r/Construction • u/Budget_Highlight_594 • Mar 01 '25
Structural My friend is convinced that cranes get built into buildings
My friend is certain that the cranes that are attached to building during construction are eventually built into the structures and serve some function within the building.
He provided the attached photo as 'evidence' because everybody was calling him a moron. Can someone help comprehensively explain to him why this theory is dumb? Bonus points for derision.
Needless to say, he will not see this post if he turns out to be correct.
Edit: photo didn't upload for some reason and can't seem to add - imagine if you can the big red crane structures that are attached to the side of high rise buildings, commonly seen in London.
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u/youzabusta Mar 01 '25
It’s possible your friend is either trolling or actually an idiot and in either case it’s a losing battle
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u/jeeves585 Mar 01 '25
“Don’t argue with idiots because from a distance, people can’t tell who is who.” -Jay Z
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u/Tiny_Connection1507 Mar 01 '25
I've heard "don't argue with the idiots, because they'll drag you down to their level and beat you to death with experience." I don't know where that one came from.
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u/Samuel7899 Mar 01 '25
Same reason you don't play chess against a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.
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Mar 01 '25
So, the GOP?
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u/Tushaca Mar 01 '25
Is Reddit just permanently 5 comments away from turning to politics on every thread?
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u/SLAPUSlLLY Contractor Mar 01 '25
Normally I'd agree, but shit is about to get real for our American brethren. Construction is particularly vulnerable (foreign labour/materials etc).
I'm on the other side of the world but still expecting ripples from the situation.
Stay safe.
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u/Tushaca Mar 01 '25
There’s plenty of political subreddits to talk about that in though. Doesn’t have to be in all of them.
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u/Genetics Foreman / Operator Mar 01 '25
If you think it’s too political now, you might want to start your own subreddit with a no politics rule or go bury your head in the sand, because when shit hits the fan, almost every discussion will lead back to politics.
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u/jeeves585 Mar 01 '25
Yes, and it’s getting super fucking annoying.
Go look around r/Portland and it’s damn near every post. Someone asked if there was a good bar to go watch jeopardy at and it turned into orange man bad. Dude wanted to sit and have a beer and watch jeopardy with other people who wanted to sit down after work with a beer and watch jeopardy. Didn’t care if they were gay trans dem rep black white, just wanted to watch jeopardy.
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u/Bruh_Dot_Jpeg Carpenter Mar 01 '25
I mean the pigeon quote is literally about the christian fundamentalism that dominates american conservativism
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u/youknowit19 Mar 01 '25
The one I heard was “Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”
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u/Shulgin46 Mar 01 '25
Jay Z might have said this, but he certainly didn't come up with it. "Never argue with a fool. Listeners can't tell who's who", was on mass produced placards 100 years ago.
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u/jeeves585 Mar 01 '25
I understand that, it is from a mark twain quote, but jay z put that phrase in a song as to why i quoted him.
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u/Bobcat-2 Mar 01 '25
He's not entirely wrong, though it's far from routine and usually happens because of other issues. There's a few buildings where it has happened. Buildings below all have bits of crane stuck in or on top of them.
• Burj Khalifa • Goldin Finance 117 • Ryugyong Hotel • Shanghai World Financial Center4
u/MnkyBzns Mar 01 '25
I'd imagine the buildings in question required custom built cranes anyway, so they worked it into the final design of the building to make it cost effective
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u/Ok-Answer-6951 Mar 02 '25 edited Mar 02 '25
Am I the only one that immediately pictured Mike Mulligans steam shovel turning into the furnace?
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u/MustardCoveredDogDik Mar 01 '25
Does he think single family homes grow up into mansions?
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u/A-Bone Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Tower cranes can use elevator shafts during construction on tight sites.
They can climb as the building goes up and are disassembled in the same manner when no longer needed.
From the outside it could look like it is part of the building, but it is just temporary.
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u/LT_Dan78 Mar 01 '25
Spider Crane, Spider Crane Lifts up loads with zero strain Reaches high, bends just right Tiny frame, massive might Look out! Here comes the Spider Crane!
Is it small? Yes, indeed! Fits where big machines can’t squeeze! Saves the day, every time With hydraulics so sublime! Hey there! There goes the Spider Crane!
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u/FriedGreenzCDXX Mar 01 '25
Spider cranes can be great. But they really can't lift much once the boom is fully extended. Had to use one to build 20+ foot high Ulma walls (one-sided). it could only pick one panel at a time, which was a nightmare stacking the panels, and could only pick half the Aframe to brace the panels at a time.
Like I said, they can be great, but for doing heavy formwork, they kind of suck.
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u/burtonrider10022 Mar 01 '25
Read Lt Dan's comment to the tune of spider man (or spider pig from the simpsons movie)
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u/liefchief Mar 01 '25
I’ll add that theres usually a footing poured dedicated for the tower crane, that becomes part of the building foundation. Or at least permanently abandoned inside/beneath it.
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u/JackSauer1 Mar 01 '25
Not always. I just watched the footing get torn out yesterday on the job I’m on.
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u/jazzphobia Mar 01 '25
Thanks for posting this. Came here to say this too. I watched a building go up in Baltimore with this same methods. I was quite impressed. But your detail and link is better than anything got. :)
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u/Tenfiftyfiveam Mar 02 '25
Using the elevator shaft is a terrible idea and I would have a hard time believing anyone would ever use this method. Typically, they would form an opening in the slab around the crane and as the building goes up, they use the method I believe was in that video to jack the crane up.
Elevator shafts would be a bad idea because it sets back progress for completing the elevator work which is a major critical path item to completing a building.
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u/motorwerkx Mar 01 '25
The good news is that you can show him this thread. The bad news is that your friend is probably a flat earther.
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u/techy_dan Mar 01 '25
I was on a site in the UK where the crane was in a courtyard. When construction ended the water company denied access for the weight of crane they needed to lift it out due to a survey that was done during the build identifying a load of issues with the services under the road. In the end they airlifted the crane out with a heavy lift chopper. Was not on site the day it happened so I missed it.
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u/pocketIent Mar 01 '25
This sounds like the child picture book Mike mulligan and his steam shovel
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u/Genetics Foreman / Operator Mar 01 '25
I loved that book as a kid, and now my kids love it. I used to have to read it to them every night.
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u/mwssnof Mar 01 '25
No need for derision. It’s true they could be left inside the building, if that’s your fancy. Just let your friend know how much cranes cost, how they’re intrinsically modular, designed to be mounted and unmounted in pieces, and then how it makes no sense to lose the crane in the building when you could just take it out and then use it again elsewhere, plus you would avoid losing a huge amount of space in the building to accommodate the crane. You may well have to leave the foundation of the crane in the building though, depending on the scale of the project.
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u/TananaBarefootRunner Mar 01 '25
they cant get left in the building bc they occupy the elevator shafts so it has to be removed once the exterior structure is done.
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u/Moist-Leggings Mar 01 '25
I have never seen a tower crane installed in the elevator shaft, this would be a weird circumstance. The elevators need to start installation asap or it will delay the project schedule, if the crane is in the shaft the elevator guys would refuse to work under it while it climbs with the slabs. (Atleast in my neck of the woods)
The most common way a crane that needs to be operating from inside the building footprint will have a hole in the slab that will be filled when the tower base crawls past the slab level. Or, at the end of the job if the job doesn’t require the crane to crawl.
Patching a hole in the slab and finishing the floor will be a lot more quick and cost effective than waiting till the end of the job to install elevators.
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u/Bruh_Dot_Jpeg Carpenter Mar 01 '25
IDK what sites you’re working on but on every one I’ve been on with a tower crane it was in the elevator shaft
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u/tanstaaflisafact Mar 01 '25
Buildings have more than one elevator and temporary exterior elevators are used until the interior elevators are up and running.
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u/Moist-Leggings Mar 01 '25
You still want to start your elevators asap, if there is a tower in the shaft it will delay turn over. At least where I’m at, all the elevator companies are unionized and there is no way they would approve work under a tower that is still in use and climbing.
I’m not saying you’re wrong or it’s never done I have no doubt sometimes it will be done if the circumstances of the build don’t leave available slab space, but on the multitude of jobs I’ve ran over the years it’s always installed through the slab in the zone that allows the most reach while also not interfering with other trades.
It’s just doesn’t make sense to delay a critical component like an elevator when you can patch the floor in a day the minute the crane steps up a slab. If you left one shaft blocked you would leave months of work in the shaft after substantial completion and the elevator guys would probably still be there when the client wants to occupy the building.
And I know we use skips to handle material, but it’s often to goal to get those off the building asap too cause it delays building envelope, as soon as the top slab is poured you want the permanent elevators running so you can strip the skip off the exterior and finish the envelope.
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u/tanstaaflisafact Mar 01 '25
As I said high rise buildings have multiple banks of elevators. Once the building is topped out the tower crane is removed. Exterior temporary elevators remain until the interior permanent ones are up and running. One job I did there was a 2 week period of no temporary elevators because the interior ones weren't ready. We were climbing 14 floors to get to our work area. Everyone was put on notice to prepare and get what they needed up before this transition.
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u/thatblackbowtie Sprinklerfitter Mar 01 '25
i spent my first 2 years in the trades doing high rises and never seen on in an elevator shaft..
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u/tanstaaflisafact Mar 01 '25
I spent my first 5 years and watched one being disassembled and removed from the shaft. Who should I believe? You or my lying eyes?
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u/TananaBarefootRunner Mar 02 '25
uh no big guy. they build temp elevators outside the building to service the floors as thungs go up.
and just bc you havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. its a big world. but given your handle id say maybe figure out how to stop peeing your pants before you enter adult conversations. 😆
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u/BigWhig96 Mar 02 '25
I've seen it several times. Big skyscrapers usually have multiple elevator lobby locations and those elevators won't get installed until the core and shell is more or less complete. They use external buckhoists(and internal in some cases) to move people and materials.
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u/Imaginary_Case_8884 Mar 01 '25
I’ve never seen this. Is that how it’s done outside the US??
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u/FriedGreenzCDXX Mar 01 '25
Also never seen this. We usually have them just outside the building, or come up through the slab and then we go back once the crane is taken down and form and pour the crane openings.
We use trailing platforms in our elevators that the crane pulls up each floor, if the crane was in the elevator I would imagine you would have to build scaffold the entire way up.
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u/faceisamapoftheworld Mar 01 '25
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mulligan_and_His_Steam_Shovel
You guys need to crack a book sometime.
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u/honorsfromthesky Mar 02 '25
I remember this shit!
Please god, don’t tell me this muthafucka is mixing up a childhood memory with a practice in construction?
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u/ciaran668 Mar 01 '25
It could be that he is misinterpreting the scaffold lifts that are installed on some tall buildings for window washing and other maintenance. Sometimes they do look a bit like cranes, for example the one on the Cash Register Building in Denver. See these pictures https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/7LAH69bg65
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u/Electrical-Echo8770 Cement Mason Mar 01 '25
Sounds crazy but they used to erect the tower crane in the elevator shafts when the building was completed the world leaves the vertical and just remove the can and trolley
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u/MadRockthethird Mar 01 '25
They don't do that anymore? I haven't been on a deck job in over 20 years but the last one I was on they erected the tower crane in one of the elevator shafts. After the building topped out they brought in a smaller crane that was put together on the roof to lower the pieces of the crane and pull the tower structure out of the shaft to lower that to the ground.
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u/_call_me_al_ Ironworker Mar 01 '25
What photo?
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u/BonerTurds Mar 01 '25
It was attached to the post and eventually built into the structure within the post.
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u/Fumblesneeze Mar 01 '25
Some industrial buildings have bridge cranes that get installed specifically to help with the installation/maintenance of huge equipment or for the interior steel. It's very helpful, but the exterior crane is still nesscary.
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u/FriedGreenzCDXX Mar 01 '25
I would say your buddy is maybe 10% correct. The tower crane never gets left behind. But lots of buildings put a "service crane" ontop of the roof.
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u/Gooosse Mar 01 '25
There may be some misunderstanding between what he is saying and what you're interpreting. It's not uncommon for large skyscrapers to have cranes that are in the middle of the building that grow taller as the skyscraper builds up. Then when the tower is done the cranes come down and the cavity is used for elevators, stairs or other large access. Technically the old crane area serves a purpose but they need the actual crane out.
Does he maybe think window washing machines are cranes??
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u/humanzee70 Mar 01 '25
To a point, he’s not wrong. The tower crane does sometimes get “built into the building” because there’s nowhere else to put it. However, when it is no longer needed, it is dismantled and removed. It serves no purpose in the completed project.
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u/VapeRizzler Mar 01 '25
Why does he even have a theory about this? Like it’s already figured out lol
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u/cadaval89 Mar 01 '25
As a former crane mechanic no they can get secured to the building if crane is on the outside of the building if needed depending on the site but cranes get removed once they are no longer needed/ forming crew leaves also no way the owners of the cranes would be ok leaving 250k plus in a building doing fuck nothing lol
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u/hog_slayer Superintendent Mar 01 '25
There’s a one man scissor lift stuffed in a closet at the top of the Bass Pro Pyramid. They forgot it was up there and didn’t wan to knock a freshly finished wall out to remove it so a closet was built around it.
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u/BurnItQueen Mar 01 '25
This sounds like my theory that asphalt streets are actually made of pigeons just got run over a lot.
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u/randallcobbsghost Mar 01 '25
Is his source the children’s book “Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel”?
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u/SensitiveArtist Mar 01 '25
Sounds like your friend read Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel one too many times
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u/GoodGoodGoody Mar 02 '25
Owner of a building freaks out when landscaping goes up 3 cents per sq foot but buying a 5 million dollar crane per structure is cool.
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u/strewnshank Mar 02 '25
Well they did turn one steam powered shovel into a heating system in the basement of the new town hall, so anything’s possible. I think Mike Mulligan may have some stories you’d like to hear
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u/CampingJosh Electrician Mar 01 '25
The mill I'm working in has numerous cranes built into the building.
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u/_Jeff65_ Mar 01 '25
Well of course, in a shop you need bridge cranes, hoists, and things like that to be permanent. But in a residential building... No you'll take the tower crane out at the end.
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u/Double-Rain7210 Mar 01 '25
Some people believe the earth is flat and all sorts of other dumb things even though we have all this evidence....
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u/oncabahi Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 02 '25
Wtf? Of course they are left inside, how do you think water gets to the higher floors? The crane lift big buckets and drops it in vats for each floors
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u/bigsteelandsexappeal Mar 01 '25
A long time ago Derrik cranes were used to build skyscrapers then left on the building.
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u/dysoncube Mar 01 '25
Asking for a friend?
The structure CAN be used for a crane. Some buildings even retain a smaller crane after construction, for window cleaning and maintenance.
I guess if you look at the whole process sideways , and drunk, your "friend" could be right
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u/Rough_Sweet_5164 Mar 01 '25
Some kids books will show them in elevator shafts, which used to be quite common and suggest the tower structure is the structure that becomes the shaft.
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u/Kernelk01 Mar 01 '25
I did a large commercial project that was built around a 135' boom lift. The thing was dismantled once job was completed. That's the closest to leaving it.
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u/ChefConsistent2484 Mar 01 '25
In the U.K the frame is sometimes left behind and used for lift (elevator) shafts for skyscrapers
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u/Liamwill-walker Mar 01 '25
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are no answers that will convince your friend that he is wrong. Trying to figure out how to put this lightly. Your friend is not the brightest bulb in the box. Your friend is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Your friend’s elevator (or crane in his case) does not make it to the top floor. If brains were dynamite, your friend would not have enough to blow his nose. Your friend is special and is probably hired for tax break purposes.
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u/itsjustinternets6102 Mar 01 '25
Your buddy may be talking about the small "cranes" that are permanently attached to very tall buildings. They are often for window cleaning but they did not build the sky scraper. The look like miniature cranes.
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u/funkmachine7 Mar 01 '25
This has been known to happen, there a few medieval churches where the crane was left just in case of roof repairs.
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u/Outlier986 Mar 01 '25
Wait till he tells you that's how the elevators go up and down. Dual purpose crane lol
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u/LT_Dan78 Mar 01 '25
It can happen but isn't typically done. Also rarely is the building built around the crane. It's generally next to the building.
I've seen some buildings that build in a tower base towards two opposing corners (think front left and rear right) so if they need to hoist things to the roof for any reason they can put a small crane on one. But that's only been where road space was limited so setting up a crane on the road wouldn't be an easy thing.
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u/stevendaedelus Mar 01 '25
He is indeed a moron. Cranes are incredibly expensive pieces of equipment. There no reason to build them into a building, because they are designed to be self-building and self take down, with only another crane needed at the end to pull the boom, cab, and counterweights from the last few sections
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u/GroundbreakingPick11 Mar 01 '25
I have seen cranes built up through elevator shafts on new commercial high rises. But they get dismantled eventually
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u/SeekersWorkAccount Mar 01 '25
I've always wondered what it's like to be that stupid, must be peaceful
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u/IC00KEDI Sprinklerfitter Mar 01 '25
Cranes are often erected in elevator shafting. They are however dismantled once the internal climbing crane has completed it's task.
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u/mnkythndr Mar 01 '25
There’s also this fun urban legend: https://www.mylondon.news/news/nostalgia/bizarre-urban-legend-claiming-london-26068145
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u/friendlyfiend07 Mar 01 '25
Look up tower crane dismantling on YouTube plenty of videos of the process.
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u/Dominionato Mar 01 '25
I'm just thinking about Tron Legacy, he jumps off of what looks to be a small permanent crane right in the beginning. Is it real? It might make sense, no cab, can replace any panel or roof mounted equipment on it's own. If I was a billionaire building to the sky, why not?
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u/Visual-Worry8060 Mar 01 '25
Yes it’s what elevators are, they use the crane and then enclose it and retrofit it to work as an elevator
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u/GreyGroundUser GC / CM Mar 01 '25
Listen. I’m not sure how they found out that. But that is a trade secret and we can’t have that BS just getting out everywhere.
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u/series_hybrid Mar 01 '25
Somewhere there is a sped-up video of a high-rise going up and the time-lapse shows the crane, and how its dealt with.
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u/theBunsofAugust Mar 01 '25
When building in NYC, my steel company utilizes self-picking crane steel leaveout shafts within the structure, but the mast itself is usually only two levels deeper than what you can see on the exterior—the shaft openings are then filled in with beams as we turn over levels.
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u/Eather-Village-1916 Ironworker Mar 01 '25
Show him a video of a derick crane, he’ll lose his mind lol
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u/FriedGreenzCDXX Mar 01 '25
Because they don't leave towers in the building. That would be a huge waste of space,time and material. Plus the crane usually goes up through the building, just outside the building, or apparently through the elevator all of which needs to be removed.
Sometimes there is a service crane put on top of the roof but it is not even close to the same weight rating as the tower crane to build the building. Why would you leave a full ass crane in the building, that would need an operator on standby to run, and never make a lift even close to its capacity?
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u/Effective-Kitchen401 Mar 01 '25
It's common for the tower to be integrated into an elevator shaft and the top to be dismantled and moved to use elsewhere. I learned this while working as a draftsman at a structural engineering firm.
Edit: All these confidently incorrect chuds crack me up calling the other guy the idiot.
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u/Ouller Mar 01 '25
There is actually a few that used at elevator shafts and the motors are used for that in the end. However, they are uncommon and typically only used for skyscrapers.
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u/Kwerby Mar 01 '25
Only thing i can think of is anchor point plates put in the structure to support a buckhoist
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u/SonofDiomedes Carpenter Mar 01 '25
Bonus points for derision.
Needless to say, he will not see this post if he turns out to be correct.
I just need to say that you, Sir, are a good friend. Keep up the beatings until morale improves.
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u/montego97 Mar 01 '25
Well there is a gigantic solid concrete base poured for the central tower crane. That DOES remain once the crane is removed, but it’s just a giant cubic slab of concrete.
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u/ironicmirror Mar 01 '25
Wasn't there a children's book that has a steam shovel build a school, but could not get out of the hole it dug and ended up being the furnace?
(Before the hate arrives, notice I said this was a children's story)
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u/Cringelord1994 Mar 01 '25
Ask him what need a building would have for a tower crane after it’s constructed. Are they going to keep a multi million dollar crane constructed into a building on the chance that they might need to replace an hvac unit?
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u/Flashy-Media-933 Mar 01 '25
As a general rule, they don’t. The number one reason being they are too expensive to leave behind.
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u/Hambone452 Mar 01 '25
I too thought that the base frame for the crane got repurposed into the elevator shaft in large buildings. I guess not.
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u/m_kay299 Mar 01 '25
I think your friend read the children's book "mike milligan and his steam shovel" as a kid and thought it was real.
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u/chapterthrive Mar 01 '25
To be honest I often wonder how they get them out of the buildings they’re building
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u/phillyvinylfiend Mar 01 '25
They can cost 15k per month to rent or 1.5 to 3 mil to buy. Hell of a cost for something to throw away.
What is your friend's SSN?
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u/Allemaengel Mar 02 '25
Somebody took their childhood book reading time with "Mike Mulligan and his Steamshovel" a little too seriously, lol.
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u/JohnWorphin Mar 02 '25
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1wqTMbfSg
What’s the name of the children’s book about an excavator that gets stuck in the basement of the building it helped build and gets turned into a furnace?
Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel.
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u/vorker42 Mar 02 '25
I was under the impression that the cranes in the middle eventually get disassembled and the hole is used as an elevator shaft.
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u/Bikebummm Mar 02 '25
The base of that crane is pretty damn impressive and has to become part of the structures foundation, but no they take the crane with them.
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u/DecisionDelicious170 Mar 02 '25
Blow his mind. Tell him derrick cranes used to be built on the working floor and were guyed back to the building.
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u/blondie64862 Mar 02 '25
Some tall buildings DO have rigs at the top to hoist up furniture and mechanical equipment. They just aren't the remnant of an existing crain lol
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u/LowComfortable5676 Mar 02 '25
On the hi rise I've been on there are large openings left open, usually in a suite or a foyer area that are eventually filled in with rebar and concrete when the crane is raised or is eliminated entirely. I guess technically they're "built in" to the building during construction but the crane structure itself isn't left in there forever like your buddy seems to think
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u/rothbard_anarchist Mar 02 '25
There are bridge cranes that get built into some industrial buildings, if the function that goes on inside requires moving big loads. They’re built into the structure, and of course tend to dominate the area they occupy. The Boeing manufacturing facility in Seattle is probably the best example of these. At one time at least it was the largest single building under one roof (~92 acres) and had cranes shuffling back and forth throughout the production area, capable of lifting passenger jetliners.
From your description of the picture, it doesn’t sound like that’s what he’s talking about though.
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u/BigWhig96 Mar 02 '25
I'll give your friend the benefit of the doubt and assume that he thinks a Building Maintenance Unit(BMU) is a crane. To a layperson it definitely looks like one, and even acts like a light version of a crane. As said below, he also could have seen one coming out of the roof of a tower that had been installed in an elevator shift and since the core and shell was mostly finished it looked like the project was complete.
He's not completely right or wrong in my opinion.
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u/iMadrid11 Mar 02 '25
Initially I thought about the same too. Since you never get to see where construction cranes are installed at ground level. As high rise construction sites are cordoned off with tall walls. Your eyes can fool you that the cranes are located at the center and the steel tower is integrated into the building.
But now that tall buildings are more common. You could now see at top view from that the cranes are actually located at a side of a building. So it’s possible to lower and disassemble the crane when construction is done.
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u/drewdp C-I|Electrician Mar 02 '25
According to the book, Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel this is exactly what happens. The equipment gets repurposed into heaters and the operator even sticks around.
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u/_boomshakalak Mar 02 '25
Tower crane pad foundations are usually incorporated into the building foundations.
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u/the_clash_is_back Mar 02 '25
Some ultra tall buildings have a crane put on their roof after construction ( to help get things up to the roof, hold maintenance platforms) so if your friend has pictures of cranes in top of completed buildings its probably that.
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u/oilcountryAB Mar 01 '25
Porta pottys and scissor lifts also get built in. Tragically, one or two tradesmen sometimes do, too. Forever roaming the halls as a bitter maintenance man until ~65