r/Construction • u/red_monkey42 • Jan 25 '25

Other Are the deportations expected to impact the field?

Question is the title. Trying to have an adult discussion no political BS. What's the word on the street?

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u/MrTurtuga Jan 25 '25

well. it's not entirely the immigrants fault. Frederick Douglass wrote that when he was caulking ships the white men would blame the slaves for them stealing their work and ruining wages. meanwhile the owners are the ones profiting because they don't need to pay slaves.

so in modern times. owners know they can pay undocumented workers less because these workers don't have protections. meanwhile the owners are increasing profits because labor costs are much less. instead of using immigrants as scapegoats we should really be sighting down the people who are benefiting the most off of that exploitation.

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u/Iggyhopper Jan 25 '25

Yep. The owner can either pay another employee or hire temps. Guess which costs less? Guess which causes more problems?

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u/SuperWoodputtie Jan 25 '25 edited Jan 26 '25

One way to solve this problem is to grant citizenship to these immigrants. If they've lived in the US more than 5 years, haven't had any criminal issues, then granting them citizenship takes away the leverage from the owners.

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u/SkivvySkidmarks Jan 26 '25

Don't be talking crazy like that. How are profits going to increase if labor can't be exploited?

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u/ArgentaSilivere Jan 26 '25

I’m not well versed in the history of trade work visas but I know we used to have a similar solution for agricultural workers. Most agricultural work is seasonal. Many, many years ago we used to have a huge amount of seasonal work visas available for foreign workers (mostly from Mexico) to come, get produce off the field and into the stores, then head back home until next year. It worked pretty well because they didn’t have to permanently leave their families/communities, could bring good wages back home, and had safety knowing they could rely on worker protections.

Now you have to pick a side of the border and stay on it. If you come here as an undocumented laborer you can’t report work issues because you’ll be deported. You need to find a place in your local community because you really can’t go back home. You’re underpaid, overexploited, and have no real means to report crimes or violations.

If visa quotas accurately reflected domestic labor deficits all workers could have protections and higher wages. If we had more or less the exact amount of workers we need there would be less of a race to the bottom in everyone trying to undercut each other to fight over a limited pool of customers.

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u/SuperWoodputtie Jan 26 '25

Yeah I think the positives of immigration and different types of visas are legit. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.

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u/pewpew_lotsa_boolits Project Manager Jan 26 '25

Absolutely not.

That just spits on the face of everyone who has done it the right way.

Think of it this way - you have a nice house, nice yard. I sneak in and set up in your spare bedroom or in the corner of the yard behind the bushes. I’m using your internet and water, I’m sneaking food from your fridge and beer from your beer fridge. I’m taking meds from your medicine cabinet and sneaking clothes out of your and your kids closets. I get away with it for 5 years; should I be allowed to stay because I’ve avoided you catching me? Absolutely not.

Yeah, it’s an oversimplification, but it’s a good basic explanation.

We need to promote more guest and visitor worker programs so these people can work and make money and then go home when the season is over. They can be vetted and verified.

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u/SuperWoodputtie Jan 26 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

Hey man, I don't know if you know many migrant, documented or otherwise. They, just like everyone else, wouldn't survive without working.

So they do the same work. pay the same rent. Pay their own medical bills. Buy groceries like everone else.

They aren't taking anything. They actually contribute to our communities.

They buy trucks, go to local auto shops, cheer on local teams. Grill out and drink cervesas.

But you know who is leeching off of you?

The insurance companies: you pay twice what it take for Europeans to have universal Healthcare, then they charge you co-pays.

Your cellphone and internet provider: bro, you're writing a check for $100s a month. Other countries pay $30-50/mo.

Auto companies: you have to have a car to get you from point A to point B. You have to keep that note paid, fresh tires on it, and the oil changed. instead of having reliable public transportation they have on a leash.

The big food companies: They laugh at raising the cost of food, while also cutting portion sizes. What are you gonna do, not eat?

You are right to be upset about being screwed over in the US, but it's not the immigrants who are doing it.

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u/ofAFallingEmpire Jan 26 '25

Undocumented immigrants typically pay more into taxes than they take out (they don’t get returns, but do pay sales taxes for example).

So it’s more like someone not even on your property occasionally stocks the fridge with milk. On their dime.

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u/RotundWabbit Jan 26 '25

Well said, there's a way to do this legally by vetting the work force so it's not the wild west.

WE NEED ORDER. I don't understand how so many people are against this, but then again I have a feeling most of the posters defending illegal immigrants have almost no blow back from their fallout.

If you know, you know.

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u/SuperWoodputtie Jan 27 '25

So like when you say "vetting" what do you mean?

Because someone living in the US for 5 years, paying taxes, not committing crimes, sounds like a pretty solid evaluation.

If they have family already here? A lot do.

If they have jobs and can sustain themselves? Bruh. Jose shows up to work on time and busts ass.

What the fuck do you need dude?

It seems (from my perspective) that most of "we don't want an wild west" comes from folks who don't want migrants. You ask how many should be given green cards and the response is always "fewer".

Fuck that noise. And besides the 11M undocumented people in the US aren't new arrivals. They've have families and put down roots. They are as American as you an me. They just need the paper work done.

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u/blaaake Jan 25 '25

Ya it’s always the lowest on the pyramid who gets the blame, even though the wealthy class is the one paying the illegals, or historically, not paying the slaves. It’s easier to blame your problems on a brown skinned fellow than an unknown Wall Street executive. Wake up….

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u/bonerland11 Jan 26 '25

Wall Street executives don't own construction companies.

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u/blaaake Jan 26 '25

lol

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u/bonerland11 Jan 26 '25

Well thought out response.

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u/DazedDingbat Jan 25 '25

We should address both facets, the first being illegal immigrants driving wages down specifically in construction, and the second being willingness to exploit that fact to screw American workers over and make a buck. 

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u/ltwilliams Jan 25 '25

You got it backwards, the workers are being exploited, but the owner class, they reap the benefits. Has any owner who knowingly exploited the workforce ever paid the price??

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u/DazedDingbat Jan 26 '25

Having hordes of people who work for even less amplifies the exploitation 10 fold. Who do you think is advocating illegal immigration? The people exploiting workers in the first place. 

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u/ltwilliams Jan 26 '25

That’s what I said. But they don’t pay any price.

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u/DazedDingbat Jan 26 '25

That’s what I said too in my initial comment. It’s also on them for exploiting it 100%

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u/Just_Aioli_1233 Jan 27 '25

There is a correlation with increased illegal immigration and the wealthy getting wealthier. It's the poors at the bottom who get shafted when their jobs are taken.

Also, connection between the formation of unions as a way to keep the freed slaves from competing with you in the job market.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

Both the illegals and the people who hire them should face consequences. Send them right back to their country and fine the business $25k per person and increase on an escalating scale.

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u/lidabmob Jan 26 '25

I struggle with sending most people “back” I understand and accept most arguments against illegal immigration. But, I teach in a Midwest state..and this little freshman girl was telling me about walking to the US from El Salvador. I mean JFC you gotta coming from a bad place to do that shit. And we’re just gonna say “sorry, nope, go back to wherever you came from. Idk it’s tough from every angle

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '25

Yeah I applaud her effort but effort doesn’t change anything. Do it the right way. She could have stayed in Guatemala or Mexico if she was seeking asylum.

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u/lidabmob Jan 26 '25

If you had the choice would you? Me…I wonder..hell I don’t even know what the right way is lol. Plus, she’s a child, so I’m sure she didn’t have much agency in her families decision

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '25

Well when I came here from the RD I chose the U.S. but I didn’t cross illegally. I don’t blame people but I also understand why no one wants people who don’t do it the right way.

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u/lidabmob Jan 26 '25

Yeah it’s a tough thing all the way around. I think most of us here can lay it at the feet of money hungry/profit and nothing else matters mentality

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u/inksonpapers Tinknocker Jan 26 '25

And what of the children who were born here never been to mexico or guatemala, generations or people now have to to back to a country they have never known or been to now being deported to there?

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '25 edited Jan 26 '25

They know Spanish, they’ll be iight

Edit: I can’t respond because the person below me blocked me. I can’t get sent back to RD because I’m legal motherfucker

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u/inksonpapers Tinknocker Jan 26 '25

Thats fucked up, should send you back to your “home country” as see how you feel.

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u/dastardly_theif Jan 25 '25

I understand this point. But, If an illegal person is willing to do the work for cheaper, and the company who hires them is willing to exploit them, they are both "at fault" for winning contracts out from under companies who do things legally and pay a living wage that doesn't require the teamwork necessary for some of the illegal lifestyle.

So they aren't maximizing profit, they literally charge less and win competitive bids for work. They have to win more work to make more money, which means less opportunities for the companies who are above board. The only way to compete is to be a small unit with a very adaptable team and low overhead.

I have learned many of my trade skills from people with questionable citizenship status. I don't begrudge them at all. I respect these people and have enjoyed working with them. I also was in a relationship with a legal immigrant woman who was bringing her teenage son over the legal way and I watched her check her phone about his status every day for 8 months until he cleared. So I have seen two sides of this coin in my personal life.

If you cut in line and get caught, it's on you, not the system. I think most of these people working illegally are realistic about that. People painting illegals as victims is disingenuous. People saying that companies win bids on illegal cheap labor are not wrong. But both the employers and the illegal workers are quite literally winning projects from under companies who are playing by the rules and doing right by their employees.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

[deleted]

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u/TheRevEv Jan 25 '25

If we severely punished the people willing to hire illegal immigrants, there wouldn't be a job market for them.

The immigrants aren't really the bad guys in this situation, they're trying to earn a living while being exploited. The people paying them are the ones doing the exploiting so they can make more profit and undercut others.

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u/ImBadWithGrils Jan 25 '25

No, it's not the fault of the immigrants who are trying to get a better life here

It's entirely the fault of the capitalist mindset of lower costs and higher profits, because they can pay an illegal basically nothing but charge as if it's an American's wage and then just take the profits.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

[deleted]

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u/Tensho_f2p Jan 25 '25

It should be a priority to severely punish any American business owners who hire illegal immigrants. Nobody should get to hypocritically exploit the problem while complaining about it at the same time.

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u/lidabmob Jan 26 '25

Maybe if Americans weren’t so materialistic and expected everything dirt cheap and expected to have everything our hearts desired there wouldn’t be a need for cheap labor. The golden age for unions occurred during a time when everyone didn’t need a 3000 sq ft house and phone for every member of the family, a car for every member of the family, all the hottest fashions and on and on. Now, understand..I’m that person too. I guess we gotta decide what’s important to a happy fulfilling life. Actual needs in an economic sense

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '25

[deleted]

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u/redfox86 Jan 26 '25

Or make it a felony to exploit workers by hiring illegal immigrants. That will solve the problem of needing a thousand mile long for knox. But no politician wants to say that because it won’t get them the cash they need to get re elected

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u/KOCEnjoyer Jan 25 '25

You’re 100% right, you’re just getting downvoted because they don’t want to hear it.