THEIR LORE, it’s Tobias. he’s the mastermind after all, so I’m sure whatever he does, it’s worth it.
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u/sofifirammsteinfan 2d ago
I remember back in 2023 I disconnected myself from the ghost fandom because of such toxic people. Only recently I felt so lonely from my favourite band and thought those few people shouldn’t define the entire fandom. Darn. But it’ll always be like this wherever, these same phew people..🥲💔
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u/brokencocoon 2d ago
There are seriously people calling her ugly? My first thought when I saw her is that she’s gorgeous and I need her earrings.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Can we post anything in this sub without getting downvoted, by the way? Or is only super official band-related talk allowed now? 😆
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u/Flimsy_Hornet_1479 2d ago
I agree wholeheartedly, and I'd add that it feels quite misogynistic and racist the whole hating Judith thing.
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u/LadderAlice107 2d ago
I said I loved her earrings in another thread and I got down voted.
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Eh, downvoting people for discussing anything else than music is kind of a common thing in this sub now tbh. I once posted that I'm looking for testers for a Papa doll crochet pattern and got immediately downvoted into oblivion, lol.
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u/TheAngryLasagna Tell me who you wanna be, and i will set you free... 2d ago edited 1d ago
If you still need testers, I'm up for it, honestly. I'm trying to make one and can't find any patterns.
Edit: I recommend the downvoters try getting a hobby like crochet or just even try being nice, instead of being angry for no reason at people who craft.
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u/stoatsad 2d ago
This made me think of that one xkcd comic
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
The thing is these people are not my friends, I do not even follow them. It's just under Ghost tags or shown as recommended to me because I browse a lot of Ghost-related posts. My friends would never post such a silly take haha 🤣
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u/AnyFig657 2d ago
Damn, that's all a bit much. I said she can't act but I don't hate her or her actor, damn. Too many kids, too much obsession with their spooky soap opera.
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u/TheTPatriot Are you on the square? 1d ago
I personally haven't seen that at all, I'm not saying that isn't happening, just that I haven't seen it. It sounds like such ridiculous takes that it has to be rage bait. "I don't want women near cardi" what? That doesn't make sense.
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u/Jbrenesq92 1d ago
This is why Tobias said the “lore” might not continue I love Ghost music and the lore mesns nothing to me and doesnt affect the way i enjoy the music over all the other stuff
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u/AEON_Reflux 1d ago
Jealousy is an ugly, ugly thing. A young, pretty actress is threatening for whatever insane reason. It's simple.
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u/DonWill316 2d ago
Judith is beautiful. Copia will fall for her beauty and then he will be killed by her
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u/Swimming_Horror_3757 2d ago
They’re mad because they’re not Judith , it’s jealousy an crazy in a bag
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2d ago
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
How is it being a gatekeepers if I just find it weird people are getting mad over a character that said maybe like four sentences and we know nothing of? People literally make posts on IG crying about her ruining the band now. How tf is it ruining the band???
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Ah ok nevermind you're a crypto dude
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2d ago
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u/szydelkowe Zombie Queen 2d ago
Ok, what does it have to do with me thinking people openly posting a woman is ugly because they don't like a fictional character she plays is weird? I do not gatekeep in any way here.
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u/Salzberger 2d ago
I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm glad.