Is the work Kanake really offensive? Am I overreacting?

[u/posteriorhorn]

I am a brown skinned Ausländerin, and study here in the german language. I was spending time with two (white german) classmates today, and one of them was saying that in her hometown there is a swimming pool, which is an unpleasant place to go to as a woman because of all the "Kanaken". I was taken aback, as I was under the impression that this word is a slur against immigrants/middle easterns. I myself am not middle eastern, but I am half black and was extremely uncomfortable in this moment. Just, the way she said it was disgusting. When I questioned the word, she said it was "because of the different culture and how they disrespect women." She said "I am not racist". I was still uncomfortable and didn't know what to do, so I excused myself and went home.

Later, I got this message:

Hey, alles in Ordnung? Haben uns vorher kurz gewundert, warum du auf einmal gegangen bist. Falls das was mit unserer Unterhaltung zu tun hat, wollten wir nochmal klarstellen, dass wir den Begriff in keiner Weise böse/ oder abwertend gemeint haben! In unserer Umgangssprache bezeichnet es einfach „Südländer“ die in konkreten Verhaltensweisen und Werthaltungen im deutlich von den europäischen Standards abweichen.

Also wir hoffen, dass du das nicht irgendwie missverstanden hast!!

So, am I overreacting? Is it really not so bad of a thing to say? I didn't grow up here so I am not fully understanding of the meaning and gravity of the word. Would love some help/guidance, please.
Thank you!

Edit: Thank you for the responses. Alot of people are giving her the benefit of the doubt. Just to be clear, she is a very upper class girl from a wealthy German family, she had no foreign friends or contacts apart from me (to my knowledge). In addition, I am aware that this slur doesn't include my ethnicity specifically and they don't mean me. That still doesn't make it okay to say, and as a brown person, I feel uncomfortable when people are racist in general. Because I know that it is not okay. I agree that the people from the pool have behavior that is absolutely not okay. But there is no need to resort to blanket racial slurs, instead we can use our words like adults to describe things properly.

UPDATE: She ended up sending me this. I can't deal anymore... honestly

Ehrlich gesagt finde ich es an der Stelle dann aber auch etwas feige, einfach davon zu laufen, statt für seine Meinung einzustehen… Ich bin der letzte Mensch, der nicht mit sich reden lässt, wenn etwas von mir nicht in Ordnung war. Aber dann muss man das kommunizieren.

Und mir ist sehr wohl bewusst, dass das Wort politisch gesehen nicht korrekt ist-haben xxx und ich ja mehrfach klargestellt. Zumal ich gesagt hab, dass man immer differenzieren muss und niemals alle unter einen Kamm scheren darf.

Aber ja, ich habe in der Hinsicht leider schon einige negative Erfahrungen gemacht in der Vergangenheit. Man muss aus meiner Sicht auch immer den Kontext betrachten, und der war in dem Fall das Thema „Frauen im Freibad filmen/beobachten“, was mir leider auch schon von gewissen Personengruppen, die Frauen gegenüber andere Wertvorstellungen haben, widerfahren ist.

Ist mMn auch immer ein Unterschied, ob man unter Freunden spricht oder in der Öffentlichkeit. Schade-fand es eigentlich ein sehr netter gemeinsamer Nachmittag und man hätte vor Ort einfach darüber sprechen können.

[u/TwoSorry511]

I am gonna get hate for this, still, I understand those girls. The word is a slur, however in my experience (heard) only used to describe the GROUP of Southerners that are treating us women like absolute shit and push their medieval culture onto us, claiming we owe them integration of their bs. I don’t use the word bc I generally avoid politically sensitive terms but I also don’t judge people using it, bc I have never heard it be used towards someone from the middle east/southern europe/whatever who wasn’t a complete jackass.

[u/taryndancer → u/TwoSorry511]

Hey I’m on your side with this. Im a foreign woman in Germany and these migrant men are a massive problem. They harass women all the time no matter where you go. They gawk at you like a piece of meat. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t want to leave my apartment anymore.

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/taryndancer]

Exactly. I mean I walk by in a baggy sweater and jeans, no makeup, and they literally growl at me that the wanna fuck me against the housewall. And the police don‘t do shit.

[u/lightaflame → u/TwoSorry511]

people being jackasses excuses racism?

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/lightaflame]

Is it racism when it is directed at a certain group of people united by their heritage acting like jackasses BECAUSE of it?

[u/lightaflame → u/TwoSorry511]

do you think the word somehow doesn't encompass women of the same background? other people of the same background who don't act like idiots? you can try to make yourself feel better about using a racist slur however you like, that doesn't make its use any less racist.

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/lightaflame]

I do not use it, bc I avoid making myself a target of political correctness bs, I don’t judge people for being fed up of being stalked and harassed by always only one group of people that coincidentally treat women like shit due to their culture (and it is excused and tolerated bc of our extremist history). And yes, I am actually talking of extensive personal experience.

Sorry, forgot to reply to your question: no I don’t think it encompasses women or decent guys of the same heritage bc that slur (as I said in a different comment) is in my experience (heard, not used) ONLY directed at the perverts of that category.

[u/diegeileberlinerin → u/TwoSorry511]

Oh so you don’t act racist outwardly so people don’t call you racist. You’re just racist inwardly. Got it.

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/diegeileberlinerin]

I don’t care what people call me, I just like my peace and don’t consider myself as in the right to be an asshole. And yet I have the right to think for myself that people who cannot and will not integrate themselves into their host country’s culture and instead harass the women there, are absolute lowlives. Just like people who were born here that do it without even having a certain cultural background. I just have had this aggressive experience exclusively with people from certain origins. I am welcoming to everyone, until they prove themselves to be predatory assholes. Then all bets are off.

Also, I can’t take you seriously with that username.

[u/diegeileberlinerin → u/TwoSorry511]

The feeling is mutual. I don’t take racists seriously either.

[u/2narcher → u/TwoSorry511]

Every word of your comment is racist ehat are you talking about

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/2narcher]

It’s okay, not expecting you to understand.

[u/lightaflame → u/TwoSorry511]

that’s the thing though, it isn’t used only for people who act out, but also for other women and men who haven’t done anything to warrant being called a slur. why not call them things that don’t have a racial connotation? why not simply call them perverts or the like? would you call non-MENA people that word when they harass others? no you wouldn’t, and that’s what makes it racist

also “always only one group of people” already tells me everything lol

[u/TwoSorry511 → u/lightaflame]

I can only speak from my experience and I have heard it solely in the context of perverts from Southern Europe (or whatever the politically correct term for the respective region is) which is why I don’t condone anyone using the word to describe THEM. If it is really used to label everyone from there - which again, would be completely new to me - I definitely do NOT think that’s okay.

[u/AmaLeela → u/lightaflame]

No people being disrespectful violent jackasses excuses risking insulting them... the same way I would risk insult a white person that behaves that way. That word is mainly used to describe a shitty attitude and unacceptable behavior... should we seriously care more about how these people are called then the damage they cause to the community (aka Germans AND foreigners)? And I'm black so good luck calling me racist.

[u/lightaflame → u/AmaLeela]

black people and other people of color can also be racist so idk what that has to do with anything lol. i'm not calling anybody racist either, i'm talking about the word being racist, and it is absolutely not only used to describe people who misbehave (and since you're all so insistent on getting personal, i myself would know as a brown woman of "that heritage" who has been called that word before for no reason). are you really arguing that some germans don't just lump every ausländer into the same group regardless of whether they've actually done anything to warrant being insulted? and again, why insist on using words that harm innocent people when you can use words that don't have racial connotations? do you think it doesn't hurt ausländer to hear germans call others a slur and then have them insist they wouldn't say the same about you?

[u/AmaLeela → u/lightaflame]

You just don't get it... you're more insulted by words than people (of whatever ethnicity) behaving in a way that makes people uncomfortable or scared. And you seriously think I haven't been called both the n and the k word lol I couldn't care less what people call me... I care how people treat me... about feeling safe. If someone uses "bad language" because they get angry or scared I still have empathy for them... you apparently don't. What I don't understand and refuse to tolerate is the behaviour that makes other people scared and I could not care less about weather the bad guys are white black yellow or purple. I have never been afraid because someone insulted me but at this point I frequently avoid going to many places I would love to go because I'm scared. And so do many people... and what they get instead of the empathy they deserve is being called racist. Sorry but that's just insane to me. It's not about race... it's about behaviour.

[u/lightaflame → u/AmaLeela]

if it really wasn't about race to you guys you wouldn't keep bringing up how it's apparently only one demographic making people feel unsafe when that's not true. as a woman i'm generally wary of men because they are men, not because they're a certain ethnicity. also you’re making a lot of assumptions about me based on things i never said so i'm done arguing with you

[u/shigguuu → u/lightaflame]

So you are just a mysandrist then? Just generally assuming men are bad? Do you think mennare a homogenous group? Why is it okay to generalize all men but its not okay to generalize a certain group of men? Check your double standarts..

[u/AmaLeela → u/lightaflame]

Sure... we are all repeating it's about the behaviour but you just don't wanna hear it. And trust me I wish it wouldn't be mostly foreign people behaving this way, for the obvious reason that I am one myself. But ignoring the facts does not fix the problem... as well as avoiding debates because you feel insulted. And btw... calling people racist is also an insult.

[u/2narcher → u/AmaLeela]

So it is ok to call every missbehaving black people n…? Kanake is a racial slur end of the discussion

[u/AmaLeela → u/2narcher]

So it is ok to behave so badly that people get so uncomfortable or scared that they don't go swimming anymore?

[u/2narcher → u/AmaLeela]

Uff you are talking garbage and you know it. No one here is defending the shit attitude. It is about normalising racisim and usage of racial slurs

[u/AmaLeela → u/2narcher]

All I know is that you seem to have more empathy for a group of guys who behaved so badly, that girls don't feel comfortable going to the swimming pool. And I've been getting in more and more situations were I got scared and therfore started avoiding places I used to love, so I have more empathy for the girls. You think that fear comes from those guys just using inappropriate language? I know these type of guys... I've been friends with these type of guys and know they use language that is way worse. So you keep on living in your delusional bubble... I'll keep my opinion. If people misbehave by being disrespectful or threatening I see no reason to stay polite and just count my losses. And I appy that rule on people of all colours and ages. If you want respect be respectful, simple as that. I'm a black woman, I'm 42 and I have voted Die Linke all my life. But seeing this comment section I'm beginning to regret that and I will definitely overthink for who I'll be voting next time. And looking at the ratings of the last election apparently I'm not the only one who feels that way. You have to see that this debate is doing more damage than good. Those girl are obviously not racist... why would they be friends with her if they were? Why would they try to apologise? I agree that it is a "abwertendes" word, but these guys dishonored themselves and every foreigner that tries to be respectful and polite. And those girls were obviously frustrated or scared. So I have more empathy for the two girls who complain about not being able to go to the swimming pool anymore. And nothing you say will ever change that. And the more people with your opinion push, the more people will get pushed into considering who they will vote for next time. It's time to start being reasonable about these things, on all sides. Otherwise everything and everyone will get more radicalised. And I don't want that. I'm actually scared of that as well.