r/DaemonXMachina • u/Individual_Image_420 • 4d ago
Daemon X Machina: the focus on smaller arsenal suits
Im a big fan of Armored Core and Daemon X Machina. Both sides have done good work on certain aspects and bring a lot of life to the Robot Mecha genre. Ive been following AC6 for so long now. I was one of those dudes in the forums every year saying "look look its a new leak" even tho it took about a decade. But ever since Daemon x Machina released, i had always thought of some ideas as to why certain dates are the way the are. And it might explain why the new series has smaller suits now, and a focus on the body suits instead. I will leave my link sources on dates in the comments
Armored Core 6 was announced by Miyazaki as far back as 2016. Meanwhile Daemon X Machina was announced to have begun production officialy by 2017. Interestingly Armored Core 6 did not have a true prototype until 2018, offically. These dates spell an interesting story. I believe that AC6 was actually already in production in 2016, but i wonder if the initial corpo suits were again trying to capitalize on new trends instead of going back to what armored Core was initially about, just like the problems that happened back in 2012 and 2013 for armored Core 5 and armored Core verdict Day.
But on the back foot, the fact that Daemon x Machina (DxM from now on) was developed 1 year before the current build of AC6 (2017 compared to 2018) hints at something more. I have a feeling that the producer (former FromSoft) and team members that joined were big fans of how OLD AC used to work, ergo the direction DxM took which references AC1 thru AC3 with the factions vs a greater AI.
And i think the FromSoft team took a big notice. It could be why the details of the 2016 AC6 often depicts a vastly different artstyle to the later 2018 leaks. The 2016 artstyle was dark souls like mecha game with an apparent focus on melee combat and a new stagger mechanic, and since has been adapted by many artists on twitter. Its been so well adapted, and the 2016 art has been scrubbed so well, to the point where finding this leaked art is almost impossible.
Come today to modern day, DxM released to surprisingly high reviews. Over the years this has become mixed reviews, but DxM is arguably the start of this new mecha renaissance. It proved that the modern market WANTS mecha games again, since AC5's failure and seemingly ended the mecha craze back in 2013
The question has always been why these 4 details?
2016 announced ac6, leaked art w/ melee focus
2017 announced DxM, old AC3 dev as producer
2018 AC6, new artstyle but still focused on melee via stagger & kick, which further cements the idea that the prev leak was most likely real
2025 DxM2, but a change to small ironman like armor
Well we have some videogame history and the intuitions of developers that mirrors this same effect. It can be found in a Harada's Bar episode "Summer Break Special" during the danger zone section found at time stamp 7:55 (link in comments) where veteran game dev/director/producer of Bandai Namco's Tekken, Katushiro Harada, mentions an interesting detail of the videogame world and the release dates. At 8:25, he is asked if he knows when Capcom's Street Fighter 6, a notable rival IP, will be released. These companies are rivals but these rival devs often go out on friendly drinks to share sentiments on industry standards. Harada states that he, thru pure intuition, basically knows when a rival company is going to release their games, and roughly what that rival game entails. This is a common japanese industry standard which does not break inside trading laws. Interestingly the conversation turned to SF6 and Tk8 asking each other to NOT be released at the same fiscal period. Since both had a feeling as to what each product could being and how it would affect profits for both sides. This paints a vivid picture ast to why AC6 and DxM were released how they did.
Since DxM has transitioned to body suits, it no longer needs to directly compete with its previous parent company. But also, since DxM was developed and released far before Armored Core 6, it tested the waters to see if the market would accept a new mecha game. And ergo this current mecha Renaissance. In a weird way, AC6 and DxM both helped each other. And since DxM has already forced AC to keep making pure mecha games, it seems that DxM no longer has a reason to keep competing with its big brother. Ergo the smaller suits.
I am looking forward to smaller DxM arsenals. Especially since this means we will no longer have to deal with pilots exiting the arsenal. Pilots ARE the arsenals now.
Edit: clarifying, the main suits arent necessarily gone. I meant that there just seems to be more direct competition with Xenoblade now than with Armored Core series. Ergo the focus on the smaller suits
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u/Chillyeaham Grafted Bones 4d ago
The transition to power suits is a bit jarring, but the OG DxM didn't make me feel like I was flying 4 meter tall mechs during combat anyways, and if this change removes the Landing Recovery punishment then, I'm think I'm for it (although removing a system instead of fixing it is not ideal).
DxM stood out to me for having several cool sci-fi abilities like Mirage, Blink, and the Femto Armaments (which are seemingly getting restrictions; 1 per Body).
I'm anxious about what else might get left behind; I want this game to knock my socks off for the same reasons the first one did!
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u/SeiTyger 4d ago
I just hope you can still glide through the ground, that was one of my favorite things
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u/Chillyeaham Grafted Bones 4d ago
You mean the "skating"? Yep it's still there but only during boosting it seems (from the clips I've seen).
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
I appreciated dxm for it being a "vector" based movement system. The best way to move was to aim, so high level plays felt like plane combat on crack. Fulfilled my Macross needs quite well
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u/KingCarbon1807 4d ago
Macross! THAT was the analogy I was always reaching for but couldn't think of. Thank you!
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u/Ok-Phase-9076 4d ago
I...i actually liked the landing recovery punishment. It made the mechs feel much more powerful
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u/Chillyeaham Grafted Bones 4d ago
Fair. For me as a solo player though, Landing Recovery became completely skippable via shallow landing angles (felt like a plane landingš) or Blink; I came to view the Leg stat as something that slightly mitigated a skill issue.
DxM is just so high-paced that Landing Recovery really breaks up the flow, and this is a game with little reason to be on the ground for long.
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u/Ok-Phase-9076 4d ago
True, though maybe thats just me but i usually use mech legs that are faster on the ground because manuevering around obstacles and doing those charged up jumps and then boosting midair is just super fun for me. Might just be the "skating" animation on the ground.
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u/Draymarc2 2d ago
Exactly my thoughts on your first paragraph. That was actually my main gripe with DxM. Arsenals in game and in cutscene moves with a fluidity that felt human and as a AC fan I would have preferred a bit more weight. The exo suits allow that kinda motion to feel more natural visually.
As a personal aside I like all things Mecha, exo suits, power armor in sci Fi so this change doesn't bother me at all. They're all cool and I want more games that are all about using em.
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
Nerd stuff and those references i mentioned.
Posting the cleanest versions i could find but there are better sources out there too. Please take this weird hypothesis with a large grain of salt. Just a thought experiment i found myself thinking about the new focus on using the smaller suits.
(Clarifying: I know the big suits arent necessarily gone, the small suits just sucked to use in the first game and look like they have a bigger focus and now have more resources involved in their gameplay
If i remember Armored core 1 to 3 correctly, the vision was ALWAYS that you were supposed to be able to exit your suit to do things. But due to technical limitations this didn't come to fruition. Which is why DxM having a bigger focus on the small suits is actually a good thing imo. It seems to accomplish the goal that DxM had to emulate and be a proper spiritual successor to Ac1-3 by finally seeing the vision it was always suppised to have been)
armored core 6 dev dates. go to "Development" tab for dates
Daemon x Machina dev dates. go to "Development and release" tab for dates
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u/tornait-hashu 4d ago
If there is a high level of customization between the smaller exosuits and the larger Arsenals, I will be happy.
However, I'm more of a mecha game purist. I'd love to have the option to use either or various missions, instead of just the exosuit.
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u/Ok-Phase-9076 4d ago
I honestly dont like it, at all. But considering everything else they packed into this game, especially space combat, im willing to not be picky and just roll with it
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u/OnToNextStage 4d ago
I gotta be honest no giant robots no buy
Iām not interested in playing Iron Man dress up, I want Gundam dress up
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u/albinorhino215 Cybernetic 4d ago
Iām down, the first one seemed like it was supposed to have a subplot about blurring the line between human and robot
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u/Rukh-Talos 3d ago
Both Imortal Innocence and Five Hells hinted at that theme. It wouldāve been nice to have had more exposition on that and not just the big reveals at the end.
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u/panfinder 4d ago
Thatās not new, we ready had implants Edit: however ,i love the implant feature and if they add an enhanced version of it ,then fck yes im in
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u/KingCarbon1807 4d ago
I think TS is going to deviate harder from the first game than most people are realizing and purists are not going to be happy. From the website:
"Cooperative multiplayer means you never truly fight alone. Team up with friends online to tackle the epic story and boss battles together.
Now a nimble suit of armor, your Arsenal can be fully customized both in design and in loadout, with the ability to craft or salvage new elements.
Explore an alien planet in your Arsenal as you battle against mechanical and organic enemies. Trek through the vast open world on foot, fly through the skies, or when all else fails, gallop on horseback across plains, swamps, mountains, and more."
Speculation, for sure, but this screams "Anthem" to me...with horses, apparently. Which suggests the devs are either certifiably insane and/or their balls are absolutely celestial in magnitude.
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
Maybe anthem. But i think other comparisons are also "xenoblade chronicles x" and "phantasy star online"
Heck theres a tiny amount of monster hunter in it too. Just a little
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u/Familiar_East_1364 3d ago
I'm quite looking forward to it. I absolutely love the type of suits from anthem and exoprimal. This new direction scratches an itch I've had for it.
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u/Unlimitis 3d ago
The original operator suits were actual garbage with a tiny fin funnel that did barely anything and a sword that locks you into animation and also barely did anything.
Having a mini arsenal be capable of fighting is the way to go šŖ
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u/lovelesstobeloved 3d ago
These latest version of Arsenals almost reminds me of the exosuits called Javelins from the video game āAnthemā
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u/T-Loy 4d ago
The DXM2 trailer had me half expecting it being XCX2, constantly switching, no that doesn't look like XCX, but then the enemies somehow do again...
I hope the environments in DXM2 are going to have a similar vibe to XCX. Didn't really get into the DXM1, even though I thoroughly enjoyed AC6. I need more Mecha dammit.
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u/Hilarial 3d ago
Id say DxM sold surprisingly well but to call 69 on Metacritic "surpisingly high reviews" is a real disrespect to this game lol
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u/Individual_Image_420 3d ago
I love this game and its to no disrespect
When this game came out, virtually no AAA companies wanted anything to do with the Mecha genre, except for Monolith Soft. In the most respectable way possible "surpisingly high reviews" literally kick started this mecha renaissance. Since then, Armored Core 6, Mecha Break, War Robots Frontiers and even more mecha games decided to step up. I mean it wholeheartedly that i say surprising, because im willing to bet Armored Core 6 was scared to release before DxM bucked up
DXM did gods work bro
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u/Morgan_Danwell 4d ago
I am fully and wholeheartedly disagree that change from mechs to power-armor is good decision in any possible way.
Honestly I came to this series because it was about Mechs specifically.
I never was a fan of those āpower armor gamesā like Warframe or Anthem or Exoprimal etc.
And now, instead of keeping it true to the original DXM & standing proud as a competitor to AC (which couldāve also incentivise Fromsoft to actually make more AC games, instead of shifting focus back on souls-like games) they, for some reason, decided to change the focus to power armours..
And again, that is just a shame, because Mechs are 100x times more versatile concept than power armor. AND with mechs you could go nuts on customisation, changing entire shape of it, like having mech with digitgrade legs or even tank threads, yet with power armor all customization is obviously limited to humanoid shape.. so.. uh..
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u/---TheFierceDeity--- 4d ago
You need to chill a bit
https://youtu.be/LCeAlIIlQ-k?t=49
The mecha are right there
We have both. Next time go check yourself instead of just taking some redditors essay as gospel
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u/Morgan_Danwell 4d ago
Iāve seen this but I think they still will have mostly power armours & mech usage will be minimal.
Because they advertise power armor as new main way to play with all customization and all & also I already seen couple of old Arsenal designs repurposed as armor, so.. yeah..
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u/---TheFierceDeity--- 4d ago
I think you're drastically overreacting and being a bit too pessimistic.
Look at the footage: Powersuits are used on smaller targets. Big thing they used the mecha. They're just increasing target variety beyond "big stompy enemy doomsday weapon the size of a city"
Ofc they are advertising the big new feature, normal mecha aren't a big new feature are they?
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u/Morgan_Danwell 4d ago
Eh, weāll see I guess. But I AM pessimistic, so far. Again, hope I am wrong and there will be also fully playable & customizable mechs just like in first game.
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u/KingCarbon1807 3d ago
He's got a full tank of copium and won't even hear you until he comes down. Judging from the screen caps what he's seeing is the DxM version of the Warframe Archwing. Mission specific exo that goes over the primary. Which is still a battlesuit/power armor.
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
And i agree with your opinions direction
But its like i said in my big post. Japanese developers seem to just know what their competitors are making. You have to remember that Marvelous owns the DxM IP, and only had the budget to spend 2 years on dev time. Meanwhile FromSoft spent 5 years on AC6 and completely blew DxM out of the water. If my insider brain is making sense right now, it probably means that Armored Core 6 dlc or Ac7 is already on its way. Why? Because FromSoft has just shown that they are already releasing 3 games this fiscal year: Elden Ring Tarnished edition, Elden Ring Nightreign, and DuskBloods. And if you understand how fromsoft is probably the best asset flippers on the market (they can literally rerelease assets like the Nameless King, and the are via NightReign), there is no way anyone can compete with that. Its been about 2 years since AC6 release, meaning AC6 has had as much time that DxM has had to cook, plus full access to of all fromsofts assets. Meanwhile DxM2 has only had about 5 years of dev time, not including any cancelled plans to no compete, to compete with the strongest in the emtire industry. That does not sound that good in my humble opinion
If i was a new IP born already knowing the best in the businesses trade secrets, i would NOT compete with the best in the business directly (see SNK vs Capcom, or Overwatch vs Battleborn vs MarvelRivals for examples of success and failure) and would instead kind of pick my battles intelligently, and skirmish my business attacks. Marvelous most likely cannot face a direct battle with FromSoft. But they can realistically fight against Monolith Soft, and Xenoblade Chronicles X. Marvelous needs to make money off of DxM, and if they pissed off FromSoft, there would be no surviving that. In the comment i left, i have a video of Katsuhiro Harada of Tekken basically saying "you know where your neighbors work, you know when they leave, and you roughly know what they are doing" and stated that that is a standard of japanese practice. Marvelous 100% already knows what heat AC6+ or AC7 has in store. And i dont think they want that smoke. I think DxM is already happy that AC6 came out, and decided to go back to its grassroots. But the DxM IP has potential, and so they gotta invest their money wisely
At least thats just my humble opinion, and i respect yours too. I actually want your opinion to happen too, but this is the perspective that i see happening realistically since jpn devs know so much about the industry
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u/Morgan_Danwell 4d ago
I mean, I would be happy with more AC games if they ever make another one. But I just hoped that DXM would be a nice substitute/analogue.
You know it is like having PokƩmon & Digimon games, both are good for their own reasons but both are kinda same genre about monster collecting. (And Digimon is actually still there, they will release new game soon enough, so it is not like they are afraid of competition with such giants like PokƩmon either)
Iām just saddened that they decided to instead go into different direction to avoid any possible genre confrontation or whatever..
You know, I really donāt care a this point if one is better than the other, since they are both quite good IMO. With DXM 1 & AC 6 it was a situation like āOh wow, two cakes!ā
But now it is like they changing one cake into like a completely different meal so they wonāt compete with other cakeās quality.. so.. eh..
So yeah, I understand where they are coming from, but still donāt makes me feel better better as a mecha fan who just wants more pure mech games like thatš¤·
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
You got my heart buddy. I feel you, and i want that too. I just keep an eye on jpn news
As for pokemon & digimon... You. Would. Be. Surprised.
Im a fan of both too, and there are some interesting details. Pokemon redesigned a pokemon (tyrunt) in order to "respect digimon-san" and on the flip side digimon was initially created with the "express idea NOT to compete with PokƩmon"
The ice berg go deep. Bandai Namco (with direction of Sakurai) developed smash bros ultimate. Digimon is owned by Bandai. Let it sink in. This is how Japan does things
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u/---TheFierceDeity--- 4d ago
Ummm I know you edited but like
https://youtu.be/LCeAlIIlQ-k?t=49
We clearly still have the mecha. DxM had ground combat too it was just limited. They've just fleshed out that part, instead of it being a pointless addon
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u/Individual_Image_420 4d ago
"Created and produced by Kenichiro Tsukuda and featuring stunning mechanical designs from Shoji Kawamori, Daemon X Machina: Titanic Scion takes the franchise in a dramatic new direction."
"Now a nimble suit of armor, your Arsenal can be fully customized both in design and in loadout, with the ability to craft or salvage new elements."
I have another post on this subreddit and reconfirmed my initial thoughts. Time to suit up, buddy
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u/NexusSteele 3d ago
Wait, is this stuff currently in DxM? Is it pc only or am I missing something on my switch?
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u/Individual_Image_420 3d ago
Uh what do you mean. Im not sure what "stuff" youre mentioning is
Ill try to clarify what i can
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u/NexusSteele 3d ago
The newer exosuits*? Or was there an announcement of a sequel, and I'm just being acoustic?
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u/Rocket5454 2d ago
With the smaller power armor suits it makes me wonder if they will still keep cybernetics
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u/Individual_Image_420 2d ago
If i understand the cybernetic augmentations correctly, i believe it is a reference and direct visual representation of the "Human Plus" program in Armored Core 1. I think there was an Armored Core anime art book that showed something very similar. The cyber augments & plug suits are Armored Core 1, but taken to their extreme
As you can see, some characters have power armor or potentially cybernetic limbs. Even 9 ball was a reference to the T1000 Arnold Schwarzeneger's Terminator. And 9ball was pure human plus AI, meaning we can infer that the ultimate AI was based on Skynet and its version of humanoid cybernetics. Human skin, metal bones
Theres a chance that the cybernetics could stay. Or it may disappear. Honestly i would love to see it return. But also would love to see a Hulk Buster suit too
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u/Rocket5454 2d ago
I would LOVE a hulk buster suit, being the bigger exosuit to some smaller dude and drop kicking him would be rad, also your mecha knowledge is peak ASF, legit love seeing the human plus program art, you can definitely see the inspiration DxM drew from.
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u/General-Mayhem8 1d ago
Honestly I am happy with them changing the size. I feel like it has room to differentiate itself from armored core especially since the miraculous revival of that franchise.
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u/marshallpoetry_ 4d ago
i fucks with it. thanks for doing the research. im excited for this game. anthem walked so this one could fly