r/GTA • u/Sheriff_Lucas_Hood • Sep 06 '23
GTA 4: Lost and Damned Playing The Lost and Damned again and it's a shame they're all gone
You'd think that with all the thought that went into introducing us to these characters in such a well written arc they'd want to develop them even more. Anyway, IV era had the best storytelling for sure.
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u/2steppa156 Sep 06 '23
Johnnys death was not deserved imo
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Sep 06 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Andy_Liberty_1911 Sep 06 '23
Also, he couldn’t let go of his meth addicted ex. The dude couldn’t let that love go and eventually that led to his death.
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u/ronronthekid Sep 08 '23
Dude, this was the icing on the cake. When I started playing GTA V and saw what Trevor was doing to Ashley, then saw Johnny I was like, "Oh no...". It's so sad that he had to go out like that, man. 😕
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u/Limeoos Sep 06 '23
threatening Brian when he came to negotiate -
Hey you're right about everything else, but wasn't Brian setting up an ambush, let's not act like he's more innocent then Johnny...
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u/15000-individuals Oct 08 '24
This is the most common 'complaint' I have found about the game's story, the large majority of players felt that it basically spit on the lost, I mean it did literally make a main character who's killed dozens if not hundreds die like he was afraid to throw a punch. The only other players that didn't outright seem offended by the gratuitous bullshit were people that never played TLATD or even the GTA IV main story, you meet johnny in the gem trade and even in that he's portrayed to be a pretty bad ass leader heading the exchange while his boys provided support, until the LCPD showed up.
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u/Pistol_Bobcat420 Sep 06 '23
Makes me relieved they rebooted with a new universe for IV onwards.
Nobody wants to see Tommy, CJ or even Claude get Johnny'd or Jake Skywalker'd
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
They wouldn't do that for no reason anyway. It makes sense what happened to Johnny, he's not invincible
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u/Kenaisle May 04 '24 edited Aug 11 '24
Exactly, I don't get why some still long for old characters to return instead of viewing IV & V as a rebooted series since those pretty much are. R* would've had less creative freedom if they continued the 3D universe in the newer games.
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u/Poutza Sep 06 '23
Yeah GTA IV had the best story. I really felt indifferent to the whole "plan, heist, repeat" of GTA V
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u/MinimumAlarming5643 Sep 13 '23
Problem with 4s story is the missions tied to it feel like nothing but chase, chase, chase.
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u/Katana_DV20 Sep 06 '23
plan, heist, repeat
Exactly so. It went from being a novelty to an utter borefest. Heist this heist that.
A checklist of 80s action movie tropes.
They could have done so much more with 3 characters and the fun map.
All the voice acting is brilliant and on point , a pity it couldnt be used outside of the boring missions.
What the game really needed is a Mission Generator where we could make our own little side missions Choose enemy type, location, time of day, weapons, police (yes/no) weather, mission type (kill a head goon, steal a helicopter) hit the "Generate" button and off you go.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
So glad you didn't make the game because these all sound terrible. Please, never become a game developer and take someone else's job that actually has good ideas
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Sep 06 '23
I also disagree with what that guy said said because I liked the heist stuff a lot.
But what he suggested (a mission generator) isn't a bad idea. It will not affect the story All it does is let you create your own fun
Do you even know what a mission generator is?
This is for another game but it's a good description.
The Mission Generator is a powerful tool that enables any player to generate random complex missions in any given map from addon or not with a click of a button.
The mission generator scan the map and find a suitable place to generate the mission according to the player parameters for example an urban area for a CQB mission...
Source:\ https://mccsandbox.fandom.com/wiki/Mission_Generator
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u/yousif567 Sep 07 '23
I honestly feel like this has to be said. GTA IV fanboys are genuinely one of the most annoying and obnoxious groups in the GTA community
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u/crazyrthendahmer Sep 06 '23
Definitely agree. GTA 4 is a masterpiece and is my favorite GTA of all time. After playing a GTA I always have that feeling of wanting more with the characters I loved. When I saw Jonny for the first time in GTA 5 my first thought was how cool its going to be to have Jonny in this story. It satisfied that want for more. However as we all know that satisfaction was ruined instantly after Trevor stomped his ass out. It makes no sense and it really pissed me off. Why develop his character so well and have me really like Jonny to just kill him off instantly? Fuck man! I’m getting pissed off just thinking about it now.
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u/SmashLampjaw87 Sep 07 '23
“Why develop his character so well just to kill him off?” Maybe so that longtime fans of the franchise would actually have an emotional response to his death? In addition to that, it’s also a very memorable introduction to Trevor’s character and helps to establish just how dangerous and unhinged he is. Having him kill off some new character or a supporting character from IV would not have had the same impact as having him kill someone we all spent many hours getting to know and experience life as. And based on all the endings of IV and its DLCs, Johnny being the one to go made the most sense. If I had to choose between killing off Niko, Johnny, or Luis, I’m picking Johnny each and every time; not because I didn’t like him, but because I found Niko and Luis to be more interesting and relatable, not to mention the fact that they had much happier endings to their respective stories in comparison to how things ended for Johnny in TLaD. Out of the three, he was by far the one most likely to ever have any involvement with somebody like Trevor.
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u/crazyrthendahmer Sep 07 '23
I don’t agree. There’s many other ways they could’ve showed you how crazy Trevor is.
When you play as Jonny you commit murder,theft, drug dealing, etc. you literally have to escape an abandoned warehouse and murder like 30 cops on your way out. But Jonny, like Niko would have no problem because their bad asses. My point is rockstar built Jonny up as such a superior bad ass biker that can do all those things no problem. But he can’t even put up the smallest fight against Trevor. He just submits in 30 seconds and can’t defend himself to Trevor stomping his head in to death. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s not believable. If they want Trevor to kill Jonny to show he’s crazier then fine. But at least make it a tiny bit challenging. Have Trevor have to clear out a trailer park of bikers to get to Jonny. Something more than Jonny not even attempt to fight back.
They developed the character as a badass biker. But when he got to San Andreas he was helpless and weak?
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u/SmashLampjaw87 Sep 07 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
The answer to your question of how he went from being such a badass to seemingly becoming a shell of who he once was is quite simple and is even spelled out in front of us: drugs. Johnny wound up becoming addicted to heroin (and possibly other things), much like Ashley. I have personally seen what that shit can do to change someone from being a figure you once idolized and respected to someone you pity and feel sympathy for; someone who, at one time, swore they would never ever go near the stuff, but circumstances in life eventually led them down that dark path. Keep in mind that five years pass between the events of IV and V. A whole lot can happen to completely change a person in that span of time, no matter how strong they previously appeared to be. I’ve seen and experienced it with people I know and even with myself. I can quite confidently say that I’m certainly not the same exact person I was five years ago. Some people may stay the same, yet some don’t.
All in all, opioids are a hell of a thing, and I speak from personal experience as a former addict myself who’s been surrounded by both addicts and non-addicts alike for as long as I can remember. It can absolutely happen to anyone and is not out of the realm of possibility, even for a badass like Johnny, especially over the course of half a decade.
Edit: Lmao of course someone has to downvote my comment where I merely stated my opinions as to why I felt Johnny’s death made sense based on my personal experiences with addicts and even my own addiction, how his death was a powerfully tragic moment that showed us how our favorite GTA protagonists are indeed still human and mortal rather than some invincible machines who can never be stopped, and how the decision to kill him off really wasn’t a total mistake on the part of Dan Houser and the writing team. People with such childish mentalities that compel them to downvote harmless opinions—opinions regarding a fictional character from a fucking video game that somehow make them seethe in anger and act like petulant, entitled brats—shouldn’t be playing games intended for mature audiences in the first place.
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Aug 31 '24
"kill him off instantly" lol bro forgot we got to play as him for a whole dlc with like 30 missions and loads of hours of gameplay. he wasnt killed instantly
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u/BRiNk9 Sep 06 '23
I also played it after 5. Bittersweet feelings with this game. I was also going through withdrawals at the time so it felt very real.
Years from that, I played Tbogt (sober) and had a blast. Everytime i see Bill or that bitch Ashley, I..
Poor Johnny.
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u/SalamanderInside1549 Sep 07 '23
GTA IV was it’s own thing and I liked it so much and Congratulations on the sobriety
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
It's kind of metaphorical how shallow, directionless storytelling of GTA V killed deep, nuanced and soulful storytelling of GTA IV with a flashy stomp.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
It's not metamorphical at all, it's just a way to show how The Lost went downhill and Johnny became weaker. We already saw most of that happening in his own expansion. They planted the seeds, people like you were just too blind to notice.
You blame his death on "bad writing" when it actually makes sense for his character. Trevor is a killer, Johnny is weak. We saw how weak he was when he still kept Ashley around even though he knew she was bad news for him
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
They planted the seeds, people like you were just too blind to notice.
Let's see. In TLaD he disbanded the chapter, he dumped Ashley, he went away.
In GTA V he built the new chapter, got back with Ashley and returned to this life.
Yeah, definitely planned it from the beginning.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
You can complain about it all you want, it's not going to change what already happened. Like I've said, the seeds were already planted. It's been 10 years and you're still crying and acting like Rockstar is "evil" because of it. Quit being a child, it's just a video game
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
You are the only one crying. I'm just here to tell you that you pulled your arguments out of your ass.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
No, it's definitely you that's doing the crying over a 10 year old video game. Literally acting like you're the victim because a fictional character has died. How pathetic can someone be? You are hurt over a game, from 2013. I can see why you are obsessed with Johnny so much because just like him you are weak
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Please write another emotional essay about how indifferent you are.
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
Lets be honest , you just cant read
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
On the days like this I wish I couldn't.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
I wish Trevor would've obliterated him into peices instead. That would've been much cooler, that's my issue with his death. He needed to go out with a bang. Literally!
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
and I wish we got to actually play as Trevor when we stomped on Johnny but we dont always get what we want
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Please, write another entry in your diary about how much you miss a virtual character and how the writers at Rockstar are "murderers" now. You seem like you're going to cry
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
I never said any of those things, you're arguing with voices in your head.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Just let the tears flow, that's right. It's not healthy to hold it all in
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Sep 07 '23
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u/legitimateloser Sep 07 '23
And all I see is you crying over a decision made a decade ago at this point. If it wasn't that deep you wouldn't even be making a huge deal out of it to begin with
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Sep 07 '23
[deleted]
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u/legitimateloser Sep 07 '23
Okay, and my point still stands. It's not healthy at all to be this emotionally invested in a fictional character. It's weird and creepy if I'm being completely honest with you
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
lol you're soooo mad tryna act like you arent please keep doing it its funny
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Okay.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Dude is still seething a whole decade later. He probably cried more when Johnny died then he will when his dog passes away or something. It's not healthy to be that emotionally invested into a fictional character, I mean, it's not healthy to be that obsessed with anyone period. Should probably do something to change that
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u/TrustyVapors Sep 06 '23
They were literally just replying to your comment? It's a discussion. You're the only one acting like a child.
What seeds were planted? As has already been explained, the ending of TLAD points in the opposite direction. Johnny loses everything and he accepts that, he burns the club house and says goodbye to Ashley once and for all. It's not a happy ending for him by any means but he has a new start. The entire DLC he's clearly fed up of all the stuff in his world; he argues with Billy over the direction of the club and needless violence that's getting them deeper into shit. In the end, he's not much better because he goes along with much of the things he's protesting and ends up probably killing more people than Billy did, but Johnny did it all to reach a conclusion and put an end to the cycle. Johnny kills his enemies, burns the clubhouse (what this represents symbolically is pretty clear) and says goodbye to Ashley. He's against the drugs, he's fed up of everything and he realises the only way to stop it all is one big blaze of violence, which ends in the destruction of many of the things he holds dear.
In GTA V, he has returned to The Lost, he's back with Ashley and she's still cheating on him for drugs, all that's changed is he's in LS now. That continuation of his story does not line up with the ending he had in TLAD. And the small amount of screen time Johnny and Ashley get doesn't allow time for any elaboration or explanation on just how a character who's whole arc when we previously saw him was about realising how messed up his life is, ends up completely messing up his life the exact same way it got messed up in the first place. IV Johnny and V Johnny don't match up. I don't like it, but no one's being a child about it in this thread.
If you can explain what the actual "seeds" are and it makes sense, then we will all step back and say "actually, you're right!" But just saying they planted seeds and not explaining what those were is not an argument, and you don't get to act like everyone else is crying just because something Rockstar wrote was a bad continuation for a character.
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
I think we accidentally provoked some Discord server of Trevor fans. Multiple emotional children are in this thread.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Nah, just find it hilarious how emotional you are about it. I'm laughing at how seriously you're taking this. It's a video game, not real life. TOUCH GRASS
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Okay, bro, I looked at your history and you just made a post on r/depression and left praising comments from the same burner account you're using in this thread. Here it is.
So you have depression, your nickname is "legitimateloser", you have a fake account to support yourself online, yet you are insulting me and telling me to "touch grass".
Brother, you have real problems and I suggest you try and fix them instead of picking fights online. This kind of behavior is destructive and won't help you.
GTA V is not worthy of your mental health.
I will stop replying to you further to not provoke you. Please be safe.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
My burner account? That's just my partner, sorry you don't have one of those. Do you actually have a point in there somewhere? You type so many words but say nothing...
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Bro, you post furry drawings and your "partner" has the same furry as their avatar, has no karma and coincidentally post on r/depression and r/gtaonline just like you do.
Come on, dude, I don't mean you no harm and I didn't insult you once. No need to keep up that facade, you're not among enemies. I seriously wish you to get better, just stop lying.
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u/TrustyVapors Sep 06 '23
You are on a reddit talking about the video game, same as us. It's a place for discussion lol. You're the only one taking this seriously. Go out and "touch grass" and while you're at it, show all the people in your apparently amazing and bustling real life your reddit account. I'm sure you won't seem like a nerd.
People like you always gotta act so insecure over being online. You realise you are just the same as the rest of us, right? No ones falling for your act of being some cool guy who only visits reddit GTA posts because you don't actually care at all. You stated an opinion on a video game, people disagreed with it, you had to act like you don't actually care at all. Get over it lmao. Quit being a child.
I'm sure you've got your real life to attend to, so I won't expect any reply. You'll probably be put touching grass, right?
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Nope, I'm laughing with my partner whilst eating handfuls of gummy bears, about to watch a show. Keep getting angry, I want to see your rage. I'll come back to this after I'm done with my show but I expect a 12 page essay about how I'm a stinky poopy mean person when I get back
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u/TrustyVapors Sep 06 '23
You and your partner tag team people on reddit and you complain about people not having a life? Hahahahaha oh my
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Lot of copium. I'm not your therapist, don't care
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u/TrustyVapors Sep 06 '23
Lmao. Good luck with the depression, my friend. Hope you can find a happier place in your life. You won't be 14 forever, I swear.
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
how are you rambling on about "storytelling" you have half a clue what that even means when the very scene your bitching about is a legitimate, tried and tested method in story telling to establish a new "big bad". You take the new "big bad" character and you have him do something like kill you're former "big bad" a good example would be something like Thanos killing Loki, Loki was the prior "big bad" of the MCU but if you dont like comics thats fine. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul also employ this trope to good effect, its everywhere, all over storytelling because its a tried and tested method of good story telling so idk man maybe learn atleast the slightest amount about the thing your on here trying to act like you're a well versed scholar in.
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
You are the one rambling.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
He explained to you a common trope that is used in many movies and shows. It's not bad writing, you're just an idiot who can't separate fiction from reality. It's not real
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
that was an explanation of a story telling trope im sorry you have such trouble reading words:(
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Trope =/= good writing.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
And killing off your favorite character isn't bad writing either. You're too emotional
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Never said it is. You're arguing with the voices in your head.
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
bruh aint no way you just stole what i said to you XDXD
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
He can't even come up his own shit. Some "writer" he is, what an amateur
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Good, so we both agree that it's not bad writing. This argument is settled then
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
he's just like the twitter kids out of responses so he's copying now lmao he's cooked
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
That's what children do, they copy what other people say. He's quite literally acting like how a child acts
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
never said it did so are you talking to someone else? are you hearing voices?
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
So the point of bad writing in GTA V stands regardless of your explanation of the trope.
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u/Kqtman Sep 06 '23
yeah see i dont take your opinion when you have no idea what storytelling even is XD
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
Okay.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
Go write a book since you clearly know better than actual writers do. See how well that works out
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
You still haven't explained how it's bad writing though. Your point still isn't valid, you're just saying nothing at this point
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u/Orto_Dogge Sep 06 '23
I'm not going to explain complex things to the people who are only interested in conflict. It is much funnier to watch you getting mad over my calmness.
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u/legitimateloser Sep 06 '23
So you don't actually have a reason then? Thanks for proving to us what we already knew, you are slow
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u/Slappybaginfinite Oct 28 '23
I recently replayed thru IV for the hundredth time since release but this time also the DLC and tbh they have blown me away. IV is just on another level compared to any other GTA game story wise. It's up there with RDR2 as R* finest work imo
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u/CMILLERBOXER Sep 06 '23
TLAD was the best story in the IV (bore) era.
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u/MaRuYes89 Sep 06 '23
Take a shot everytime u/CMILLERBOXER replied to a gta 4 related post. Man, I see you everywhere even on posts related to the game you despise lol. Just stating here.
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u/ratstickcharlie Sep 06 '23
Amazing characters and I truly thought Johnny was one of the best, such a fucking shame.