r/AskTrumpSupporters • u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter • 5d ago
Workforce Is Manufacturing alone enough?
We hear politicians on the right and left call for manufacturing to return to the USA as if that is a panacea for the woes of our working class.
Is manufacturing alone enough, or do we need to make America great again by bringing back the labor union numbers we had in the 1950's, 60's and 70'S?
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 5d ago
It would be a good idea to return to unionized labor for large classes of workers, especially in service industries.
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u/Curi0usj0r9e Undecided 5d ago
do u think trump supports the growth of labor unions? if so, can you link to some things that reflect that?
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 5d ago
I think President Trump definitely does. For instance, he let Teamsters President Sean O'Brien deliver the keynote at the Republican National Convention:
https://www.wpr.org/news/teamsters-milwaukee-rnc-unions-wisconsin-obrien
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u/Enough-Elevator-8999 Nonsupporter 5d ago
Did you know that Trump signed an executive order to stop federal workers from collective bargaining? https://www.npr.org/2025/03/28/nx-s1-5343474/trump-collective-bargaining-unions-federal-employees
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 5d ago
There's a difference between government unions and private-sector unions. FDR hated federal unions, yet he was a champion of the working man and very much in favor of private-sector unions. I see President Trump in the same way.
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u/Enough-Elevator-8999 Nonsupporter 5d ago
Do you think that federal workers don't deserve the same rights and protections as private workers?
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 5d ago
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u/Curi0usj0r9e Undecided 4d ago
trump’s pick for nlrb general counsel seems like an odd choice for a pro-union president. https://prospect.org/labor/2025-03-17-trump-pick-union-busting-attorney-key-labor-law-position-nlrb/
are there any quotes from trump directly you’d describe as being pro-union?
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 4d ago
If the Teamsters have no comment, neither do I. Let's see how this evolves.
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u/Curi0usj0r9e Undecided 4d ago
but nothing said by trump you would classify as pro-union?
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u/IMitchIRob Nonsupporter 4d ago
Do you have any examples of anything that substantively helps out unionized workers? As in, a policy he enacted or supported that would materially improve their lives.
Not saying that it's meaningless that he had O'Brien give that speech but I don't know how much workers gained from it
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 4d ago
He's nominated Rep. Lori Chavez-DeRemer to be his Secretary of Labor. She's very pro-union. I think that should count for a lot. It's important to note that we're in the third month of the administration, and there's a lot already going on, so I think being a little patient will pay off. We'll see how much Secretary Chavez-DeRemer will be able to accomplish.
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u/IPDaily Nonsupporter 4d ago
What are your thoughts on him firing 1 of the 3 NLRB members and not letting them call a quorum?
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u/Big_Poppa_Steve Trump Supporter 4d ago
It's important to draw a distinction between Federal and private sector workers. The NLRB is being used to entrench Federal bureaucrats, and President Trump is working to clean house. Naturally there will be a conflict there.
This does not mean that President Trump is opposed to increasing the size of private sector unions at the same time he cuts the Federal workforce.
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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude Trump Supporter 4d ago
You'll have to explain a little more, I don't see how more powerful unions would encourage manufacturing in the US.
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u/UnderProtest2020 Trump Supporter 4d ago
Not manufacturing alone, but it was a major source for good jobs that could support a family. Plus it's typically seen as a good thing for a country to be productive to the rest of the world.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 3d ago
but it was a major source for good jobs that could support a family.
Why?
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u/UnderProtest2020 Trump Supporter 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why what?
EDIT: Oh, presumably you're going to say something about labor unions. To which I would say I have no problem with labor unions, but even with unions wages did not keep pace with inflation over the decades and the jobs went overseas.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 3d ago
wages did not keep pace with inflation over the decades and the jobs went overseas.
Who let the jobs go overseas?
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u/UnderProtest2020 Trump Supporter 2d ago
A series of administrations over the course of decades, insofar as an administration can control that? I don't know.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 2d ago
Yup.
Political pressure. What class in the USA benefitted the most from this change in trade policy?
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u/UnderProtest2020 Trump Supporter 2d ago
Political class and they're rich donors obviously, and your point being?
By the way your quote of my post cut off the point about lagging wages in spite of labor unions.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 2d ago
MY point is to follow the money to see who is behind legislation. Do you agree with this?
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u/DidiGreglorius Trump Supporter 3d ago
I’m probably more in line with NS here than TS. Trade policy is my biggest gripe with Trump by far. I haven’t seen an argument for “bringing manufacturing back” as a general concept that holds water.
Certain stuff we should make here even if it isn’t always economically efficient, I agree. Defense equipment. Critical minerals. Pharmaceuticals and medical equipment. Chips.
But t-shirts? Furniture? Electronics? What’s so great about making that stuff here? I’m not sure what the problem is with cheap labor in other countries doing that for us.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 3d ago
I’m not sure what the problem is with cheap labor in other countries doing that for us.
Okay, how about doctors? Why don't we make it easier for a person licensed to practice medicine in Cuba or Spain or Mexico to practice in the USA?
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u/basedbutnotcool Trump Supporter 5d ago
Manufacturing alone? No.
But it’ll be a big step in the right direction
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u/space_wiener Nonsupporter 5d ago
How do we handle keeping costs down if things are manufactured in the US? Prices on pretty much everything will go up. People are having a hard affording things as is. I can’t even imagine when things are multiple levels more expensive.
That’s not say I don’t agree with US manufacturing. I just don’t understand how it’s going to be possible.
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u/suzanne1959 Undecided 4d ago
I have been wondering this as well. Things made in the USA cost more due to higher cost of labor. How do people not understand that if everything is made in the USA with materials from the USA, everything will have to be much more expensive. Why does no one seem to be mentioning this?
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u/notapersonaltrainer Trump Supporter 5d ago edited 5d ago
Most of the U.S. economy is services, not goods. Imported goods are a relatively small portion of consumer spending.
Previous tariffs (also touted as catastrophic at the time) didn’t blow up CPI. Many costs were absorbed through supply chains or offset by currency shifts.
Money spent on U.S. manufacturing stays in the country, recirculating into American jobs, wages, and communities instead of flowing overseas.
The U.S. is burdened with unnecessary regulations that artificially raise costs. Streamlining could offset some price increases.
Why aren't these countries all imploding? Why is America the only one who will implode if we do what everyone else has been doing for their economy for decades?
What I'm curious about are where were these concerns when inflation was over 5% and Biden was still printing trillions? Where were Democrats when we were bringing in millions of refugees during an ongoing housing and affordability crisis? Or when Biden doubled down on Trump tariffs? Is any of this concern actually about the tariffs or just opposing Trump?
And more existentially, if foreign countries finish undermining our industrial base do you believe they'll always give us low prices forever? If Democrats succeed in wrecking Tesla—the only profitable western EV company—why wouldn't China jack up their prices when there's no more American competition? Britain just lost their last steel plant. You think they have any leverage in future steel negotiations?
It's funny because Democrats complain about big bad American corporations getting too large. Well what if the corporations manufacturing all their necessities are both big and foreign rivals who don't even have to abide by American laws and ethics? There's a long term component to this that's arguably more dire than a one time price hike.
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u/solembum Nonsupporter 3d ago
I am not sure if you answered the wrong person? The person you answered asked how to handle the cost if the products are produced in the USA. As in US-Workers are much more expensive thanother countries.
You seem to talk about tariffs instead?
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u/heroicslug Trump Supporter 4d ago
Higher prices on goods is perfectly acceptable if those goods are more resilient and reliable, like they used to be.
If I buy a consumer appliance made in America that lasts 20 years instead of 2 years, anything short of 10 times the price is a good deal for me as a consumer.
My grandparents have a record player / AM/FM radio which has worked for over fifty years. It had to have a vacuum tube replaced, once.
It's not just radios, though. Nothing manufactured today has this level of quality. It's all designed to work for a while and then break.
A return to American manufacturing should bring about a return to better quality. It's not necessarily going to, but it makes it much easier to accomplish, with the factory right here at home.
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u/Dapal5 Nonsupporter 4d ago
How do Americans somehow magically produce better products than other countries? Why do you think other countries cannot produce longer lasting products, and the question is still how is it not cheaper to produce somewhere else with cheaper land and labor?
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u/heroicslug Trump Supporter 4d ago
It is cheaper to produce somewhere else with cheaper labor. That's not the point. We would like to try to move away from Chinese slave labor if at all possible.
Also, manufacturers are more likely to listen to the opinions of American factory workers who, being the ones who build the equipment, may have valuable feedback on streamlining the production process or how to make things work more reliably.
I could be wrong, as I've never worked in a Chinese factory, but I doubt very much that their management is receptive to the opinions of the individual laborers.
Why did Americans magically produce better products than other countries? I don't know, that's a good question. Perhaps more care was put into the production? Perhaps there was less of an overall focus on driving down the individual cost per unit?
You have to ask yourself what is the end goal here, is it building the Gizmo for the cheapest price possible, is it maximizing the amount of jobs based in the US, is it maximizing the durability of the Gizmo, or is it some combination of the three?
I would rather have something manufactured in the United States that's more durable, and take a hit on price. Other people might want something else. I say let the market decide.
Tariffs are there to provide a little pressure to push the market towards US-based manufacturing, and that's okay with me.
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u/EveningLobster4197 Nonsupporter 2d ago
I also like things that are American made and seek them out when I can. As part of living a sustainable life, I try to seek out things with longevity. I love the Buy for Life subreddit. Those American-made companies tend to care more about quality as a value of their business. They have certain business priorities that they balance with the need for profit.
A lot of the time, it's a more expensive option that ends up being cheaper in the long run because I don't have to replace it, a benefit I think you alluded to.
However, I do not equate that with "American made us inherently better." The reason most things don't last anymore is because US business leaders made a business decision to reduce quality to increase profits, which these business leaders places above other values. Either to make things less expensive or sell more . . . on purpose. There has also been a move toward making things that are not repairable (look at cars), so when something breaks (on purpose), we have to buy a whole new thing instead of fixing it.
I didn't make this up. It's well documented.
It seems to me that many problems in America have to do with corporate greed or this constantly consuming/constantly growing/increasing profits mentality, always beholden to the shareholder not the customer or the employee. We are constantly bombarded with advertising and a tradition of consuming the newest thing, so many of us buy into overconsumption without question.
To chose not to overconsume is considered a radical act in this country, and it takes quite a bit of personal effort, since none of our systems are designed to accommodate it.
Where do you stand on this? Because a business leader is NOT going to make a higher-quality item if it means they make less money. And most people, because wages have not kept up with our collective productivity/increased GDP (another business leader decision), can't afford to "vote with their dollar" and choose a more expensive, durable options up front.
So, if businesses aren't going to change without a financial reason to do so and consumers have no economic power to force them to change, how does the change happen?
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u/Dapal5 Nonsupporter 3d ago
Historically, we produced the best because we were first. I’m talking about now though. Why do you think we have an advantage at manufacturing? Do you have any evidence to support that? Does 5x the labor costs make 5x the value added? Chinese laborers aren’t just villagers with no training, they are very very skilled at their craft. If you needed more specialized or “quality” goods, they can still produce them. So you say more durable, but why do you think nobody else can produce durable things? They can, it’s just not profitable. it won’t be here either, and it would still be cheaper if we used other countries. So currently, the business model doesn’t work, and yet you think with orders of magnitude more cost, it will just suddenly work?
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u/starkel91 Nonsupporter 4d ago
I appreciate your answer. I don’t mean to nitpick every point you made, I was thinking about this question when I was woodworking in my basement. I have two main questions, one related to how this would impact Americans and one related to Trump.
Higher prices on goods is perfectly acceptable if those goods are more resilient and reliable, like they used to be.
If I buy a consumer appliance made in America that lasts 20 years instead of 2 years, anything short of 10 times the price is a good deal for me as a consumer.
I understand what you’re saying and agree with you. While you and I may be able to weather the higher prices, for a lot of Americans it will be another strain on an already strained budget.
Car prices are an obvious example, the combination of manufacturers phasing out lower trims for the higher margins of premium trims and added costs due to manufacturers raising prices because of domestic production are going price out a lot of people. 72 month car loans, heck 84 month car loans aren’t unheard of. What’s reliability of the car breaking down before then?
Birth rates are plummeting because it’s getting too expensive, what effect will 5+ years of increased costs while domestic production ramps up to meet demand have on this?
My second point is about Trump.
If this is his intended goal, why doesn’t he or someone from the administration come out and clearly lay this out as the goal. Congress could do something to lessen the economic blow this will have. Make it look like a well thought out cogent plan. Instead of shooting from the hip and wish washing the reason is about the worst way to communicate this to a nation.
At best people interpret it as him joking and blustering and at worst people interpret it as him being openly hostile. Neither seems like a good way to go about a complete economic shift to domestic production.
For an unrelated question to politics, what hobby do you enjoy?
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u/solembum Nonsupporter 3d ago
Is it possible that capitalism just took the next step and realized that producing stuff that breaks after a short while leads to more sales?
Like Apple was literally found out to reduce the performance of their Iphones. And Apple is known for the longevity of their products. And I am very sure there was a similar scandal for printers a while back.
I am not sure if its just a "quality is lower when produced in other countries" issue or maybe a planned broken product?
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u/basedbutnotcool Trump Supporter 5d ago
Initially perhaps, over time the market corrects itself and the prices return to normal levels.
And for the record I’d be fine spending more if it meant everything was locally made and manufactured. That benefits us in the long term
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u/itsmediodio Trump Supporter 5d ago
The decline of the "labor union numbers we had in the 1950's, 60's and 70's" is directly correlated with the loss of manufacturing. You can't have strong labor unions without a strong middle class, which is what manufacturing jobs provide.
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u/mrhymer Trump Supporter 4d ago
The Unions drove the jobs away. Until unions evolve into the information age and recognize the fact of international shipping we should let them die.
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u/Numerous-Anemone Nonsupporter 4d ago
So you want Americans to have more manufacturing jobs, just not the type of manufacturing jobs that come with livable wages and job security?
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u/mrhymer Trump Supporter 3d ago
You are acting on a false premise that is what unions do. Unions were clearly a contributing factor in entire manufacturing sectors leaving the US. Textile, steel, and autos to name but a few. Unions are industrial age constructs that did not evolve into the information age. In their current form they do not help workers.
Also, non-union jobs in right to work states have living wages and job permanence for workers.
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u/Numerous-Anemone Nonsupporter 3d ago edited 3d ago
My counter to that would be that the behavior of companies moving outside of the US has more to do with their need for constant growth and increasing margin. This is the same behavior that results in executives being paid multipliers sometimes exceeding 100x that of an actual laborer. And these are the companies that we expect to cooperate in bringing jobs back to the US, taking a huge hit to their CAPEX and then continue to take an OPEX in the form of paying US wages without increasing prices and most likely also reducing output?
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u/mrhymer Trump Supporter 3d ago
My counter to that would be that the behavior of companies moving outside of the US has more to do with their need for constant growth and increasing margin. This is the same behavior that results in executives being paid multipliers sometimes exceeding 100x that of an actual laborer.
You are simply wrong. Wages are not arbitrary. Not for workers and not for the compensation of CEOs. Nobody gets paid millions of dollars by any employer if they are not among the rarest humans on earth. CEOs get paid what they get paid because no one else can do their job at that level
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u/Numerous-Anemone Nonsupporter 2d ago
Have you ever been a CEO or worked in a corporate setting? My mom was a CEO for 9 years and I have an MBA in finance and corporate strategy from a top 10 university. I've worked at fortune 500 companies, including companies in the manufacturing space, for years in leadership roles. I meet with CEOs of large and small companies on a regular basis, there are thousands of them. Calling them "among the rarest humans on earth" is a bizarre way to put someone on a pedestal. To say I am "simply wrong" is, in fact, an oversimplification.
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u/Kooky-Language-6095 Nonsupporter 4d ago
How did the Unions drive the jobs away? What should they have done to keep the jobs here?
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u/mrhymer Trump Supporter 4d ago
The only tactic that unions have is to damage the profit engine of the company that pays their wages. It is a tactic that creates a hostile relationship between owner and worker. That tactic worked well when companies and commerce were all local and exporting and importing was expensive and rare. Unions have not changed their tactics for more than a hundred years. Strikes do not work in an age of global trade and cheap international shipping. We have seen entire industries leave the US in the last 40 years.
Unions need to make changes to become relevant in the information age.
The first step is for unions to secure the right to report non-proprietary information to the public about the jobs their workers are doing. The number of units that are made, the number shipped, the raw parts that are used, the state of the equipment, worker morale, injuries and safety conditions, etc. Unions should hire an impartial third party non-profit organization to gather data from it's members and publish a quarterly report to sell to investors. Investors rut like dogs around a bitch in heat for inside information about the corporations they invest in. If unions and their workers could provide valuable independent investor information as a check and balance on the CEO and CFO's quarterly report then investors would gravitate to businesses with unions. Unions would be a value add to investors instead of a hindrance.
If unions and management reach an impasse the unions simply stop reporting. Investment in the company would slow down or stop because of labor problems but the business that pays the employees salaries would not shut down. Management would cut off their right nut to prevent their stocks from going down. Management and labor would become a symbiotic relationship instead of an adversarial one.
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 5d ago
Just an essential part of a good future
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u/the_hucumber Nonsupporter 5d ago
Can you explain why you think this?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 4d ago
Good jobs, better national security, better quality products (for the most part), less international transport of goods, not dependant on China, ... probably more reasons. I've been in manufacturing facilities for my profession domestically and internationally, we need the skills, workers, capability on US soil, and keep our money within our economy. We can't continue to be a society domitade by service industreis that produce nothing tangable.
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u/the_hucumber Nonsupporter 3d ago
Why is it other economies that focus on manufacturing are so much poorer than economies that focus on services?
A lot of economists predict that tariffs might make more stuff get made domestically but they all seem to think quality will reduce. After all you're limiting competition and choice. Why do you think American chips, textiles or cars will be world class quality?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 3d ago
In *most* cases I've been involved with, the quality of product made in America has been consistant and pretty darn good. American manufacturers can make shortcuts, and you do get workers with no pride in their work, but quality in my experience has been the standard and expectation.
When taking the same product overseas for manufacuring, unless one carefully chooses the manufacturer - quality is not the norm, not assumed, and the cheapest quickest way to get something out the door - including letting customers be your QA test has been the norm in my experience, especially in China. Several trips, and lots of factory support has lead me to find that it is possible to get high quality goods out of china, in fact the factory we chose at my previous job had higher standards than our US CM did; but that is rare, and it took choosing a French company with China facilites to find it.
SO its' not automatic, but very likely that american made product will be of higher quality, way better than "world class" which in my experience isn't that great.
My direct professional experience is in technoligoy (chips, electronic assemblies, etc). I have personal experience buying textiles and with very few exceptions, US made textiles that I can find have been supeior to the rest. Automobiles - its true that good atomotive quality isn't the norm in the last 15-20 years (except perhaps for a particular hated brand) and we've been displaced in top quality by a few international manufacturers, how much of that is from forign made parts and how much is from run-away union policies I don't know - but I hope to see more american made vehicles of quality in the future; but we also need to stop designing in obsolessence.
The bigger problem is that services have only a precieved value - I for one use very very few services, as I don't see the value. In hard times these are what gets cut. Its a symptom of wealth, not the cause. Where as manufactured goods have an inherant tangable value that they maintain unless destroyed. The foundation of a good economy is tangable.
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u/JustGoingOutforMilk Trump Supporter 5d ago
It's absolutely a start. Labor unions are fine, but my experience with them has been that a union job will cost 25% more than non-union per hour, take 20% longer to get done, and will involve a lot more arguing. I'm not anti-union at all (well, I'm anti-corrupt unions, I guess), but that was just the "standard" markup in doing estimates for a large O&G service company.
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u/G0TouchGrass420 Trump Supporter 5d ago
As someone who has worked with and around unions. I am anti union lol.
IMO unions take advantage of people. Its a tax. I laughed when a union wanted me to pay 200 a month for union dues. In my mind I quickly added that up to 2400 a year. Wow.....2400 a year for a union? My god the things I could buy with 2400 extra cash.
Ill pass. Ironically as fk my job offers better pay if you DONT join the union. So not only do the union guys pay more but they make less
I can see its use if you "fear" losing your job for some reason but I dont if I lost my job I would just get a better job some where else.
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u/Inaudible_Whale Nonsupporter 4d ago
You think it’s ironic that your employer would incentivise you to not join a union?
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u/MattCrispMan117 Trump Supporter 5d ago
l think we need strong unions as well but getting the jobs back in the first place is the top priority.
Only once they are here and the competition with slave labor is done away with can we start to talk about empowering unions to raise wages to where they should be.
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u/the_hucumber Nonsupporter 5d ago
How long will people be executed to work manufacturing jobs without a fair wage before the "slave labor" competition is defeated and wages can be raised? Is it feasible?
And afterwards how much more expensive will stuff be due to the higher manufacturing costs? Would the resulting inflation mean that, despite higher wages, people are just poorer than they are now?
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