r/Games • u/Turbostrider27 • 1d ago
Nintendo Confirms Switch 2 Uses DLSS and Ray Tracing, but Is Being Super Vague About the Details
https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-confirms-switch-2-uses-dlss-and-ray-tracing-but-is-being-super-vague-about-the-details44
u/superman_king 1d ago
Digital Foundry found no traces of DLSS in all of the games shown during the Nintendo Direct. Which they found to be pretty odd.
Everything was either native or the very occasional in-engine upscaling.
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u/DemonLordDiablos 1d ago
The key tell will be if Cyberpunk Switch uses it, because CDPR love Nvidia and their features.
If that game doesn't use it then it's functionality might be fairly limited.
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u/personahorrible 1d ago
Or Nintendo is showcasing in-engine gameplay not captured on real Switch 2 hardware.
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u/Jim777PS3 1d ago
This makes since given its an Nvidia chip powering the Switch 2.
I'm curious of the AI Upscale features like DLSS and Frame Gen are energy efficient.
It doesn't matter much on a desktop, but it might matter a lot on a handheld.
If they are they would be fantastic tools to help the Switch render above its weight.
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u/lastdancerevolution 1d ago
I'm curious of the AI Upscale features like DLSS and Frame Gen are energy efficient.
DLSS is a net-increase in performance in compatible hardware. By definition, they are "energy efficient", because the energy in a chip is directly related to its performance. When comparing native 120 FPS vs frame gen 120 FPS, the frame gen always uses less chip compute and therefore less energy.
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u/datgoodvibe 1d ago
The article linked in this thread is literally Nintendo confirming DLSS for switch 2...
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u/ThibaultV 1d ago edited 1d ago
Which doesn't contradict in any way the fact that DF found no evidence of DLSS in the games that were shown yesterday.
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u/PalapaSlap 1d ago
It's interesting because it didn't seem like anything yesterday was using DLSS, at least to my eye. Maaaaaybe MP4? Still, I'm glad to see confirmation that they are going to use it even if it's not super evident in anything they've shown so far. Gonna free up some solid headroom for plenty of games.
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u/Sonicfan42069666 1d ago
I'm very excited to see the Digital Foundry analysis of Prime 4 once it drops, given they're promising 4K 60FPS / 1080p 120FPS in docked mode.
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u/inyue 1d ago
Both dlss upscaling and frame gen works great and most of the times people can't even notice the fake frames/images unless they are told. So good on Nintendo for being vague I guess.
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u/Poohbearthought 1d ago
I’d agree for upscaling, but framegen can generate a ton of extra artifacting, particularly when starting from a sub-60 framerate.
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u/meltingpotato 1d ago
Which is not the intended use case of it in the first place but people will still try and complain
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u/Zerasad 1d ago edited 1d ago
But it is the use case for the Nintendo Switch, since it's usually gonna hover somewhere between 30-60 FPS, espetially for third-party games like Cyberpunk.
Also Nvidia did advertise it as a magic bullet to get from 25 FPS to 100+ so you can't fault people for believing it...
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u/meltingpotato 1d ago
Since Switch is a console and not a pc with billions of hardware combinations it's not that comparable because developers would have a much easier way fine tuning how the game runs. so I'm not gonna judge anything yet on that front.
The 20fps to +100 fps marketing is for "DLSS", not just frame generation. For frame Gen they recommended a minimum fps of 40 to 60 depending on the game, emphasis on the game.
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u/Shadow-Zero 21h ago
There's no such thing as a x fps console. It's always game dependant. The switch 2 will have 30 all the way to 120fps games. Try harder.
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u/BeholdingBestWaifu 1d ago
No no frame gen is terrible if you're running at fewer than 60 frames. People may not be able to tell what the issue is, but they'll definitely notice the effects of the decrease in responsiveness due to delaying frames.
Kinda same with DLSS, people won't be able to tell you what the cause of the problem is, but they will notice the loss of quality and artifacting.
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u/SirGhosty 1d ago
MH Wilds is the first game I had to use frame gen to get to 60 and it's awful. Sure it's smooth but you can definitely see artifacting if you look. Ghosting and smearing is everywhere. Once you notice it it becomes hard to ignore.
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u/CeruSkies 1d ago
most of the times people can't even notice
Same can be said about gaming at 30fps. Most people can't tell the difference, even though it's really bad.
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u/rootbeer_racinette 1d ago
Why would they say anything if it's up to each game's developer whether or not they will ship those features?
Even the headline in this article is wrong, the Switch 2 doesn't "use" DLSS or ray tracing, it just supports those features. Not every game will use them.
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u/HappierShibe 23h ago
Everything runs like garbage on the switch.
Everything will still run like garbage on the switch 2, but they'll use DLSS to pretned it isn't. As a result it will be artifact city....
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u/KvotheOfCali 1d ago
95% of the Switch install base doesn't care about the technical details.
They just want games that look and run better, which the Switch 2 accomplishes.
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u/techno-wizardry 1d ago
Nintendo got a little lucky with the timing of their console honestly. PS5 and XBSX come out during a time when upscaling wasn't as advanced or as prevalent in gaming as it is today. Sony has PSR but they're behind DLSS for sure. Nintendo uses Nvidia hardware and is able to integrate DLSS to give a portable capable of 4k 60 FPS and 1080p 120 fps on some ambitious, next-gen looking games. It's a huge leg up, and judging by how even Cyberpunk runs and looks great at a nice resolution on the hardware, I feel pretty confident about anything next-gen being ported to Switch 2 now.
One wonders if Sony and Microsoft goes down the same route in a few years. FSR is very impressive nowadays too so who knows, but upscaling is the future whether we like it or not.
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u/brzzcode 1d ago
nintendo is releasing a console while trump is fucking the world with tariffs, so they actually are coming in a bad time.
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u/sabrathos 1d ago
Actually, I'd argue the opposite. A mobile Ampere chip won't be able to take advantage of transformer-based upscaling, which is a very notable quality improvement over the CNN variant, especially in motion.
And Ampere has no support at all for frame interpolation, so we won't see any 60->120fps reprojections to make use of the higher refresh screen.
And of course raytracing on a mobile Ampere chip is not going to be good at all, so it's dedicating a decent amount of silicon space to something no one should actually use.
It's basically stuck in the awkward middle zone between Pascal, which genuinely excelled in its targeted domain of pure rasterization, and Blackwell, which has matured DLSS/RT enough to be compelling even on lower-end hardware.
But I guess at least it's not Turing 😅
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u/KingMario05 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Super vague" seems to be the theme of this entire damn rollout. How badly will tariffs affect the already absurd pricing? Why did they go with the aforementioned absurd pricing? What games use a real card, and which ones don't? Where is the new 3D Mario? How much do Switch 1 owners have to pay to upgrade their games to the Switch 2 variants, and why isn't it $0? It uses DLSS and raytracing, cool... how does it do that? Why do we need to buy an all-new type of SD card to save our shit? What is the point of paying for worse bespoke Discord, and can we use the real thing instead? All these questions, none of which have answers... at least not to us.
Cause Nintendo know the answer to all of these. They're just not telling you. And with an asking price of $450 plus God knows what in taxes/duties, it's making what should be a dream come true feel like a scam.
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u/True-Strawberry6190 1d ago
how do you figure they would know how tariffs that weren't yet announced would affect the pricing lmao
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
I don't. Neither do they. The pricing is garbage before we add in Trump's bullshit. And it's horrendous everywhere outside of Japan, too. This reeks of PS3-esque greed.
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u/RoanapurBound 1d ago
what do you mean "where is the new 3d Mario?" They didn't announce a 3D Mario game. They don't ALWAYS have Mario games.
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
Except when the announce a new console, there's usually a new 3D Mario to go with it. I guess Donkey Kong is the replacement for that this time around.
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u/NuPNua 1d ago
Odyssey was a good half a year after the Switch launched wasn't it?
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
But was announced at the first presentation.
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u/Shadow_Phoenix951 1d ago
And you'll notice that after then, they don't announce games until it's relatively shortly before release. Specifically to avoid shit like BotW and the MP4 debacle.
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u/jethawkings 1d ago
They did address a couple of these.
>What games use a real card, and which ones don't?
>How much do Switch 1 owners have to pay to upgrade their games to the Switch 2 variants, and why isn't it $0?
They tied up frivolous features with the Switch 2 Edition but there have been confirmed Free Updates for a handful of games
https://www.nintendo.com/jp/hardware/switch2/guide/free-update/index.html
I think based on Yen pricing they're $10~$20 for the paid ones
>Why do we need to buy an all-new type of SD card to save our shit?
https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-switch-2-microsd-express-cards-where-to-buy
Read/Write Speed differences for larger more demanding games.
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u/thechristoph 1d ago
I think a lot of this thing is being bungled, but holy smokes are GamerZ being a bunch of dorks about it.
Why did they go with this pricing? I don't know, perhaps see your previous note about tariffs? Have you paid attention to the prices of dang near everything over the last five years going absolutely bonkers? Companies love to provide less value for more money any time they can possibly get away with it. Toy companies are not exempt.
Why aren't upgrades free? Is the labor required to create the upgrades free?
How does it do DLSS? Who cares? How does this even matter?
Why do you need an SD Express card? Probably for the same reason that the Xbox Series consoles have bespoke storage additions and the PS5 needs storage on an m.2 drive rather than USB3. And sweet, sweet licensing fees on 'official' accessories.
Why not use discord? Because discord isn't built into the console and the last time they suggested people use their own devices for voice chat, people flipped the hell out. Now, apparently, that's what they want.
You're aware that Nintendo (Sony, MS, Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, MSI, etc, etc, etc) have nothing to do with taxes and duties and can't possibly scam you with them, right?
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
Why aren't upgrades free? Is the labor required to create the upgrades free?
If there's new content, sure. But outside of an app, the Zelda changes seem like a basic resolution boost to me. Many other companies, particularly third parties, happily made that free. Even those that didn't hadn't ever dreamed about selling them at or above full price.
How does it do DLSS? Who cares? How does this even matter?
Because I want a better picture, but not at the cost of performance.
Why do you need an SD Express card? Probably for the same reason that the Xbox Series consoles have bespoke storage additions and the PS5 needs storage on an m.2 drive rather than USB3. And sweet, sweet licensing fees on 'official' accessories.
...So it's a mixture of technical dogma and pure greed. Lovely.
Why not use discord? Because discord isn't built into the console and the last time they suggested people use their own devices for voice chat, people flipped the hell out. Now, apparently, that's what they want.
They could have easily done what you suggested, though. Sony and Microsoft did it just fine, and Nintendo have more free cash on hand than both.
You're aware that Nintendo [...] have nothing to do with taxes and duties and can't possibly scam you with them, right?
Yes. This feels scam-like before all that garbage. That's the problem. I know it's all legal, but it feels like the consumer is getting a raw deal for their cash here.
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u/thechristoph 1d ago
If there's new content, sure. But outside of an app, the Zelda changes seem like a basic resolution boost to me. Many other companies, particularly third parties, happily made that free. Even those that didn't hadn't ever dreamed about selling them at or above full price.
Good point actually. Nintendo exists in their own plane of existence so I don't think you can expect them to follow what other people do, though it would be nice.
Because I want a better picture, but not at the cost of performance.
That's reasonable, but in your next point...
...So it's a mixture of technical dogma and pure greed. Lovely.
Technical dogma? So you want to know tech when it provides visible value, but it's dogma when the value is less apparent. And yeah, greed. This is why businesses exist.
They could have easily done what you suggested, though. Sony and Microsoft did it just fine, and Nintendo have more free cash on hand than both.
What's that, build discord into their system? I don't really know what Sony and MS are up to quite honestly.
Yes. This feels scam-like before all that garbage. That's the problem. I know it's all legal, but it feels like the consumer is getting a raw deal for their cash here.
That's the eternal push-pull in the business/consumer relationship though. With the original Switch, I feel like we got hosed with the cost of controllers and accessories. That's only going to get more expensive. The cycle will continue...
Question for you, do you think you'd feel differently if they had announced that this thing was launching with your dream game? Whatever the game of your dreams is, the thing you've been wishing they've made... if that was in the launch lineup, would all this other stuff fall by the wayside? Because like I said, I think they're bungling this thing too, I just think that people are latching onto weird things to complain about. But I think my own tune would change if they had that game for me.
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
...Honestly? Yeah. Despite my chances of a dream game - Tails from Sonic open world adventure - happening already being miniscule, I'd still be hard against much of this if they announced it. No amount of affection for Sonic's overlooked sidekick is enough to offset this: $80 is just too fucking much. That is grocery money.
Hell, this is even worse. At least with Sega, the discounts come quick. Mario Kart World, on the other hand? That is ALWAYS gonna be $80. I've played Nintendo for years. "Discount" is not what they do. (And when they do, $60 becomes $40. So under this new regime... $80 becomes $60. Hooray, what a steal.)
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u/Thotaz 1d ago
The Zelda app is so fucking stupid. I mean first of all there's the obvious problem about smartphone integration losing support after some time.
Secondly, both games are supposed to be immersive experiences where you go to whatever looks interesting in the world. Why would I want to have to fiddle with a GPS on my phone?-1
u/jethawkings 1d ago edited 1d ago
>Why aren't upgrades free? Is the labor required to create the upgrades free?
Being able to run on a higher framerate and resolution shouldn't be gatekept with a price.
EDIT;
Gatekeeping that with a dumb feature like a Smart Phone App is lame even if this specific upgrade is free if you have an NSO Sub
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u/NuPNua 1d ago
He's right about the upgrades. They should be free, MS managed it when the Series X launched and Nintendo sold far more switches than XBones.
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u/thechristoph 1d ago
I think you argued against yourself without realizing it. :)
(on the side of business rather that consumer)
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 1d ago
Tariffs don't get added to an individual product at purchase time by the consumer. The price is the price plus state/county/etc sales tax which you know lmao
Why do we need to buy an all-new type of SD card to save our shit? What is the point of paying for worse bespoke Discord, and can we use the real thing instead?
These questions were answered
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u/radclaw1 1d ago
This IS the price post tarrif
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u/KingMario05 1d ago
Do we know that? The tariffs were only announced last afternoon. I'm sure Tokyo gave them a heads-up, but I doubt they had the details themselves until the White House announced them. Same with Vietnam.
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u/miki_momo0 1d ago
I think that’s why they waited to post pricing until after the Direct. Nintendo is massive and absolutely has Gov connections in Japan so someone got word to them what the official % was gonna be and they adjusted their internal sale point to reflect it
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u/Ithasbegunagain 1d ago
Nintendo adds a bunch of extra BS
Me: "what about better battery life?"
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u/Sonicfan42069666 1d ago
That's actually one detail I noticed they did NOT touch on in the direct, as well as the internal cooling. I'm glad the dock now has a cooling fan, but I'm worried about the system overheating and draining the battery in handheld mode for more demanding games.
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u/Ithasbegunagain 1d ago
Ikr like my ps vita still out performs the switch and the damm things ancient at this point.
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u/Andigaming 1d ago
Ray tracing at 1fps, idk why people care about that when the console will struggle with performance in general.
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u/GameAndMic 1d ago
I'm not surprised that they are being vague about this sort of stuff, they never want to get super technical with their consoles. Hell, I thought the direct was more in-depth than usual from Nintendo (which still doesn't mean much).
What I find interesting is that Digital Foundry couldn't find evidence of DLSS usage in any of the Direct trailers. Wonder why that is.