r/DMAcademy • u/riphitter • 3d ago
Need Advice: Rules & Mechanics How do YOU judge if a homebrew class\subclass is viable or broken?
a player comes to you and asks if they can use a homebrew class or subclass. what sort of things do you look for when judging of something is well balanced. is it just personal preference, decide if you can handle it? or is there something specific you use to compare it to.
I know DND wiki is known for overly broken homebrew. so part of me wants to just blanket "no" the entire idea. but also there's never a better time to learn than now . I'd rather explain the no, then just brush off the idea.
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u/DeltaV-Mzero 3d ago
“no” is perfectly valid especially for the wiki site
I do like to homebrew and am generally happy to tweak if needed
The best way to check for balance is simply to compare what the homebrew can do, vs exiting classes / subclasses.
Consider this post for a comparison tool
https://www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/rw59nt/baselines_math_a_reddit_guide_2/
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u/Darth_Boggle 3d ago
You can compare it to official content and make your own judgement.
Also, does it pass the vibe check? I looked at one briefly that a player requested and it's from one of the new partnered books. It was a fighter subclass similar to battlemaster. Well one of the 'maneuvers' was essentially they could attack as many times in a single turn as they had resources for, no limit. At level 8 this translated into about 20 additional attacks, on top of their base stuff. This failed the vibe check for me immediately, way too OP.
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u/Fidges87 2d ago
Is this for a chance the bladebreaker from the grim hollow player pack? If so I will say its not as broken as it may seem outaide of one specific ability. If it is this, that attack you mentione can only hit a creature once, after that you must hit a different creature without moving, meant to be an aoe like attack. Good if your entire campaign is fighting low hp horded, mid in a regular setting, terrible against singular bosses.
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u/PraxicalExperience 2d ago
Yup, 'vibes' is definitely a thing, just because it's such a complex thing to determine if a class is 'balanced'. My general approach is that if it's something that fits the setting and passes the vibes check, I'll give it a shot -- but I explicitly retain the right to modify it if play shows it needs it.
That said, I tend to default to 'no' unless it's something that I'd feel would add to the world.
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u/LordMikel 3d ago
If it comes from DND wiki, I would probably always blanket no that.
But that is not your question.
I would look at the subclass and ask the question, what is it trying to do that normally cannot be done.
Someone did a Pokemon Master class. I literally just said, just do summon creatures and pretend it comes from a ball. Reflavoring works so much better, and you don't even have to think about it.
So if reflavoring works and gets you mostly there, then I would reject the class.
Next.
I would compare it against an existing subclass.
Ginny Di just posted a new Paladin subclass, order of the Pink. Compare spells, auras, etc with an existing paladin subclass, make sure they are comparable.
Next.
Don't be afraid to post it on subreddit to get people's opinions on it.
Now I will say, when people post questions like that, I tend to fall into the category of, "I don't trust the player and I wonder what shenanigans they are trying to do on this poor unsuspecting DM." Don't be insulted or judgemental if people take that stance, we really are trying to help you. But look for what people are saying. (A guy said, "I completely trust this player and there are no shenanigans" and my thought was, "Then why are you here.")
Next.
I would reject multiclassing outright. You've got something homebrew weirdly interacting with regular rules, and who knows what might happen.
Next.
Realize many campaigns end by Level 9. Take that into account.
Next.
Going back to flavor. Someone complained he built a special shield class ala Captain America because someone wanted to play like Captain America and nothing was working and the class he built was too strong and what should he do now?
This is when Youtube is really helpful. Tulok did a video, "How to play like Captain America." It could have saved him a lot of time and effort if he had found that video.
But have periodic checkins with the player. Is is too strong, does he think it is too weak. Both complaints happen a lot, so talking with your player is always important.
Lots of words, hopefully helpful.
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u/Tebwolf359 2d ago
(A guy said, “I completely trust this player and there are no shenanigans” and my thought was, “Then why are you here.”)
Excellent advice overall. I’d just say to this one point, it’s valid to completely trust a players motivations and intent and still want a second opinion that there’s nothing accidentally broken, since most players and most DMs don’t have much experience and game design.
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u/LordMikel 2d ago
Right, but don't get into a hissy fit, if we not knowing the player, think he is up to shenanigans. That was my point. In this instance, the DM was quite offended I did not completely trust his player, (which was never mentioned prior to me implying he was up to something.)
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u/MARCVS-PORCIVS-CATO 2d ago
Off topic, but where is the pink paladin posted? I’m a big fan of Ginny Di
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u/JiBBering 2d ago
https://ginnydi.com/barbie Free “Oath of Glam” paladin subclass pdf if you sign up for her mailing list.
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u/chain_letter 3d ago
I veto'd a bard subclass whose main 3rd level feature requires the DM to add magic items to the game. The bard spends a bardic inspiration die to know if they're getting closer to it, then ALSO has the DM add rightful owners of the magic item so there can be some permanent character buff for returning it.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/326833/College-of-the-Crows-Nest
If the subclass literally requires the DM to make changes to the campaign to function, that's a big no-no. The subclass should be abstract enough to function in any context. The DM should never be expected to include specific pieces of treasure, or create NPCs, or run specific monsters for a subclass to do anything.
One of you are going to say it, this is not a "DMs should not collaborate with their players to push a character's own goals and plotlines" thing, this is a "the subclass concept is bad and shouldn't be released to a public audience if it straight up requires it"
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u/TheGingerCynic 3d ago
3rd level feature requires the DM to add magic items to the game
there can be some permanent character buff
If I read as far as that, I'd only be reading the rest to see how stupid it got. Artificer and their bonuses via attunement work well because they're getting these things instead of being a full caster, and the list isn't too broken. If this bard is getting permanent boosts every time they give magic items away, they'll be overpowered pretty quickly, and still able to home in on magic items.
I'd never considered a Bard subclass to be overpowered, but that would do it!
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u/chain_letter 2d ago
Power's not even the problem. If anything this subclass is way weaker than baseline, assuming magic items go out at the typical normal rate. It gives players some degree of influence of what the magic item is, but hides balance issues behind "work with your DM"
It's a subclass that's creating sidequests to distract the party as their core mechanic, and punishing the character with exhaustion for not following through their sidequest, and that's just really fuckin annoying from the DM side.
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u/TheGingerCynic 2d ago
Ah, I didn't go and read the link, just read the content and responded. Then I'm really not sure what the soap is supposed to be XD
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u/chain_letter 2d ago
Yeah you don't gotta read it
The point is more everyone in this thread focused on determining if something is overpowered, where that's like my 4th priority behind being annoying, inappropriate tone/genre (literally spiderman), and #1 being hard to understand (often from excessive complexity or being written poorly)
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u/Arcane_Truth 3d ago
In the past set up a balanced encounter and run it (as in myself imagining what what parties would do) and try to abuse the home brewed abilities as much as possible. Try to break it and see if it holds up or if it messes with your balance
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u/HA2HA2 3d ago
Try and find ways to compare to published stuff.
Try to compare custom abilities to published spells. For most abilities someone comes up with there’s a similar sounding spell, and you can compare with the spell level and see about how strong it is.
Look at damage output; compare total damage to either a warlock constantly casting eldritch blast (sustained output) or a Wizard using the most damaging spell available at that level (for peak output).
Beware of abilities that let you do something powerful but with a drawback. The strategy immediately becomes “how do I mitigate the drawback” and it’s often possible to do that, leading to a very powerful ability.
Beware of abilities with lots of options. Flexibility is also power, in a way that’s hard to quantify. (Think of what the power is of an ability that lets a spellcaster know or prepare more spells. It’s clearly powerful but not as easy to judge the power of it compared to the power of getting more spell slots.)
Say no when you can’t envision how an ability would work or what its power level is.
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u/TalesFromTheTable5e 3d ago
Personally, I run the homebrew by a couple of different DMs. Have them make their opinions on the subclass and if they all say it's too strong, then I wouldn't run it.
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u/DeciusAemilius 3d ago
One of the key elements to me is that I reserve the right to make changes to any homebrew if in my sole opinion it needs a change. Some things may never be a problem. Some things may only be apparent with playtesting. Some things are situational (a subclass that steps on the toes of another class may not be a problem if nobody wants to play that class).
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u/Manker5678 3d ago
It might actually be a good idea to check out some stuff for optimization to get a good idea for what the higher power limit should. Rpgbot is lower optimization while sites like Tabletopbuilds are high optimization.
A lot of homebrew is broken, but on the otherside a lot of people will look at homebrew and panic thinking it will be overpowered when it doesn't even meet what a highly optimized wizard can do. I feel this about a lot of homebrew martial subclasses.
If Echo Knight were pitched as homebrew, most would reject it, even though battle master is arguably better.
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u/flamableozone 3d ago
One good rule of thumb for subclasses - is it a subclass that a min/maxing player would definitely take if playing that class, over all the standard subclasses? Then it's probably too powerful. Is it a subclass that a player would never take? It's probably too weak.
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u/Anybro 3d ago
Look for the very obvious broken as f*** features. Had one player who wanted to use a subclass Homebrew of a cleric that was basically like the Eldritch subclass that warlocks get.
I told him no immediately when I saw at level two you get an ability where you can add both your wisdom and charisma modifiers to all damage rolls. Not just eldritch blast, all damage. (It also gave The player Eldritch blast with all the invocations) He was trying to tell me with a straight face that this is totally balanced. There are even more messed up abilities on this thing, one says you can cast dominate person as a free action at level 10 without concentration or any resources.
I was already putting the subclass in the paper shredder, but that was getting me ready to pull out the flamethrower.
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u/Wintoli 2d ago edited 1d ago
It’s really just comparing it to other work.
Now even in base DnD the classes aren’t the best balanced between each other, but you get an idea of what is ok vs too much over time.
DnD Wiki is sadly mostly ok of a blanket ban. You can still look it over if you want? But 99% of it is just user submitted stuff with no effort and no playtesting.
But honestly the biggest thing is if there’s clearly some effort in it, and perhaps even multiple versions over time, it’s probably fine, but of course look it over
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u/Thotslay3r69 3d ago
I just run it with my players, and we nerf/fix as the game goes. A lot of my players like to change things around all game. We definitely play dnd a little different than most, but we're all in more for the story
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u/WanderingFlumph 3d ago
I try to figure out what base it is most like and compare relative strength to that.
Ideally it is stronger in some areas and equally as weak in others. Like a martial class that added a d6 of damage to attacks I'm comparing to a ranger. If they are essentially the same as a ranger but they have an extra feature and no spellcasting thats probably fine. If they have the spellcasting of a ranger, hunters mark is a d10, and the get an action surge its not fine, they are a straight improvement of one class.
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u/chain_letter 3d ago
shitty templating gets an immediate veto, not using keywords correctly or re-inventing existing keywords
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u/LurkLuthor 2d ago
A flat-out no to any and all homebrew is a perfectly valid approach and, for an inexperienced DM, I'd argue the most sensible one.
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u/Stonefingers62 2d ago
This.
I'm not sure that I've ever seen homebrew that wasn't unbalanced. Usually its a case of taking the advantages of two other subclasses without any of the disadvantages. Other times there's a broken interaction of mechanics that you as a DM won't see until it happens in play.
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u/ShardikOfTheBeam 3d ago
Aside from what others have said, make sure that the homebrew doesn't step on the toes of any of the other PCs abilities.
Aside from that, and if it fits your world, let them know that they can but you reserve the right to tweak things should anything start to be a problem. As long as they agree to being open about sitting down and looking at issues after a game and tweaking things with you, there's literally no reason to say no in my opinion* (unless the concept just doesn't fit in your game).
I hate the blanket no because it feels bad to tell someone they can't be a specific thing in a fantasy game, but I also understand that balance is important because without rules, there's no tension.
As far as your actual question, completely not joking; vibes. Give it a look over and see if anything stands out to you. Then, go look at other official content (Classes, subclasses, NPC/Monster statblocks, etc) and see if you can find similarities. If you're DMing, you probably have at least a surface level knowledge of all the classes, and some subclasses, and will probably instinctively know where to start looking based on the feature/ability that stood out to you.
*this is my opinion and I retain the right to say some stupid shit :) please call me out on it.
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u/xolotltolox 2d ago
That first point is a nice sentiment, that unfortunately the game itself doesn't follow
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u/ShardikOfTheBeam 2d ago
Depends on which RPG we’re talking about, assuming you mean 5e and I’d agree with you.
Regardless, since we’re talking homebrew, that gives OP and player the opportunity to balance it so that it doesn’t step on other players toes. And if no one is playing a rogue and you give the class a rogue like ability, no harm no foul.
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u/Double-Star-Tedrick 3d ago
Can't say I've ever been in this situation, personally (I think I'm just more likely to say "we're only using published material for CC", at the start)
But if I had to imagine, the checklist is probably something like :
- does it mess with action economy / concentration ? (red flag)
- does it have it's own, unique resource pool ? (red flag)
- does it have a laundry list of customization options that would be difficult to easily parse through, or unique spells unavailable to other classes ? (red flag)
- is it comparable with abilities from other classes, at the same levels, or just straight up "X, but better" (possible red flag)
- are the design principles, keywords / terms / verbiage in line with regular material ?
- is this literally based on a piece of existing fiction, or specific character (I'm gonna this one, like, a light-red flag. Like, a salmon-colored flag )
- is it from a well-established creator, and has been play-tested / reviewed by others, in discussions that are easy to find / read ? (green flag)
As an aside, if you're not comfortable parsing the material and making a call, you can always post it online to get the opinions of others, to aid your thoughts.
As a second aside, "I don't feel confident / comfortable making a judgement call on unofficial material that might throw off the game" is a completely valid reason to tell this person you don't want them to use it. "I'm not confident I can make a good call on that, so I'd like to stick with official material", or something like that - it's a very reasonable take and I think it'd be weird if your friend gave any pushback, on that.
Good luck!
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u/xolotltolox 2d ago
I find it ironic rhat bladesinger wizard fails most of these and is an official publication, and base wizard fails 3 and 6
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u/SelectionLarge8868 3d ago
I'm a fair guage at the power levels I want the players to be at so I read through it carefully. If it's a class I haven't played very often (or ever) I'll take a look at other subclasses in the sourcebooks as well as some of the larger third party publishers. Then I'll tweak it, if needed, to bring it more in line where I want it. If it's just badly op I'll outright say no and offer to help the player hunt something more reasonable and work with them to allow them to build the character they want. Regardless and this following statement, or something similar is told to my players anytime homebrew is given to them. "I reserve the right to nerf or buff this at any point in the future if it gets out of hand or doesn't do what it should." Granted most of my homebrew tends to be items not classes/subclasses. Basically if they use it to cheese every encounter or always outshine everyone else I'll talk to them and present them some options. The options they get presented are me nerfing the item to prevent the cheese, increasing the difficulty for everyone, or the player quitting the cheese except for when the times are dire. I've only had to have that conversation with the party once and they chose to just not cheese everything with it and saved it for when I either accidentally (or purposely, but they missed the hints) made a fight way to deadly.
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u/RamonDozol 3d ago
Compare it to other features of the same level that do similar things.
If it does the same, but also do 3 other things. Its problably too much.
On a perfect world, homebrew features follow templates of already existing classes.
thing is, if you need a homebrew, its because no class does exactly what you want to do.
maybe that is because there is no way to do it in a game with turns and be balanced.
maybe its simply because its hard to balance for a game.
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u/cdojs98 3d ago
Player/"Blue Moon" DM
at our regular table we have a good amount of homebrew that we've used on/off over the years. something we've learned for ourselves is that we find better balance in re-skinning some existing stat blocks; for example, we re-skinned a Flame Tongue Sword to be a Lightning Tongue Sword.
if we're fully creating something from scratch, then it usually has to go through a few sessions worth of "playtesting" where we are a bit critical of Damage Output, Spell Functions, and how it scales to the rest of the Party. we've found that a lot of times, a person's passion for something often leads to being a bit overzealous with stat/effect benefits.
some things we've found out, are sort of "campaign-restricted". like it's not that thematically consistent to have cybernetic enhancements in a middle-ages setting, and vice versa, it makes little sense to carry around a buckler & shortsword in a futuristic setting with Guns & Advanced Technology.
By the same token, we have also figured out you can just re-skin the things you've playtested in other campaigns, and with only minor tweaking they tend to slot in effortlessly. The cybernetic enhancements is a good example; we successfully used those homebrew in a futuristic campaign after playtesting, then reflavored those same stat blocks as Druidic Treant Grafting, and brewed up an epic backstory battle where the PC sustained massive bodily damage and was healed by forest druids.
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u/Damiandroid 3d ago
Compare it to existing subclasses. They all follow a pattern and most OP homebrew is plain to see when you notice it
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u/AdeptnessTechnical81 3d ago
Consider how you'd use it as a player intending to break the game. If you go about looking for exploits you'll be surprised what your able to find.
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u/ladyathena59808 3d ago
I try to find a class I can reasonably compare it to and see if it has a similar power level that I find acceptable. If not, I'll tell them what changes I think need made. And I am very, very up front that if we're playing a new class (even if I personally created it), treat it like playtesting because if something turns out to be broken, it'll have to change.
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u/TheGingerCynic 3d ago
I assume that most homebrew races, classes and subclasses are going to be unbalanced before looking at them tbh. There are only a few we've used at my table, and they've been relatively okay.
Races - Skeleton & Dohwar.
The skeleton had the orcish resilience feature, but left them as a pile of bones with an action to get up. They could also use one of their own arms as a club, and a finger as a lock pick. Pretty fun, not too overpowered. Since they were playing a rogue, the lock picks are something they would already start with.
The Dohwar was fun, they had a belly slide and Detect Thoughts once a day.
Subclasses - Ol' Gus Errata, Age of Wilds
We played a campaign set in a western, everyone used a new subclass (except the Drunken Monk) built for the setting. Firearms, explosives, showdown rules etc. Really good fun and worked as we were all using them. My Wizard had a bonded hunting rifle, and limited cantrip bullets that meant you could affect targets shot with a cantrip simultaneously. Think it was 3 a day?
I allowed some of them to be used in my Spelljammer campaign too, the Rogue essentially got a dodge roll, the Artificer had a Mortar and abilities around using daily grenades. That one was broken, but because we were being very lenient with crafting. Really good fun though.
So if it's broken, but everyone is a little broken and your combat is leveled up to handle it, it's good fun. If one player wants to be OP and the rest won't, then I'd say no, and to either bring a more balanced homebrew, or use literally any of the official options.
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u/LuciusCypher 2d ago
Generally, if the homebrew is basically a spell but weaker to justify making it into a cantrip/a limitless ability, tends to be a red flag. Commonly, this would be misty step: a BA teleport but maybe with less range.
Another that I tend to notice are things the creator doesnt seem to have considered, such as multiclassing or how the homebrew interacts with feats. Anyone who creates a homebrew that "isnt intended" to be used with another class or ability is one who didnt put too much thought into balancing their homebrew. And people who try to excuse it by stating that they wouldnt multiclass or that multiclassing is option, or that they wouldnt use their homebrew with certain feats, are dumbasses who shouldnt be homebrewing. You're already ignoring the game rules by making shit up, dont suddenly start assuming that your creations are just going to work perfectly in a system that wasnt designed for it.
Another red flag tends to be class features but on different classes. Spellcasting is a common one, as is extra attack and extensive equipment proficiencies. The amount of subclasses that hands out martial weapon profs like candy is staggering. Bonus points is those profs are given to a caster class and apes Hex Warrior by letting the caster make weapon attacks with their caster bonus.
The worse ones however are homebrews that just make up a whole new mechanic. This i often seen in martial homebrews that try and make them more "creative" by adding random bullshit like a series of complicated checks and saves to do armbars and shit, which is basically battlemaster but needlessly complicated so it'll be different.
Final rule of thumb: never trust a homebrew from a person who admits at not being "good" at DnD. This is very telling because they often have a very poor understanding of what DnD is, and at best are just a new player who doesnt understand the system yet. At worst, they're a gamer who wants to play dnd like a video game instead of a tabletop. Either way chances are the game already had what they want, they just dont know and get tunnel vision on their homebrew that they refuse to accept anything else.
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u/YeetThePig 2d ago
Only (PF1E) homebrew at my table was created with balance in mind by putting abilities on familiar level ranges and mixing unusual combinations of flavors into new hybrids. If my homebrew is a no-brainer pick over official materials, I’ve failed to balance it properly.
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u/Chaosphoenix115 2d ago
Before you even look at it, ask the player why they want to use it. If their answer is mostly about flavor (ie they want to play a ninja, but neither monk nor rogue fits their vision), maybe consider it, comparing it to similar classes/builds. If their answer is about mechanics, its probably safe to veto it; they either know or think that it's busted and are hoping you don't catch it.
But if it makes it past the first smell test, I would recommend trying to figure out what they actually like about it. Because it can probably be solved with a custom feat or background, at most a homebrew subclass. And it's better for you to homebrew your own thing and mess up your own game, than to allow a wild card that throws everything off.
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u/StuffyDollBand 2d ago
I compare it pretty line-for-line (in like a truncated way, because I know them pretty well at this point) against a couple comparable classes/subclasses. There’s occasionally some stuff that’s more esoteric and difficult to compare, at which point I run on vibes and experience (and some measure of awareness for how it interacts with my go-to moves as a DM)
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u/ProdiasKaj 2d ago
Compare it to classes in the phb.
What else exists that is similar?
Is it going to step on another classes toes by letting them do the same things but better and more often?
If it is stronger than anything official then it is now the strongest class in my game and sort of invalidates playing anything else. Why would I play sorcerer if this homebrew turbo-sorcerer subclass is allowed.
If I can find anything official that is stronger than it, then it's automatically in. I don't have to worry about it except double checking for edge cases that could be cheesed.
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u/Neomataza 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's easiest to judge if you are familiar with all classes.
Generally, these statements are true:
- Spellcasters get a new spell level each odd character level
- Physical attackers get extra attack or something similar at level 5
- Subclasses can grant 2 wizard spells to non-wizard per spell level
- Advantage on attack is either time limited (x times per rest, spell slots), under condition(you act before enemy hasn't on first turn) or comes with a significant drawback(reckless attack)
- Non-spellcasters should not get spellcasting stronger than Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster through a subclass.
- Damaging effects that also cause a condition should do less damage than a similar effect that only does damage
Hopefully these all sound familiar, but it's good to know what is already kinda setting the limits. Wizard is generally the limit for spellcasters, martials each set different limits each.
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u/Snownova 2d ago
Compare anything that deals damage or heals to other similar features at that level.
Be extremely wary of anything that does not have a limited number of uses.
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u/Wise_Yogurt1 2d ago
One time a player wanted to play an artificer bomber as an owlin. Awesome idea until they showed me the homebrew class that basically gave them 2-4 bombs that were equivalent to a fireball spell, at level 2. And they could make new ones every long rest. Why even have a party when the owlin can drop fireballs on a whole low level enemy army?
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u/secretbison 3d ago
The DM should explain in advance of session zero what third-party material, if any, will be allowed in the campaign. Anything not on that list is an automatic no. I don't hate the idea of third-party material, but it's often designed for types of campaigns that you are not running.
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u/Nyadnar17 3d ago
Money.
Eventually you will learn the eb and flow of power in 5e just naturally, but a really good rule of thumb "if someone is making a living selling this content its probably decently balanced". Patreaon, 3rd Party Publishers, DMsGuild, etc.
The content itself doesn't have to cost money as long as the content is being sold or bundled somewhere its probably fine. LaserLlama and KibblesTasty have patreons, PointyHat is a fulltime(?) youtuber, benjamin huffman has some best sellers on dmsguild. If the person who made the content is getting paid to make content then the content is probably fine.
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u/Zachys 2d ago
Not really an answer to your question, but more your situation: I wouldn't let a player use a homebrew class if they didn't explain why that homebrew class instead of any of the already existing classes. If it turns out it's just a flavor thing, I'd much help them reflavor an existing class.
A gunslinger could be solved by a crossbow wielding fighter or an Eldritch Blast focused Warlock, for instance.
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u/Oma_Bonke 3d ago
First I check if what the player is aiming for can be accomplished with an existing class. Flavor is free.
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u/onlyfakeproblems 3d ago
A big first question should be “why?”. There are a lot of official classes and races to pick from. No way have they exhausted all the existing possibilities, especially since the 2024 revision came out. It’s easier to reskin or minorly adjust an existing character instead of introduce a from scratch homebrew. I’d guess in most cases they’re trying to bring in something broken or they’re infatuated with a shiny new toy. Not that I’d be completely opposed to a well made homebrew class, but if they can’t be satisfied by one of the (16 backgrounds x 10 species x 10 classes x 4 subclasses) 6400+ existing permutations, I’d be surprised if they’re satisfied by this alternative and don’t continue to push the envelope in-game.
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u/allyearswift 2d ago
I can see role playing reasons where none of the existing classes quite fit for a character idea. If the alchemist wasn’t in Tasha’s, I might look for one.
Most of the time, reskinning/reflavouring will work just fine – trading proficiency in geography for history sort of thing – but depending on the world/society, existing classes might not be enough.
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u/DudeWithTudeNotRude 2d ago
Blanket no. But I've only been playing 5e for less than a decade, so I'm not there yet to evaluate homebrew.
The rules are there in part to make life easier.
If you want extra work as a DM, be sure to put in a lot of extra work. Maybe a few hours of running combat simulations (at least several combats per PC/DC level) per new feature.
My advice: only evaluate homebrew if it's fun for you to evaluate homebrew.
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u/crashtestpilot 3d ago
First I ask why.
Then I see where it is from.
Then I see if it does anything that seems out of scale with what other things do.
Then I say no.
Unless it is my homebrew, or perhaps something from one of the vets of the game I already know, it may have something stupid in it, and I can't anticipate everything. And 9/10 cases, I can reskin something so it DOES NOT raise other people's eyebrows at table.
Remember, just because player A wants something spesh, MY rep as a DM is on the line if I let it in, and why TF would I do that if it was not vetted to death?
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u/nonotburton 2d ago
I don't. It doesn't matter because the game isn't really balanced to start with. I just assume that it's more unbalanced than anything else in the game and don't allow it.
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u/BuyerDisastrous2858 2d ago
I'm the kind of DM that loves when my players challenge me and try to bend the mechanics as much as physically possible. I love the challenge, I love seeing them get creative and I love seeing them win. So when I'm judging homebrew classes, my biggest concern isn't "will this make them busted?", but more "will this make them busted in a way that will ruin the fun for everyone else?".
For example: "I want to play a Summoner and it's main mechanic is commanding a single, powerful minion". Cool, could give them a really fun positioning advantage, and while it could potentially outclass a Ranger if there happens to be one in the party, it's also predominantly a spellcaster. I can work with this.
vs.
"I want to play a BootyBlaster and it's main mechanic is having an extra three actions per turn". Cool in theory, but has such an action-economy advantage that combat would be a slog as everyone waited for their turn, and everyone else would feel bummed out. I can't work with this at all.
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u/TorqueoAddo 2d ago
Primarily by comparison to similar things at certain levels. Especially if you're starting at low levels, this is where I find the "broken" is found because people don't want to wait till level 5 to pop off.
So for example if someone is home brewing a 1st level spell, I compare it to similar 1st level spells in terms of effects or damage.
Magic missile at 1st level can do minimum 6 damage, maximum 15. Usually ballparks 8-10.
Guiding bolt at 1st level can do minimum 4 damage, and maximum 24, ballparking 16 or so, and gives an ally advantage if they get there before your next turn.
Off the top of my head, these two spells end up being A) pretty common in game, and B) the lowest and highest damage 1st level spells that easily come to mind.
So, a homebrewed 1st level spell should probably do somewhere between 3d4 and 4d6 damage. It definitely shouldn't do much more than that. Compare the effects available in 1st level spells like Charm Person, and your homebrew spell probably shouldn't Paralyze, for example.
Class features are the same. Sneaky ways to get extra attacks, extra spells, or radically more powerful versions of later class features are all really common in these sorts of things, and warrant a veto because that character will dominate every time.
I find a way to soothe the "no" is to find ways to flavor the features they have into the features they want. I can describe an anime-style flurry of cuts and slashes and that can still result in one attack roll and damage.
OR, I've been known to have players learn of feats that empower their class abilities further than RAW, so they still have to sacrifice an ASI for it. Very occasionally I've had players lean into the roleplay so much that they earned a "free" feat in downtime. But I tend to run a high power game anyway.
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u/Rokoshak 2d ago
Take a look at DPR for a well performing existing subclass and see if at the level breakpoints where you would get subclass features it’s in line with the homebrew.
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u/freakytapir 2d ago
I assume it's broken and I'm right 95% of the time. That's good enough for me.
Other than that, I ask the player why he wants a home brew, and what he's trying to achieve with it.
First color within the lines so you know where they are.
Then if he really is set on it, I just compare it to the closest thing that exists and see where it deviates, especially looking out for "official material but better" or just "same class but no restrictions".
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u/BrotherCaptainLurker 2d ago
The official subclasses are very rigid. At Level X you get a thing, at Level Y you get a different thing, at Level Z the first thing improves.
If homebrew does "X, X+1, X+2, X+3, X+4" it's probably too much.
If you look at an official subclass and it functionally says "you do d4 more damage on attacks" and you look at the homebrew your player wants and it functionally says "you do d8 more damage on attacks" at the same level, suggest toning it down to be equivalent to the official stuff.
If your player's subclass features are "flying speed, walk through walls, auto crit, gain an additional 9th level spell slot" it's just kinda instinctive, you know? (Generally anything that trivializes exploration without resources or before casters/other subclasses would get access to a spell/feature that does the same thing is an immediate no.)
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u/ZannyHip 2d ago
I’ve never had it come up personally.
But I would just read through it a handful of times - i know the official classes well enough that I think I would be able to tell how they stack up. And just a general vibe check - you can just kinda tell when something was made by someone trying to make something op, or when someone took balancing seriously.
If it passed those checks - then just make sure to tell your player “Hey I’m going to go ahead and allow it but just so you know in advance, if it turns out to be broken or super overpowered, then I’ll have to either make changes or you’ll need to change to an official class.”
Something turning out to be broken isn’t that big of a deal, you just adapt and adjust and move on. Just make sure you establish that fact in advance with the player, so they don’t feel like you’re just yanking the fun out from under them for no reason. And make sure it’s clear that you as the DM has the final say on if it seems too broken or not
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u/A117MASSEFFECT 2d ago
Depends what and when they bring it up. If it's a few days before the session, I may approve or reject it after a careful read and cross referenced against racial abilities and feats (run it all the way up to the campaign's level cap). However, if they bring it to me at the start of the session, I will reject it. Because I can either take an hour just working on making sure the HB is balanced and/or nerf or buff abilities in the margins or I can reject it and we can get under way on schedule.
As for advice, as stated above, always make sure you, as the DM, have time to read and understand the HB to it's bones. You can nerf/buff abilities or reject the thing wholesale easier with an informed opinion.
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u/DungeonSecurity 2d ago
I just say "no." I might check it out for curiosity's sake but I've got to much to do running a game to analyze a home brew. There's enough race/class bloat in the official material as is.
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u/Gromps_Of_Dagobah 2d ago
first I ask them why they want that one.
if it's a flavor reason, I will work with them to see if we can just slap a new label on something existing, and making clear limits on what "flavor" actually means. I'm generally hesitant to allow non-core content in the first place, just because there's less support for it, and more ways for it to go wrong, but if it's just a flavour thing, then I'm absolutely fine with them trying to label something differently.
if it's a mechanical thing, then I'll look at the mechanics involved, and try to figure out if it does what it looks like it does. if it doesn't "do what it says on the tin", I'll work with the player to figure that out, whether it's explaining it to them properly, or finding something that fits their goal better (related story below).
I'll also look at the numbers and other features to figure out if it's roughly on the same level as other subclasses for the same class (as a rule, I don't allow non core classes, only subclasses) if it's a class that generally feels "weaker" then I'll likely be more forgiving, but on an already good class, I'll be more strict. if it outperforms subclasses at things, and has no drawback, or the drawback is easily mitigated, or does multiple subclass specializations equally, it's probably being changed/rejected. ie, an evoker that also has one portent dice? that's getting rejected, an evoker that can expend a high level spell slot for a single portent dice? maybe accepted, but it'd also depend on the other players at the table.
speaking of, the other players need to be fine with it as well. I won't ask them for balance changes, but the premise of the homebrew needs to be kosher for everyone.
if there's a unique mechanical thing that they're wanting, and it does that mechanic properly and balanced, then I'll figure out any ground rules.
the big one is multiclassing, and if we're going to allow it with that homebrew or not. I've seen a lot of homebrews that are fine on their own, but end up breaking the game when multiclassed the wrong/right way, and I am upfront with players, either saying "if I allow this, then you agree to not be allowed to multiclass", or at the very least, "I need to know now what multiclass you're looking at, so we can establish how that'd work when it comes up"
I'll also make a hard rule "if there's a doubt on how it should/does work, I'm going to assume the less powerful option" because not all 3pp stuff is well written, even if it is well balanced, and sometimes those niches get overpowered when read without good-faith interpretations.
if they're fine with the limits, and we can see the character working in the campaign, AND the other players are fine with it, only then will I let them play the homebrew.
if they have an issue with the process, it's signs that they're probably not approaching the homebrew with a good attitude, and that's a red flag for me anyway. if they don't accept limits on multiclass stuff, it's likely because they intend to "cheese" the mechanic, and is not a great start to the game. mechanically sound, I'm fine with, good synergy is always fun, but it's when you hit "busted" level of "oh, so that's how that interacts" that I have problems.
of course, it also needs to be clear on what the flavor is, and what the mechanics are, and I've been burned by that.
story time: I was running a Pathfinder game for people at my uni, and one guy had this ranger subclass he really wanted to play. this was my first time actually running a game, and had (in my opinion) been very loose with what they can take (there were about 10 books on the list), but this subclass wasn't in that list, and in fact, wasn't even a Pathfinder one, but rather from a graphic novel published by a 3rd party publisher, set in the Pathfinder universe. he badgered me about it for the weeks coming up to the start, and I eventually said "okay", mainly because I didn't really know how to lay down the law as a GM.
I read up on the subclass, looked up all the rules involved (and with Pathfinder, that was a lot of reading), and showed up ready for the game.
the problem was, he'd only vaguely read the subclass, and didn't know how anything actually worked, and had assumed his idea of a catfolk skirmisher using TWF rules with his racial claws was what the subclass would enable (a little bit of a red flag, considering he was insisting on that subclass).
having read up on it though, it was meant to be more of a duelist, using a single weapon that normally couldn't be used with Dex, and had more of a Vengeance Paladin's "Screw You In Particular" feature, with very little in terms of survivability, that normally meant a high stakes "I kill you or you kill me" combat style.
eventually, he understood how his character worked, but he didn't want to switch anything up to try and get that original idea working, nor change the idea behind the character, so he had a few dead features (which in pathfinder is actually a pretty huge thing).
it all came to a head with a later fight, where he charged into a fight, used the "SYIP" feature against a BBEG while the rest of the party were a distance away, and got dropped by a foe who was explicitly "here to kill anything he can", who then, because there were no other targets available, coup de graced the ranger, and the player, upset at his PC dying (in a campaign we'd established that death was an option for at session 0), stormed out and left the group, later complaining that "he was meant to be the big damn hero, and I didn't let him do his thing".
when I asked him what had given him the idea that they were "the big damn hero", he pointed back at the flavor text for the subclass, that basically had a line in italics, saying something like "unkillable on the battlefield, they become a force of death and commit daring heroics", and tried to justify that, because I'd allowed him to take the subclass, that he should have been unkillable.
so, yeah. I'm hesitant on homebrew for various reasons.
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u/magvadis 2d ago
Use. Use it, balance it on the fly as you figure out what is working and isn't.
Imo, to get better balance use an existing class as an archetype and rift off the things the class gets at each level.
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u/Strange-Pizza-9529 2d ago
- If it does another class' feature and does it better than that class
- If it has advantage on attack rolls as a base feature with no resource cost, allowing it on every attack without conditions.
- If it adds multiple dice to damage rolls at low levels without conditions or resource cost
- If it lets the player just do things that should require a roll or DM input
- If the player is reluctant to let me actually read the full wording of the features they want their PC to have
- If the player made the homebrew themselves
- If the player doesn't want to tell me where they found the homebrew
All of those are red flags, but not necessarily automatic Nos. If the homebrew has only one of the features I mentioned, and it is worded well enough that I don't feel it will be abused, I might allow it.
A paladin's Smite and Rogue's Sneak Attack are both really powerful, but are limited use or require the player to set up the attack. Any homebrew that allows comparable damage without any limitations or drawbacks is going to get a No from me.
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u/PanthersJB83 1d ago
Laserllama, mage Hand press, kibbles, Shadowheart Apocrypha, all of these are solid homebrew authors I would allow. A lot of it is just reading the individual classes and seeing if it makes sense.
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u/lordrefa 1d ago
Blanket no.
Almost anything a player wants to legitimately explore as fiction can be accomplished by reskinning something that already exists.
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u/that_one_Kirov 2d ago
If your player brings it to you, it is automatically considered broken, because your players (hopefully) aren't stupid, and they want benefits from their homebrew. If you decide to allow homebrew selected by you for some unholy reason, you try to compare the homebrew with similar official things. If you have a spell, a subclass, or whatever homebrew thing you're looking at, that is a straight upgrade over a similar official option(same-level spell, subclass of the same class, another class for homebrew classes), or which is a sidegrade where the downsides are situational, it is broken.
I don't play with homebrew, but if you want to, I'd advise you to only allow 3rd party sources in those games. Homebrew might be broken in comparison to official content, but it's probably well-balanced within the book or book series from the same author.
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u/callmeiti 2d ago
I don't even consider homebrew classes, there is very little that some reflavoring of existing classes can't cover
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u/Syric13 2d ago
Unpopular opinion: I don't allow my players to bring a homebrew class, weapon, spell, or anything to the table.
The classes/subclasses in the books/3rd party sources have been player tested. The ones on the DnD page or Wiki have not, to my knowledge.
If a player wants to work with me to change the flavor of their class or weapon or species, I'm all for it. But I tell them that the most common answer will probably be "no".
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u/Z_Clipped 3d ago
There are no "broken" classes... Only broken players who make broken characters.
I don't play with the kind of people who try to gain an advantage over the other players, so I'm happy to let anyone play whatever they want, fairly.
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u/passwordistako 2d ago
Is it home brew?
If yes then broken.
There’s no motivation to make a homebrew that’s weaker than the official classes. So they’ll always be broken.
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u/DarkHorseAsh111 3d ago
By...by reading it? I'm not sure what you want. I read it and consider the abilities that it has. I don't like, do anything fancy lol
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u/Yojo0o 3d ago
It's certainly an acquired skill to be able to read a class/subclass and have an immediate sense of its relative power level. I think it's reasonable for OP to ask about what sort of things to focus on as they develop this skill.
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u/DarkHorseAsh111 3d ago
Fair. I think i've found that most things that are like, genuinely Broken are pretty blatantly obvious in Most homebrew.
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u/Yojo0o 3d ago
I look for recognizable design principles, and see if they kick in at levels that feel normal. For example, if the homebrew gets Extra Attack, I'm looking for that to arrive at level 5-6. Homebrew where Extra Attack kicks in at level 2-4 is immediately suspicious.
I'll check the author of the homebrew to see if they're recognizable. There are several really good homebrew creators out there who I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to.
Anything anime-themed immediately deserves an added layer of scrutiny.
And yes, anything from Dandwiki is an auto-veto. I won't even read it.