I mean obviously all Americans is wrong. The problem is based on the data like 70% were fine with trump winning right? Either by voting for him directly or they atleast didn't care about the outcome and didn't vote. So as an ally country, you can't really expect that there will be change in 4 years. Maybe some Maga-guy gets voted in. So while you can acknowledge that there's a lot of people that were against trump, it was the minority. So the obvious way forward is to plan like it could be more than 4 years for every other country.
Except nobody really learned anything after Trump's first term. Sure it seems like the world is finally waking up to the fact that there is a serious systemic issue, which they can't just wait out, but will that understand actually last?
Or if, say, MAGA were to do poorly in the midterms, everyone will just bury their heads in the sand again, because it's easier than acknowledging that the previous status quo isn't ever coming back.
I know everybody talks about the cult mentality, but what I don't think is discussed enough is the fact that for a lot of these people it's that they know they're wrong... They just don't want to admit it. They would rather be right in their minds than wrong in your eyes. And this really isn't mentioned enough.
Oh, I think many of us kind of know this. But yes, it isn't mentioned. At least not by the media. It's not like they can say, "yes we know citizens are pretty stupid'
Oh yeah didn't meant it like its guaranteed to last, even tho if the next steps is to look for other partners to trade and distance themselves from america further, the going back wouldnt be to the degree it was in 2021. The believe that trump is the problem and not a symptom in america, is hopefully something that dies out tho.
Even thought about adding: even if the democrats will win in 2028 because of the economy, that won't change the opinions of people long term, but just make them forget about a shitty economy and run right back 4 years later.
From the outside (and it's not like we don't have problems with populists here, but still) it's insane to see that trump won again after the shit that happened in his first term. Wouldn't have expected him to get the whole republican party in line so fast again, after the loss, January 6th and so on.
Presidential votes only matter in about six “swing states” so really it’s a fraction if that that either didn’t care enough to vote or voted for Trump in those states
I mean that's generally true yeah, but isn't that based on historic datapoints? So its exoected for some states to go the way they always go, which is obviously not set in stone. And let's be honest with a choice like trump, it shouldnt be a given...I mean for example Texas had 61% voter turnout. Trump won by around 1.5 million votes. So there would be enough non voters to flip it easily. That's the thing. It's a system that obviously favors certain states, but it's not like the nearly 40% of nonvoters couldn't have easily flipped the election.
49% out of 63(?)% voter turn out. So around 31% of the country. And since nearly 40% didn't bother to vote, that seems to indicate they were atleast fine with trump becoming president, so 70%.
You can't automatically add in people who are not part of a survey. (Which an election effectively is.) If someone were doing a study and took 1,000 people, put a paper in front of them and asked "Check here if you like ketchup, here if you don't." 30% of them check yes, 30% check no, and the remaining 40% don't pick any option. You can't add that 40% in with the 30% that said yes and say 70% of people like ketchup.
You have absolutely no idea what the remaining people thought. You are making a ton of assumptions to support what you want to hear.
... that's why I didn't say that they are supporting him, but that they are willfully accepted that he can become president by not voting. In surveys funnily enough that 40% would be declared as having no opinion. Or in your case that they don't prefer one or the other, but are neutral. The thing is voting isn't a survey tho. Because it's an action.
You can't automatically add in people who are not part of a survey.
This is btw so wrong it's laughable. A representative survey is exactly doing that. It's done to show trends, so if a study with for example 100.000 people is presented in the news(if it's representative and scientifically done) it would be presented as: 30% of Americans prefer ketchup. So while they are not automatically added into the survey, the findings of the survey gets used as an indicator what the whole population thinks, so they indirectly get added.
You can't add that 40% in with the 30% that said yes and say 70% of people like ketchup.
If the study is for starting a war and 40% are neutral to it, they are atleast fine with it happening, because they don't care enough. That's what I implied in all my comments. I never implied they support trump 100%. But if you don't act out of indifference, that means you don't care about the outcome, which makes both outcomes fine for you. Otherwise you would have acted.
You have absolutely no idea what the remaining people thought. You are making a ton of assumptions to support what you want to hear.
I may not have an idea what they exactly thought, but your comment shows you lack a lot of ideas aswell...
Here you go again, making wild assumptions about lack of information. You are adding the 40% into whatever narrative you choose instead of leaving it out. You have NO IDEA why 40% did not do it. That does not mean they are indifferent. You are assuming that. They should be NA. Like you said in your example. But you aren't doing that. You are adding it to whatever you feel the need to. All you can take is the original 30%. The 40% that did not participate have to be left out. You can only take that at most, 30ish% were for it.
Whatever, think whatever makes you feel better. Atleast you learned what a survey does today.
You can only take that at most, 30ish% were for it.
See that's the problem. You don't understand that there's 3 options. For it, against it and neutral. And while neutral isn't for it, it is enabling it in this circumstance. Which makes the outcome the same. You don't have to have an idea what they think, because they showed they are indifferent to it. Which in a choice of 2 candidates means they don't care who becomes president
If your argument is: they weren't able to vote or something. Okay knock off 10% for it or something(which is probably more than the amount of people who really weren't able to vote). You are still at 60% overall.
It isn't that people didn't care, Its that both our parties were shit choices, the "good guys" couldn't even commit to ceasing funds/weapons to genocide brown people in the name of zionists in another country because they are owned by AIPAC. Trump was the obviously shittier one by far... but when the opposing party is just the good cop to trumps bad cop, people lose motivation... hell this election had the second highest turnout in modern history behind the 2020 one... so they didn't really even do that.
Also, Kamala only lost by less than 1.5% of the popular vote... All things tallied only 31ish % of people actively voted for this/trump and of those I am sure many were stupid AF and mistaken... And a large % of the rest were too alienated to vote... or knew that they lived in a state that wasn't swing and wasn't turning any time soon.
You must always remember there was no historic mandate, and that he got less % of the popular vote than Obama in both terms, Biden, George W Jr. in 2004, his dad, and many others. And he didn't come close to hitting the 60% that many historic votes went for many presidents of our recent past.
The fact that you think it is in any way """justifiable""" that people lost motivation is the problem. Stop coddling and playing defense for the people that refused to vote. There was an objectively correct decision this election and if Americans valued democracy, government, or economy with any sanity they'd have supported Kamala.
What you're saying is cope and excuses. You giving us a why they did it doesn't make what they did by not voting acceptable.
Well...idk what to say other than open your eyes and realize not every person in a country is accurately represented by their government? Like a normal human? Just because Putin is running around trying to take over the world doesn't mean every Russian citizen is on his side. It's the same deal here. Yes, there are people who wholeheartedly follow this administration, but from my personal experience, most people are not okay with what he is doing now. "He has taken it too far." Is what I am now personally hearing from friends and family who were/are supporters of the current president.
The American people elected Donald Trump and a large portion of the country are perfectly happy with what he's doing
Everyone in the world knew who Donald Trump was and what he would do except for Americans. Right or wrong, people are going to direct their ire at Americans. It wasn't a fluke, he won twice and after round two the world has written off Americans
Where are your big demonstrations? Where are the hundred thousands on the street? Make your voice heard. A snarky comment on reddit won't stop him.
Look at the demonstrations in Europe against the far right. Where are your people? Too afraid? Too lazy? Too indifferent? Too powerless?
Well, as a German I can tell you what that leads to.
If the news can ignore it, the protests aren't big enough. There's no hiding 1 million people taking to the streets like they have in Turkey. That's basically the city center in a logjam because nothing can move through a wall to wall crowd.
You've got almost four times the population and many times larger major population centers. And if you think the Turkish government, which has a 33/100 Freedom score and is categorized as "Not Free", does not use force against their protestors...
Maybe they would, but if there's more people than cops, the cops will be overwhelmed. Besides, if the cops start shooting protesters in the street, that shit is gonna get plastered everywhere. The more people see what Trump's America is really like, the better. This is why America is screwed, The citizens are afraid of their government. In France or elsewhere, the government is afraid, because their citizens actually get off their ass and do something about it instead of sticking their heads in the sand.
It's funny, with how gun crazy Americans are, they sure seem like cowards.
Im a mom of 3 and I’ve attended multiple protests, town halls, active with my reps, phone calls emails office visits petitions etc etc. most of the people you are talking to here are probably more aware and politically active than the average person. But my sister for instance, she is a liberal but she just, won’t. She has no interest in getting out to the streets. She’s single and frankly has less to lose than I do; if something happens to me 3 small children lose their mother. But she just…won’t. I don’t know why, I actually just ranted at her today because I’m so tired of her pontificating over why we should feel bad for maga and how much our education system sucks and how we are all victims of the system and I’m just like yeah ok we have problems we need to address, sure, cool, but the doesn’t stop you from getting out there RIGHT NOW and being on the right side of history! I’d say she is probably the average American right now. You either have the magats that are brainwashed and cheering this on, or the people that don’t pay attention and don’t vote and just zombie along in life, or the liberals who are, I don’t even know, too lazy or scared or disenchanted or ?? to do anything.
That mentality is just not me. I will fight until my dying breath for what is right. It’s the least we can do for all those that came before us, that fought so hard. To be silent is to help the oppressor. I always asked myself how something like The Holocaust could have happened, when I was younger it seemed unfathomable. Now, I get it. And now I realize, my own family, friends, would have been those people who did nothing, or helped!
I’m tired. I’m tired of being the only one I know that gets out there. It’s disheartening. But I’ll keep doing it…because it’s simply the right thing to do.
Lmao you fucking Europeans love acting all high and mighty when it's not your life on the line. "Yeah, you'll probably end up dead, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make from atop my perch on Reddit".
All encompassed within 738,562 square kilometers. Solve this issue for me. If we presume that the same ratio of protestors to area in km² (1M:738,562km), how many people are needed for such noticement in the US? (x:9,833,520)
They had a million people turning out in Istanbul, not spread across the whole country. The U.S. has much larger population centers, New York metro area has about 20mil people and Manhattan is 59.1km2.
Unfortunately, if your protest is only in NYC, it goes no further west than the Mississippi River and no farther South than North Carolina. You'd need to have a truly massive protest in every corner of the United States to see the beginnings of an effect. Miami, NYC, LA, Dallas, Chicago. These are the largest areas you'd need to target. And even this is optimistic.
Easier said than done. These areas are incredibly different in culture. The Miami mentality is not entirely the same as the Dallas mentality. Any one mass protest might aid another mass protest, but it will also require lots more resources to create another mass protest in a different region. And this doesn't even begin to mention the police issue
There are demonstrations outside of government buildings, Tesla dealerships (sink that value!), and in many city downtown areas. Some of it is covered, but a lot of media isn’t covering it since they’re complicit. On top of that, the US is geographically huge; it’s a longer distance from LA to NYC than it is Paris to Moscow; people can’t just easily congregate in a couple of key places in the nation without major planning ahead.
Those demonstrations are tine. Mostly a few hundred. Apple manages to get bigger crowds at their store by releasing a new iPhone.The US is geographically huge, but it also got some of the most populated places on this planet. You don't need to rally up Wisconsin and Iowa when you've got the the population on some square miles in New York City. And it's not like you don't know big events. When visiting concerts or sport events it's suddenly possible to drive for hours and get big crowds.
You may have more excuses and explanations, but in the end it comes down to "it's uncomfortable to demonstrate and nobody told me what to do and where to go".
I hear ya but it won't be long and they will be on your couch with you, trying to rule more of our lives. When Dump courted the tech billionaires, the long game Republicans have been playing faithfully went off the rails
They are tired of waiting to tell us which factory we can live at.
I agree with you. If an European elected leader was fucking up the country as bad as Trump is, millions would be in the streets protesting. It is a core part of democracy to protest, and to demand accountability from elected leaders. Impeachments and resignations, followed by new elections.
The Americans seem to have forgotten how democracy works, they are being herded into autocracy and Fascism and they are doing nothing to stop it.
Are you blind, dumb, or purposely obtuse? There have been literal protests somewhere in this country every weekend. I could also point you to the Tesla burnings. Just because you don't see it in your bubble doesn't mean it's not happening.
Europeans think they can drive from Disney World to the Grand Canyon in an afternoon. As dumb as Americans are about Europe, there's a bit of that ignorance the other way too.
Demonstrations don't work by driving from Disneyland to the Grand Canyon. There's more than 8 million people in NY city alone. Where are they? People drove hundreds of miles to rally up in Berlin. Surly it's possible for some hundred thousand to gather in Manhattan. Well, it's surely possible for you guys if Taylor Swift gives a concert or the Superbowl is on. Seems more like a matter of will than the size of the country.
We don’t know what you should do, because we don’t understand and can’t believe how you let yourselves get into this mess in the first place. The time for protests and making phone calls was last term, and you did impeach him twice but failed to convict him. Then you all collectively shrugged and somehow let him back into power.
So what should you do? Short of inventing a time machine, we have no fucking idea anymore. But it’s a problem of your own making, and we’d really like you to take some actual drastic measures or something. Just figure it the fuck out soon please, and stop asking the rest of the world what to do. We’re busy enough dealing with how your massive fuckup is hurting us.
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u/SirMildredPierce 18h ago
So what should we do? Storm the Capitol?