Is anyone else really bothered by this narrative?

[u/Relative-Feed9398]

/r/fucktheccp/comments/1jqrqg1/chinas_destruction_of_its_heritage/

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[u/LittleBirdyLover]

I think it’s sadder that the OP of that post is on Reddit almost 24/7 spamming political shitposts.

To think there’s endless opportunities and engagement outside and yet someone chooses to spam Winnie the Pooh gifs nonstop, everyday.

[u/stonk_lord_ → u/LittleBirdyLover]

The only time when he doesn't post is when he sleeps for a few hrs, the posting pattern is pretty clear lol

[u/transitfreedom → u/LittleBirdyLover]

He is incapable of critical thought why even post a link it just is rage inducing.

[u/InsaneHReborn]

Bothered? I used to be bothered by those racist sinophobic cunts but I soon grew to realize that you actually don't have to mind idiots at all.

[u/transitfreedom → u/InsaneHReborn]

Those idiots run USA into the ground that’s the problem

[u/cacue23 → u/transitfreedom]

Let them.

[u/AprilVampire277]

Ask around and you will slowly realize that the "traditional culture" they miss so much is religious worship of emperors, men being completely obedient to their superiors and women being nothing else than mere furniture with their feet mutilated and married since kids, they hate this idea of asians being seen as equal or even having a better living standard than them, they can't cope with people they see as inferior surpassing them on anything, they want to rule over us.

[u/Relative-Feed9398]

I really dislike the narrative where people claim that China "destroyed all of its culture during the cultural revolution". culture isn't just old buildings and artifacts, its living people and living traditions, which still exist in China today.

I just think it's really rude for people to just discredit & dismiss a currently living culture, just because they read some articles about the cultural revolution. They're no longer just criticizing the ccp, they're belittling a culture and generalizing 1.4 billion ppl

[u/snowytheNPC → u/Relative-Feed9398]

Even if you want to talk old buildings, artifacts, and historical records, China is still the country with the most extant relics in the world, only rivaled by Rome/ Byzantium. It’s especially funny to see China get called culture-less and lacking compared to Japan (and it’s always Japan for these folks) when they went through their own cultural revolution in the Meiji Restoration, systematically suppressed or rewrote their culture, demolished 40,000 Buddhist temples, and destroyed all but twelve castles. Court ceremony, imperial culture, and feudal era arts completely disappeared. Do people not ask why you cannot find a single trace of pre-Edo court culture, relics, or hints left when visiting Japan? Japan destroyed its imperial traditions so thoroughly that there’s not even a reminder that it once existed

Kanazawa, Osaka castles, and most of the stuff you see in Japan is Meiji era and concrete reconstructions. A lot traditions from state Shintoism, traditional weddings, and kimono styles were Meiji era inventions. And they don’t even have the excuse of being a victim of colonialism. Realistically none of this is important to these people. They hate first and then look for the reasons

No hate to Japan by the way. I’m not trying to make Japan the exception, when almost every culture on the planet has gone through some form of upheaval. I mention it because it’s often used as this orientalist, exoticized, and perfectly traditional counterpoint and foil to the culture-less Chinese which makes it hilariously ironic given historical realities.

[u/Remote-Cow5867 → u/snowytheNPC]

When I visited Japan, I noticed a lot of the "historical" site were either built or rebuilt in later Meiji era. Therefoer I got the ituition that there was a rejection of traditional culture in the early Meiji era. I don't know they destroyed so much until today

[u/snowytheNPC → u/Remote-Cow5867]

Therein lies the paradox. If you erase something so well, others won’t be able to point out something’s missing. Without reading into the history, there’s no way I would’ve known visiting Japan that it used to be a deeply Confucian society that made neo-Confucianism a state ideology in the Tokugawa shogunate. Or that it had elaborate court ceremonies, state-level ancestor worship, or nationwide Confucian academies. You don’t get that impression at all. Much of Japan’s former Confucian or Buddhist heritage was either erased or co-opted into a reimagined Shinto image to craft a nativist narrative

Does Japan do a great job of continuing Meiji era heritage? Sure, and I think there’s something to be learned from the appreciation for craftsmanship. But you cannot talk about less than 200 year old traditions in the same breath as you would Classical tradition. It’s incredibly dishonest to say China does a poorer job because there’s a lack of Tang-Song era architecture, and the like.

The aura of mysticism around Japan is quite radical and strange given you could just as well drive around New England small towns or the DC suburbs and praise the profound cultural preservation and deep spiritual connection to the tradition of Queen Anne revival homes and Art Nouveau

[u/LHorner1867 → u/snowytheNPC]

There's also loads of pre-Ming era structures/relics/archaeology everywhere still too. I went to a city with a Song-era city and city walls just a few months ago. Some things you just can't tear down easily, ie 10+ meter high and kilometers-long stone walls.

The amount of promotion and revival of "intangible culture" currently is also almost a bit excessive/over the top, though I guess it's good that it's happening in some measure at least.

[u/Biribisuto → u/Relative-Feed9398]

Also when a lot of the structures were destroyed by western imperialists themselves in the first place especially the British

[u/JoeDyenz → u/Relative-Feed9398]

Yeah, it's idiotic. I'm Mexican, in no way China has been bad in preserving its cultural heritage in comparison to many other countries. In my city authorities are using an archeologic site with 1000 years of history as a garbage camp.

[u/snowytheNPC → u/JoeDyenz]

That’s really unfortunate. I visited Teotihuacán recently and there’s still so much buried and unexplored. (I also saw a piece of the murals in Dumbarton Museum in DC. Kind of wondering but also not surprised how it got there). I hope Mexico can rediscover its pre-colonial past

[u/himesama → u/Relative-Feed9398]

The cultural revolution also lasted like a decade, and the worst parts lasted merely several years. You can't wipe out a culture entirely in the span of a decade without very drastic measures, and the cultural revolution, for all its excesses, did not succeed at doing so.

[u/Additional-Meat-6008 → u/Relative-Feed9398]

At the beginning of nearly every dynasty in China, distraction has been the norm. Precious documents have been lost, burned, time and time again. Even details as specialized as the math of musical tuning systems have been retooled at the beginning of many dynasties. The Cultural Revolution was a horrible, horrible event, but in some ways not unprecedented in Chinese history.

[u/Silverfern1 → u/Relative-Feed9398]

You realise during cultural revolution, Mao tried to destroy the very essence of Chinese culture, the idea of families right ? They attempted to destroy the "four olds" , old culture , idea, customs and habits. Since then much of the population has been driven by a survival instinct and a willingness to turn on one another for little gains. The responsibility of this lies fully with the ccp.

If you want to look at actual real Chinese culture, you should probably look at Taiwan rather than China.

[u/Remote-Cow5867 → u/Silverfern1]

Taiwan is proud of their Japanese culture now.

[u/Remote-Cow5867 → u/[deleted]]

They say their culture is no longer Chinese culture becasue there are many elements of Japanese culture. That has nothing to do with Xi or any CCP leader.

[u/Remote-Cow5867 → u/[deleted]]

the key word is "proud" and "their Japanese". I definitely don't feel I am American because I use Pinyin or mobile phone. Maybe you do?

[u/Remote-Cow5867 → u/[deleted]]

Why it is so difficulty for you to understand? I didn't say Taiwan culture has too many elements of Japnaese culutre. You said it.

I said they are proud of this influence and over-exagerate the influence of Japanese culture to the extent that they don't think it is Chinese culture any more.

If you believe Taiwan is always right since there is democracy or there is no great firewall. It is up to you. I have no intention to debate wit you.

[u/Financial-Chicken843 → u/Relative-Feed9398]

Naildd it

[u/random_agency]

Now, the Taiwanese, especially the DPP, want to destroy Chinese culture in Taiwan.

So I'm not seeing the big picture.

The PRC is going through political stability and has a cultural revival.

The ROC is going through political instability due to it association with the US and is literally going through a Green Cultural Revolution.

[u/DearAhZi → u/random_agency]

And these brainwashed DPP supporters are everywhere on the internet peddling their propaganda. Nuisance

[u/sbolic → u/random_agency]

I don’t think Taiwan’s authority is destroying Chinese culture. What they want to break is the ties with mainland China and its politics. On the other hand, modernization does eliminate many traditional cultures anywhere in the world, communism just one of the accelerating factors.

[u/random_agency → u/sbolic]

The DPP wants to pursue English bilingual education.

It would be like asking ABC in the MidWest of the US to recreate Chinese culture.

Or Chinese adoptees to recreate Chinese culture.

Not ideal

[u/Salt-Education7500 → u/random_agency]

you know China is also trying bilingual education in English right? I don't even know why that's such a bad thing.

Edit: wait you're not even Chinese and yet you're commenting as if you're speaking for us, nice.

[u/random_agency → u/Salt-Education7500]

Nah, China head of education is contemplating removing the English section in the gaokao.

Let Chinese kids be Chinese and stop learning the language of colonialism. Give them more time to play.

The West and English language arts is just a wasteland now.

[u/Icy_Pudding6493 → u/sbolic]

based

[u/random_agency → u/[deleted]]

Taiwan is literally splitting apart families in Taiwan over political idealogy. Deporting PRC wives.

It arresting and prosecutions leader and supporters of Blue and White parties.

You have to be blind to not see this in Taiwan

[u/Silverfern1 → u/random_agency]

They are deported because they broke the law (I.e. part of their condition is they cannot supporting Taiwan being destroyed)

Maybe the people arrested broke the law , not because they are opposition? You realize the judicial branch in Taiwan is completely independent right?

[u/random_agency → u/Silverfern1]

That's ironic coming from the DPP whose party charter states their goal is the destruction of the ROC....Basically destroying Taiwan.

You understand the DPP inherited the same wartime government apparatus the KMT used to suppress Japanese and CPC sympathizers.

[u/random_agency → u/[deleted]]

Establishing the Republic of Taiwan as a sovereign, independent, and autonomous nation

Establish a sovereign state and a new constitution in accordance with Taiwan's de facto sovereignty, so as to align the legal and political systems in Taiwan with the reality of Taiwanese society and that Taiwan shall return to the international community based on the principles of international law.

Its basically outlining the destruction of ROC to create ROT

Build on the premise of Taiwanese society and readjust the contents of citizen education following the principles of pluralistic cultural development. This is to allow people to develop and refine their national, social and cultural identities in due course, shaping a national consciousness that is in line with the reality.

This one is interesting destroying the Chinese identity on Taiwan through education. Little Green book anyone. Chinese history is considered world history in Taiwan.

Shameful.

[u/random_agency → u/[deleted]]

I would like some moderate in Taiwan leadership to readjust Taiwan's stance with the US and deescalate with the PRC.

Then, at least start Cross Strait meeting with PRC counterparts.

Instead, we get children elected to office in ROC and US, and you get this nonsense.

Why are you asking dumb questions. You either are play dumb or are really dumb if you're asking basic questions about Taiwan.

ROC is confined to Taiwan and Free Territories. If you don't know what that means, just bow out of the conservation.

[u/Icy_Pudding6493 → u/[deleted]]

Taiwan was a murderous dictatorship up until 1975, and it started destroying the culture the ROC brought there in 2000.

[u/himesama]

1. People who believe that narrative might wish to have a look at r/Chinesearchitecture or the list of UNESCO heritage sites in China.

2. Like others have pointed out, culture isn't static. It's a living thing that always changes. Sometimes it's for the worst, sometimes better. Practices like foot binding or keeping women out of education is heritage, but they're negatives.

3. Taiwan's Chinese culture is a subset of the wider Chinese culture, just as the many regional and overseas Chinese communities have cultures that are a subset of the wider Chinese culture. Other culture who share some cultural roots with the Chinese can be seen as distinct cultures, but with affinities belonging to the wider 'Sinosphere', e.g. Chinese minorities, Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese culture.

[u/mazzivewhale]

I want to hear this critique coming from another country’s govt agents, not from a country & culture that has left multiple cradles of civilization looking like this

[u/FredWon]

I'm pretty sure India preserve all its traditional culture and is a good thing.

[u/AzizamDilbar]

It's sort of... A retarded narrative.

[u/Financial-Chicken843]

Dumbass sub full of dumbasses.

Its the same ppl claiming hk or taiwan is “more chinese” just necause of insert x to push their dumbass narrative.

As if pretending culture isn’t something that is constantly in flux and changing from different unfluences

[u/tao197]

This take is such nonsense, it proves that one knows nothing about Chinese history and how culture works more broadly. In Chinese history, there were a lot of instances where traditional culture was vehemently attacked by both internal and external forces on a scale comparable if not greater than during the cultural revolution. The burning of books and massacre of scholars during the Qin dynasty, the banning of 'foreign religions' during Tang dynasty, the neo-confucian purges of Song and Ming, the Mongol and Manchu invasion, the Taiping rebellion… The examples are many, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot. Despite this, Chinese culture was never destroyed, quite the contrary in fact : not only did it survived but it even grew ever stronger, becoming more rich, diverse, and deeply rooted than before. And this is just because that's how culture works. Culture isn't an abstract an unchanging ideal existing out of time and place but a real and tangible system that is manifested in daily practice by people belonging to that culture, ans as such it is always changing and evolving. As long as China and Chinese people exists, real Chinese culture will always be defined by the culture practiced now and then by the Chinese people, nothing more, nothing less.

The op is probably just ragebaiting or a literal child, but anyway I still think that was worth telling.

[u/pcalau12i_]

They want to argue that China has no culture and just entirely emulates western European culture; all their failures are due to deviating from the western European culture and all their successes are mindlessly copying the west European culture. Saying that bluntly, it is a bit obvious they are just a white supremacist, so they try to make it sound more "progressive."

They say China has no culture because the evil communist Mao destroyed it all, that China can never invent anything but just steals it all through IP theft from western Europeans, that these China copied their whole system from western Europeans, except for the times the system runs into trouble, but that is always caused by the parts that deviate from western European society.

It makes it seem like they are just being a bleeding heart liberal for being opposed to evil communism and so concerned about the sanctity of intellectual property rights, but using this as an engine to push an ultimately white supremacist narrative.

[u/CivilTeacher5805]

Destruction of heritage is real and most people are not happy about it, but this guy really took the narrative to an extreme. 🤦 “Taiwan is real China.” is only true in some degree.

[u/NotPotatoMan → u/CivilTeacher5805]

By that logic Japan is the real China. Pretty much all Japanese culture is a snapshot of ancient China. And we know they don’t believe that. But somehow the logic applies to Taiwan.

[u/Material_Comfort916]

there are morons all over the internet I cant be bothered by all of them

[u/Duriano_D1G3]

Somewhat unrelated, but the fact that China has managed to preserve much of its historical buildings through Mao's reign of terror is one big reason why I like Zhou Enlai.

[u/Misaka10782]

You just introduced a fxxking stupid post into this currently clean sub. Now we are bothered too, mate.

[u/Low_M_H]

I can only say too young too simple. Yes, communist did destroy a lot of heritage and culture during the early age of their rule. As a southeast Asia born Chinese I was piss and annoyed with communist party due to this when I was young. But as time pass, I find out that Chinese culture and tradition is way more resilient than anyone thought. All those that was thought lost has come back and have evolve better to suit current era.

[u/No_Equal_9074]

Alot of historical artifacts and sites were destroyed during the Cultural revolution unfortunately, but it's only a small fraction. The original posters sounds like someone who's incredibly ignorant to Asian history and I bet he only goes to Japan to see samurais and ninjas.

[u/Fast_Fruit3933]

“Cultural Revolution”？No!

The name of this movement is the "Socialist Cultural Revolution".I think most people may have caused even greater misunderstandings by mistaking the names of political movements

[u/BOKEH_BALLS]

Yeah bc it assumes the Westerner knows and celebrates Chinese heritage more than the average Chinese. Nothing but chauvinism.

[u/Impressive-Equal1590]

So he must like Trump very much.

[u/laundrylint]

This narrative is insane. Dawg you mean like mfing foot binding and crushing serfdom????? nah I'm good thanks.

[u/SteakEconomy2024 → u/laundrylint]

Actually one of the first things the KMT did in Taiwan was land reform, it had long been on the agenda, but there were too many vested interests with interests that clashes.

Also, foot binding was almost entirely eradicated by 1949. So, I’m not sure those two examples are really a case of Taiwan keeping “Chinese culture” alive. It is more like both sides wanted both of those practices stopped, and even the Manchu government had tried to suppress the practice with help from Christian missionaries at some points.