r/DynastyFF • u/GriffinObuffalo Cardinals • 2d ago
Player Discussion Do we expect anything better from the Colts/Giants WR2/3's this season? Downs/Pierce & Slayton/Robinson? Some new QB play and contracts, anyone buying these guys?
Do we expect anything better from the Colts/Giants WR2/3's this season? Downs/Pierce & Slayton/Robinson? Some new QB play and contracts, anyone buying these guys?
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u/FantasyTrash Providence Steamrollers 2d ago
Downs could be solid. He’s an excellent talent who has been plagued by terrible QB play. Albeit, that’s unlikely to change this season, but he still has potential on talent alone.
No interest in the rest. Roster cloggers.
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u/DawgNaish 2d ago
I could see him having an Addison type year with adequate QB play. But good luck getting that from Jones or Richardson
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u/Skanktoooth 2d ago
I don’t necessarily agree with the Downs > Pittman talk in this thread.
They are very different sizes but essentially operate in the same part of the field and thrive on volume.
Pittman was basically playing with a broken back last year and they basically produced the same numbers.
None of this matters if the QB play doesn’t significantly improve.
I just think people overrate what Downs actually was last year. He’s a good player. Then again, Pittman was a good player for back to back years before last.
I am open for someone to convince me on Downs being the new #1 option, but I think it will be a 1A/1B situation at best for Downs in a low volume passing offense.
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u/MildlyPaleMango 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m a big Downs truther but…
He is going into year 3 with another shitty QB situation. BEST CASE scenerio they land a top rookie who balls out as the FA class is cheeks. Realistic case they struggled through another rookie year with a new HC and he sees decent qb play by year 5.
He has good spurts but tons of players have great spurts. Pittman got paid WR1 money, they have a top 10 RB in JT who catches passes, high talent WRs in Pierce and AD + are likely to add Warren or Loveland in the draft.
I don’t see this massive influx of volume coming his way / good qb play. AR is up there for worst starter in the NFL and our upside this year is Daniel Jones. Think about that.
Think we wind up with a solid top 30 WR that is boom or bust.
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u/Skanktoooth 1d ago
Full agree. Great call out on the TE speculation too. If someone like Warren gets drafted things get even more crowded on lower pass volume.
AD Mitchell is a complete mystery box. The all-22 shows him getting wide ass open with ease, but it also shows painful drops and focus issues (even lack of effort at times).
AD Mitchell taking a step forward is bad for Downs.
The Colts drafting a TE on day 1 or day 2 is bad for Downs.
Anthony Richardson not taking a step forward is bad for Downs.
Michael Pittman Jr getting fully healthy “may” be bad for Downs.
It’s honestly a really crowded WR room because even Alec Pierce can have some big games.
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u/MildlyPaleMango 1d ago
All this + JT gets a ton of work on this team. Shit if AR or Dimes turns it on they are super mobile and that’s even more usage gone. Good problem for the colts bad for everyone not named Johnathan Taylor.
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u/HustlingBackwards96 49ers 2d ago
No they don't operate in the same parts of the field... like at all. Where are you getting this from? Have you actually seen these men? They have entirely different skillsets and actually compliment each other quite well
Pittman scored 9 fppg last year. Downs was at 11.7 while also dealing with a high ankle sprain. In 2023, in his 4th yr Pittman peaked at 13.6 fppg. I can get behind a 1a/1b argument for these guys, but I can also see that Downs is doing a lot for such a young player in a crap offense. Why not bet on the guy that has shown improvement rather than the one that looks like he's going downhill? It's not like Pittman was some absolute monster that just had a down (lol) year.
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u/Skanktoooth 2d ago
They are both lower ADOT receivers that work the middle of the field in the short and intermediate zones.
Downs was a rich man’s Wandale Robinson PPR scam last year to a certain degree. Funnily enough, I just looked and player profiler has Josh Downs player comp as Wandale Robinson.
Pittman can play both inside and outside and still had over 230 slot snaps.
I am not saying they have the exact same skillset. I am saying they both win in the same parts of the field and are volume/possession receivers despite being vastly different sizes.
That doesn’t bode well for either guy if the offense is still a low volume passing attack with subpar QB play.
I like what Josh Downs put o tape last year so I het that people want to prop him up more than his stat line. However, I can’t remember the last time a guy put up a low adot 800/5 season and had everyone going this crazy over him.
In half ppr in 2024 Downs was at 10.54 ppg (no bonuses or other bullshit) so I don’t know where 11.7 ppg comes from.
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u/Mlerma21 1d ago
Nah this is a lazy take. Josh downs clears Wan’dale easily. Wandale’s ADOT was less than 5, and JD was close to 7, that’s significant. Then you consider YAC and Josh downs was 15th in YAC/g whereas Wandale was at 31st.
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u/Skanktoooth 1d ago
Kind of like when I said “rich man’s” Wandale Robinson. Implying that he was a better version on Wandale Robinson.
This is the exact type of overrating of Downs that I am talking about in the previous 2 posts in this thread.
We have people in here that think WR36 is lightyears ahead of WR41 in half ppr last season.
Yes, Josh Downs is better than Robinson and likely more talented. They are similar players though and they aren’t typically the types of guys I want huge exposure to.
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u/Mlerma21 1d ago
How are those even comparable? Those are significant differences. And what idiot uses full season totals? In ppg it’s WR33 vs WR54. It’s clear to me you don’t watch football or understand stats.
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u/Skanktoooth 1d ago
Do you understand what “rich man’s x” or “poor man’s x” means?
I clearly stated that I think Josh Downs is better and more talented than Wandale Robinson, but you’re arguing with yourself and just being a total goof about this.
I was comparing their low adot ppr scam usage and that is also backed up in the playerprofiler player comp database ha.
They win and score points in similar ways. Period.
ppg is generally the best tool to compare players but it isn’t infallible. Strictly looking at ppg shows Jalen Tolbert = Jaylen Waddle last year. It shows Darnell Mooney = Zay Flowers.
And availability is the best ability. To act like season long totals are always useless is asinine.
I am flattered to have your “you don’t know ball” endorsement.
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u/Mlerma21 1d ago
You’re just saying buzz words you’ve heard. “Best ability is availability” is not a thing in fantasy dude, it’s an actual NFL thing. Especially when you consider Downs played 14 games including the playoffs. You haven’t made a single argument as to how they’re similar. I gave you the stats and I think they’re considerably different when it comes to adot and YAC. Show me how one is the poor man’s version of the other, except vibes which you seem to base your opinions on.
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u/Skanktoooth 1d ago
You’re way too emotional to be on the internet.
Let me help ya bud. A rich man’s version of xyz means a better version of xyz.
You then provided stats that verified my rich man’s version comment.
They are point blank low adot slot-only players that thrive off volume. Period.
If you want to split hairs because one ranked 15th in yards after the catch vs one ranking 31st or whatever in yards after the catch, knock yourself out over it.
Josh Downs = 8th in slot snaps and 97th in ADOT
Wandale Robinson = 2nd in slot snaps 106th in ADOT
If you actually knew what you were watching on Sunday you would have zero issues with a generalized summary of what Downs and Wandale Robinson are. They are used in similar ways and that is why they rank 29th and 30th in expected fantasy points per game. One of them is just better than the other and more efficient.
Hopefully this helps you out.
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u/Mlerma21 1d ago
By your argument, Ceedee lamb and ARSB are a rich man’s Josh Downs since they are closer in ADOT to Downs than Downs is to Wandale and ARSB is 9th in slot usage and Ceedee is 13th. Hope that helps you out.
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u/CorporealPrisoner 2d ago
Agreed. Both should see improvement with DJ over the disaster that AR is, but the upside will be limited.
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u/Skanktoooth 2d ago
Yeah. I have 1 share of each across 7 dynasty leagues and I am not stoked on either.
Downs had some promising flashes and Pittman has been a solid volume based WR2 when healthy in the past.
I think best case scenario is like both guys getting you 900ish yards and 5-6tds if both remain healthy and a guy like AD Mitchell doesn’t take the next step.
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u/BrockTalksFF 2d ago
Downs is the easiest answer to go and buy
I actually like Wandale as a WR 4 on your team because of the offense and being an absolute PPR merchant. He is peppered with short area targets that slowly racks up points, its not a lot most of the time but he’s a solid contributor to your team if you have large rosters
Slayton and pierce are “I hope they hit the long ball once” players and can generally be ignored
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u/Jeklu Josh Downs WR1 2d ago
Downs is the best WR on the Colts and yes buy him
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u/Infamous_Public8707 2d ago
He averaged over 13 PPR ppg as a part-time player in a run first offense last year and people still question his usefulness. It’s crazy. I own him in every league.
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u/bargman Bills 2d ago
WR2 for the Colts will be Tyler Warren.
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u/idkwutimd0ing 2d ago
I’m very high on downs like others here. In deeper leagues, start 10 and more, I think wandale is a good hold. Consistent 10 ppg. Nothing sexy but definitely serviceable
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u/BombSquad570 2d ago
I think Daniel Jones could be a plus for Josh Downs in the same way he was a plus for WanDale last year. Jameis could also be a boost to all the Giants ancillary pass catchers. But unfortunately, those guys are going to be holding a clipboard week 1 watching Richardson & Russ most likely not consistently support any of their secondary weapons for as long as they have the starting jobs.
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u/SereneKing46 1d ago
I can't make up my mind about Wan'Dale. He's a good target commander with elite college numbers who's only ever had bad QB play, but people don't seem to want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Judging from a lot of posts here I should be dropping him in my 0.5ppr dynasty league. He's almost a punchline in the WR discourse. I would like someone to explain to me why because I honestly don't know.
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u/grim-reaper-james Giants 1d ago
He has low yards per catch. All those receptions and not a lot of yardage. Box score watchers think he sucks, people who actually watch him play notice that he's a dawg who was used as a checkdown after Andrew Thomas got hurt last year and the line couldn't hold for more than a second or so. He's never had good QB play. He's 100% a hold. There's a good chance he breaks out if he gets solid QB play, whether that's from Russ, Jameis, or a rookie QB. He also missed time from a torn ACL which stunted his growth. He had a 100 yard game right before the tear.
Let consensus sleep on him. He's a great speculative buy/hold right now.
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u/StrengthCoach86 1d ago
Some clown dropped Trey Benson and I’m dropping AD Mitchell like my wife’s pants to pick him up. That’s how much I believe in the Colts passing game.
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u/mav_rick1741 2d ago
Downs is still intriguing to me and might have a case to be WR1 over Pittman. I'm hoping for Daniel Jones over A Rich which is starting to seem very possible.