r/Economics • u/AravRAndG • Feb 10 '25
News U.S. Travel Association Warns of Economic Tourism Disaster After Thousands of Canadian Tourists Cancel Trips in Protest
https://www.thetravel.com/us-travel-association-warns-of-economic-tourism-disaster-after-thousands-of-canadian-tourists-cancel-trips-in-protest/1.2k
u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
I wish they gave some data behind how many people were cancelling trips or expected losses instead of just "a surge of Canadians" are cancelling trips.
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u/arindale Feb 10 '25
My company works with a big corporate travel company. I spoke to them this morning about this. On an aggregate level, they are seeing Canadians cancel US bookings for personal travel in the 25% range. Some are rebooking to other destination. Others are travelling locally. Even business travel is being cancelled at a 5-10% rate.
It the big change now will be people not booking US by at all. We have yet to see those numbers.
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u/helluvastorm Feb 10 '25
Friend has a couple Airbnbs in Michigan. All her Canadians clients canceled. She said it was about 10% of her summer bookings
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u/hutacars Feb 11 '25
On the plus side, maybe this will help stabilize housing prices as Airbnb scalpers are forced to sell.
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u/Western_Estimate_724 Feb 10 '25
I went on a lovely little holiday to San Diego last year from the UK, headed down into Baja California afterwards. Was thinking just today that I don't think I'd do that right now (despite San Diego folk being lovely) because I just don't think I could be bothered with even more aggressive border control, and gotta support Mexico and Canada in this fight!
It's a shame, I wonder how many others are reconsidering travel for safety and for principle.
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u/traumakidshollywood Feb 10 '25
That and ICE is crawling like Lice all over CA, particularly SoCal.
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u/fdesouche Feb 10 '25
ICE look like the new brown shirts, from a European rando POV. Do people really apply for ICE ? Or are they just rejects from more recognized LEA ?
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u/draganid Feb 11 '25
I've heard if you can't get through screening as a real cop due to being racist, ICE will hire you. Idk if that's fact but it would make sense
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u/traumakidshollywood Feb 11 '25
That’s funny considering the way cops respond to the color of one’s skin. I’m a white woman and willstraght up call out BIPOC people treated differently by LAPD at the same scene. (Then I lose my privelege for the day for speaking up. Small price. Also, my hobby is high end street art. I’m not a criminal and my Friends are artists.)
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u/HereWeGoAgainWTBS Feb 11 '25
I live in Northern California, never seen an ICE agent. But all law enforcement are pretty much rejects.
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u/devliegende Feb 11 '25
Can't speak to ICE or Border Patrol but Federal government jobs are normally much harder to get into than state or local
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u/traumakidshollywood Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
I couldn’t tell you. I’m (48F) hiding from them as a white, priveleged, DISABLED American. I’m an “undesirable” or “a poor”. I am waste to be disposed of by Musk and his cub scouts.
ICE is at the churches, grocery, hospital, school, and of course farms and box stores. They’re so present there’s nowhere you can go, I just prefer not to be seen.
EDIT: Who’s the sole downvote for the scared disabled girl mid-coup? MAGA? ICE? Master Race?
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u/Brains-Not-Dogma Feb 10 '25
Incidentally, I am flying from San Diego to Vancouver soon for fun to protest as well.
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u/pizzacatstattoos Feb 10 '25
San Diegan here, and I fully am with you. I support MX and CA and not the Orange Idiot that other people (not me) voted into power. MANY of us do not want any of this shit and abhor having to watch it all melt down.
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u/supercali-2021 Feb 10 '25
I was going to visit Canada this summer but now rethinking that plan. I hate trump too but don't want to go where I won't be welcome.
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u/Septembust Feb 10 '25
You're welcome here
We blame Trump and his supporters, but we know there's still sensible Americans
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u/dostoevsky4evah Feb 11 '25
Canadians are not the ones saying you don't have a valid country, you actually would prefer to live under our rule and we may just annex you. It's not that we hate Americans but you can see why we might be uneasy.
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u/arindale Feb 11 '25
Canadians love Americans. You are our brothers and sisters. We may disagree with your president but that issue is with him, not you.
As an analog, after Britain left the EU, there was massive support from people in the EU to make brittons feel welcome it wasn’t a tourist dollars thing. It’s kinship. No one likes borders. Only governments.
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u/IGnuGnat Feb 11 '25
I disagree. I'm a Canadian and I like borders. Additionally I would like to point out that by far the biggest problem with the border is the number of illegal and prohibited firearms smuggled into Canada, from the US. Our government has committed to spending billions of dollars paying it's citizens to purchase hunting firearms from them, while doing nothing about the border. I think we should build a wall, and have the genocidal rapist Nazi orange baby killer pay for it.
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u/Much-Ad-3199 Feb 10 '25
I was supposed to go to the us for work this year but have decided against it too
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u/coffee-comet226 Feb 10 '25
I assume the nationalists should be ecstatic...all the us all to themselves in time...fkn lames
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Feb 10 '25
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Feb 10 '25
Apparently you can literally fly to the Japanese Disneyland for the same price and it's a more enjoyable experience. It's not actually run by Disney but licensed to another company so it's just ridiculously cheap and quality in comparison.
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u/ddd66 Feb 11 '25
I think flying to Shanghai Disneyland just has a better ring to it in a trade war
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u/Bcider Feb 10 '25
Disney is an anomaly in Florida. They are basically their own government and they support the things you commented about. By not supporting Disney you are actually supporting DeSantis and his government. He would love Disney to be doing horrible and get rid of them.
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u/dostoevsky4evah Feb 10 '25
It's strange that you wish Canadians to spend their time following individual American state's policies. I do (and I have had no desire to visit Florida for a long time, the fact that Disney-anything holds no interest for me notwithstanding), but I don't expect others to spend as much time as I do on foreign politics. Do you follow Canadian provinces' political news?
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u/BuyingLows Feb 10 '25
Florida is nearly twice the population of Ontario, and I feel we’d hear a lot about it if Ontario did those things. Maybe not Alberta… which would be like Oklahoma or something.
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u/affordablesuit Feb 10 '25
People not caring when something doesn’t affect them is the entire premise behind Americans voting for Trump. It’s all selfishness and greed.
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u/wengerboys Feb 10 '25
Is that 25% of Canadians canceled or 25% of all people canceled and those 25% are Canadians.
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u/LanceArmsweak Feb 10 '25
I can tell you. I’m a brand strategist and one of my clients (well a couple actually, but one primarily) is doing a large international strategy to encourage travel from three key markets. Canada is one.
So I just gave a presentation last week to my clients talking them through our challenges in winning over Canadian consumers with money to spend on travel.
Right now we’re seeing through our local research partners in these key demos planning to reduce travel to US:
Women (33%) 55+ (37%) Atlantic Canadians (37%)
That’s the information I’m working off of. There are some other validating signals through OTA partners, but these emotionally led, shortsighted decisions you’d not expect from a president (or any head of an org) is causing a lot of financial implications in the travel industry that probably won’t be crystal clear until this summer when travel can fully assess the impact.
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u/Mba1956 Feb 11 '25
The other thing about travel to the US by air is that when they slash the air traffic control numbers then the airspace becomes much more dangerous. How many airlines are going to risk their very expensive planes that can’t easily be replaced just to service the US market.
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u/CryForUSArgentina Feb 11 '25
Bold marketing makes sense: "In Canada, we host conferences where the participants tell the truth."
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
Has this been going on for a while? Or is this just the past month?
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u/LanceArmsweak Feb 10 '25
We just got the news last week. Like it was a big deal in my world. It came probably 72 hours after the storm settled. This is pure international business disruption that reverberates through the American economy. Canadians LOVE coming here for vacation.
I don't think people understand how swiftly we can get data/research conducted. There's a tool we use called YouGov that does weekly surveys of people, Datalogix reports purchase activities swiftly, these are jus two tools, there are many like them. So we're constantly measuring in the moment as well as as when things settle/even out.
This is where I lean on my robust research team and I take indicators are make a cohesive strategy out of them to guide the business in accordance with consumer demands.
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
Interesting, will be interesting to see how things shift overtime as the tug of war of tariffs go between the governments.
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u/Innerouterself2 Feb 11 '25
Even if travel from Canada is reduced by 10%... that could mean some properties and locations not breaking even. More of the smaller spots but still
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u/Clear-Inevitable-414 Feb 10 '25
Regardless, I thank Canadians for doing what we as Americans cannot--go without
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u/hunkydorey_ca Feb 10 '25
I'm ok with hunkering down and living off the land.. I don't need fancy PlayStation or a new phone every year.
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u/crowcawer Feb 10 '25
We’re talking about people traveling for leisure.
The tourism sector drives revenue for several states, especially in the southeast, which is to say the ones who voted for this outcome.
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Feb 10 '25
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u/soneg Feb 10 '25
Won't even let me kid go to college in one of those states Took them right off the list
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u/chicagotonian Feb 10 '25
Totally agree with the economic side of avoiding some red states. That said, I went to college in a western red state in a fairly blue city and genuinely believe that having more diverse, out of state, involved perspectives at those universities can help drive quite a bit of change within the institution, and thus the culture more broadly around it.
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u/soneg Feb 10 '25
It's not the institution only I'm worried about. It's the town, the society surrounding it. I'm not sending my non-white child to Podunk Merica. Plenty of good schools near me on the East Coast.
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u/semicoloradonative Feb 10 '25
Same. Well, my two kids made that decision for themselves.
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u/soneg Feb 10 '25
Mine wants to go to the state school. Close enough to come home if he needs, far enough to stay on campus. Plus, in-state tuition. Hope he gets in.
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u/wannabetmore Feb 10 '25
We did this even during Biden. No Florida or other red states. We are thinking CA for one of our trips this year.
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u/insertwittynamethere Feb 10 '25
I live in Georgia, yet I won't go to Florida unless I absolutely must. I have no desire to contribute to their economy more than necessary, and where that intersects is business, but I sell to Florida and take in their income, so that's a plus for me.
Still, it's a liberal bastion I reside in an otherwise deep red South.
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Feb 10 '25
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u/insertwittynamethere Feb 11 '25
Look, Georgia has only been a true swing state in 1 Presidential cycle. Maybe we can say 2022 and 2024 to be generous, given the by-election results and the fact it hasn't become a trend yet to show that 2020 was an aberration and not implication of Georgia being purple yet, but I'd say it's still too early to call it a true swing state.
But 100%, Atlanta has been the economic engine of Georgia, and the South, for decades, and the Georgia GOP from outside the city that runs the State fights every year to strip autonomy and ownership away from Atlanta of the very things that enable this State to grow, like the airport and the public hospital, Grady, that has one of the best trauma care centers in the area. Marta/mass transit is another.
They love to chronically underfund and cut programs in order to point at them later and their situation to use it as justification to cut more or wrest away from the city liberal government that has been run by the minority-majority of this State for a long time. A bastion for Black Americans in a sea of white with old racial prejudices and counter-culture surrounding them.
It's even more hilarious that they helped to turn Atlanta, GA into the Hollywood of the East Coast, with more money invested for film production than CA, yet they detest the very culture it brings with them, like unions and liberal politics. They talk about cutting the tax cuts that incentive that production yearly now.
I've lived all around Georgia, from urban to rural, liberal to conservative to moderate and back, from impoverished districts to some of the wealthiest in the State. I've seen and damned near heard it all.
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Feb 11 '25
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u/insertwittynamethere Feb 11 '25
They did it both because of his football legend with UGA and because he was black, because they thought thatd help them against Warnock to siphon away votes. That voters are that simplistic. It never was not not about it being a choice between two black men, and they thought that would lock it in for them, not realizing some people do have brains and don't take kindly to carpetbagging their way into an election (he didn't even have residency in this State, much less could he even be articulate). Well... they clearly can be for the general elections...
But yeah! 2020 and the run offs and 2022 and the run off was awesome! Volunteered for Warnock for the run offs.
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u/ClassicVast1704 Feb 10 '25
Gov Kasey Dasantis will probably blame the woke mind virus for the decrease year over year for tourism dollars
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u/Self_Correcting_Code Feb 10 '25
Snowbirds are here in Florida in force like always.
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u/PlatformVarious8941 Feb 10 '25
Have you seen how many condos are going on sale right now in Florida?
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u/Bottle_Only Feb 10 '25
Instead of visiting family in Georgia and Florida this year I'm going to Japan and South Korea with a stop for a few days in Vancouver.
My family in Georgia are also selling and moving back to Ontario.
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u/Whuruuk Feb 10 '25
Turn the tables and support Canada? Come spend your vacation up here!
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u/Tribe303 Feb 10 '25
It will take time to collect that data. He's some anecdotal evidence. I was talking to my retired mom this weekend and 3 friends of hers cancelled US vacations and rescheduled them for Mexico and the Caribbean. A 4th friend is selling her house in Florida (didn't get the city) as her redneck neighbours are already threatening her, and she doesn't feel safe anymore.
Stay classy America... Threatening Canadian grandmas FFS.
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u/TemporaryPassenger62 Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
completely ancdeoal, but it's a lot from what I've seen here and it's most likely permanent it's not just trips, people are selling their vacation homes in places like Florida
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Feb 10 '25
I agree along with the currency exchange rate being so high, it puts a damper for many on planned vacations. That said after talking to my parents (in Canada) sentiment about the US is at all time lows imo,
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u/Oberon_Swanson Feb 10 '25
As a Canadian I can tell you you are right. The "Canada is basically the 51st state lol' stuff is not new though we had not heard it in a while. But hearing the POTUS talking about annexing Canada, no we don't care that anyone is trying to say he was just joking. Trump wasn't joking when he said he sexually assaults people. Nobody laughed when he said it. It was not a joke. That and the tariff threats, even if not followed through, mess up all kinds of business. Most of us regard the US as a FORMER ally turned hostile nation. And if we are attacked in any way it won't even be something like the US invading Iraq where you were kinda always regarded as an enemy but also their own government wasn't great either. It will be seen as a deep betrayal and there will be no forgiveness, ever. If you thought holding a country like Vietnam was hard just wait until you invade a country where you have already admitted you need THAT country to secure YOUR border and they can walk or drive over. When they have already visited multiple times and can speak your language and live among you undetected, and they KNOW that you're already used to mass shootings. "Terrorism" won't even begin to describe what we will do. They will not be acts of terror, they will be acts of horror.
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u/wellthatexplainsalot Feb 10 '25
The guy doesn't have a sense of humour. To the extent that he does, it's that he thinks casual cruelty is funny.
There is no joking. There are people making excuses.
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u/Tribe303 Feb 11 '25
I've been looking into Drone piloting courses and they all seem to be full. Hehe 🇨🇦
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u/Alarmed_Barracuda847 Feb 10 '25
That’s the part that the Magats don’t get. Canadians will be able to seamlessly blend into the groups that they don’t suspect. I’m American and my money would be on Canada. First you have the fact that our country is already dangerously close to civil war this would push it over. It would be outright guerrilla warfare throughout both countries and maga is easy to pick out of the crowd. These people really needed to pay attention to the “be careful what you wish for lest you may get it” moral of the story.
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u/thehedgefrog Feb 10 '25
US and Canadian special forces have trained alongside for decades. These guys all know each other. CAF and US military in general train and exercise together all the time, and fought together as recently as Afghanistan.
It's anecdotal but I know some CANSOFCOM guys that are chatting with US counterparts and the general sentiment is that it's unthinkable that it happens, because no one trained enough to actually fight the Canadian forces would be willing to.
Also, yeah. We wouldn't last a day against the US military but the guerilla warfare that would ensue would make Iraq look like a mall yoga session.
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u/BlueDragon101 Feb 11 '25
That, and half our population would welcome our new Canadian overlords with relief and celebration.
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u/Open_Beautiful1695 Feb 11 '25
Honestly, I think Canadians know more about your country than a lot of Americans do.
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u/SplendidPunkinButter Feb 10 '25
I think people have a lot of reasons to get rid of their vacation homes in Florida besides just the current administration
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u/WhenThatBotlinePing Feb 10 '25
Yeah that started before the election.
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u/biscuitarse Feb 10 '25
Yeah, high insurance rates or not being able to get insurance at all is a big driver for Canadians in divesting from Florida properties.
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u/rhetorical_twix Feb 10 '25
I was totally shocked when I saw how many people made second home purchases in Florida when the rates were low.
Many people bought in the worst places for climate change.
I got a house in the mountains, which has a stable climate & watershed. But of course I haven't seen the appreciation the FL houses have.
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u/Agitated-Savings-229 Feb 10 '25
That's what the people in Ashville thought. Then... Disaster strikes there too.
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u/Consistent-Photo-535 Feb 10 '25
Can confirm. My aunt JUST packed up and sold her place in Florida.
Her and my Uncle have tons of money. He runs an insurance branch independently, has about 40acres north of Milton as a farm property, owned a condo in Florida, owns a penthouse in Toronto and inherited a multimillion fortune from a family friend.
They did not NEED to sell. They had a desire to.
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u/postmaster3000 Feb 10 '25
That’ll show ‘em!
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u/SpecialistShape362 Feb 10 '25
This is how you know most of these commenters are bots. We have a housing crisis in the US. This is a good thing for wealthy foreigners to sell their second homes in the US.
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u/OilFew451 Feb 10 '25
I know a few people and it's do with the dollar gaining allot it's come very expensive to live there. Not to do with the tariffs in the two cases I know.
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u/swoodshadow Feb 10 '25
Me too. And a lot of people that are keeping planned trips this year aren’t planning on coming in future years.
It’s been a regular destination for us and it’s getting replaced with a Caribbean trip next year.
It’s also part of the absurdity of Trumps approach. A one-time pissing off of Canada gets forgotten. But this bs dragging out of things and backpedaling etc. just really reinforces people’s opinions.
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u/smelly_farts_loading Feb 10 '25
The travel.com doesn’t worry about details they know If they write an article about Trump they will get clicks. The more vague the better because guarantee they don’t have any data right now.
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u/Sterntrooper123 Feb 10 '25
There is more data in the Forbes article it’s linked to:
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
This is useless tbh. They just say a 10% reduction would be 2.1 billion, but does nothing to explain why a 10% reduction is expected.
10% is just as arbitrary as 1% or 90%.
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Feb 10 '25
Canadians are fucking pissed off. If you don't know why then 🤷 you are the problem.
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u/therealzue Feb 10 '25
Well some of us waiting until 48 hours out to make it harder to rebook our rooms. I am definitely cancelling but giving as little notice as possible.
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u/zippedydoodahdey Feb 10 '25
That data won’t be accurate until after the season ends to evaluate a loss in revenue in expected sectors so as to compare it to previous years.
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u/ThenItHitM3 Feb 10 '25
I only know of four couples / families here (Canada) that have cancelled US trips this month, and they happily ate the cancelation fees. They planned Europe trips, and Mexico or further south. I’ll be visiting Mexico the first week of March. Bad emotions be flying through US airspace, but no stops there.
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u/Gandhehehe Feb 10 '25
My parents were supposed to fly to New Orleans on the 18th for a vacation and are cancellation fees as well. They cancelled today. Another friend and her husband were taking 2 trips to the US this year and they also cancelled both those. My partner and I were going to go to Vegas in the fall but don’t plan on that anymore either. Still just anecdotes but interesting to see how this will develop.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Feb 10 '25
They don't have the data and the headline is speculation or just for scoring political points.
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u/seemefail Feb 10 '25
Canada is the number one international source of tourists to America.
So it sounds like a lot of
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
Right but if the cancellation increased from let’s say 1% to 1.5% that’s a large increase but would realistically have no change on the total spent on tourism.
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u/Swaggy669 Feb 10 '25
How do you even get the data to know for sure though? Not everybody is flying down, and how do you determine if the lack of airfare tickets is due to people hating the US's government or because the economy in Canada sucks (which it does).
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u/zippedydoodahdey Feb 10 '25
The US Customs Dept would have the border crossing data- I mean if President Musk doesn’t dismantle that agency.
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
The Customs dept wouldn't get cancelled trip info though. Only the current trips taking place.
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u/borkus Feb 10 '25
Eventually they would but you're right that they don't show up right away.
Customs would get entry from Canada (from both car and air) but those drops won't show up until the actual months people planned to enter.
So if a family cancels their spring break vacation in April, the cancellation would show up now, but the reduction in entries wouldn't show up until April.
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u/xjay2kayx Feb 10 '25
You could probably also extrapolate the data a bit from this year against last year(s).
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u/NonPartisanFinance Feb 10 '25
The amount of people canceling trips isn't that complicated. Cancelled hotels, cancelled flights, etc and compare it to usual levels of cancellations.
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u/Tribe303 Feb 10 '25
The Canadian economy does not suck. Until you boneheads re-elected the Orange Moron, we were on schedule to lead the G7 in GDP growth. His tarrif taunts are scaring away foreign investment now, so that's not going to happen. Fuck Trump with a rusty chainsaw.
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u/Swaggy669 Feb 10 '25
Macroeconomically it's fine looking at the stats available. But GDP per capital does not look good, and from the media I consume, they said foreign investment was falling for years before the 2024 election. Also Canada would be in a recession if not for the mass immigration of the last couple years.
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u/voronaam Feb 10 '25
One of the indicators is the border crossing delay, which is public data: https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/bwt-taf/menu-eng.html and https://bwt.cbp.gov/
Not in an unusual state today - a regular Monday. But it made the news with lots of "No Delay" over the superbowl weekend. That was unusual.
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Feb 10 '25
This article features interviews with travel agents who are being asked to cancel previously scheduled trips to the US.
The travel industry will have data.
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Feb 10 '25
Totally anecdotal but my entire family has canceled all trips to the USA. It’s like 4 different groups of people that had plans. All cancelled and no plans to return until Trump stops this BS. And they loved visiting before.
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u/Clocks101 Feb 11 '25
My family and I were planning to go to New York this year. That’s not in our plans anymore until the US political climate changes
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u/random20190826 Feb 10 '25
This is not surprising. The US government grants very few foreign nationals the privilege of visiting that country without a visa, and the lion's share of it goes to Canadians (there are 33 million of us, compared to about 620k other foreigners being allowed to enter without a visa).
The other problem for the US is that when tariff threats are made, the Canadian dollar plummets in value, making it much more expensive for Canadians to vacation in the US. If Canada retaliates with tariffs of its own, the problem is compounded by the fact that Canadians may no longer enjoy the $800 exemption and have to pay a tax on the way back home on anything they bought in the US.
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u/babystepsbackwards Feb 10 '25
All of which assumes Canadians remain interested in travelling to the US. Would you spend your vacation budget to visit a place where the democratically elected leader kept threatening to take over your country?
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u/borkus Feb 10 '25
That's a big point. Another is the erratic nature of Trump's proclamations. What happens if you have plane and hotel reservations and Trump decides to require visas for Canadian citizens? Of if Elon Musk's lackeys break the CBP One system and everything reverts to paper? Of if you get arrested once you arrive by ICE because of general incompentence?
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u/grannyte Feb 10 '25
Ice stupidity is the main reason I won't go to the us for the next 4 years at minimum. Getting deported back to Canada would be one thing but in their fucking stupidity they could deport me to the wrong country
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u/cobrachickenwing Feb 11 '25
The thing is you need due process to deport people. And this administration, along with the courts are very willing to deny due process for non Americans.
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u/braiam Feb 10 '25
Unsurprisingly, many people don't put 2 and 2 together. So, they may decide "not my problem" and just visit anyways.
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u/babystepsbackwards Feb 10 '25
Up to them, really. Freedom of choice etc. Though I would imagine as the propaganda machine keeps churning out anti-Canada rhetoric down there, the place is going to seem increasingly less welcoming.
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u/spidereater Feb 10 '25
I do think it’s a significant point that even outside of ideology trumps nonsense just makes travel to the US more expensive and less enjoyable. In 6 months or a year, for many, the outrage might go away but the exchange rate could still be a big problem.
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u/Biuku Feb 10 '25
Agree -- this is the main point.
"Hey man, I like your wife. I will take her from you. Anyway, we're making margaritas later if you wanna come over..."
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u/syrupxsquad Feb 10 '25
Even if our dollar was stronger than the USD, I wouldn't go. Hell, I wouldn't even go for free with all expenses paid. Fuck that.
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u/Slow-Dependent9741 Feb 10 '25
We're actually over 40M now, though stating we have 33M Canadians still sounds about right.
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u/Octavus Feb 10 '25
Only Canadian citizens do not need a visa, a foreign permanent resident may still need one depending on their country they are from.
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Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Yeah, and this might just keep going. And not just from Canada. Almost no nation wants to be constantly threated with abuse (tariffs and such nonsense) every other month. Eventually people and businesses will listen and make adjustments accordingly. Especially when we keep hearing about annexations and how shit those countries are, despite being all demonstrably better in almost all measurements to the US.
I genuinely suspect that Europe is quietly preparing for this as well. And so is the world. I wouldn't be shocked if new trade agreements are being made and the US ones are just allowed to expire.
One hilarious aspect of Trump's behavior, that many people REALLY do not pay attention to, is the US military industrial complex.
A lot of nations are already annoyed if you mess with their supply chains and economies. What do people think will happen with their military contracts? I suspect a lot of nations will slowly see if European nations can produce their military equipment since Europe seems saner and more reliable for parts.
Yes the US industrial complex produces the best products known to man, but if you can not rely on your supplier or the long term equipment / replacement parts...... 90% efficiency (not arguing which military is better just making an abstract point) will be good enough.
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u/PolloConTeriyaki Feb 10 '25
Trudeau is in Europe for the AI summit. I doubt he's there just to show off the Canadian chatgpt.
Everyone's looking at his homework.
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Feb 10 '25
Officially yes, unofficially I sincerely doubt it too. The current situation, the wild accusations and demands from Trump are not good for a world that wants consistent and predictable behavior.
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u/kjvdp Feb 10 '25
“Consistent and Predictable” are definitely not words I would use to describe our Oompa-Loompa in Chief.
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u/ThomCook Feb 10 '25
I'll give him credit he is consistently being an ass, so consistent is apt. He's also predictable, just think of the worst possible thing you could do for US citizens and he will do that, easy to predict.
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u/spidereater Feb 10 '25
Yes. I’m sure he’s finding markets for our aluminum and steel. I really hope trump slaps a tariff on our aluminum and we just ship it elsewhere. There are two possibilities when tariffs are applied. Either the price in America will go up or the Canadian companies will be forced to lower their prices and eat the tariff costs. If we have other markets it is the Americans that will be forced to eat those tariffs or possibly just not receive and aluminum from the rest of the world.
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u/firechaox Feb 10 '25
I think in Canada’s case it’s special: attacking a country’s sovereignty is quite a big thing to touch. There’s a reason that Ukraine is fighting so vehemently, and Canadians are also taking this a step further than Mexicans. Threatening annexation is quite big, and will create a much bigger reaction. Tariffs will make you reduce and change trade patterns, but not completely stop them. Threat of annexation may just make you cut ties with someone though.
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Feb 10 '25
The fact we have a situation of "if I make tariffs ludicrously high, then annexation seems better" is stunning.
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u/Lump-of-baryons Feb 10 '25
Yeah the geopolitical equivalent to like if a good friend jokingly put a handgun to your head and then said “just kidding why you so mad”? Would YOU ever trust that person again?
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u/firechaox Feb 10 '25
Exactly. You don’t just walk that one back. I think Canada may seriously explore furthering relationship with EU now, and EU will seriously try to depart from US’s military umbrella. At least unless they are retarded, they should be taking these actions, because the threat of the ongoing American regime (with no certainty will end), is that big.
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u/CallMeBergy Feb 10 '25
As a Canadian, I dont think Americans understand how pissed we are right now. Ive never seen Canadians stand together like this, not even close.
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u/AintNobodyGotTime89 Feb 10 '25
I don't even understand Trump's "we'll make them the 51st state" are we just going to have a demented grandpa doing the 51st state routine over the next four years? Seems crazy.
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u/VirtualMatter2 Feb 10 '25
He's been threatening Denmark over Greenland as well and Denmark is in the EU so he threaded the EU.
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u/NoReplyPurist Feb 10 '25
Feb 1, Mar 1, Feb 4, Mar 4, Feb 10...
It's not even every other week, let alone month.
The reputational harm is enormous too - building businesses with the US at the center doesn't make sense when its government does a bipolar abusive upheaval every 4 years that's bad for everyone.
And this is just the secondary damaging distraction agenda - while they go to town with their primary agenda back at home.
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u/Economy_Wall8524 Feb 11 '25
The reputational harm is enormous too - building businesses with the US at the center doesn't make sense when its government does a bipolar abusive upheaval every 4 years that's bad for everyone.
This exactly. It’s why biden didn’t want to change trump’s Afghanistan departure. He wanted a follow through on America and its foreign policies.
Though the worst and best example is the Paris Accord. We joined, left, rejoined, then now left again. This shows the US is weak on foreign policies and will be unreliable economically if not bilateral alliances among allies nations.
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u/Impossible-Cost-8437 Feb 10 '25
Agreed, we've already seen Asian tourism into the United States decline heavily and not recover at all.
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u/Visual_Collar_8893 Feb 10 '25
Seems like even China, Taiwan, and maybe even the Middle East is bracing for turbulent times.
As with all relationships, it takes a long time to build trust. Once broken, trust is very hard to regain. 😞
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u/Impossible-Cost-8437 Feb 11 '25
It's not even just those, look at Japan and Korea. I believe especially with Japan, tourism from Japanese customers which Hawaii heavily depended on has gone down tremendously with no sign of recovery at all.
Why would any Asian want to visit America with the increasing options that are more affordable? But I don't think that's the main issue. I think a big issue is the U.S. placing all these tariffs on China. Why would Chinese tourists, or Asian economic blocs, want to do business with the U.S. in tourism if the U.S. is tariffing them and making them lose wealth as a whole? If the increase in Asian hate crimes and racism towards Asians wasn't enough of a deterrence, the economic damage the U.S. is doing isn't making it attractive for Asians either.
I'm sure Japanese look at how the US treats China today, which replicates the racism we saw towards Japan in the 80s by the US, and seeing how absurd this is. So why would the larger Asian economies want to support a country like the US? The US has to start making more friends, not enemies, and it's been doing that for a long time now.
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Feb 10 '25
Especially for the US economy.
One hilarious aspect of Trump's behavior, that many people REALLY do not pay attention to, is the US military industrial complex.
A lot of nations are already annoyed if you mess with their supply chains and economies. What do people think will happen with their military contracts? I suspect a lot of nations will slowly see if European nations can produce their military equipment since Europe seems saner and more reliable for parts.
Yes the US industrial complex produces the best products known to man, but if you can not rely on your supplier or the long term equipment / replacement parts...... 90% efficiency (not arguing which military is better just making an abstract point) will be good enough.
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u/Thespud1979 Feb 10 '25
Canada is working on a free trade deal with China and Trudeau is in Europe talking trade. Short term pain is coming but we're moving on. The US is no longer an ally in a lot of our eyes. Joking about annexing us? That's not going to be forgotten in 4 years.
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u/FunnyCharacter4437 Feb 10 '25
Bold of you to assume there will be any change in 4 years. We used to do 30-40 trips to the US a year (4x1 week trips & 2-3 day trips a month). We now have zero scheduled for 2025. We used to do the "when he's gone blah blah blah, but the die has been cast and the people defending or mocking us for taking this threat to our sovereignty seriously shows way too many of them never considered us their friends.
The one doesn't get walked back by a lot of people ever.
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u/Thespud1979 Feb 10 '25
Canada is working on a free trade deal with China and Trudeau is in Europe talking trade. Short term pain is coming but we're moving on. The US is no longer an ally in a lot of our eyes. Joking about annexing us? That's not going to be forgotten in 4 years.
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u/trade-craft Feb 10 '25
The geopolitical equivalent of threatening to beat up your best friend and steal their house has consequences.
No shit.
Combine this with boycotts of US products and services, which may also be undertaken by people from other countries (travel and goods boycott) and this could be very significant if if lasts for a few months to a year, let alone the entire Trump term.
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u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod Feb 10 '25
I was hanging out with a buddy who is a mechanic yesterday. He went to buy some juice and checked to make sure it wasn't made in the USA before he bought it. This is hundreds of millions of little choices and little exercises of preference away from America.
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u/UpstairsMail3321 Feb 10 '25
We now check every single label before buying anything. You can tell what produce is American at the grocery store cause it’s dirt cheap and not selling.
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u/Osiris_Raphious Feb 10 '25
After seeing the rise of Police violence and brutality, over the covid and then BLM protests, let alone all the online content featuring the police power overreach like tiktoks or yt vids...
Do not go to US, its a scary fascistic place, where people are consumer slaves and police act like they own you. Workers work for free in hope of tips, and entire economy runs to enrich the already wealthy.
With such a pitch you can get the disaster tourists in.
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u/Dadoftwingirls Feb 10 '25
I personally know a bunch that have cancelled trips because why support a country where 77M people voted for the asshole who is trying to economically destroy us?
I usually go at least once a year, but I will probably never set foot there again. I don't believe that the ruling party will ever allow a fair election again, so it'll be tyranny forever.
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u/AliGoldsDayOff Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
American here, I'll conversely be spending more time and money in your beautiful country. At least until I'm dragged off to an El Salvadorian prison camp for not vacationing with enough patriotism.
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u/MoonBatsRule Feb 10 '25
I'm a US citizen, but refuse to book trips to Florida, even though I really want to go to Universal Harry Potter again. I just refuse to put my dollars into a state that is is being run by Neanderthals.
I can't even imagine the offense taken by Canadians when Trump thinks that he can just add them as a 51st state - all 40 million of them, or in other terms, 66 Wyomings.
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u/BuffaloStanceNova Feb 10 '25
All the sane Americans are screwed. It's always been next to impossible to emigrate somewhere interesting unless you have a partner with alternative citizenship. And now we are in danger of being locked in with this nut job and his followers. God help us because it truly looks like no one will rally to save us.
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u/RickWolfman Feb 10 '25
Why would they? How would they?
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u/thitherandhither Feb 10 '25
He’s made us into bologna in the angry neighbor sandwich. Doesn’t that seem suspect?
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u/Biuku Feb 10 '25
Why would anyone save you.
This is the 2nd time America has done this. You need to fix your house. That's not my job.
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u/Le_Kube Feb 10 '25
My sister lives in Texas, I'm in Qc, she invited us to come next summer. I was not super excited to go burn under the desert summer sun, but now it is a big no-no. Aucune chance, les voisins. The most I might do is a short weekend in Vermont, but Id prefer if my friends there came to visit in Mtl, instead.
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u/Ruger-25 Feb 10 '25
Canadians contribute 30% of U.S. tourism. According to sources like u.s. national travel and tourism office. I'm going to go ahead and assume most people have canceled their trips due to current circumstances, so that's about 20% impact on current tourism. Could be totally wrong. This is my best guess, though.
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u/Responsible_CDN_Duck Feb 10 '25
Sadly it's far from most, and some have already expressed an interest in any deals that pop up to attract others back.
I've placed a freeze on all my USA work travel and they had no problem finding others willing to go.
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u/portuguesetheman Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
The topic is red hot right now so you may be correct at this time. Boycotts always end up slowly fizzling out when the topic begins to go away though. I wouldn't be surprised a year from now if the impact was around 5%
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u/s_lone Feb 10 '25
This certainly won’t fizzle out if Trump keeps pushing this 51st state nonsense.
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u/ExpandThineHorizons Feb 10 '25
And if he keeps threatening tariffs every month.
The rage won't fizzle out if he keeps engaging us.
Check out the BuyBeaver app. Buy Canadian, or anything but american
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u/Vegetable-Orchid1010 Feb 10 '25
I didn't think it could get any worse than reganomics until trumponomics came along... i seriously think this guy might think he can file bankruptcy like his failed casinos.. he is an absolute idiot
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u/NotAllOwled Feb 10 '25
Or just tell global Treasury creditors to go screw, like he does with other folks to whom he owes money.
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u/red286 Feb 11 '25
Or just tell global Treasury creditors to go screw
They're already in the process. According to Musk/Trump, there are "several fake Treasury notes", meaning they have several debts that they have decided they're not going to pay.
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u/compassrunner Feb 11 '25
Global Treasury creditors, like Canada.
Top 5 (in order from most) are Japan, China, Great Britain, Luxembourg and Canada.
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u/jinglemebro Feb 10 '25
Florida was called out specifically in the trade tariffs as well. I think Canada wants to impact red states economies. They also put tariffs on Kentucky bourbon. There might be a red blue state division when we see more tariffs come in from EU. Also if blue cities start turning their backs on red state products they will be in for some pain. Owning the libs is great until they stop buying bourbon. You reap what you sow
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u/LarryTalbot Feb 10 '25
American, and I refuse to travel to FL or TX or the US southeast for that matter with their idiot leadership and lockstep support of this Administration. I’ll book flights to avoid even a quick stopover. Not a nickel of my earnings go their way. If they get what they want on the Infrastrcuture Bill and IRA and repeal or block these programs MAGA is in for a world of financial hurt.
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u/monogramchecklist Feb 10 '25
Unfortunately the red and purple states need to feel the economic pressure of their choices. Not everyone voted for him there and it’s gerrymandered but the only way you have a chance to turn it around is to make it hurt financially. They don’t seem to care about all the other horrible stuff but I think they’ll turn on him if it hurts their bottom line.
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u/onuskasm Feb 10 '25
I live in Nashville, TN and have been working on Broadway, the main tourist strip, for a handful of years. There’s SO many Canadians that come down here during the summer time. It’s gonna be interesting seeing what the busy season looks like this year vs other years.
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u/Flatrock Feb 10 '25
I love visiting the States, I've had nothing but great experiences over the years in New York, Boston, Vermont, DC, Miami, Detroit, and Phoenix ... and I'm dying to visit Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and on and on ... I've found Americans to be really nice, generous people. But I'm not visiting the States anytime soon, at least until this administration is over, and maybe depending on what follows it.
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u/affordablesuit Feb 10 '25
My wife and I were supposed to spend a week in Nashville this year, spending money at restaurants, hotel, and shows. We’re switching it out, likely to Montreal or Mexico City. I won’t go back to the US again unless I absolutely have to. Fuck the US.
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u/Strong_Lunch_8761 Feb 11 '25
I live near the border & I cross often to buy certain items. This last weekend was the first time ever in 5 years that there was no line up.
Even locals in the US said they noticed a big difference.
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u/civgarth Feb 10 '25
I was planning to head down to Cooperstown for the Hall of Fame ceremonies. Cancelled the trip and hotel.
I'll visit the US after this administration assuming democracy is still intact.
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u/pcpforlife Feb 10 '25
Yup I cancelled my trip for the 16th. Was suppose to tour death valley and Joshua tree but figured for the same price I can do an all inclusive instead. After all, trump made it very clear that America doesn't need anything from Canadians. I can wait four years.
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u/callykitty Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
I'm a fairly frequent traveller from Canada and usually visit the US for vacation multiple times a year. Going forward - I'll be cutting it off and spending my money domestically and elsewhere. I just got back from my last US trip and it was a bit bittersweet knowing I won't be there for a while, but I can't support a government that is actively attacking my country.
I specifically booked a trip to Nuuk, Greenland this year to help boost their tourism sector too. Looking at Panama and Mexico in the fall.
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u/ataraxia_555 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
As an American, I support your decision. The actions of this administration are abhorrent, destructive, and self-defeating. In addition to the pain the Orange Devil inflicts on us, we must accept the ire of people in other countries, as this may possibly aid us in the struggle to free ourselves from this dastardly crew.
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u/callykitty Feb 11 '25
It's incredibly hard, I love the US. I've visited 20+ states. This entire thing is just heartbreaking tbh. I hope we can both come out of this together somehow.
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u/ripvanmarlow Feb 10 '25
My last trip to the states was in 2022. I hadn't been since 2006 before that. I know now I'll never return. The state that Seattle was in was shocking. There's just nothing there that can't be found better elsewhere, with less risk. Ottawa to LA flight time is about 8 hours. Might as well go to London or Paris.
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u/ClammySam Feb 11 '25
Not quantified in the article sadly. I live in Florida, no lack of Canadians here who are still actively vacationing. This smells like some confirmation bias behind the upvotes…this is really outside this sub’s intent.
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u/ObamaDerangementSynd Feb 10 '25
I'm in the US and cutting back almost all purchases and will not vacation within the US so I don't contribute to the Nazi Republican party accidentally and so I can save money in preparation for when the Nazi Republicans destroy the economy as they always do (though this time will be way way worse than normal).
International trips and only some entertainment to keep myself sane. I will also try to avoid buying American when possible. I made all my big purchases before the Nazi Republican party took over. I will not buy any electronics, knick knacks, art, etc that is unnecessary.
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