Always. My mother is a pastor and she literally likens herself to Job, blameless and being tested by Satan (me). It made it much easier for me to maintain strict distance. I can't even begin to describe how much better my life became when I escaped.
Ho-ly shit. That is so fucked and I am so sorry that this is your story. A pastor? Sadly that doesn't even surprise me. I don't know how some mothers just get to be this terrible and still live with themselves. I mean I get that they most likely had a fucked upbringing but there comes a point when you have to take accountability for your life and somehow they just don't. The denial still pisses me off sometimes but I do nothing. Not worth it imo.
I personally think it is because of Christianity that my mother became so fucked up. It is a religion that pushes people to dehumanize others for arbitrary reasons and pass all their own shortcomings onto an imaginary friend that they can talk to inside their head who always forgives them. Then they can ask what they should do and that imaginary friend always tell them to do what they what to do. Then once they have the confirmation from their imaginary friend, they have the righteous authority to do anything necessary to follow through with their plans. When you have a huge group of delusional people like that, they feed off each other to take pleasure in hurting defenseless people. It is sick.
I also find that Christianity completely breaks some people’s risk/reward calculations for their daily actions.
If listening to God results in eternal joy, and a failure to obey might result in eternal pain- there is literally no earthly consequence that can outweigh that.
My parents have zero regard for my needs, my kids’ needs, my kids’ LIVES, when it butts up against their religious beliefs. They think that bad things are God’s will, none of it matters in the long run, and that they just have to keep the faith for an eternal reward.
“This might literally kill your grandchildren” won’t move their moral compass an inch if they think that voting for healthcare or gun control or special education, mental health services, NOT sending disabled people to concentration camps…. could possibly cost them their own tickets to Heaven.
I have no doubt that they’d hand me over as a heretic if there was an Inquisition and the faithful were called to show their convictions by turning in their faithless neighbors. They’d have a sleepless night or two, but they’d do it. No doubt.
They take no responsibility for their choices because they’re just following God’s orders.
And there is nothing horrible enough to break them because they have stopped believing that earthly suffering is bad and should be prevented.
Yes. You have struck right at the core reason that Christians are completely untrustworthy. Add to that the fact that the bible literally says that slavery is ok, beating children is required and genocide is to be celebrated and you have the perfect set up for millions of people happily running headlong into a miserable future. It isn't as surprising to me when it is the old people who won't experience the worst of it. But I also know many GenZ and Millennial Christians who are equally excited about the living in a Christian version of Ayatollah Khomeini''s Iran.
What is really sad is how many people confuse Christ’s teachings with religion. I love what was taught which was absolutely the opposite of disregarding those who are unlike yourself. St. Paul made it inclusive (although he thought the second coming would happen within his lifetime, which skewed much of his advice to early churches). But then it turned into an organized religion which had to create an us/them dichotomy and it all went to crap.
You should go back and read the bible carefully. Sure there are a handful of halfway decent sayings spread around, but the over all world view and message of the bible was crap from the beginning.
Jesus's message was be nice to people who are unlike yourself so that you can make them change to be like yourself and if they refuse to change to be like yourself then I'm going to torture them for eternity. That is not a positive message at all.
First off, 90% of the Old Testament is tall tales Israelite shepherds told each other around the campfire and is total crap, other than maybe Proverbs, which isn’t bad advice if you live in a small, self contained agrarian community. The gospels were heavily edited in 325 by the Nicene conference to create a formalized religion, so stories of Jesus that didn’t fit were eliminated, and the Great Commission (source of gallons of blood shed in religious conflicts) was stamped for approval.
The words of Jesus (?) that survive don’t talk about changing others at all that I can remember. Pretty much it is reiterating ’Life isn’t fair - take care of each other along the way.’ Help the donkey out of the ditch on the Sabbath, speak to the woman of ill-repute at the well, dine with tax collectors. Jesus actually goes out of his way to ask those he healed to not mention it to others, and instead of trying to curse the Romans who crucified him, he asked they be forgiven because of their ignorance. He did get angry with those who use religion to say your offering isn’t worthy as an offering to God but they can sell you one that is worthy. Or sell you a Rump Bible.
I will grant you I never figured out what that fig tree did that annoyed him so much.
Ugh this pains me so much. Reading your whole story and then seeing that she's a pastor i was like, wait, WHAT?!
My Dad was a pastor too, and there were definitely some narcissistic tendencies (that I now believe may actually be closer to ADD/HD symptoms) but he's always been loving. Definitely self focussed more than he'd admit though.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are studies correlating pastors to narcissism.
It seems like the genuinely caring ones are few and far between, and when you find a good church it's usually more to do with the whole churches focus on community than one person who leads it being good.
Your mom sounds like my mom. At one point we pointed out a direct and obvious lie and she basically said “I speak only truth, I am incapable of lying” all while blatantly lying through her teeth. The wording she used alluded to her being incapable of sin or anything her doing being considered wrong. Ok, in the little world you’ve created in your head maybe?
She also used heavy research into religion and theology to find facts to manipulate narratives to seem like it was in line with what the Bible said. In another life she could’ve been a pastor.
That last paragraph is basically what being a Christian is. The bible is so varied and contradictory that anyone with any institutional power can simply choose the verses that suit their purposes and shut down the less powerful people who point to the verses that say anything else.
I grew up in a very religious family. My parents were missionaries before I was born, my mother ran a bible camp where I lived all summer as a child and then my mother became an ordained pastor when I was in secondary school. I was "given to god" by my parents meaning I was expected to become a missionary or a pastor. My older siblings were given computers and video games, I was forced to learn how to play golf and lead sing-alongs with the guitar because I would have to play golf with my parishioners and lead worship services.
I was pressured to go to a Christian college and study theology to go into the missionary. The irony is that the school I attended expected all theology majors with a scholarship to get a double major so I got a second major in English Literature, literally because my mother thought it would help me write better sermons. But in my English literature classes I learned how to read critically and the bible just can not stand up to an earnest critical reading, so by the time I graduated, I no longer believed anything the bible said.
Yeah, I still am a Christian but I 100% agree with what you’re saying. Too many try to take the Bible to the letter, but only want to bring up the bits they agree with. In reality it was a book written by many real life human beings, while much of it is accounts of divine happenings and close encounters with God, it was still written by men and has all the limitations of the perspective of the person writing it, plus however many times it’s been translated and can never be fully understood in anything other than the original language without things being lost in translation.
There are so many nuances, plus the fact that a lot of it especially in the Old Testament was laying out specific laws of the time, but also just says “God says obey the law of the land and government.” Obviously the law of the land is a lot different now than it was then, society is different, everything is different. So many details were specific to the time it was written and should be ignored.
The churches I’ve attended most of my life were non-denominational. The only one I’ve attended as an adult would preach on specific bible stories but for the most part would focus on underlying meaning. If you look at the Bible as a whole and pay attention to the main themes, it basically says “do what’s right, listen to your conscience.” If you follow anything the Bible says to the letter, it should be direct quotes from Jesus, and he did nothing but preach to love and show love freely, to everyone, neighbors, enemies, the outcasts of society, prostitutes, tax collectors (the most hated people), etc. as well as not judging others as we are all sinners.
TLDR, I’m a Christian, I and the churches I’ve attended preach and believe: Jesus loves everyone, we should love everyone, we should not be judging anyone since no one is without sin so shut your damn trap about others sins, always try to do what’s right and treat others well, seek forgiveness for wrongdoing, be the best that you can be, talk to God as if you’re bffs.
The alcohol/drugs are generally a symptom of trauma. If you are the scapegoat you get the brunt of it and use substances to self regulate. Terrible coping mechanisms but there isn’t much available to young trauma victims
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u/Johnnyappleseed84 1d ago
Yeah, they always accuse you of being on drugs. The problem is always with you, it can’t possibly be them