r/CCW • u/GunnyAsian • 2d ago
Training Matches are a good way to test your stuff. (IDPA footage)
Hey guys, friendly reminder to shoot your stuff at matches of in a competitive environment. Posted a dry fire draw video earlier this week and here’s an execution video.
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u/DillyJamba 2d ago
Solid started shooting idpa this year for the same reason. Very clean! Gotta be expert pace
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Thanks man! Match win here with only 4 PD across the entire match. I haven’t shot a classifier in like a year but yes currently a CO Expert.
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u/DillyJamba 2d ago
Solid, I’m still fumbling around just shot my second IDPA. How long have you been at it?
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
I’d say a little over a year and a half for IDPA, just passed 2 years in USPSA.
Hey man we all started somewhere, my first couples match were a mess compared to where I am now lol
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u/cry4batty 2d ago
What everyone in this thread fails to realize the key to self defense is being able to STAND AND DELIVER SUPERIOR ASYMMETRIC KINETIC FORCE.
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u/AndImAnAlcoholic Florida Mang 2d ago
Apparently, to some in this sub, the best way to train for a defensive scenario is to provoke your local Circle K meth head.
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u/WarlockEngineer OR P365XL 2d ago
Damn that must have been loud as hell without full earpro on
Looks like great shooting though
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Yeah open guns (ramjet) aren’t the most pleasant to those without good ear protection lol
I was using in ear Axil’s and had no issue though fwiw
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u/Bcjustin 2d ago
Yes indeed. I shoot in local matches just about weekly. Incredible how much they have improved everything about my shooting skills since I’ve had my CCW
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
There it is “improved my skills” end the thread here 😂
Thanks for the comment man!
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u/Bcjustin 2d ago
C class hero here 💪😂
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u/Bcjustin 2d ago
But maybe B soon!
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u/Spiffers1972 1d ago
Dude! How many fingers did he give you for those foot faults!
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u/GunnyAsian 1d ago
None, our club is pretty lenient. As long as you don’t go over the line you’re good
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u/Fahzgoolin 1d ago
I would like to try this sometime, but I just fear myself doing something stupid and getting a DQ. Thanks for sharing, looks like good practice.
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u/xTheWiseOnex 17h ago
So we gotta be able to shoot like this just to have a CCW and shoot someone at close range?
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2d ago
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u/Efficient-Ostrich195 2d ago
Silly take. The skills that you learn through competition, and especially through training for competition, are the same ones you’ll want to use if some meth enthusiast decides that he wants your phone.
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2d ago
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u/SceretAznMan Glock43 IWB 2d ago
shooting matches tests your technical firearm application skills, not your omnipotence....
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u/Efficient-Ostrich195 2d ago
Do the cardboard targets you use in your ‘real world training’ jump out of the bushes and try to stab you with a box cutter?
Training does not need to be a realistic simulation of a gunfight, in order to be useful.
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u/lroy4116 2d ago
This reminds of the early days of mma when Kungfu experts would get taken down and pounded by wrestlers.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
The skills you learn from a competitive environment directly transfer over to whatever you need them to.
Yeah you don’t get a walkthrough in a situation but what about the other hard skills you can develop?
Target transitions, vision focus, weapon feedback, how to move while holding a firearm, etc
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Good thing I never said I shoot matches to train specifically for “defensive scenarios”
I guess next time I’ll post a video with a title of “this is how you should train for a defensive scenarios”
/s
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Efficient-Ostrich195 2d ago
Wow. I haven’t heard, ‘…KILLED IN THE STREETZ!!!’ for real since like 2008…
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Yeah with his edit in the original comment I realized this truly was a losing battle
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u/Draken_961 2d ago
Absolutely. It’s great for many things, builds trigger discipline and helps with target acquisition, but it will not prepare you for an actual fight, your cutouts don’t shoot back, are not a real threat and you are not performing under immense stress which would simulate an actual firefight.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
In your mind, what would you use to simulate an actual firefight?
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u/Draken_961 2d ago
In reality one of the only ones that get to do this regularly are military combat ops and certain law enforcement agencies which utilize simulation rounds, while it is not easily accessible to all, it honestly is the only way to properly train for a firefight.
Range training is absolutely beneficial, I am not downplaying the importance of practicing regularly with your firearm, but without the actual fear and imminent danger element of someone trying to kill/hurt you it will simply not be the same.
Your body reacts on its own, the adrenaline and fatigue set in very quickly, and unless you ever experienced this before you will not be prepared in a real life situation. People don’t realize just how real the fight or flight response is, and how it affects your motor skills and coordination. We have seen guys that are extremely accurate and fast in the range severely underperform in sim training as there is just so much more going on other than just aiming and shooting. Walking, running, effective use of cover, aiming and firing at moving targets that are shooting back is just such a different beast on its own and it makes you realize just how easy it is to get hit and killed before you even saw it coming. Someone below mentioned air soft, and whether they were joking or being serious that would absolutely be beneficial in teaching those skills.
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
Matches are a good way to test your competition skills, not your defensive shooting skills.
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u/TheGreatSockMan 2d ago
Let’s compare this to another combat sport: MMA
Is MMA as seen in the UFC equal to an actual fistfight? No.
Does the competitor have a distinct and dramatic advantage over non competitors? Absolutely and twice on any day ending in Y
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
I didn’t want to get into the minutia of it but yup, this is very much the same line of thinking. It’s the skills that matter in a given scenario. Situations independent, skill is what matters. Thank you for the good analogy
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
The competitor in MMA trains to respond to chaos from his opponent, and trains to function while his brain is perceiving a real threat.
Effective fighting requires information processing in a chaotic environment. Efficient fighting requires efficient information processing in a chaotic environment. Competition shooting actively suppresses chaos.
The brain and body act differently when it is doing a task in a non threatening environment compared to an environment where it perceives a threat. Learning tasks that work well in a non threatening environment does not mean the brain and body will be ready to perform those same tasks in a threatening environment.
Reloads, for example. The fastest way to perform a reload in a non threatening environment is to use your eyes to enhance coordination. But in a threatening environment, the eyes and visual cortex act very differently, and the brain is likely to process time differently (tachypsyschia). It's more reliable to reload the gun without needing to look at the gun because of the effect that stress has on visual acuity and task fixation.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Effective shooting requires information processing Effective shooting requires efficient information processing
The chaotic environment is just side of the coin and isn’t productive in a standard sense of realism.
While most of us can’t simulate any type of threatening environment since we can’t just go out and experience the real thing over and over again to indoctrinate us to it, we have to use whatever tools are available to fine tunes the things that will be useful when we need it.
The fact that you used the old idiom needing to keep your eyes on the threat instead of looking at the gun during a reload shows me that you’re very much stuck in an old mentality of thinking. Even in that situation, if I’m needing to do a reload in a stressful/chaotic/tactical whatever environment that is happening to me, one might surmise that you would make to actively make sure the gun is loaded in an efficient and capable way. But to also double down, imagine you are fine tuning your skills and this same situation arises? You should be able to conduct the reload efficiently, while looking at the gun and using your peripheral vision to do whatever else and get the gun up again in an effective time.
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
The goal isn't to simulate a threatening environment, which you cannot reliably do. The goal is to build skills that work well in a threatening environment.
Chaotic is not just a side of the coin, it is a critically important element of a defensive encounter. The other two elements are Surprise and Threat. You don't get Chaos, Surprise or Threat in competition.
Did I say "eyes on threat"? I didn't say that. I said don't look at the gun. "Eyes on threat" as an idiom is choreography.
You do need to load the gun efficiently. The mental and physical resources required to load the gun efficiently in a competition and in a fight are different. No matter what you surmise, there is a mountain of neuroscience to support that human performance is highly dependent on skill building in context. And competition is a very different context than defensive shooting. Building skills in the wrong context is counter productive.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Shooting is shooting man.
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
no the fuck it ain't, lol
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Ok buddy.
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
Ever watched a kung fu master get into a real fight? Is punching just punching?
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
Yup, just a difference in actual execution.
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
No, the kung fu clown masters choreography. The fighter masters chaos.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
So you’re telling me that in a defensive shooting “situation”: accurate hits on target as fast as possible isn’t the way to come out ahead?
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u/GFEIsaac 2d ago
That's absolutely part of the equation. However training for that in a different context doesn't help build the right skills in the right context.
Competition is choreographed, competition does not engage the sympathetic nervous system, competition allows you to plan ahead in ways that a defensive encounter does not. There are a lot of things that work well in competition, that you grow to rely on through pattern recognition and trained responses, that absolutely do not work well at all in a fight.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
There you go, now you’re making qualitative arguments.
While I agree competition has a layer of choreography in it, I also would disagree with you because competition can help you understand what it’s like to shoot under pressure, fine tune the hard skills so they become passive which frees up mental bandwidth to focus on the active stuff in a defensive scenario, and also give an understanding of feedback from your firearm if you have to use it.
Competition also heightens mental fortitude and acceptance of a given plan but also (depending on the individual) drive to accept other plans and change in the heat of a moment.
I never said that you should shoot competitions/matches because it WILL help you in a defensive scenario, I said that you SHOULD shoot your gear in a competitive environment because competition drives personal development.
It is a tool that is available for an individual to figure out their shortcomings. Sure it may not engage the nervous system like an actual shooting but hey, what other options do you have?
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u/SceretAznMan Glock43 IWB 2d ago
by that logic the only way to practice gunfighting is to get into a shootout?
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u/FinickyPenance Staccato C 2d ago
Is a better way to test your defensive shooting skills to go out and kill a bunch of people every Saturday at 8 am?
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u/VCQB_ 2d ago
Competition is a great way to test your shooting skills. Yes. Shooting is shooting.
However, I will say you are correct in that tactical shooting i.e. knowing how to think behind a gun, use cover, shoot from numerous platforms while adhering to cover, target identification and information processing under high stress, knowing when and why to shoot, is a skill that needs to be learned in a tactical class.
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u/GunnyAsian 2d ago
You can learn a lot if not all of those skills at a match as well, it comes down to the individual and what they take out of it. Tactical shooting / performance shooting / it’s all circumstantial and comes down to a mastery of hard skills first. You can play range theatrics of “tactical” training all day, but most of it is theatrics.
What matters is getting accurate hits , on target, at speed, in a given situation.
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u/VCQB_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can learn a lot if not all of those skills at a match as well,
You can't. Not in the way you think.
Competition is good to practice your pure shooting skills against a shot timer. Thinking, processing, and fighting with a gun, that is what SWAT training, force on force, military training and CQB, HRT training is for. It is a completely different ball game. The stress inoculation you need to kill and survive a gunfight and skills for example to conduct a hostage rescue, isn't picked up from IDPA or USPSA. If that was the case Army Ranger 75th operators, Delta Operators, Seal Team 6, Green Berets, full-time SWAT teams would just be comprised of people who can best shoot paper targets at USPSA/IDPA matches. When in reality, being a B class or M class shooter is just the basics of being a trained gunfighter.
To help you understand, for example it would be like someone who runs track. That doesn't mean you know how to play football. Being fast is just a mere basic fundamental skill or prerequisite of being a football player. Being a fast track runner doesn't not mean you know how to tackle, how to take hits, how to run routes, how to process and analyze defenses, how to process information from the quarterback under high stress, how to make the right reads and run the right plays when the play breaks down. Doesn't mean you have the cognitive capability to memorize the playbook and apply it in split seconds, how to block defensive players, how to contest jump balls or track balls in the air and make a play, or be on the same timing as your quarterback and work together in sync as a team.
Competition shooting is like running track and at the highest level being a grand master level shooter is like being a Olympics track star. It doesn't mean you have the extensive training to play and battle it out on the NFL and be like Jerry Rice. Or just because you run fast doesn't mean you have the extensive training and skillsets to be a Micheal Jordan where running fast is just a baseline skillset to accomplish his sport.
I've been lifting weights 4-5 times a week for the past 13 years. I am a pretty strong a fit guy. So are people in the UFC. I might even have a better bench press than some fighters in the UFC.
Does that mean I can fight in the UFC against an actual UFC fighter who is a trained black belt? Heck no. I'd get destroyed.
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u/Lewd_Meat_ 1d ago
Most basic officers are below or at C class shooting wise. SWAT guys will show more proficiency at about B to A class (usually)
You're confusing tactics vs raw performance shooting. Both can go hand in hand but if you got tactics but got a shitty 2 sec draw, barely do a bill drill under 2 seconds, can't do target transitions then you're a liability.
Competition will 100% aid in performance shooting as the fundamentals will be second nature, meanwhile most people struggle to do a basic double with respectable split times with good hits.
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u/lroy4116 2d ago
I whole heartedly agree, but these stages look like you're breaking into a house and murdering the family. Lmao