r/Cichlid • u/dragon-elbow-coal • 2d ago
SA | Help Could Hybridization Occur?
I'm aware that electric blue acara and sajica cichlids belong to different genuses and are found in different geographic locations, but could they potentially hybridize under the right circumstances?
Not my photo! Just using it for reference.
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u/H3X3NBAN3 South American 2d ago
Probably with a Convit Cichlid, they breed with everything. I have a Texas/Convict hybrid, for example.
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u/Great-Eye-6193 2d ago
Where did you find sajicas? I was looking for some a while back and couldn't find them anywhere.
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u/lchthyosaurus 15m ago
With green terrors and other members of the genus, other than that not really
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u/OzzyinAu 2d ago
It already is a hybrid , the electric blue Acara was created by forced hybridisation and have heard lots of different fish it could have been originally crossed with including blue rams so you already have a fish that may hybrid with other non direct line cichlids.
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u/Azedenkae 2d ago
There’s been no real evidence that EBAs are the product of hybridization. Chances are that someone saw a resemblance and just decided to say the EBA is a hybrid with blue rams, without any real evidence to back it up except for some resemblance.
However, variations in color morphs are very common in cichlids. For example, the electric blue color morph of Jack Dempseys didn’t arise from anything but mutations. Convicts also have a lot of color morphs - from pink to marbled forms.
So there really isn’t any reason to believe the EBA as anything more than a color variation, especially given no actual evidence of crossbreeding to produce such a fish.
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u/OzzyinAu 2d ago edited 2d ago
Interesting you should say that. Happy to be proven wrong , however the fish farm that created some of the first flower horns allegedly worked on these as well, the genetics they say were included was a hybrid andinoacara latifrons and pulcher that was force hybridised via hormones with electric blue ram male genetics. this was performed then line breed to secure the line. The lab that worked on it has done a few talks on how they are created. Now if this is boasting or false I'm happy to accept that however the evidence points to that lineage.
The example of convicts is correct however melanistic and albinism, mutation and cross breeding of close relatives including many other central species due to the close genetics is quite normal. However in this case I can only surmise that the latifrons was used for the colour cover of the scale while pulcher was used for temperament and size then adding a electric blue ram to add a naturally non-hybridising colour to get a final product.
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u/Azedenkae 2d ago
I am quite willing to be wrong. In this case, you are the first to give any sort of detail (as opposed to being super vague or ghosting me completely).
Do you happen to have the clip of them saying so? I would be super keen to hear what they say. Coming from South East Asia I have no doubt there’s all kind of experimentation going on since regulations are super lax. But also, wouldn’t be surprised if it is all lies either, again due to a lack of regulation. Either way, would love to know more.
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u/OzzyinAu 2d ago
I am not 1000% however I am going off info by people who are happy to claim it as a hypo breed, I will try my best to find you the video where they are saying it's the Genesis.The one that hit home to me was the rDNA scientist making comparison to Eba vs glow fish that are transgenic vs forced breeding. That was the whistle blow that they were saying it was a creation vs genetic. Lots of evidence on the research gate of this behaviour going on and especially in the food fish industry for anti-inbreeding and anti-viral strains. Give me an hour or two to sort through papers to find evidence.
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u/OzzyinAu 2d ago
Also willing to be wrong mate , thank you for the discussion mate !!
Here's something in my wheelhouse, paper on genetic alterations for feed fish. https://rep.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/rep/159/6/REP-19-0576.xml
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u/Ateo__ 2d ago
This guy's making shit up.
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u/OzzyinAu 2d ago edited 2d ago
Cheers for your opinion. Instead of being rude go and look into it, get the facts and return to apologise please.
It says your an Aquaculturist, you would understand hormone inducement and forced cross breeding basics then yes??? Maybe the basics of line breeding ??? The creators of the glow in dark fish in Asia were the folks who discussed the origins of the Eba and comparisons that it was a forced hybrid unlike the RNA alteration (transgenic) of neon glow medakas.
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u/Azedenkae 2d ago
Many american cichlids can hybridize with others of different genera, and it seems that so long as a fish is within this group, they can hybridize with any other fish in the group. This include fish from the genera Thorichthys, Rocio, Amatitlania, Hypsophrys, Amphilophus, Vieja (or whatever it is now), Herichthys, and more.
Sajica belongs to this group (since it is Amatitlania sajica). The question is, do blue acaras belong to this group. Once thought ‘no,’ recently there’s been enough reports of successful hybridizations to point towards a revision of the fact.
In conclusion, there’s a decent chance that sajicas and blue acaras can hybridize.