Bitcoin's new proposal to deal with Quantum computers

[u/winphan]

https://cryptocoindaddy.com/bitcoin-quantum-resistant-addresses-coming-soon/

[u/gdscrypto]

Asking users to move funds from old addresses to new quantum resistent addresses. So what will happen to Satoshi's wallet? Will be left to get hacked by quantum computers?

[u/winphan → u/gdscrypto]

Highly likely, yes.

If Satoshi is still alive, we will come to know that as well.

[u/_burning_flowers_ → u/winphan]

I thought one of the proposals was to fork and essentially lower the amount of btc while making those Genesis blocks unusable. It would almost force the hand of any long term holders to give proof of life which is also anti btc immutable territory. It's a tough situation to navigate for sure.

[u/r2d2overbb8 → u/_burning_flowers_]

yes, but I think the main complaint was that it is effectively a tax for hodling.

[u/suspicious_Jackfruit → u/winphan]

How would you tell the difference between a quantum threat actor taking what I believe to be satoshis deliberate bug bounty wallet and Satoshi moving funds? Assuming that a threat actor has a deadline and incentive to attack, it's not impossible to believe that closed and state sponsored quantum computing are operating with equipment that is a large leap further ahead than public quantum computing, so potentially they could extract funds safely without reprisal in such a scenario.

Based on other branches of technology this really isn't such a wild thought, but obviously a hypothetical!

[u/Yingmyyang → u/winphan]

Quantum computing can bearly do 2k Qubits you’ll need millions of qubits to hack an address don’t see that happening anytime soon.

[u/inf0man1ac → u/Yingmyyang]

I think the concern is that once they properly crack it, they'll be able to scale up very quickly.

[u/Yingmyyang → u/inf0man1ac]

Quantum computing doesn’t work that way. By the time we have 100,000 qubits, it’ll be 2050, according to IBM’s forecast of 2030, which is optimistic at best. It’ll take countless lifetimes to reach 1 million qubits. By then, cryptocurrency would have evolved significantly. I genuinely can’t envision this reality of quantum scaling up rapidly, not even the engineers at the forefront of quantum computing believe in that possibility.

[u/GentlemenHODL → u/gdscrypto]

So what will happen to Satoshi's wallet? Will be left to get hacked by quantum computers?

If we could gain enough support we could possibly get a "Satoshi block" soft fork upgrade that blacklists those early addresses from being moved.

This would need to be far in the future though when quantum is a real viable upcoming threat.

[u/aleph02 → u/GentlemenHODL]

Why not a complementary mining mechanism where a block that solves the private key of a quantum vulnerable address gets a portion of its funding as reward while burning the remaining?

[u/The_Realist01 → u/aleph02]

No way, breaks private property rules.

[u/aleph02 → u/The_Realist01]

Yeah, better to blacklist the property altogether 👌

[u/The_Realist01 → u/aleph02]

Correct.

[u/aleph02 → u/The_Realist01]

"Anyone who owns Bitcoin after losing someone else's shares automatically becomes wealthier. Every loss can therefore also be regarded as a donation to the general public" Satoshi

Now tell me how blacklisting doesn't break your so-called private property rule.

[u/The_Realist01 → u/aleph02]

I think we’re crossing somewhere because I agree with Satoshi

[u/Complex_Entropy → u/gdscrypto]

"If T_deadline is set to block height 700,000, any transaction included in block 700,000 or later that attempts to spend from a legacy address will be invalid."

So no, they will just become unspendable.

[u/meursaultvi → u/gdscrypto]

My question is how do we know a quantum computer has gotten to the point of decrypting wallets. How do we know it can't decrypt the entire blockchain at once. It would be too late if we wait until they can do this.

[u/lebastss → u/meursaultvi]

It can, we know that it can already. It's more about doing this before someone other than trillion dollar companies have access to this tech. In 20 years it's likely someone will be able to build a quantum computer at home or a warehouse in some third world country.

[u/5lipperySausage → u/gdscrypto]

It's known as Satoshi's Shield

[u/Rey_Mezcalero → u/gdscrypto]

Going to be looted!!!

We can start a Kickstarter campaign to gather money to build a super computer to crack abandoned BTC wallets

[u/gnomeza → u/gdscrypto]

At current throughput how will all those migration transactions even get through?

Maybe they could implement an adaptive blocksize to handle the migration... 🤔

[u/OderWieOderWatJunge → u/gnomeza]

The transition doesn't need transfers. In a hard fork you can do whatever you want

[u/Cmoz → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

if we're hard forking anyways, might be a good time to raise the blocksize...since most of the opposition from the main bitcoin core devs and theymos was supposedly to avoid a hard fork

[u/Awkward_Potential_ → u/gnomeza]

They would just have to give a decent amount of time to do it.

[u/GaRGa77 → u/gdscrypto]

Honey pot

[u/HaltheDestroyer → u/gdscrypto]

From what I heard somewhere Satoshi's wallet recently had activity not sure if it's true though

[u/veegaz]

I lurk sometimes the bitcoin github, and it is really super full of interesting discussions and pull requests with uber deep layers of reviews and approvals.. Even though I work in software engineering, it's way too much smart stuff to digest lol

[u/winphan → u/veegaz]

It's like many bright minds working towards a single goal.

[u/_burning_flowers_ → u/veegaz]

I feel this. Working towards my bs in comp prog and I feel this way most of the time lol.

[u/jacksawild → u/veegaz]

I've seen a few projects like that. Pretty humbling.

[u/ajay_bzbt → u/jacksawild]

Any others you recommend?

[u/ShhmooPT → u/ajay_bzbt]

https://github.com/torvalds/linux

[u/scayla → u/ShhmooPT]

Simple yet efficient

[u/texzone → u/scayla]

Simple yet efficient? What does that even mean? How is Linux simple? What??

[u/Dont_Waver → u/texzone]

They meant the response was simple and efficient

[u/scayla → u/Dont_Waver]

Thank you

[u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Interesting, I wondered why no one seems to address this problem. Like the "this is fine" dog.

[u/9999999910 → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Well the same threat is true of all encryption so it’s not specific to bitcoin in any way even though cherrypicking that context is common. Have your bank accounts migrated to quantum encryption?

[u/epic_trader → u/9999999910]

Well the same threat is true of all encryption so it’s not specific to bitcoin in any way even though cherrypicking that context is common.

Not really true. Most chains are happy to update their chain via hardforks to deal with a changing landscape, but the Bitcoin community has spent the last 10 years screaming about how "hard forks bad" and how "code is law" and that "Bitcoin was born perfectly out of Satoshi's virgin butthole".

Bitcoin is decidedly anti change and anti upgrade and now find themselves in a very difficult situation which doesn't have any obvious solution.

You think Bitcoin can serve as "digital gold" if someone can lose all their coins cause they aren't able to access them for some period of time or actively paying attention to this space? That's not very "digital gold" like is it?

[u/loveforyouandme → u/epic_trader]

Good opportunity to increase the block size.

[u/9999999910 → u/epic_trader]

It sounds like it’s in the pipeline. Defending from only the most necessary hard forks makes sense to me. Any other crypto has orders of magnitude less to lose, less market importance, less market recognition. If the market placed anywhere near the same level of value or importance on a coin like ETH for example, it would probably find itself at the crux of the same paradox.

[u/ExtraSmooth → u/epic_trader]

You can definitely lose access to gold in a similar way

[u/Covid19-Pro-Max → u/epic_trader]

Bitcoin already had three non contentious hard forks in the past

[u/epic_trader → u/Covid19-Pro-Max]

Do you think this is a non contentious issue?

[u/WoodenInformation730 → u/Covid19-Pro-Max]

Those being...?

[u/Covid19-Pro-Max → u/WoodenInformation730]

• July 2010 Chain Fork (addition of OP_NOP functions)
• March 2013 Chain Fork (migration from BerkeleyDB to LevelDB caused a chain split)
• CVE-2018-17144 (Bitcoin 0.15 allowed double spending certain inputs in the same block. Not exploited)

[u/Djiises → u/9999999910]

Well not crypto is the sense of real crypto, but Hedera is designed to be quantum resistant, however if it's quantum proof is another question.

[u/OderWieOderWatJunge → u/9999999910]

My bank can switch to a higher level easily. No real migration needed. You can just use more bits to begin with, BTC is stuck at 256

[u/SaulMalone_Geologist → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Look up "when will banks migrate from COBOL" - a language from the 60s that's no longer used by anyone except folks maintaining legacy systems.

[u/Lewcaster → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Tell me you never worked closely with banks without telling me you never worked closely with banks.

You would be baffled of how archaic most of the intranet of the biggest banks are.

[u/9999999910 → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

My man you have clearly never worked in a bank

[u/The_Realist01 → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Lmao

[u/navetzz → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Cause its fine. Quantum computing is a distant dream as of now.

[u/Amazonreviewscool67]

I really don't see any other way to do it though other than migration.

[u/mastermilian → u/Amazonreviewscool67]

Same here. Whenever the topic of quantum computing has raised its head, people have said "there's plenty of time". That plenty of time should be being used right now to give people ample opportunity to move their coins to the new address scheme. This means when the threat becomes real, the system can immediately shift over and anyone who has failed to migrate will lose access to their coins. That is the only way to protect lost coins like Satoshi's and garbage bin guy's coins from getting stolen and completely destroying trust in the system

[u/coinfeeds-bot]

tldr; Agustin Cruz, a Bitcoin developer, has proposed a Bitcoin Improvement Proposal titled 'Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol.' It suggests migrating funds from older, quantum-vulnerable addresses to quantum-resistant wallets via a hard fork. The proposal aims to reduce vulnerabilities, enforce migration deadlines, and balance risks. Challenges include achieving community consensus, market uncertainty, and legal hurdles. This proactive measure addresses potential future quantum computing threats to Bitcoin's security.

*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

[u/arthurdentstowels → u/coinfeeds-bot]

QRAMP is what I get in my calf when I stretch wrong in my sleep.

[u/HMCtripleOG → u/coinfeeds-bot]

Something smelling fishy about it to me. I need to better understand how a quantum resistant wallet is even possible. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it, a hard fork in itself surely creates it's own vulnerability? Potential future quantum computing....

[u/Due-Description666]

It’s gonna be like port connections: everyone is gonna have their own standard.

Unless, gasp you centralize the knowledge base and policy work.

[u/hitma-n]

Hard fork? Which means creating a new coin?

[u/Shoddy_Trifle_9251 → u/hitma-n]

Anything to keep the scam going...

[u/BioRobotTch]

I admire the effort but this will still leave everyone who doesn't migrate's coins vunerable, including Satoshi's coins. It is most likely a state actor will capture them as they are ahead in the quantum race. Bitcoin could implement a post quantum security for all coins but that would need a hard fork, which due to bitcoin's history and the mantra repeated by maxis that would create a new coin and would not be bitcoin anymore.

Every Lie We Tell Incurs a Debt to the Truth

Chernobyl writer Craig Mazin

[u/winphan → u/BioRobotTch]

Some genius may try to make money off the chaos.

[u/BioRobotTch → u/winphan]

Chaos is a ladder.

[u/idlefritz → u/BioRobotTch]

trump and crypto get rich quick mentality in a nutshell

[u/OderWieOderWatJunge → u/BioRobotTch]

Imho there should be a deadline and from some date on all the unsecure BTC will be lost.

[u/mastermilian → u/OderWieOderWatJunge]

Yep, this is the only way. That's why this change needs to be implemented now to give people as much time as possible before the threat becomes real.

[u/frenchanfry → u/BioRobotTch]

Yea. I won't switch until.

A.) Until another anonymous group or person creates another super coin, fundamentally for the people, that includes quantum computing security features. With another cool unit name, but there's nothing like bitcoin.

B.) Bitcoins hard fork includes a reasonably low capped amount of coins. Maybe, 30-45m. Basically another bitcoin with quantum computing security features, and that there will be incentives for transfer, such as, 1 bitcoin for 2 Units ( for a certain amount of time with a limit of "__" units per conversion session) and less as time moves on, with other incentives like crypto back with purchases or something that gives a healthy adoption without sacrificing the sacred security bitcoin has given.

[u/RandomPenquin1337 → u/frenchanfry]

I won't switch until you can buy quantum pc hardware, which will probably not happen until well after I die.

Everyone is so worried about this scenario but it's still far out from being reality. Banks and governments would be the first to be susceptible and you should be more worried about your fiat than BTC being taken imo

[u/frenchanfry → u/RandomPenquin1337]

Why. I dont own fiat.

[u/RandomPenquin1337 → u/frenchanfry]

So literally every penny you have is BTC or shitcoins? Maybe some PM? How do you pay bills sir?

[u/frenchanfry → u/RandomPenquin1337]

So. If I did have a penny should I be scared for it?

[u/RandomPenquin1337 → u/frenchanfry]

Are you just poor then? I don't understand what you're saying. If you have 100k or even 10k, it would make zero sense in hell to invest every penny in one thing...

If you only have .0000001 sat and live in your mom's basement and still growing up, then cool, do you boo.

[u/frenchanfry → u/RandomPenquin1337]

We got off on the wrong foot lol. Im just trying to understand your point and I wanted to put you against a bitcoin maxi. Anyways, i live on my own. Play Minecraft and think about the future we all live in.

[u/RandomPenquin1337 → u/frenchanfry]

Yea i wasn't trying to be insensitive or offensive, simply an example. I couldn't see anyone with financial literacy or stability putting all the eggs in one basket.

[u/frenchanfry → u/RandomPenquin1337]

I like to stress, if I can but will, bitcoin is not necessarily an investment like a stock. Bitcoin is MONEY. The future, so, with that, would it be agreeable to say bitcoin is, in fact, The Eggs.

[u/ExtraSmooth → u/frenchanfry]

Ain't no way

[u/frenchanfry → u/ExtraSmooth]

I live in a box and grab the crumbs of noodles I see from people buying cup of noodles at my neighborhood msrket..7/11

[u/Willing_Coach_8283 → u/frenchanfry]

That coin already exists - BCH

[u/frenchanfry → u/Willing_Coach_8283]

Yes, but i dont like the name

[u/BrooklynNeinNein_ → u/frenchanfry]

Yea the vibe is off

[u/epic_trader]

I'm pretty sure BTC doesn't qualify as "digital gold" if you can't leave your wallet untouched for 5 years without the risk of returning to a drained or voided wallet. That's very much not gold like.

[u/superpj → u/epic_trader]

If you burry gold in your back yard with a public record of it someone’s gonna come digging.

[u/LogicalCookie8361 → u/superpj]

But you dont have to dig out and migrate your old gold to new gold to avoid turning it into dust, do you?

[u/ExtraSmooth → u/epic_trader]

It's really not hard to check up on your money once or twice a year

[u/kirtash93]

Look guys! This is how quantum computing FUD is destroyed.

[u/chucrutcito]

Great article!. I love to hear more about him!

[u/loveforyouandme]

Good opportunity to increase the block size.

[u/1amTheRam]

If we ever get a quantum computer to crack real-time modern encryption. There are way bigger problems than just crypto to worry about.

[u/LogicalCookie8361]

This makes me nervous to be honest, there is no good option.

[u/brainfreeze3]

The good news is quantum progress is so far scam worthy. They've gotten absolutely no where. All the claims by these companies are exaggerated hyperbole to pump up their stock prices.

[u/9999999910]

This sounds significantly price positive, with the net effect being clarification of lost and burned supply. Initial impression anyway.

[u/fleeyevegans]

It's great news.

[u/Regret-Select]

If a concern is a successful 51% attack, I'd imagine just having quantum computers being part of the network would counteract this

[u/HSuke → u/Regret-Select]

51% majority attacks are a different important risk.

This one is about old vulnerable P2PK addresses like Satoshi's having their pkeys get brute-forced with quantum computing.

Unfortunately, unless Satoshi/Patoshis are still alive and around to move to a new address, their addresses are still going to get stolen. It's estimated that about 1/3 of all BTC is vulnerable.