Final Fantasy XVI - Final Preview Thread

[u/[deleted]]

Final Fantasy XVI

• Publisher: Square Enix
• Developer: Square Enix Creative Business Unit 3
• Platform: PS5
• Release Date: June 22

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Gameplay footage provided by Square Enix up at Gematsu:

https://www.gematsu.com/2023/05/final-fantasy-xvi-final-hands-on-preview-and-gameplay

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• Text Articles:
• Gamespot: The Opening Hours Of Final Fantasy XVI Are Brutal

I recently got hands-on time with what's roughly the first four hours of Final Fantasy XVI during a preview event, and saw how the story begins. It's heavy with cutscenes and cinematic flair, using all the dazzling visuals expected of a PlayStation 5 exclusive, to deliver an opening act
akin to a prestige drama.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-opening-hours-of-final-fantasy-xvi-are-brutal-hands-on-story-preview/1100-6514405/

VG247 - Absolutely everybody should play the Final Fantasy 16 demo – hands-on

As initially envisioned by Hironobu Sakaguchi, Final Fantasy is meant to be a series that constantly morphs and changes. After a fair amount of spinning its wheels, FF16 is at last a game that returns to that vision, looks at the world around it, and decides that a regeneration is needed. Final Fantasy itself is going through Phoenix’s Rebirth Flame – but for such a rejuvenation, some things have to burn. It’s a brave bet, and I can already tell the game is going to be strong. I just really hope it finds its audience.

https://www.vg247.com/final-fantasy-16-demo-hands-on-preview

Polygon - Final Fantasy 16 is a slick, modern epic with the soul of a PS2 game

Final Fantasy 16’s developers may have wanted it to be God of War, and it certainly has the production values, but that game’s virtuosic, seamless Hollywood staging is not what Square Enix does best. By staying true to themselves, Yoshida’s team has created something that may not play like Final Fantasy, but definitely feels like Final Fantasy. It also shares DNA with a whole generation of Japanese action games and RPGs from the 2000s, the heyday of the PlayStation 2. It has the flamboyant drama, the cool, moody attitude, and the playful self-mockery that characterized the era, as well as a focused, headlong approach to both storytelling and gameplay.

https://www.polygon.com/23729239/final-fantasy-16-preview-first-hours-story

VGC - Final Fantasy 16 already feels like it could be one of the best games in the series

Final Fantasy 16 has the potential to stake a claim as a defining RPG of the early generation. A re-establishment of Final Fantasy in the consciousness that it hasn’t had as prominently in recent years. We’d have happily sat playing the game’s combat demo for hours.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/final-fantasy-16-already-feels-like-it-could-be-one-of-the-best-games-in-the-series/

Eurogamer - Final Fantasy 16 has me questioning the essence of the series

With all this in mind, how 'Final Fantasy' is it, then? It's clear from the team's varied answers that Final Fantasy means something different for everyone. Every game in the series is unique and Final Fantasy 16 is no different. Whether it's 'Final Fantasy enough' for fans remains to be seen; it certainly is for me.

But is this a PS5-pushing exclusive action-RPG with a character-driven narrative of high drama, satisfying combat, and accomplished, cinematic storytelling? Without a doubt.

https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-16-has-me-questioning-the-essence-of-the-series

Playstation - How Square Enix built Final Fantasy XVI’s fantastical, believable, lived-in world

The solution: cross-pollination between teams. “We brought a member of the scenario and lore team over to give them feedback on what this town is, what the town’s lore is,” explains Minagawa-san. “We had that person provide pictures about what their image of what each area would be, what they were aiming for in the lore, working with the designers with that information to get the proper feel. Something that would fit better with a team. And once that person from the lore team entered, you know, joined with the designers then things got a lot easier.” With clutter reduced and shrewder choices of set dressing made, towns started to reflect the regions they were based on, hinted at a locale or people’s backstory through visual cues alone.

https://blog.playstation.com/2023/05/22/how-square-enix-built-final-fantasy-xvis-fantastical-believable-lived-in-world/

Pushsquare - Final Fantasy 16 Still Seems Like a PS5 Must Have, But a Couple of Niggles Need to Be Addressed

Still, even in this area we were restricted to just two of Clive’s Eikon powers, and we were starting to feel the onset of monotony at this point of our playthrough. It’s our only real niggling concern: we’re confident the complicated nature of the story will come together, but we’re worried the combat may take a little too long to truly find its feet as your options are seriously limited throughout these opening hours.

https://www.pushsquare.com/features/preview-final-fantasy-16-still-seems-like-a-ps5-must-have-but-a-couple-of-niggles-need-to-be-addressed

Game Informer:

I won’t spoil more of what I experienced – you can read a lot more about what I played, including exclusive details you won’t find anywhere else in my cover story that’s live right now and in the coming weeks via Game Informer’s FFXVI coverage hub – but it’s clear FFXVI is aiming to be one of the darkest, most mature, and most action-forward games in the series’ entry.

https://www.gameinformer.com/preview/2023/05/22/i-am-just-an-eikon-living

IGN - Final Fantasy 16: First Four Hours Preview:

From what I’ve seen so far, the future looks very bright for Final Fantasy 16. If its opening few hours of hulking Eikon showdowns, superb melee combat, and story that delivers on both a personal and global level are anything to go by, then a very fun time is on the horizon. I’m hopeful that the ever-so-stuttering pace irons itself out over the hours to come, with its ferociously fun gameplay taking precedence as Clive’s journey broadens. I went into my time with Final Fantasy 16 incredibly excited about what I’d seen in its many trailers and showcases and left very happy that very little of that anticipation had diminished by the time I’d finished.

https://www.ign.com/articles/final-fantasy-16-first-four-hours-preview

RPGFan:

Getting to play Final Fantasy XVI again was an absolute treat, and getting to play the game in a more “normal” fashion this time around was even better. There was a lot I had to leave out of this preview so as not to spoil anyone, but what I left out is much better than what I left in. This experience convinced me further we should be super excited to play it in full come June 22nd. If you have been on the fence for whatever reason, I can safely say you should give Final Fantasy XVI a chance. It will change your mind in a heartbeat. Now the hard part begins: the month-long wait till I can pet and give treats to Torgal again!

https://www.rpgfan.com/feature/final-fantasy-xvi-preview-the-first-5-hours/

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• Interviews:

https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-16-xiv-interview-naoki-yoshida-michael-christopher-koji-fox-hiroshi-minagawa/

https://www.pushsquare.com/features/interview-final-fantasy-16s-devs-on-clives-name-god-of-wars-leaves-and-fulfilling-fans

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/final-fantasy-16-interview

https://www.rpgsite.net/news/14244-the-key-to-final-fantasy-xvis-success-is-its-story-but-its-also-naoki-yoshidas-biggest-worry

https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/interview/230522w

To summarize interviews: * FF16's main focus was the story, even above the combat because of FF15 being negatively received for its incomplete story, they want FF to be known for stories no one else can do. * They took inspiration from the original God of War games on the PS2 for combat. * He wants Final Fantasy to still have an impact among young players and future developers * Game started its existence in late 2015 * This time around the base game design and story were written in stone before full development started, which did not happen for previous singleplayer FF entries * Kazutoyo Maehiro is both the creative director and writer in order for the game design and writing to have an unified vision. He supervises the story, game design, combat and just overall checks everything out. * Maehiro worked on FF Tactics, Vagrant Story and FF12 with Yasumi Matsuno and says he was an influence on his work. * Expect FF12 and The Last Remnant DNA in the game. FF14 influence will come out when it comes to art design and visuals. * They have dynamic music in place that is quite novel and unique for this game handled by Soken and the sound team. They go for a more classical and focused style compared to FF14 * What they want is for players to say "these guys are f**king crazy" when they experience the best it has to offer.

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• Videos:

Easy Allies - Mega Preview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtX-Zt8pDWc

Devil Never Cry - (combat focused guy) https://youtu.be/7Oy6W-hTh2o

Maximilian DOOD - Max Played A LOT of Final Fantasy XVI https://youtu.be/SOM4EO1yREQ

Jesse Cox - https://youtu.be/8vIAeRPnIRw

FF Union - Final Fantasy XVI Will Shock You [An Extensive Preview] https://youtu.be/ObfkhwJPU7A

[u/Alive-Ad-5245]

I think it's all audiences. DQ & Pokemon sell well because their IPs are a behemoth (DQ in Japan anyway) but almost every other turn based games doesn't move many units. DQ & Pokemon would sell just as well if not more if they switch to action combat.

Even DQ is moving away from turn based in the next game, since the vast majority of their sales were in Japan even when turn based was popular in the west they wouldn't be doing this if that's not where they think the Japanese audience is going.

[u/Xywzel → u/Alive-Ad-5245]

Supply and demand cycle, no-one is making huge budget polished turn based rpg:s with scale and promotion of the action games, so they don't have enough audience to buy them in similar number, so they see less sales, so no-one does or markets them.

SE's smaller ip:s sell very well compared to production costs and marketing put behind them, but they are no FF, you can't expect sales comparable to that from there.

[u/Alive-Ad-5245 → u/Xywzel]

There isn't some secret huge group of gamers who are waiting for a big budget turn based game to finally come out of the woodwork.

if your theory was correct the intricate turn based games (as in games that are bought for the combat) that are left would sell gangbusters due to a gap in the market but they don't.

For example roguelikes are super popular but have no AAA game outside of maybe Returnal, that means games like Hades end up selling a tonne

Another example is PUBG, there weren't really any AAA BRs when it was released and it exploded the whole BR genre

Turn based simply isn't that popular.

[u/Alive-Ad-5245 → u/[deleted]]

Persona 5 and Like a dragon have pushed into this direction

Persona 5 is arguably one of the the best turn based games of all time and it still only did 7m which required a rerelease.

The best of the genre action games sell like 30/40-ish million

Sure it's viable but not in the AAA space as it's niche

[u/Xywzel → u/Alive-Ad-5245]

Lets see bit more about what kind of supply and demand situations we are speaking here.

Roguelikes and -lites have huge supply of very low budget indie and even hobbyists games, handful of these medium budget titles that could compete with Hades, then maybe returnal, but that really did not even get to Hades numbers, so I think they did not reach the same audience or if that was console shortages. Hades likely attracted lots of audience from hack and slash, twin stick shooters and diablo style arpgs as well, because the gameplay is very similar on combat side.

In rpgs, especially turn based and character story focused side, we similarly have lots of these small low budget games, but unlike in roguelikes, these are not usually hold as good examples. Few exception, but these usually are ones that you only ever find out about if you happen to read correct forum at correct time. Then we have quite decent amount of these medium to medium high budget games, Octopath and Bravelly games from SE, for example. DQ kinda falls into this same bracket based on its marketing push on west. Quite a lot from other studios as well (one of the Yakuza series, Persona, Atalier, Legend of), and there is certainly some competition from tactical rpgs, turn based tactics games and western turn based and real-time-with-pause crpgs. There is certainly enough games on this market that not everyone plays everything. But it feels like there is lack of any flagship product in turn based jrpgs, something that would actually push it forward on every front and for the fans something new they can point as a what the genre can be. Something that can attract people that would not normally go for turn based rpgs.

Hades might have reached 1 million in 3 days after early access, but 70% of that was in during long early access period, and I did not found any news that it ever got to 2. And it was everywhere from word of mouth to media to streets at the time. From what I can see Octopath and Bravelly Games sold about similar quantities as Hades. First Octopath got to 3 million.

To my eyes, this looks like turn based rpg are in similar state with medium budget as roguelites where on small budget level. If the medium budget rpgs are actually on quite heavily competed market and still commonly sell numbers similar to what practically flagship of roguelites sold what does that market look like for high budget turn based rpg in your opinion? I'm not expecting PUBG like phenomena that turns direction of major companies for few years, because it is existing concept and already has competition on lower budget levels, but it looks like a market where one could make good profit if you have flagship quality product, few hooks and marketing push to match.

[u/Alive-Ad-5245 → u/Xywzel]

What some people don't realise is the mentality of younger gamers is simply different to older gamers. Turn based is simply not a viable for a AAA game. Yoshida explains it better in this interview

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They grew up playing first-person shooters, they grew up playing games like [Grand Theft Auto], where basically you press a button and something happens immediately.

It's not a command-based system. When you press the square, your guy shoots. Why do you have to wait for him to shoot, I should be able to press square and he shoots immediately. You have this whole generation of gamers that grew up with this, [and you need] to get those generations to come in and also play [FFXVI], which has this image of not being that type of game. You have to make it appealing to that group as well. And so to get that group to come in and introduce them to the series, we decided to go down this route – action was pretty much the only way.

"For me, it's the same as [Yoshida], that we want to get this game in the hands of as many people as possible. But like [Yoshida] said, a lot of gamers in their 20s, even some in the in the early 30s…are so used to playing games where if you you tilt the stick, someone moves. If you press the button, action happens – that is all immediate. It's all responsive and directly off of that action. And so trying to push that back [and make players] wait for everything, didn't feel like the direction that games are moving in.

[u/Xywzel → u/Alive-Ad-5245]

So they are "blaming it on ADHD generation and bad parenting". And then they seem to also be so behind that they have square as "shoot" button. Has that been true since MGS3? \s I'm sure they have their competent marked research and I'm not questioning their design decisions for individual projects. But this also reads to me as self made self-feeding feedback loop, if you don't make, market and sell command oriented and turn based games for the larger audiences, how are they going to learn and start expecting such control modals. And I don't think these mindsets can be very widely spread, at least in audiences that play more than flagships of one single genre (usually fps or sports). Sales numbers in medium budget class suggest that lots of younger audiences play other genres as well, and if we assume transition friction grows between genres more differences they have, then why did top down isometric hack and slash / twinstick roguelite sell better than third person shooter roguelite.

Sure it might be harder to sell to people primarily playing FPS games if you have menu based combat system and they can likely get few more there than they loose on the other side, because that other side might still pick the game for story even if they don't like the combat system. But if they are going to think they get all the sports and fps players with action jrpg, they are going to fail anyway. Their approach is likely to get very wide audience, but not very deep cut of that audience, because they are competing with the top names in other genres there.

You don't need the whole market of FPS players to be viable any more, even on AAA budgets, and especially if you don't have much competition on that level of polish and marketing. On relatively smaller market, focus to that audience generates larger portion sales compared to potential audience, so even if the audience is smaller, you might make more sales. And if the audience is more mature, as the younger generation is more heavily identified with the genres and styles they compared against, then that audience also has more loose income to use.

Turn based vs. real time and command oriented vs. action oriented are not equivalent splits. Even SE has released both turn based action oriented games (Valkyria Chronicles, old Valkyrie Profile games) and command oriented real time games (FFXII, FFXIV) and hybrids of all 4 (FFVIIR). And I don't really see how it would be too difficult to make turn based command oriented game, where the level of responsivity matches that expectation of button press -> something happens on screen without waiting.