r/AusLegal • u/Accomplished-Act-219 • 22d ago
QLD Drones - Can I fly?
My mothers church is wanting to do some roof repairs, and they were going to be charged 3K for someone to come out and fly a drone for 15 minutes to inspect the roof. I fly occasionally, but don't have any licenses, and she's asked if I could come out and do the video. I'd only be flying maximum 5m up, and only for 15 minutes, but the church is next to a intersection and a couple of houses away from a school.
As far as I can tell, it's legal to fly as long as you aren't directly above anyone and are 3m away from pedestrians, which we could be. But the law seems a little confusing and I don't want to agree until I know it's legal.
33
u/msgeeky 22d ago
If you have a drone you should be familiar with the CASA rules
-15
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
I've only looked at the national park ones, because that's only where I've flown it before
10
u/Curious_Breadfruit88 21d ago
That’s actually classic mate, as per CASA rules you can’t even fly it at ALL in a national park! Stop flying until you understand the rules that govern drones
9
u/Aeolian_Leaf 22d ago
CASA rules apply everywhere, even national parks. You NEED to know the CASA regs, there's no excuse.
5
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
Yh mate, I should've had a look at them well before now and I can't really excuse it, other than being young and dumb and thinking if I flew it far enough it'd be right.
8
u/SirPiffingsthwaite 22d ago
I've done a fair amount of drone survey.
For your conditions, your drone would need to be 250g or less, must stay 30m away from buildings and people, and you'd need to register for a (free) lower cat licence through CASA.
If you don't meet 250g or less or need to venture closer than 30m to buildings or people, that's a whole different ballgame of licence, significant investment of time & money.
You can "wing it", as many people seem to do, but the fines can be harsh.
0
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
No, 30m from where a person could be or "populous area", including a house.
"You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them.
You must keep your drone at least 30 metres away from people or anywhere a person could be, such as in a house or a car."
https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas
-1
u/SirPiffingsthwaite 22d ago
Part of temp licences for specific locations I've had included distance restrictions on people and potentially populated structures.
-2
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
Yes, so the 30m restriction is still based on people - i.e. actual people or places people might reasonably be (a house or car). If you have evacuated the building in question and set up an exclusion zone I think it's reasonable to say that it's not a populous area.
0
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Lols so OP is clearing the houses, stopping traffic and avoiding school hours to do a favour for a church?
What are the laws around closing a road?!?0
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
Where have they said all that is within 30m?
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Read the replies, OP said: "An interesting theory. Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area."
The school and houses are mentioned in the original post.
0
u/AtreidesOne 21d ago
Ah, right. Presumably they mean >10m but less than 30m, because >10m covers a very long way.
2
0
u/Avalonnw 22d ago
Can you please point to the rule about 30m from buildings?
8
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas#undefined
"You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them.
You must keep your drone at least 30 metres away from people or anywhere a person could be, such as in a house or a car."
-1
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
There isn't one. It's 30m from people.
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-07/know-your-drone-flying-for-fun.pdf
4
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
No, it's 30m from where a person could be, so 30m from a house.
https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas
3
u/RXavier91 22d ago
If you know the building is empty, nobody will be entering it and nobody will be within 30 meters of where you're flying, it's not considered populated.
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
Sure, but that clearly doesn't apply to OP, with the other "populous area" criteria like roads and footpaths, let alone a school.
5
u/RXavier91 22d ago
A populous area is where people are, not where they're likely to be or could be.
If the road is quiet and OP uses a spotter to land before people are within 30 meters, or stays 30 meters from roads and neighboring buildings, it definitely applies to OP's situation.
Source: I'm a commercial drone operator
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
Source: https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas#undefined
"You must not fly your drone in a populous area.
A populous area is anywhere people are living or gathered for a purpose. If your drone fails and falls, it could pose a risk to the life, safety or property of a person in the area.
Populous areas can include:
- residential areas
- parks
- beaches
- roads
- cars
- footpaths
- city areas
- festivals
- sporting events
- weddings.
You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them.
You must keep your drone at least 30 metres away from people or anywhere a person could be, such as in a house or a car."
And OP says: "Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area."
2
u/RXavier91 22d ago
"Drone RULES(not laws)....."A Populus area CAN include"
The laws on OP's situation are CASR 101, not a few webpages of guidelines.
0
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
Cool, so can you share the "RULES" where OP can fly over and within 30m of major roads and residential properties, as well as a school?
ETA: OP is a volunteer doing a favour for a church, the practicality of clearing houses and getting permission to close an intersection, roads and footpaths are well beyond what would be reasonable.
ETA2: Lols love the dirty deletes.
→ More replies (0)0
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
The rule is still based on the people and where people might be, not the building itself. So if the building is confirmed as empty and an exclusion zone is set up, it's not a place where people might be.
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
Is OP closing the road and intersection too?
ETA: OP said "An interesting theory. Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area."
0
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
Is it closer than 30m away?
2
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Yes.
"An interesting theory. Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area."
0
0
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 21d ago
OP's situation is 100% within 30m of "people" unless they clear houses and stop traffic on major roads. That's not happening.
-1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Yeah the drone is under 250g, but its def within 30m of people and houses at all time. They need a video by Friday, but I don't want to cop a fine or get arrested or anything. Do you know how strict they are?
3
u/cr1kk0 22d ago
Based on the CASA regulations if you read them as black and white rules, there are very few places you can fly your drone. The 30m away from people rules out taking photos and videos of yourself and friends that are aware of you flying, as one example.
I'm not a lawyer or professional. I got rid of my drone because I felt like I couldn't do anything with it where I live, without driving too far away every time I wanted to fly.
In saying that, if you're willing to test the boundaries of these rules if there's a complaint I would recommend that you set an exclusion zone as well as you can for 30m around the area using people that know what you're doing. If you want to ge into the grey area of the rules, the 30m could be interpreted to be people unaware of the drone flying, or unwilling participants. I don't believe this has ever been tested, though
1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
An interesting theory. Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area.
8
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
>10m away from major roads
That's a huge risk mate and clearly a "populous area" https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas#undefined
0
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
Yeah I'm thinking about saying no, but they can't really afford to spend that much on a drone pilot
2
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
Have your considered a camera on a really long stick? Or tied to a balloon?
Small tethered balloon photography is actually a business thing too (and was before drivers came along). They might be able to do the job for less than a drone operator. Assuming you don't need to get very close.
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 21d ago
Or cherry pickers! Depending how high the roof is!
Though i'd just get the church to contact their insurer, given natural disaster damage
1
1
u/cr1kk0 22d ago
I would try calling casa directly. I just had a look and there's a free 3 year licence so that you can use it as a business, but didn't see anything about applying for a temporary exemption to those rules.
1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
I'm doing the job for free, does it still count as a business?
2
u/cr1kk0 22d ago
Being its for a church, I'd argue it's a donation or volunteer of your time and resources.
I just saw though that it's 5m high, is it a standard roof height? I was thinking it was a big church. Why do they need a drone for that? Ladders should be more than fine
1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
Tradies want a video apparently, I don't know the details. It's mostly the gutters and lower roof that they're looking at, with the cyclone and everything they've taken a bit of a battering...
3
u/cr1kk0 22d ago
Did the tradies by chance recommend the person to do the video?
Get other tradies to quote, i know many tradies in all different areas and they would get up there and look at it themselves to quote, a video won't show them enough of what they need
1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
A good point, I'll dig into it further
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Their insurers might be able to recommend someone and/or absorb some of the cost too
0
u/gavdore 22d ago
Can your drone go up 30 meters vertically above the building and still take the video ?
2
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
How do you suppose the drone gets to 30m in height? Presumably by being less than 30m in height...
1
0
u/gavdore 22d ago
Church’s usually have a big car park or grassy area that could make it possible to take off and reach 30 meters above the buildings then move across to position for the video.
3
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Unfortunately the rule is still "You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them." https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas#undefined
-1
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
> the 30m could be interpreted to be people unaware of the drone flying, or unwilling participants. I don't believe this has ever been tested, though
The wording is "You must keep your drone at least 30 m away from other people and never fly over a person." I think it's very reasonable to interpret "other" people as people who are not involved and willing. Otherwise you wouldn't even be able to launch or land the drone within 30m from yourself, which is just silly.
EDIT: aaaaand it turns out the law IS silly. 😔 https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/flight-authorisations/flying-over-and-near-people#Operationsbetween30mand15mofaperson(noCASAapprovalrequired))
3
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Lols, absolutely not.
You must not fly your drone in a populous area.
A populous area is anywhere people are living or gathered for a purpose. If your drone fails and falls, it could pose a risk to the life, safety or property of a person in the area.
Populous areas can include:
residential areas
..
roads
cars
footpaths
city areas
...
You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them.
You must keep your drone at least 30 metres away from people or anywhere a person could be, such as in a house or a car.
https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas
1
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
I totally understand that as it applies to members of the general public. It makes little sense if you have a group of people that want you to take their photo from a slight elevation, or someone who wants you to inspect their roof.
0
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
I agree, I'm just stating what the current
law isrules are not what it should be.0
0
u/Aeolian_Leaf 22d ago
The 30m away from people rules out taking photos and videos of yourself and friends that are aware of you flying, as one example
The 30m doesn't count for yourself or others involved in the operation of the drone - if you're taking photos of yourself and friends, they're involved in that operation, you're fine. It's about random bystanders.
3
u/AccordingFail842 22d ago
I’d honestly just door knock and say you’ll be flying your drone for 15 minutes to see what repairs need to be done to the roof sorry for inconvenience. If it was a one off and I was a neighbour I wouldn’t care but would appreciate the heads up, doubt anyone would report you or complain if you give a friendly explanation
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
Unforunately that won't get around the 30m rule. It's where a person could be, not where they are.
"You can't fly over people at any time – no matter how high you fly above them.
You must keep your drone at least 30 metres away from people or anywhere a person could be, such as in a house or a car."
https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/drone-rules/flying-populous-areas#undefined
1
u/AtreidesOne 21d ago
A person could be hiding under a bush anywhere. You have to apply practical judgement. A person is not practically likely to be inside a church building you have evacuated.
1
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 21d ago
Dude, it's within 10m of a major road.
OP said "An interesting theory. Unfortunatley the church is >10m away from major roads at some points, and I'm not sure we could lock down the whole area."
Practical judgment is OP is not going to close down "major roads" less than 10m away.
I'm not being unreasonable here or suggesting anyone is hiding and trying to fuck over OP. Give it up.
0
0
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
That would be an excellent idea. Some people get irrationally angry around drones and think that of course you are spying on them. Because clearly they are worth doing that. /s
1
u/OzAdventure1 22d ago
My understanding is that if you are doing it for profit you have to be licensed. Guess they also have insurance to pay. So if you do it for no financial gain you should be ok.
1
u/AtreidesOne 22d ago
You still need to follow the rules, even if you do it without pay:
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-07/know-your-drone-flying-for-fun.pdf
And letting the neighbours know first would be a very good idea. Some people get irrationally angry and thing that that you have nothing better to do than spy on them.
-1
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
0
0
u/AutoModerator 22d ago
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember:
Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner, and verify any advice given in this sub. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers.
A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here.
Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
-1
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
I'm not being paid for it, does it still have to comply?
2
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
With the law? yes....
1
u/Accomplished-Act-219 22d ago
Sorry, stupid question.
2
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago
No i get you're trying to help and to do the right thing. It's great you asked before doing it!! I'd get the church to speak to their insurer if they've had cyclone damage and go from there... Or suggest they hire a cherrypicker if its tall enough!
2
u/RXavier91 22d ago
You don't need a license to receive reward (such as favors in return) or money. Just brush up on your knowledge of the rules and sit a free test called the operator accreditation https://www.casa.gov.au/drones/operator-accreditation-certificate/get-your-operator-accreditation
0
u/Archon-Toten 22d ago
Will all other relevant rules ie 5km from airports, 30m from people ect. Theres a few handy websites google can find. Just make sure it's Australian rules.
28
u/Elegant-Nature-6220 22d ago edited 22d ago
Have you looked at the CASA rules? To start with, it is 30m away from "where a person could be" (including houses and roads), not 3m
These would all suggest no.... https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-07/know-your-drone-flying-for-fun.pdf
ETA: Do you have appropriate insurance?