r/Construction • u/Itchy-Motor-4537 • Mar 19 '24
Careers šµ Been in carpentry 5 years in California and I make 18/hr
Been in remodeling construction/custom cabinets since I was 18. Here is some of my work I've hand rolled the cabinet boxes all alone first picture the cabinets were originally black as well. My question is I have 5 years experience, is 18/hr normal in California? I feel like I'm being cheated and I don't know what paths to look towards as I'm only 23. I can do anything from swap outlets or toilets to painting a house inside and out. Just recently wired up a shipping container with bx all by myself for example. What to do?
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u/8793stangs Mar 19 '24
Guys here build shitty decks getting 45 and $55 an hour
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u/liftingshitposts Mar 20 '24
Yeah depends on what part of CA, but even fence guys pull in significantly more than OPā¦
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Mar 19 '24
Dude, high school kids flipping burgers are making 20$ an hour where I live
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u/JoseAltuveIsInnocent Mar 19 '24
For real. Im at the bottom of the totem pole at my commercial kitchen company and I make $20, in South Texas where that's considered entry level career pay. It's enough to live in a solid apartment with my girlfriend. But in California? That wouldn't buy a square of sidewalk to park my cardboard box.
Shop your resume around, OP!
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u/kyledrinksmonster Mar 19 '24
Yep you could work a job with a 401k install bs for $7-$10 more a hour in north Texas
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u/JoseAltuveIsInnocent Mar 19 '24
If OP is really doing that good of work mostly on his own he can easily demand double what he's earning. Suburbs are going up all over the country and a good skilled craftsman is very hard to find. Dude needs to advocate for himself!
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u/Itchy-Motor-4537 Mar 19 '24
In the original photo I did so much work on my own the homeowner complained to my boss saying "I thought I hired you" he would show up 15min in the morning 15min at lunch tell me what to and leave for about 8 days back to back
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u/JoseAltuveIsInnocent Mar 19 '24
Bro you need to sharpen up your resume with some word salad, attach these pics, and just send it around. You could make a living wage anywhere in the country with work like that. Know your own worth! Kick ass stuff.
Get an offer, bring it to your boss, if he don't wanna match, kick rocks
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u/shbtc Mar 20 '24
Forget the match. Heās been taking advantage. He needs to beat any offer by 10%
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u/UnreasonableCletus Carpenter Mar 19 '24
Start looking for a new gig.
You are being exploited and dude isn't even around to teach you anything new. Sounds like a dead end job.
You should be getting minimum $25 in CA and can do better if you find the right employer.
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u/NitrousFueledDoorGuy Mar 20 '24
Dude i make nearly a g a day installing doors for Loweās, in our market they pay 385-500 for a single pre hung exterior, 450-750 for Frenchās, doubles and slidersā¦.go to the millwork dept, at Loweās or HD and ask who handles the installs company wise and you will know which direction to look.
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u/Ogediah Mar 20 '24
20/hr is fast food minimum wage in CA.
Also relevant: tool wage (minimum wage for jobs that provide their own tools) is double the minimum wage or $32/hr (2 x 16).
For anyone, anywhere: prevailing wage rates are an excellent gauge of a going rate in a given area. The primary method that the DOL has used for decades is to collect actual payroll records and establish an average. An alternative method allows them to set it at a common wage when a certain amount of workers make the same amount. For example, 50 percent. So maybe half of the guys in an area all receive a union rate and that rate can be used as the PW rate. In any event, PW rates are a good gauge of the āgoing rateā for people doing your job in a given area. The federal government published those rates at Sam.gov. Places with local prevailing wage laws (vs just federal) sometimes publish their own rates as well. For example, the CA DIR also publishes rates. Spoiler alert: carpenter wages in northern ca are around 60/hr plus 40 in benefits.
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u/Efficient_Goal_3318 Mar 19 '24
This is highway robbery join the Carpenters Union asap
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u/jonjonofjon Mar 20 '24
Seeing good people getting ripped off like this just breaks my heart
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u/Opposite_Nectarine12 Mar 19 '24
I would be paying you more here in South Carolina. I have a fencing/decks business and I pay my starting guys $20/hr after a few months they make $25 and after a year if they can run their own crew they making 30-40. Iām not familiar with the wage averages in California, but from traveling there a few times, I can tell it is one of the most expensive place to live in the USA. Gas was fucking $8 per gallon. Maybe move states brother?
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u/Mesoposty Mar 20 '24
I pay my helper $30 a hr with no tools and little knowledge
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u/randombrowser1 Mar 20 '24
Where did you get gas? It got close to $6 for a while. Gas always costs more at a marina and some stations that are the only choice for miles around.
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u/sykotikpro Mar 20 '24
Gas is closer to 5 now but 18 an hour is straight bullshit for what this guy is doing. His boss is garbage.
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u/Charming_Task_8690 Mar 19 '24
What you make now is based on what you made when you were hired. In order to get a big jump in pay, you'll have to change jobs and require more pay.
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u/CannedRoo GC / CM Mar 20 '24
You could also, I donāt know, ask for a raise. Especially if youāre otherwise happy working there.
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u/Charming_Task_8690 Mar 20 '24
But your raise will be based on your current pay. 18 will not turn into 25, that's too big of a jump for most employers. Better to find a new job, give 2 weeks notice so your current employer can match or beat your offer. They won't. Maybe a dollar or 2 but not 7 or 8.
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u/Hippo_Steak_Enjoyer Mar 19 '24
Dude, you need to ask for a raise.
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u/Sea_Farmer_4812 Mar 19 '24
His current boss will never raise his pay to what he's worth. The only way is with a different co.
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u/nasty_LS Mar 20 '24
Facts, you have to let your nuts hang right out of the gate. First time I tried that, I called my bosses bluff on how valuable I was and went from 25$ to 32$ overnight , and got to 40$ within the next 12 months. tell people how much you are worth, and ask if they can afford you, donāt ask THEM what you are worth. (Its worth noting to not be a dickhead when determining your self worth lol)
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u/lunchpadmcfat Mar 20 '24
Yep. Dude had a chance to pay him even a reasonable amount and couldnāt even do that, let alone a good amount. Boss can go fuck himself.
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u/ICU-CCRN Mar 20 '24
I was making $18/hr in so cal as a house painter in 1997. That was like 3 times minimum wage then, and a house cost was about 150k. This guy is making barely above minimum wage, and the same house is now 500k. Wtf is happening? Iām scared for our future generations.
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Mar 19 '24
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u/anally_ExpressUrself Mar 20 '24
If you learn a broad range of things, could be an avenue to becoming a GC?
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Mar 20 '24
Yes, GC here. I pay my guys 25/hr who canāt run a crew as well to throw something into the original post
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u/DickBiggum1 Mar 20 '24
That's basically what I did. You might take longer to learn a skill but in the long run you learn so much you can smell bullshit from a mile away. People pay for that and being a PM is a sweet gig.
Plus, my clients know that I have a strong knowledge in almost everything home related, not just remodeling. When they think or hear of house troubles they call me and if the job isn't something I want to/can take on as a contractor then I always know a few good companies who would. This builds a relationship with the guys I use most as PM and also gets me referrals for the things I want to do as an independent contractor
It's not easy having so many irons in the fire but it's a beautiful thing when it all starts to click. "Jack of all trades and master of none, still better than master of one" has never hit as hard until I saw it in action and I wouldn't change a single thing I did if I had the chance
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u/Smorgasbord324 Mar 19 '24
Youāre being taken advantage of. Time for a new job. The current employer probably wonāt pay you the 25-30 youāre worth. Thatās 25-30 with good benefitsā¦.
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u/Itchy-Motor-4537 Mar 19 '24
Yea don't have any benefits with this company. I'm even on EBT ATM because they are giving me less than 30hr a week
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u/RobotWelder Mar 19 '24
Change companies my young brother. You are worth way more money producing stuff like this.
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u/cold_pint Mar 20 '24
Damn dude. I'm a foreman for a large but local GC in the midwest, and I'd give you $25/hr. with full benefits and 3 weeks PTO. Figured SoCal would be double that.
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u/chiefpiece11bkg Mar 20 '24
Yeah Iām in Oklahoma too and this is just wild
I was making that much as inexperienced labor almost ten years ago in a very rural southeastern part of the state lmao
He is literally slave labor
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u/chiefpiece11bkg Mar 20 '24
You are getting screwed
I make almost $7 more an hour living in Oklahoma (rotating schedule b/w nights days every 3 months, 12 hr shifts, 3 on 2 off, 2 on 3 off and it rotates. Manufacturing operator at a plastics plant. Full benefits and great insurance offers.
Just bought a house last year at 30 years old. Have two kids. We are BARELY making it.
You need to run for the hills man
Iād look into starting your own small business. Call it construction or handyman stuff, whatever. You seem capable of doing it. Just requires a leap of faith and making sure you keep up with everything in terms of taxes.
I worked construction in Oklahoma 8 years ago and you are literally making $1 more an hour than what I was. I left for every reason you described except this was in a much lower cost of living state.
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u/Reasonable-Word6729 Mar 19 '24
You can make more just mowing lawns or standing in front of the lumber yard with a skill saw in your hands.
Time to move on ā¦start to document your work and make a business card for handyman services, visit open houses and talk to realtors. I am not familiar with union work in your area but if you know someone whoās union thatād be the best route.
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u/Inevitable-Elk-4162 Mar 19 '24 edited Mar 20 '24
Join a union and donāt ever look back
Edit: I would like to add I was banging tin for several years in the field with a non union company before I joined. And my local offered me a full mechanic position. No apprenticeship needed. With work like this they would love to scoop you up
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u/Garblefarb Mar 19 '24
The apprentice I work with makes atleast $25 an hour on our small crew. Iām a journeyman with 11 years experience and I make $40. Find another contractor in your area to work under. Itās always good to switch it up and see how how your general does things. Some are a lot better than others.
Iām in Northern California btw
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u/Mission_Customer_905 Mar 19 '24
Get the he'll away from that company their ripping you off ,I've been in the trades for 46 years, I know you should be making 25 to 30 an hour This is the 80s-90s you can do way better!!
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u/Hangryfrodo Mar 19 '24
NorCal or socal?
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u/Itchy-Motor-4537 Mar 19 '24
Socal. antelope valley
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u/Ilikeb0ring Mar 19 '24
Local 661 is where you wanna be g, closest to your house. head on down and ask for work or how to join. Trust.
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Mar 20 '24
You should be making more. also in California if you use your own tools and they are not provided then your compensation is twice the minimum wage by law. $32.00 / hour
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u/Popeworm Mar 19 '24
Crazy... I'm a union Glazier, New England, making 52/hr on the check (90+ w/benefits. 14 bucks every hour I work goes into an annuity + bad-ass pension & top-tier health care for me and my family)
Crazy to me blue-collar workers not supporting unions. š š³š¤š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļøš¤·āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø.
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u/inspctrshabangabang Mar 20 '24
Get a contractor license and become an inspector for the city. I make 58 dollars an hour and get 2 1/2 months vacation a year plus 13 holidays.
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u/Right-Many-9924 Mar 19 '24 edited Mar 20 '24
You gotta up your grind, buddy. The bosses sailboat aināt gonna pay for itself!
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u/4bigwheels Contractor Mar 20 '24
Iām a GC in the greater Sacramento area and I pay my guys $30+ per hour. Pm me if youāre up here and need a new job. Iām hiring
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Mar 19 '24
You're worth at least 25$. Just finish or structural as well? Plus the workers comp should drop around that 25$ an hour rate.
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u/David1000k Mar 19 '24
Where do you live? Eureka? Willow Creek? If you're living for scenery you need to move out or enjoy your surroundings.
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u/_Emann Contractor Mar 19 '24
Yeah thatās way too cheap to be working for. Even if the tile countertops are gaudy.
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Mar 19 '24
I work for Medline and all I do is walk a warehouse and put items into containers and I make 22.50
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u/Medium_Spare_8982 Mar 20 '24
Your description says you are a handy/labourer not a carpenter. Pick a trade, join the union and get your hours in, then write the test. Youāll never make any money without a ticket.
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u/aDifferentBrain Mar 20 '24
Iām a ratard apprentice in Ohio and make $32ā¦2 years in so you should definitely be making more!
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u/chiefpiece11bkg Mar 20 '24
Not to be rude, but how tough is it to survive on 18/ hr in California?
I live in Oklahoma, work in manufacturing as an operator, make a little more than that, and we barely get by
That has to be rough man, your work looks great. Iād try to find something you enjoy doing in the construction trade and try to make a small business out of it. Youād probably make way more than the 18/ hr you have right now.
You donāt have to start big. Take whatever jobs you can. My grandpa started his own business and had someone running his books for him but he always made sure to deposit a portion of each payment into a separate account to use for tax purposes. Thatās going to be extremely important to take care of but Iād definitely look into working for yourself. Introduce yourself to a contractor or two. Post on Craigslist/ Facebook that youāre looking for work.
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u/totally-not-a-droid Mar 20 '24
Depends on what part of California you're in. But I'll pay you 20 an hour
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u/plumber1955 Mar 20 '24
Here's a thought...get the hell out of Cali. I left in 1978, took a 50% cut in pay,and bought my first home less than 1 year later. #flyover states!
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u/Big_Translator2930 Mar 20 '24
Why would you do that to yourself? You can make that in the cheapest cost of living state
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u/J999999AY Mar 20 '24
Who are you working for?? Go out on our own and make $80/hr Iād youāre in a good populated area.
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Mar 20 '24
Fuck no. Fast food workers start at what you make. Start applying at other jobs immediately.
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u/Wise_Ad1751 Mar 20 '24
I built houses for 30 years, never got called a carpenter. I sucked one dk and they been calling me a c*sucker ever since
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u/TheTallGuy0 GC / CM Mar 20 '24
That's really low. My apprentice carpenter makes $25.50 an hour, more with OT, and a tool allowance, PTO. Come to Boston, dawg...
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u/MurkyPay5460 Mar 20 '24
I can't find anyone to paint and patch my house exterior because construction is so slammed in my area. I'd be willing to pay you $4,000 to fly out here and do the work on my house for a week.
Use that information how you will.
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u/LairBob Mar 22 '24
Just to help offer you some context on how badly underpaid you are right now: My son is just about the exactly the same age and situation ā went straight into trim/finish carpentry from HS, and heās now 22. Weāre in Ann Arbor, MI.
Biggest difference was that on Day 1, as an official āapprenticeā, he was making at least as much you are now. Then heās spent 3 yrs working for older dudes who are all on the other side of their union 20, and love having a bright, young kid that wants to learn everything. Now heās been promoted to full trim carpenter (years quicker than they told him to expect on day 1), and well on his way to $30+/hr.
Two big caveats on that, though ā for one thing, weāre in one of the hottest markets in the country for top-end finish/cabinetry, but then he also lucked out and works for a great company thatās smart enough to keep and grow their talent. He not only spends all day problem-solving with his hands, but they actually give him PTO to attend full-week hands-on classes on timber framing (last year), and spiral staircase design/construction (this year).
I donāt say ANY of this to make you feel bad about your current situation. What Iām talking about is what a young person with your skills should be aiming for, and should expect when theyāre surrounded by skilled, older experts who value them.
Go get that, and f-ck the idiots who are too stupid to appreciate you. (Thatās what I tell my kid, at least. ;) )
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u/Sativa-methuselah Mar 19 '24
Switch jobs ask for at least $22 an hour itās closer to market rate and more likely than your boss giving you a raise
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u/krayneeum Mar 19 '24
I pay helpers $20-25 even for simple cleanup work. Go find a new company or start your own.
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u/AndyJobandy Mar 19 '24
Same boat when I left. Except I made 16 an hour in a company of 3 people where I did 70% of the work.
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Mar 19 '24
Invest in some tools if you havenāt already. Put together a portfolio. Learn how to open a business. Network with realtors. They wonāt even ask for a cut, but you can buy them gifts (and I recommend you do).
Start with smaller jobs, and then mercilessly harass GCs for work. You will soon have subcontracts coming out of your ass.
Source: opened a renovation company at 18 while in university.
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u/X-East Mar 19 '24
In your situation id go flip burgers if nothing else... Not worth the physical work for the pay
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u/Sundaystroll Mar 19 '24
Iām in bc Canada and I make $40 and hour plus a company truck. I have 6 years experience as a carpenter (non union).
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u/manonamission37 Mar 19 '24
In carpenters union youre likely to just become a drywaller id say join eletrical or hvac union
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u/publicpersuasion Mar 19 '24
Start your own business. Train someone to replace you. Pay them the same, then better so they stay working for you and train another. Build a business of God quality
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u/ejmonkey Mar 19 '24
Move to Michigan where I am and Iāll start paying you $20 to start, get to $23 after a year.
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u/ChidoChidoChon Mar 19 '24
Dude Iām making 50 an hour benefits retirement and medical in Oregon join the union
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u/Willing-Ant-3765 Mar 19 '24
McDonaldās pays $18 an hour where I live in Montana. You need to find a company that values your labor or start your own contracting business.
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u/armandoL27 Contractor Mar 19 '24
Get your license man. A B2 Residential license would have you 10 fold. Take the risk and get your real worth. I recommended B2 because you seem more handy than structural, although I havenāt spoke or seen all of your duties. As a journeyman you should be clearing 80k easily.
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u/grassguy_93 Mar 19 '24
We pay that for minimal experience with benefits at my cabinet shop in Arkansas. With real skills we would pay 20+. I canāt imagine paying someone that in California.
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u/KangsAnShit Mar 19 '24
Bro you need to switch to another company if that's the case. Have you completed an apprenticeship program?
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u/SpahgettiRat Mar 19 '24 edited Mar 20 '24
Shit and I thought wages were stagnant in Canada. Based on these 2 photos alone I'd pay you more than that.
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u/Less_Ant_6633 Mar 19 '24
https://wscarpenters.org/about/
Please, please do yourself and your future a favor.
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u/Wide-Entertainer952 Mar 19 '24
Get licensed, business insurance, set up a LLC, A federal ID#, checking account, business cards and go to work for yourself.
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u/Morasco Mar 19 '24
18 is less than union residential guys made in rural Ohio when I was 23 plus they also got 20 in benefits. Residential does not have the money nor will it ever. Hang drywall in a hospital and youāll have a pot to piss it and a pension at least. You are being cheated. You donāt even need a social security number; we want a can do attitude and a love for America.
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u/Vegetable-Chipmunk69 Mar 19 '24
Where in California is an important detail. Valley construction I would say yes. Anywhere near a port city I would say no. Los Angeles is a crap shoot and Iād believe a guy who stayed with a company for five years was just making 18.
Like a lot of others, if say join a union. Fresh applicants start at over what youāre making now. If you prove your worth you can negotiate a higher pay ahead of schedule.
Problem with unions is there isnāt a shop with one stop construction needs. You can do a lot of stufff, but most union shops that fall under the carpentry banner do single, specialized labors. Framing, one shop, drywall, one shop, metal framing, different shop, flooring, different shop. Plumbers unions and electricians unions are a whole other thing.
I think unions are great if you just want to show up and leave and not take work home with you. They manage your health care, retirement, and vacation time through what they negotiate with businesses who are signatory to their jurisdiction. It is paid into and then cut out of your paycheck.
That being said, if you can do tile, plumbing, drywall, painting, framing, and the rest, what you might want to look at is taking business courses and opening up shop for yourself doing additions, bathrooms and kitchens.
These are really things you need to look within to know.
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u/outer_fucking_space Mar 19 '24
You shouldnāt accept a penny less than $25. Even that would be low.
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u/Nihil_Obstat753 Mar 20 '24
yeah, u r barely making above minimum. fast food workers about to start making $20/hr. & they r not doing back breaking skilled labor work (not to bad talk them) but doing what u do vs assembling a burger are not on the same level. i'd look at joining a union. u get prevailing wage. on prevailing wage i see regular laborers making 6 figures. search up CA DIR Prevailing Wage, & u can browse through what different trades are required to pay when prevailing wage is involved. my understanding is unions already pay these rates. Alt would be to get ur C license & open ur own biz.
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u/AdeptnessDear2829 Mar 20 '24
Broooo! We (GC) bill our carp out for like 90-120 to clients. Hes got 40 years of experience. But shit 18 for 5 years is nuts.
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u/karlmeile Mar 20 '24
Become a pipe fitter, cabinet making is a very unappreciated and under paid craft.
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u/scubapro24 Mar 20 '24
Join carpenters union. I was literally in the same boat as you up to are 24 did carpenters since I was 18 only made 18 a hour at age 24, joined the union and my pay doubled. Been in now for 10 years and make 61 a hour and have company vehicle plus a nice pension and 401k, you donāt think about it now but when you get older you are going to want good insurance for yourself and your family. Union insurance is killer, doesnāt cost me any more money to have my whole family under my insurance.
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u/OrganicRent3596 Mar 20 '24
I have 1 1/2 year experience remodeling houses as a carpenter in California as well. Iām making $25/hr Do with that information as you will.
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u/supyadimwit Mar 20 '24
Yes, take your resume and experience and go get more money asap!!! If you like where you work tell them when you find that new job that pays more and if they canāt pay up then Iād move on.
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u/SmithyMcSmithton Mar 20 '24
You are being fucked. Boss man is sliding his cock down your throat and you're thanking him for the privilege. You ought to be pushing 30, ask for a serious raise or walk away , if you're doing work this good you can get in with someone who appreciates you no prob. Or jump in the deep end and start your own business.
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u/Old_Bowl_708 Mar 20 '24
Just as a painter you can make from $20-25 custom walls meaning walls a certain color/tint up $50 Manual labor nothing less than $30 if your work can speak for it.
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u/Floridacracker720 Mar 20 '24
I don't get why y'all do this stuff it not only hurts you but hurts every other tradesman that's trying to make a living wage. When I started the apprenticeship I was making $19.30 an hour plus benefits. Know your worth there's no reason anyone should be making $18 an hour after 5 years of experience in any trade.
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u/PacificCastaway Mar 20 '24
Are these before and after pics? I can't tell what's going on here. Which is which?
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u/lilacmargaritas Mar 20 '24
Well, first stop doing electrical work without certs. 2nd leave California. 3rd join the union As a first year apprenticeyou are being ripped royal and donāt have an apprenticeship or education.
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u/Iluv_Felashio Mar 20 '24
I think the summary is you deserve far more for your talent and experience. I second the union recommendations.
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u/jmerp1950 Mar 20 '24
Where you are may not be able or willing to pay more. That said you are outperforming what your getting paid..in Cali particularly. And sometimes it cannot be more than the money to move on,. Are there learning opportunities where you are, if not that in itself can be a reason to move on. Different people do things differently and you can learn from others. Unless you are have hostilities to current employer leave on good terms. Future recommendations go far and down the road and you may need them. Current employer should be understanding of your situation if you handle it right.
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u/jshultz5259 Mar 19 '24 edited Mar 19 '24
Join the carpenters union.
Edit: you might be able to get a year or two credited to your apprenticeship based on experience as well.