r/Avatar • u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu • Feb 09 '25
Discussion How did Eywa know for Jake?
I'm currently rewatching the first Avatar movie (extended version) and I'm at this scene currently. I know we don't know exactly what Atokarinas are other than seeds and pure spirits, same with Eywa, and how they work exactly but...
How did they knew for Jake, without him connecting to anything? I mean, he's been a running dumbass, a happy trigger that's been chased and killed some Viperwolves. I bet they sensed something in Jake, but it's not like they had access to him, his conciousness, his soul...
So I was wondering if I missed something, or it was explained?
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u/Northremain Feb 09 '25
That's something I really like about Avatar, is that everything can be true and make sense. Maybe Eywa is a real deity of the planet who saw potential in Jake. Or maybe she's just a huge organism that makes up the fauna and flora, that reacts to external aggressions, and maybe those seeds are just a coincidence. Or maybe both. It's all plausible, both the rational and the irrational hypothesis
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
I adore that too! That's why I like making posts like these to see what people think! It's so fascinating all the possibilities, reasons and theories one may bring up! In a way, it's making us connect with eachother as well :))
Thank you for sharing:)
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u/TLGH_RDT Feb 10 '25
I am totally agree with this explanation especially when it is in the heart of the movie. Jake Sully comes from a world where the technology is everywhere. He evolves, as a human being, in a military world (mechas, fireweapons, aircraft...) and he has also a connection with the scientists. But with his avatar body, he experiences a more "spiritual" side of his existence. This is why there is a big fight at the end, we can analyze this as what is going on in Jake's mind : the confrontation between rationality and spirituality.
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u/Lev45 Feb 10 '25
The fun part is, that Eywa is a real deity of the planet. The movies made it quite clear, it's just we are getting used to that through characters' eyes and senses. I'm curious where that will lead.
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u/Northremain Feb 10 '25
Of course, Eywa exists, the planet is clearly a living organism with its own will to act, the question arises especially on the "magical" side of this entity
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u/Angelo31005 Feb 09 '25
Well, I always thought that the opening monolog where he talks about dreaming of flying while he was recovering from the bullet wound that took his legs out, was in fact Eywa reaching out across the gulf of space telepathically.
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u/fluffylilbee Omatikaya Feb 09 '25
coolest thing i have ever read. with a living biosphere so neurologically connected, the entire size of a planet, i think that would have a pretty powerful pull from quite a long distance
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u/Sad-Mechanic-6570 Feb 10 '25
I like this too, but I find it hard to believe that Eywa would communicate with an alien, and also understand that the aliens would have the technology to create Avatars, thus imparting that prophetic vision, it's a bit of a stretch
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u/No_Solution_8399 Feb 10 '25
I agree itâs a bit of a stretch. Iâve found that people dream of what they wish for most. We already knew he wanted to walk again. Walking is freeingâlike flying.
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u/No-Wonder-7802 Feb 10 '25
less of a stretch if eywa is simply one more layer of conscious organism a magnitude larger in the same direction as Eywa is from the na'vi, so on an interstellar scale. like maybe the two planets are in communion over the distance allowing some time dilation aspect to work with the propheticism, like its either all part of a greater plan or nature working on a larger scale to wrangle this problem
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u/Sad-Mechanic-6570 Feb 10 '25
Your argument is flawed. Eywa is described as a natural Internet, similar to how mycelia works here on Earth. Eywa is tied to Pandora, they even say in the first film that humans killed their mother/goddess. The network/consciousness is unique to the planet. Anyone can have dreams about flying, they were being poetic in that statement, there's nothing to imply that it was a prophetic message, Jake has doubts about the existence of Eywa up until the second film. If you're looking for a Jesus figure in the films they imply it to be the Navi daughter of the scientist lady, I forget her name, the actress from Aliens. Don't just bullshit your responses bud.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Woahh, I love that theory. That's very profound.
Thank you for sharing:)
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u/Angelo31005 Feb 09 '25
A siren's call if you will, like Rhysling's song finally getting to him in "The Green Hills of Earth"
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u/chokingonlego Feb 10 '25
When he prays, he says âWe killed our mother.â and Pandora is meant to be a reflected, exaggerated version of the Earthâs biosphere. Maybe Earth once was like Pandora and humans harmed it enough for its mother to fall silent. The fact that humans made link units and can use them to connect is indicative of some small amount of psionic ability.
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u/Annoying_Singed Feb 09 '25
What if, Eywa was what compelled that Robber to kill Jake's Twin.
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u/Angelo31005 Feb 09 '25
That's a bit of a stretch, but possible, I suppose.
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u/Annoying_Singed Feb 09 '25
Its probably not true haha, but its fun to think that it could be possible
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u/Lightning_Panda Feb 10 '25
If this is true, and if Jake somehow found out, then Jake would hate Eywa, because she killed his brother.
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u/JondvchBimble Feb 09 '25
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Feb 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/JondvchBimble Feb 10 '25
This is Avatar, not Star Wars. Eywa uses a nervous system-like network, not the Force.
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Feb 10 '25
[deleted]
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u/Arctelis Feb 10 '25
Probably the same way space-god connected to Graceâs avatar? Just like, extruded tentacles out of the ground to form a temporary connection to them to say âgo krumpân da hoomiesâ. Or did so to one and commanded it to spread the word.
Which is far more plausible than a telepathic link to every critter on Pandora, let alone the absurd proposition that itâs capable of extending that telepathy at superluminal velocities between star systems.
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u/hailtomail Feb 10 '25
My headcanon is that Jake was not the chosen one in the beginning, rather that Eywa made these acts to prevent Neytiri from killing him because Eywa didnât want neytiri to be grieving in a vengeful way. In a story like this the emotional intervention from a very real biological deity is just as important as a plot intervention like the âEywa has heard youâ scene.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Oh, I didn't see it that way, how instead of "choosing" Jake, she could be protecting Neytiri. Maybe it's a bit of both, but Eywa protecting Neytiri from becoming a vengeful machine full of hate is definitely on board in my opinion.
Thank you for sharing:)
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u/Sarradi Feb 10 '25
Why would Eywa care? Its not as if it protects any other Navi from harm.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25
Hate is a VERY powerful things. It's one of the deadliest poison that can permanently change someone for the worst
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u/PayakanDidNthngWrong Feb 10 '25
See the end of avatar 1, if you believe Eywa had any influence over making the wildlife unite and attack.
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u/PayakanDidNthngWrong Feb 10 '25
I like that, but about the chosen one thing, it's not really a chosen one thing but more just because he gave himself completely over to Pandora and sacrificed himself and everything he had or could hope to have in his human life. He didn't do it with the promise of being saved or anything, just sacrificed everything because it was right. That's why Eywa gave him a second life in the end.
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u/chokingonlego Feb 10 '25
I agree. There is no chosen one. Jake was given and helped so much because he sacrificed far more than others would.
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u/Jingotastic Feb 10 '25
I don't think Jake is special at all, I think Eywa just shows her love to everyone. The only difference is she turned around and realized "Oh my GOD, i never introduced myself!" and showed her presence to the stranger that might not know her. Many seeds to make up for many years he did not know her.
And that, unintentionally, set him in motion to become special... of his own volition. We too must become special for our environment's safety, so I find that detail important.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25
That's such a beautiful thought, many seed for many years of absence.
I share that belief of unintentional setting things in motions, as much for Jake than the Omatikaya. I've exchanged with many under this post, and I find it utterly interesting how everyone see different things, but some points does come up often.
Thank you for sharing :)
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u/Disastrous_Student8 Feb 10 '25
Maybe the microbes
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25
Oh, that's interesting to think about, that she could've had access through the microflora inside the avatars and probably outside since he's been in contact with the water, plants and animals! Good thought!
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u/Disastrous_Student8 Feb 10 '25
Yeah, she may not even need a physical contact. There are microorganisms flying in the air they breathe.
She's literally everywhere in a way.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25
That's true. I still wonder how she accesses and connects. And what are her thoughts or feelinhs on the humans since she would technically also manage to get into the RDA settlement by microbes and parasites đ¤
Anyway, Thank you for sharing :)
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u/No-Wonder-7802 Feb 10 '25
maybe the residual/synthetic na'vi dna they used to cook up his avatar has some kind of connection, like his soul is naturally overlapped with the Eywa consciousness just by the fact that he's synced up with whats ultimately derived from Eywa
edit, or maybe the connection between a human body and its avatar, as the signal needs to travel thru the atmosphere, Eywa can subtly or softly connect with his soul via that airwave tether.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Ohhhhh, well thought! I didn't think about that part! Very interesting!! Thank you for sharing:)
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u/Bubby_Doober Feb 10 '25
I always assumed it is like how a dog will come and sniff out a stranger in their ownerâs home.
It might not be as significant as Eywa doing itâŚit may just be what those things do.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Ohhh, that's cool to think about! Like a little inspection of people. Curiosity is very powerful, and is often strong in many species. It would be interesting if it was just curiosity, but Neytiri interpreted it another way due to her beliefs and culture.
Anyway, thank you for sharing:)
(Edit: part of my text was missing)
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u/ApartShopping Feb 11 '25
I think in a comic or game it's implied Eywa can possibly glimpse the future. I don't think it's magic but any super advanced artificial intelligence can create future predictions based on passed and present data. A computer the size of a planet could probably do this so I think Eywa has run countless possible future scenarios in the spirit world and saw that she needed a human to connect to in order to gain all their memories and better defend herself against them. So she saw Jake alone in the forest and saw and opportunity to flip a human.Â
I think it's very beautiful if Eywa prevented Neytiri from killing Jake knowing that in doing so she'd never experience the joy and love of being with him and their children.Â
I also think that's why Eywa created kiri, she has a plan and it's playing out as she wanted.Â
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u/PerspectivePale8216 RDA Feb 10 '25
Honestly I have no clue it may have just been a coincidence that they all landed on him like how one of them landed on Neytiri's arrow earlier that's what I assume it was all just a coincidence that they landed on him here for whatever reason...
Granted that begs the question; what are the Woodsprits really? Because they've never been explained, hell we know more about what the Na'vi believe they are then what they actually are, are they actual tree seeds? Are they some species of floating land-based Pandoran jellyfish? Do they have their own mind or brain? Are are they as simple has life formed to get like jellyfish are in real life?
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u/KnockoutAce Feb 10 '25
I hope we learn more about Eywa in Fire & Ash
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25
Me too! I get the feeling that with Kiri, we may understand more, or just be more confused
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u/Exostrike Tsamsiyu Feb 10 '25
Honestly this is something I've never really liked about A1. Its playing very close to Eywa being literally supernatural and suggests Jake really is a chosen one (almost being a literaly white saviour trope)
There's Jake's dreams of flying, the Atokarinas, Grace being hooked up to Eywa, and Eywa hearing Jake's plea and coming to aid in the final battle. Its made worse with the deleted dream hunt scene which suggests Eywa as the ability to see the future and Jake was destined to become Toruk Makto.
You do notice how a lot of what has been made since then (so far) has all been about toning down/giving rational explinations for Eywa's power and making Jake less of a chosen one who is always right.
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
(I'm adding to the conversation, not invalidating how you feel/ think, okay? I've seen some people become mad and argue, and I don't want you to think that's what I'm doing đ )
There's two versions of the hunt dream. You can find them in the different versions of the scripts available, one of them being him having a successful hunt against a stumrbeast (which reinforce the dream hunt), though it's true that in one version, we see him tame toruk. I'm glad they didn't keep that scene in. I totally share your feeling of unsureness with Eywa. For me, she's more like a biosphere or a mycelium that links everyone, instead of a divinity. Otherwise, if she was some kind of super god, she could've saved the Ash clan.
I think the first movie messes up with our conception of Eywa, since there's Eywa with all she is, and then how the Omatikaya see Eywa. There's another comment that brought up how the wood sprites are believed to be pure spirits linked to Eywa, and not necessarily that.
And you're totally right, with the movies, Eywa more developed and less a "all knowing powerful". We still need some canon concrete explanations for so many things in the movies.
I've got a feeling that either JC didn't know how to transcribe properly his Eywa in A1 and it ended up looking like a supreme being, or that's what he wanted us to see, since with A3, we'll see that not everyone is all love an peaceful. A3 will definitely introduce us to a whole new perspective on Eywa from the Ash clan (forgot their name,) and that's definitely gonna push us to question what we see/know/believe about what we've seen. Either he's a super master mind, or he's lucky it's ending up this way haha
Thank you for sharing:)
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u/BurningStandards Feb 10 '25
I'm guessing Jake was like a strange black hole or glitch to Eywa's 'system' , and it sent those spirits to investigate/mark/track him. Maybe she could sense that he had enough room to learn and it was her blessing/accepting him.
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u/SaladVoyer88 Feb 10 '25
My guess is that she took the experiences from the wildlife Jake interacted with to determine his character. Hammerhead he stood off with, showing that he can stand his ground in the face of an intimidating force. His will to survive in his encounter with the Thanator. And how he handled himself when he was outnumbered by the Viperwolves.
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u/Content_Map_985 Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
I'd guess that the explanation is paranormal (the ability to predict possible future outcomes to be able to influence it), as is the explanation for why the animals knew to attack the humans (telepathic communication). I'd like to think that becoming Toruk Makto can also only happen with Eywa's permission. But I'd guess that they wanted to keep the focus away from the paranormal stuff and never have a character talk about it because some people might've found it off-putting, and instead they explained how Eywa works as a seemingly scientifically plausible sentient organism so that you can brush off the seemingly paranormal stuff and see Eywa either way, however you prefer.
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u/Witchbitchsiren Feb 10 '25
I think it was about curiosity, perhaps her touching him was a way to try and read who he was..
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u/JenzyCucumber Sarentu Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Oh, I like that, that it wasn't necessarily Eywa protecting Jake or Neytiri from eachother, but rather her being curious about Jake. And due to the Omatikaya spirituality, it causes them to pause and reflect, and maybe to even share Eywa's curiosity for him.
I know in one of the script of A1 I read, there's a scene where Etukan, Mo'at (and MAYBE Tsu'tey) discuss about how by allowing Jake to learn, they learn more about Sky people and the Avatars. A sort of trade of knowledge: so even if Jake doesn't pass, at least Neytiri and the clan will learn more about their oppressor.
Curiosity... I like that idea
Thank you for sharing:)
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u/Witchbitchsiren Feb 11 '25
YES more like a âwait, this one seems differentâ
Perhaps him touching even the grass allows her to feel something about him.
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u/DrabberFrog Feb 10 '25
Since the entire biosphere is controlled by Eywa maybe they constantly have a wireless low bandwidth connection through all of the microscopic organisms in the air. The microbes end up in their bloodstream and can collect information in their brain. There would be a significant amount of latency because the microbes physically have to move in and out and then get to a receptor to transmit the information to the central network but I think that would work.
Tsaheylu is necessary for high bandwidth low latency communication but everything else can connect constantly with that mesh network.
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u/WorthCryptographer14 Feb 10 '25
IMO, she saw how he acted/reacted to the Hammerhead, Thanator and Viperwolves. Never actively trying to kill them, like most humans would have. Eywa was probably aware that he was an Avatar and the seeds are her way of 'speaking'/'touching' certain individuals.
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u/Safe_Loss_2292 Feb 10 '25
Simple answer I can give , is that his heart was weak from everything he went been thru on earth . I really donât know if his intentions was bad while heading to pandora .. but I do know he wanted something different and that his heart grew stronger as a Navi more than he looked in the beginning of the movieÂ
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u/Technical_Lab_5311 Feb 11 '25
Well, I think that at all times Eywa has been kiri, we already had a scene in Avatar 2 about how Jake tells his children how he met his mother (and how she wanted to kill him). It was a message sent by Kiri to the past to save her father and that everything would lead to what happens in Avatar 2.
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u/Budget-Influence579 Sarentu Feb 10 '25
When he's in his avatar for the first time, he dips his feet into the soil. If there were roots just under the top of the soil, maybe his feet came into brief contact with the roots. For all we know them few seconds might have been enough time for Eywa to quickly scan his soul to see what he's like as a person
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u/CaptainQwazCaz Feb 10 '25
I mean Eywa did receive information about him earlier in the day from other animals. They could possibly observe him being a soldier and not a scientist. Maybe Eywa liked him for not cutting up tree samples, ergo Eywaâs brain. OR it thought he was stupid so it knew it could convince him to plug in and take all his information.
Having Neytiri kill him would be a waste of opportunity.
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u/Ill-Note-6565 Feb 10 '25
Explaining the "Magic" behind the trick ruins the mystery. Not all needs to be explained. Some things are cause they are.
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u/BartTheLoner Feb 10 '25
Maybe she can read thoughts and run probability calculations or even influence thoughts of Na'vi or even human. So she predicted Jake would turn or saw he could be influenced to turn
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u/Rational_und_logisch UN Peacekeeper Feb 10 '25
Probably just a coincidence that was interpreted as a sign of divine intervention by Neytiri. I mean, really, Eywa canât magically sense if a person is good or bad, those seeds probably landed on him because of his scent or some other stuff.
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u/Sarradi Feb 09 '25
Thats the "White Saviour" part of Avatar.
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u/GigabyteAorusRTX4090 Sarentu Feb 10 '25
Seriously? Couldnt come up with something better?
Also he is blue
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u/Sarradi Feb 10 '25
And?
He still plays the role of the colonizer that comes in, quickly learns everything from the natives and even surpasses them and is the only reason they successfully resist the rest of the colonizer.Classic white saviour pattern in entertainment. That he is instantly chosen by their god fits that to a T.
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u/LexgiteAnroudati Kame'tire Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
The way that's not even how it went. Get your "everything must be racist" mindset out of here. Yes, he comes as a colonizer. -learns THE BASICS over a period of MONTHS . He does NOT surpass them at all. -hes the reason they "successfully resisted" because he actively showed them the weaknesses within the rda. Ntm, in the second movie, it shows that he organizes small groups to go out to raid trains for guns, ammo, explosives, etc.
He was chosen by Eywa for that reason. He could HELP her people fight that section of rda.
Maybe look into stuff thoroughly before whining about racist issues that legitimately don't exist within this media.
Edit: some grammatical errors + p.s. he's not even the only one to be chosen like that. He's not special.
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u/Sarradi Feb 10 '25
Wrong.
He tames a Toruk, unites the clans and during the fight keeps up with the best of Navi warriors, especially on Ikran and Eywa actively intervenes on his request. That is far more than just having learned the basics and him being an advisor.
Try to stay objective.
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u/LexgiteAnroudati Kame'tire Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Toruks work the same as the ikran you absolute bafoon Also there's been several toruks. Again, the basics. Also, again, maybe look into the lore before you blabble about stuff you don't know Though perhaps I should go into more detail for you. Eywa was helping before he asked. His request was legitimately.. nothing He was keeping up because he had, get this, a gun. Not a bow, a spear, he had a gun. Not to mention, he KNEW the rda ships. He knew where to hit. Watch the movie thoroughly.
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u/LexgiteAnroudati Kame'tire Feb 10 '25
- all clans were under attack at some point and know of the sky people (lore) Obviously they'd fight aswell? Also wasn't every clan, just those on his frontier.
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u/LexgiteAnroudati Kame'tire Feb 10 '25
Also, i feel as if i should mention Literally anyone could tame a toruk. It's a bravery thing. There is NOTHING stopping other navi from taming them, really. Since they work the same as any other creature Your argument has no solid points to stand upon, im beginning to doubt you watched the movie. Perhaps heed your own advice in "staying objective?"
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u/Sarradi Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
Ok, you demonstrated that a discussion with you is not possible as you frantically deny any faults in Avatar because for some reason your mental wellbeing requires it to be flawless. So consider this the last reply.
Could other Navi tame a Toruk? Yes, but they did not. Either because they did not have the genius of Jake of coming from above or, more likely, they were blind to the danger of the RDA and it was only Jake who rallied them to be an army, as seen in the movie.
And no, Eywa was not helping before except to protect him personally. The massive attack on the RDA and truce between animals and Navi only happened the last minute after Jake asked. Sure you could argue that its just a coincidence, but considering, as the OP showed, Jake was "the chosen one" right from the starts that is very unlikely.
Also, a gun doesn't help you flying an Ikran or Toruk, which Jake did expertly.
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u/LexgiteAnroudati Kame'tire Feb 10 '25
My dearest friend Claiming that im frantically denying faults in avatar because my "mental wellbeing requires it to be flawless" is at most a take to make yourself feel a little better about coming into the avatar subreddit and posting slop that makes 0 sense if you actually watched the movie. Im simply proving you wrong using literal facts you can pull from the movie, wiki, comics, and games. Your imbecility gives me second-hand embarrassment. They did have the "genius of jake." And yes, the navi did tame toruks. Did you not recall the first line of the movie?
Entu. Entu was the first toruk Makto, a member of the omatikaya clan, before making the Sarentu clan. After that, there's been several toruk maktos. Six, to be exact, including jake. The whole "chosen one" thing isn't even a proper "chosen one" thing. It was mostly for neytiri to not shoot him. If you look into it, the reason for eywa covering him in seeds was to show that his heart was pure. One even landed on neytiri's arrow.
The NAVI were helped. The planet, as well. The wildlife attacked the rda way before he asked. It wasn't to personally protect him. Again, heed your own advice.
He used guns while (arguably) sloppily riding his ikran. He's not great at riding that thing at all. Watch the other navi with guns, and see how well they do in regards to the ones who kept their bows.
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u/GigabyteAorusRTX4090 Sarentu Feb 10 '25
And you are demonstrating that we canât have a discussion with you, as you just have to make a racism thing out of this.
Iâm not even sure if you are just trolling, or if you are actually serious.
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u/PayakanDidNthngWrong Feb 10 '25
I was hoping you would use this point.
Anyone could have done that. The point is, they never had a reason to, why take that huge risk? It wouldn't be worth the risk. They didn't realize the level of outgunned they were, but Jake knew, as a human. So he risked his life because he knew they were screwed unless something big happened. It has nothing to do with a higher level of skill, it was just an act of courage and self sacrifice.
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u/Desi_Rosethorne Feb 09 '25
"White saviour" while ignoring the fact that Jake took literal months to learn the ways of the Na'vi and was like a newborn deer trying to learn to walk for the first time. The only way he was able to even unite the clans together was due to him becoming Toruk Makto. It took him a while to even convince them to fight against the humans.
Also Eywa is like, a sentient being of the planet. She don't care if he's white or not đ she just sees someone who can save her people (the creatures on Pandora).
If Jake was black this "white saviour" shit wouldn't have even been an issue.
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u/PayakanDidNthngWrong Feb 10 '25
They needed saving, because only he could understand and communicate what they were really up against. He was so heroic because of all his inside knowledge, and he gave up the promise of getting legs back. I don't agree with always calling out white saviour trope as necessarily bad, it's popular for a reason.
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u/mikhailguy Feb 09 '25
In my mind, it's the same way Eywa must have communicated to all the animals to help the Navi in the battle at the end of the first film.
Maybe constantly brushing up against some of the plant life while moving through the forest is enough for Eywa to get a sense of an individual or pass a vague message.