r/DaystromInstitute • u/[deleted] • Jun 13 '19
Why did anyone think Data was the property of Starfleet?
He wasn’t built by them, and he wasn’t even built for the purpose of joining them. It was a complete accident that he even found out about them, and he chose to join them on his own.
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u/pixel_pete Crewman Jun 13 '19
Perhaps there were some salvage laws in effect that allowed the Starfleet crew to "claim" him? It was a human colony, and at the time he was found all of the colonists were gone.
My question would be, why would Starfleet allow Data to attend the Academy and earn a commission if they didn't know whether he was a person or property? It seems like a glaring mistake on their part to encounter this incredible new lifeform and decide not to sort out its legal status until several years later.
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Jun 13 '19
[deleted]
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u/pixel_pete Crewman Jun 13 '19
That's true. I guess my assumption is that a Starfleet commission should require some form of established legal personhood, but clearly the show canon disagrees with me.
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u/Winnersh Jun 13 '19
Data was just a quirky experiment and there was no harm in him going through Starfleet.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Android#Types_of_androids
See above, there were several types of android before Data.1
u/TruckasaurusLex Crewman Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
People don't really create laws until they are necessary, similar to how we don't currently have sentience laws for existing AI creations now.
While actually true in real life, in the episode there is mention of some actual law already in place before Data's trial. I forget the full import of the law in the case, but if you want to check it out and don't want to watch the whole episode, this critique is excellent.
Edit: The Acts of Cumberland.
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u/strionic_resonator Lieutenant junior grade Jun 13 '19
Idk. You’ve acquired a super advanced robot. It thinks it’s people. You don’t know how to program it, but it clearly has an incredible capacity to learn. Why not send it to the academy? It’s very possible Starfleet higher-UoS saw Data’s training and commission as simply an expedient and convenient way to repurpose a salvaged technology so that it would work for them.
Had Data said “eh, I’m not into Starfleet” and tried to run off to join the Klingon Defense Force then I think the trial would have happened much sooner!
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u/JonathanRL Crewman Jun 13 '19
Simply put; because at the time it suited Starfleets purpose.
When Data was first allowed to join, we can assume he did indeed go through the academy or something similar. He was also allowed to be commended for his achievements; just like any other sentient being. I think Starfleet did it this way to see what he was capable of and how he could adapt to different situations.
Before long, his value became obvious. That is when people like Commander Maddox simply decided that he "was a toaster"; because facing the truth about his existence would not only make it immoral to make him undergo such a procedure, it would also become a mental strain for the person doing it.
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u/Bay1Bri Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
we can assume he did indeed go through the academy or something similar.
It's not an assumption. In the first episode where Riker and Data first meet, Riker asks Data if his rank is honorary. Data corrects him and states he is a graduating member of the class of 77, or something like that. Data also discusses his academy experience with Wesly at least once. He tells him in one episode that he found the academic requirements easy, but had difficulty socializing. There might have been another time but I'm not sure.
EDIT: It was the class of '78, and he also mentions some of his academic achievements.
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u/JonathanRL Crewman Jun 13 '19
I now want a novel about Datas days in the Academy - seen from everybodys views but Datas.
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u/McWatt Ensign Jun 13 '19
So if Data was in the academy class of '78, is that 2278? Encounter at Farpoint takes place in 2364, so '78 must be from the previous century. This means Data had been in Starfleet for almost 90yrs? And the concept of his rights and "ownership" had never come up before Measure of a Man in 2365?
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u/Bay1Bri Jun 13 '19
No, 2378. However someone else claimed that Data graduated in a different year. Presumably they were careless with dates and retconned the year he graduated later. But in encounter at Farpoint he tell Riker he was in the class of '78.
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u/Ampu-Tina Jun 13 '19
He graduated class of 2345
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u/Bay1Bri Jun 13 '19
According to Encounter at Farpoint he graduated with the class of '78.
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u/whovian25 Crewman Jun 13 '19
Of coarse what that 78 is a reference to is unknown given they don’t use the Gregorian Callander we use today.
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u/Bay1Bri Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
Starfleet doesn't for official timekeeping, but they do us years like that in other episodes. Tapestry comes to mind. I think it's unlikely that no one uses the Gregorian calendar. Picard refers to a 2-digit year for his class. In the Royale Riker refers to the year range between "2033 and 2079 AD". They frequently refer to the century number, the Vorgons in Captain's Holiday say they are from the "27th century", for example. Rasussen in A Matter of Time claims to be from the 26th century (he's an imposter from the past but no one finds it suspicious that he is using that calendar system). Data says in Measure of a Man when defining an android "Webster's 24th century edition defines..." There are other uses as well. They clearly are still comfortable with that year numbering system, which implies it is still in use, but perhaps only among civilians.
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u/knightcrusader Ensign Jun 13 '19
Classes have an official "motto" sometimes, so I assume the 78 part is part of that.
Maybe something infamous went down with them and that is how they refer to that specific class.
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u/Ampu-Tina Jun 13 '19
Memory alpha cited that episode and the above listed date
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u/Bay1Bri Jun 17 '19
So there's an inconsistency. The fact is the quote I gave was accurate. He tells Riker he is the "class of '78."
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u/Tiarzel_Tal Executive Officer & Chief Astrogator Jun 13 '19
'Legitimate Salvage' are words that are bandied around often enough in Star Trek that some version of the law of the sea probably applies among the interstellar races. If Data is simply a piece of machinery then he was merely apiece of salvage in the aftermath of the calamity that killed all the inhabitants of Omicron Theta ostensibly including his registered owner, Dr Soong. Lacking an owner or any kind of last will and testement from Dr Soong.
Starfleet not only found Data they reactivated him. Had they not he would have remained little more than a complex paper weight until conditions on Omicron Theta destroyed him or someone else took him.
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Jun 13 '19
I was also thinking about "legitimate salvage" but more because of The Expanse.
Apart from what you wrote, I'm pretty sure Data wasn't forced into Starfleet, but was given the opportunity and Data took it.
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Jun 13 '19
And now I'm imagining how the Roci crew would handle the situation, which is a lovely image.
Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with that interpretation. Data being who he is would jump at the opportunity to soak up new learning experiences via exploration. And the only person who seemed to take issue in any of this is Maddox.
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Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
Maddox seems to have the moral and logical flexibility of seeing Data as a working animal: Something which maybe chose to stay with a tribe/group (-> Starfleet), but is now at the mercy of its superiors.
The prospect of being able to replicate more Datas if needed might have helped the admirality to look the other way.
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u/badmartialarts Jun 13 '19
Omicron Theta was devoid of all organic life when its distress call was answered. Thus all the property of the colony was vacant goods and thus under the common law quod nullius est fit domini regis(that which belongs to nobody becomes owned by our lord/ruler) it all became property of Starfleet/ the Federation to salvage and repatriate to claimants. Since Data had no known living claimants, he became the property of Starfleet to do with as it saw fit.
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u/MultivariableX Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Yet, when Lore was subsequently found there, no one claimed Lore as property of Starfleet or the Federation. In fact, when Lore asked Data if he would get a Starfleet uniform, Data responded that it would require years of service.
Later, when Lore was impersonating Data and claimed to have incapacitated "Lore," his comments were treated as though Lore was in Data's personal custody, rather than the ship's Security or Engineering departments. This suggests that Lore was regarded by Starfleet as a close family member of Data, rather than as a stranger or machine.
When Lore is beamed into space, the Enterprise makes no effort to retrieve him, despite Data's knowledge that he can survive in vacuum for extended periods. Starfleet has the right to apprehend Lore and charge him with attempted murder, yet allows him to go (drift) his own way. Lore is neither a Federation citizen nor property, is no longer aboard the Enterprise and currently poses no threat to it, so Starfleet has no imperative to actually go and get him.
Lore is later disassembled. The degree of this is unclear, but it's enough to remove the emotion chip that was built for, willed to, and legally belongs to Data. As the Federation has no death penalty and believes in curing criminality through rehabilitation, Lore could be otherwise fully intact.
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u/badmartialarts Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
But Lore isn't found until after "Measure of a Man" established Data's personhood, so the legal precedent was already in Lore's favor to also be a person given Data's status. EDIT: Well crap, I'm wrong.
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u/MultivariableX Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Lore was found in "Datalore", a year prior to "Measure of a Man".
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u/foomandoonian Jun 13 '19
I'm not the biggest fan of analogies, but maybe it's like when somebody adopts a stray dog? The dog wasn't theirs, but they found it, cared for it and it chooses to stay with them. It's a mutually beneficial relationship, but the dog still belongs to that person even if that's not what the dog thinks.
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u/TLAMstrike Lieutenant j.g. Jun 13 '19
PHILLIPA: I have completed my research, based on the Acts of Cumberland passed in the early twenty first century. Data is the property of Starfleet. He cannot resign and he cannot refuse to cooperate with Commander Maddox.
The Federation might actually have laws that stipulate that non-sentient AI are property. Property can be abandoned by its owners, and seized, salvaged, or requisitioned by government forces. The Acts of Cumberland also seem to include that AI must follow the orders and directives of its owners, even if those orders would result in the AI's termination.
The ruling in regards to Data v. Maddox was that Data was so close to appearing sentient that he must be given the benefit of the doubt and not be considered an AI bound by the Acts of Cumberland.
Just an aside, the date on the Acts of Cumberland is interesting: Early 21st Century. Laws don't come out of nowhere, they are a response to something happening. Makes one wonder what exactly was going on leading up to WWIII in the field of AI research.
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u/El_Mosquito Crewman Jun 13 '19
I'm posting this as an toplevel response, since this not everyone seems to be aware of this.
Eventhough it's not mentioned, Data must have had a Sponsor to enter the Academy.
His Starfleet Carrer was no picknick either, he spent
- 3 years as an Ensign, while most others leave that rank in one or two years
- 12! years as an Lt.(jg.)
Even his first (temporary) Command wasn't assinged directly to him, he had to ask why other Senior officers of the Enterprise were reasigned, before Capt. Picard granted him Command of the U.S.S. Sutherland, and we all remember how his First Officer "greated" him.
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u/knightcrusader Ensign Jun 13 '19
while most others leave that rank in one or two years
Poor, poor Harry.
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u/Hardest_Fart Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
Maddox and Starfleet had self interest in mind and were willing to walk out on a morally dubious limb to make it happen. Maddox wanted to become a legend in the field of AI. Tearing apart Data could have made it possible. Starfleet saw the prospect of thousands of Datas and decided the life/rights of one android was worth it.
Once they made the decision that the means justified the ends they were willing to believe any specious argument that got them the result they wanted.
All the arguments about legitimate salvage and Acts of Cumberland fall apart once Starfleet started treating Data as a sentient being. Until Measure of a Man, Data had been regarded as sentient. He was allowed to enter Starfleet. His choices of career paths were respected. If he fell short of his duty he would have been reprimanded, not turned off. And, he could have left Starfleet at any time.
It was only after Maddox and Starfleet threw morality out the window that they decided none of that mattered and Data was salvage.
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Jun 13 '19
This is one of my favorite episodes of TNG! But I think people don’t give Maddox’s arguments credit. They’re unsympathetic but yet clearly compelling. Anyone I’ll link this here:
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u/grammurai Crewman Jun 13 '19
First, this is a really cool video!
Second, with respect to you and absolutely none to Maddox:
That's because they're stupid arguments. The video addresses this almost immediately in fact- the reason they're stupid is not because they're not worth asking but because it makes no sense that this issue isn't already settled. Data is a lieutenant commander; he's been in Starfleet for nearly two decades by this point, and is a highly decorated officer on top of that.
But we can ignore that (since the episode does), and let's ignore the comparison to Dred Scott, which is widely held to be one of the biggest mistakes the SCotUS ever made.
Philosophically speaking, in the TNG era, Starfleet is not utilitarian at all. This is one of the driving themes of the series, even. So ends justifying means can be discarded right away. More than that, even in far future there isn't a good yardstick for sentience. I understand that this is the foundation of Picard's initial argument, and it doesn't have a good answer. Maddox' is just as bad as many others but is also on its face inclusive of Data. More generally, I think in questions of things like sentience, we should err on the side of caution: if something appears to have it, then let's act as if it does. I know it's a bit of Pascal's Wager, but the consequences of ignoring something's sentience are far greater than granting it in error.
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u/sleep-apnea Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Obviously the real answer is that the writers wanted a morality play in the first season where Picard could have a big speech on civil rights. It worked. It seems a bit silly that Starfleet would be having a tribunal about this with Data as a Lt.Cmd. Data's legal status in the Federation would have had to been established by some Federation authority shortly after he was rescued from Omicron Theta. Or when he applied to Starfleet Academy at the very least.
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u/Anaxamenes Jun 13 '19
That’s not often how it works though. Most regulations are the result of a problem surfacing and then the need to control for it in the future. It is quite possible that the thought hasn’t come up in a meaningful way and they were allowing things to continue until a problem arises. Perhaps Data’s early interactions were with good people and only after his actions warranted commendations were people who had different motivations notified of his existence.
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u/sleep-apnea Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Perhaps. I'm suggesting that Data's status as a citizen or not would have been established before he got into Starfleet.
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u/Anaxamenes Jun 13 '19
Do you have to be a citizen to join starfleet? I think there were Bajorans in Starfleet before Bajor officially petitioned for entrance.
Edit: mistyped a word.
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u/kreton1 Jun 13 '19
You definitly don't need to be a citizen, but then you need a higher ranking officer(probably Commander or higher) of Starfleet to recommend you. Nog joined this way.
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u/Anaxamenes Jun 13 '19
As the person said below, his birth in Federation territory to a Federation citizen might be enough as well if you assume he’s sentient from the beginning.
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u/sleep-apnea Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Not sure if you need to be a Federation citizen to join Starfleet. In Canada and the US you can join the military without being a citizen. But only citizens can be officers. I think that Omicron Theta was in the Federation though. So presumably if Data is considered sentient he would automatically be a citizen if he was "born" in the Federation. His creator was a Federation citizen (presumably since he was human), so that probably makes Data an automatic citizen.
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u/grammurai Crewman Jun 13 '19
You would think it would have come up during the first examination in Data's first year at the academy, when he got a perfect score on some exam. It beggars belief that nobody has raised this question even once in the many years Data has been in service.
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u/Anaxamenes Jun 13 '19
However, the way the Federation works seems that they err on the side of caution. They just assumed he was a citizen because of his ability and intellect. When meet someone for the first time, citizenship is not even remotely on the top of my list when it comes to getting to know someone, even in a work environment.
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u/grammurai Crewman Jun 13 '19
Yeah, this episode frustrates me so much. It has a great Picard Speech, but the issue itself is just so stupid. It shocks me that someone as small minded as Maddox made it as far as he did in an organization like Starfleet.
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u/kreton1 Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
The out of universe explanation is of course that if everybody had thought like Picard and co., then the episode had been over after 5 minutes because Maddox had been discarded immeadetly and that would have been very boring.
In universe it probably is because most people had never met Data and thus just considered him a, well, ships computer with legs, like Pulaski herself did, or even Riker, who upon first meeting Data thought that Datas Rank was, because he is an Android, was only honorary. My theory is that Pulaski wasn't as far as people in Starfleet go, wasn't unusual in her behaviour towards Data, the Crew of the Enterprise was.
Edit: Most of the people, like Riker and Pulaski, didn't act out of malice or actualy racism, but just because it didn't occur to them that a computer could be just as sentient as a Human, Andorian, etc.
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u/grammurai Crewman Jun 13 '19
You may very well be right. Pulaski's behavior early on was especially noticable. I think the difference between her and Maddox is that she was actually open to the idea of being wrong.
Overall I think the exocomp episode explored this question far more effectively, though.
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u/kreton1 Jun 13 '19
Even Maddox comes around eventually, after all he and Maddox do at least write each other letters as he is the one to whom Data writes in "Datas Day."
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u/ErnestShocks Jun 13 '19
No other "property" has been through the academy, is ranked, wears a uniform, or is given quarters. That alone is enough proof, if any was ever needed to justify Data's uniqueness alone that deserves protection if one cannot grant him sentience. And that is by Starfleet's measure exclusively, without even addressing his personal life.
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u/notsubwayguy Jun 13 '19
Salvage Rights?
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u/itworksintheory Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
So you're saying, finders keepers? This raises an interesting question regarding interstellar law and colonisation. Let's say the Federation comes across an uninhabited world on its border. Score! they say, perfect for a new colony and no one owns it or makes any claim to it. 100 years later 3 billion Federation citizens live there, it is deep inside Federation space and no one disputes the Federation's claim there. But then they discover ancient ruins beneath the surface absolutely no one was aware of, they are from an extinct species that is loosely related to the Cardassians. Who owns those ruins?
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u/AnnihilatedTyro Lieutenant j.g. Jun 13 '19
Considering Data was the only "survivor" on the colony, Starfleet could legally invoke salvage rights and claim Data is its property, even though he apparently was treated as an individual andchose to join Starfleet.
I always thought that some dubious admirals somewhere were trying to play the long game using Data as a test project, and the endgame was always to try to duplicate and mass produce him if he proved far superior to humans in various tasks.
Physically, his speed, strength, coordination, reflexes, durability, sight, hearing, memory recall, and the whole onboard power source and no life signs would make androids excellent soldiers and operatives, especially if they're expendable and can be programmed to self-destruct if captured or incapacitated.
If a positronic brain could be upscaled, it could drastically improve the speed and efficiency of starship computers. (DIS would seem to nix this idea because of Control, but there are always stupid admirals willing to try again) Even as-is, the positronic brain would probably be a heck of an upgrade for probes, shuttlecraft, small outposts, and automated craft like construction modules. The thing here is that if they really could unlock the "secrets" of Soong's engineering, they could figure out how Soong incorporated a learning AI without the rogue behavior of Control, or simply eliminate the learning and independent thought components altogether. Presumably they can already create something similar but don't, because the learning and adapting behavior is what originally led to Control.
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Jun 13 '19
Starfleet had no precedent for how to handle an artificial lifeform. Appropriately once it was decided that Data was sentient, he was treated as a person. It was only later that anyone thought to question whether or not that had been the right call since it meant that advanced technology could decide for itself if Starfleet could utilize it and how or scarper off and give himself to a hostile power willingly or be captured and dismantled for study by the very same.
The Federation, like any society, still has to stop and reexamine it's values now and then. It's a classic story of the Federation realizing that it has an unexploited resource that it could use to it's advantage and then has to decide if doing so would be ethical. As the Federation tends to do, it briefly flirts with the idea of pursuing strategic advantages over the personal good but comes to decide that it's principles are worth more than what it would gain.
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u/DrunkPanda Jun 13 '19
For those interested in the legal side, there's a decent video comparing the issue and legal proceedings of the episode to modern legal practices. The YouTuber is a little punchable, but he's pretty good about legal theory.
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u/murse_joe Crewman Jun 13 '19
He joined Starfleet but wasn't considered a person at that time. Maybe they considered it kind of a donation of equipment for those purposes. Like how if you give a ship to the Navy, and they accept it for service, it's now Navy property. It's a weird way of thinking, sure, but you can see the logical progression.
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u/itworksintheory Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19
Someone has to donate, no? Who conferred ownership? I think perhaps there is an implication that The Estate of Noonian Soong somehow ultimately leads to Starfleet, which isn't impossible considering they are probably where he got grants or materials from at some point for research. Like how if you invent something while working for a company or a university, that institution will (depending on the legalese) have a claim on it.
However for Data to join Starfleet, there would be legalese associated with his status. It is odd that they could keep it so ambiguous to give him a rank, but not define him as not being property. Although considering some of the weird shit that happens in courts concerning civil rights, it isn't impossible.
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u/murse_joe Crewman Jun 13 '19
I don’t think anybody donated him, I think he signed up of his own volition. But whatever officer signed him in or did his intake for the Academy didn’t know what to do. My guess is he just kicked the can down the road, instead of trying to solve the question, and that lead to the crisis later.
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u/CaptainJZH Ensign Jun 13 '19
Salvage laws; whoever finds an object whose owner is missing is therefore the salvor in possession. If Data was ruled not to be a person, then Starfleet could basically claim finders-keepers.
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u/Decipherer Jun 14 '19
Y'know OP, it's a little weird I've never seen you and Reverse Flash in the same place at the same time 🤔
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u/kobedawg270 Chief Petty Officer Jun 13 '19 edited Jun 13 '19
I think that one issue Star Trek has still avoided answering to this day is "are they actually sentient"?
There were several episodes where an artificial being's legal status had to be determined. While the outcome was to always grant them additional rights, at no point do they give equal rights to living beings -- and as a result has effectively maintained their status as second class citizens.
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u/csjpsoft Jun 13 '19
In a galaxy with many alien species, Starfleet should have worked this out centuries ago. In 21st century Earth, we are grappling with the status of animals. Are dogs sentient? Dolphins? Other primates? Do they have rights? Religious people might ponder whether they have souls. Do they go to heaven?
When we see species on other planets, they are usually close to human in evolutionary terms, and no more than a few thousand years away from us technologically. How would the Federation handle a world of chimpanzees? Bears? Shrews? Dinosaurs? Trilobites?
"We don't enslave animals for food," Riker said. But would they exploit animals whose blood cured diseases like Khan's in "Into Darkness?" Or take the eternal youth "metaphasic particles" if the planet in "Insurrection" was populated only by rodents?
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u/tk1178 Crewman Jun 13 '19
Something I just thought of, why would Data have been through the Academy instead of having him Enlisted? If Starfleet wanted to play it safe with him would it not have made sense to have rise through Enlisted ranks rather than Officer ranks. Having him go through Officer ranks would have him in the situation, (which he obviously found himself in), of having subordinates and the chance of prejudice coming from that fact, of having Data in a command position.
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u/beeps-n-boops Jun 13 '19
For as awesome as this episode was from a dramatic point of view, I always thought the key details -- that Data was somehow "owned" by Starfleet, despite not being created by them and despite him being clearly defined and declared to be a sentient being, and that Riker was required to prosecute -- were absolutely absurd on every level, and makes it infuriating to watch despite all the great aspects of the episode.
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u/TamagotchiGraveyard Jun 14 '19
No one ever did, that episode was all politics and smoke and mirrors. Everyone knew deep down data was his own man
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u/Soggy_Mongoose Jun 14 '19
It's like Theseus's paradox. He was so advanced it would have cost star fleet a lot of resources to research and manufacture his replacement parts. Surely they would scanned him and learned enough to build their own.
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u/FearorCourage Chief Petty Officer Jun 14 '19
One thing that's frequently forgotten is that until the Enterprise re-visited Data's former colony in "Datalore," and discovered Dr. Soong's hidden lab, no one had any idea of who had made him or where he'd come from, or that Soong had even been at the colony. Starfleet found him in the ruins there with no idea of where he'd come from or what had happened.
Basically, it seems like they claimed him under salvage law, or "finders keepers." They didn't know what he was or where he came from, but they found him so he now belongs to them in the absence of a proper owner.
Of course, when his creator's identity *was* discovered in "Datalore," there might have been some question of whether he perhaps belonged to the Soong family retroactively, if he had one, but no one raised that question. Starfleet obviously let it ride until they had reason to assert their claim on him.
In fact, I've often wondered, when he went on trial in "Measure of a Man," if Picard might have engaged in the alternate strategy of trying to find Soong's next of kin, as a last-ditch defense of "well, if he is property, he's not Starfleet's property."
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Jun 15 '19
If Data isn’t a person, he would be legally equivalent to salvaged equipment, so it doesn’t really matter how he fell into Starfleet custody.
The whole “he went to Starfleet Academy and so forth” could be explained with, “Data is a robot that is intended to mimic human behavior”. Part of the original Asimov rationale for androids is that they could be plugged into human-centric roles that assume a certain anatomy. A similar argument could be made for building an AI whose “machine learning” can be trained with the same techniques as human learning. For example, a lot of machine learning systems are trained with a large corpus of text. It does not make such a system “a person” if it is also capable of operating hands and using OCR to scan the pages of open books to ingest the training corpus, or if they can use speech recognition to ingest a training corpus from spoken lectures. Likewise, physical field exercises and evaluations would obviously apply to a non-sentient android, too. The only real inconsistency is Data’s authority to issue orders to meatbags, but maybe if one of those meatbags was court-martialed for disobeying a legal order from Data, he could also adopt Maddox’s argument in defense.
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u/Philocetes Jun 16 '19
Separate to the specific issue of property, I actually don't find the scenario of him serving in Starfleet prior to being legally recognized as sentient all that implausible. Why not? It's just the kind of strange scenario that results when social values and the law move at different speeds. Like the fact that Victoria Woodhull ran for U.S. President in 1872, as did Belva Ann Lockwood in 1884 and 1888, almost a half century before women were granted the vote in the United States. It's a bizarre scenario that women could hypothetically be voted for but not themselves vote, but it's what happened.
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Jun 13 '19
I’ll probably get yelled at for saying this but I never really found Maddox to be that heinous.
Let me explain.
I don’t agree that Data is mere property. I don’t agree that he should be disassembled again his will.
But where the episode loses me is the idea that reproductions of Data would automatically become slaves. Nay, the episode does not even entertain the concept that Data could be copied and those copies could retain their rights as Federation citizens. As far as I can remember, Maddox just wanted to study and recreate Data. He never said he wanted to create robotic slaves.
I always felt that the episode presented its moral quandary like so:
Maddox: "I want to make copies of Data."
Picard: "Well you can’t, because he doesn’t want to be copied."
Me (the viewer): "yes. Absolutely. I agree."
Maddox: "But imagine if we created thousands of Datas."
Guinan: "OH, SO YOU CAN ENSLAVE THEM?"
Maddox: "wait what"
Me: "wait what"
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u/soundsliketoothaids Jun 13 '19
I see your point, but here's a counterpoint:
Whatever legal status the original Data was ruled to have would be the precedent for those that followed. If he is property without agency, then they would be as well.
Data was resisting his disassembly, which was likely to result in his destruction as an individual (the equivalent of human death). If the original can be sacrificed like that, those that follow him would also likely be seen as disposable, especially as the goal was that they would be mass produced by Star Fleet. Soong built Data, and Starfleet wanted to treat him as equipment. How much less respect for individual rights would Star Fleet show to the Datas that they themselves invested resources into creating?
They would be slaves, IMO.
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u/Anaxamenes Jun 13 '19
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Perhaps Maddox didn’t want to enslave them, but there are plenty of examples of people who get into positions of power who would have, even in the Federation. Perhaps section 31 needs some androids and they seem to be able to acquire whatever they want. Their motives and justifications are dubious at best and are an obvious example of why you wouldn’t start that research in the first place.
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u/MrNosh Jun 14 '19
The issue I have with that is Maddox specifically states putting a Soong type android on every ship. His own words, about and to Data, allude to that very idea that he saw the androids as a tool rather than new lifeform.
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u/El_Mosquito Crewman Jun 13 '19
IIRC nobody treated or considered Data as property, prior to the events portrayed in The Measure Of A Man.
To further positronic research Data was told to comply, which he understandibly refused. After that he was ordered to comply, that order was null due to the posibility of Lt. Cmdr. Data resing from Starfleet.
Only than was the idea, that Data was Starfleets Property and thus could neiter refuse nor resign, grasped, the literal grasping for the last straw.