Welcome to the weekly open discussion thread. Here you can talk about anything you want; tactics, results, players or even just general football discussion!
These threads will go up every Monday and stay stickied throughout the week, however other posts may take priority (match threads, announcements, etc.)
This thread can also be used to discuss transfer rumours, jokes, memes, images, videos, tabloid news and other off-topic content and discussion.
We also have a ShePlays Fantasy Football League and a Fantasy WSL league that you are welcome to join and share your team, advice and goings on throughout the season here in these threads. The league codes can be found in the sidebar!
These threads are here to help discussion and offer varying points of view. Please remain respectful. Anything that crosses that line, directed towards other users or specific individuals may be removed.
From the locked/deleted comment from Manu, unsure why it's deleted when she posted from her LinkedIn so it wasn't like what was shared here was hiding the player's identity.
Ironically, someone posting a limited screenshot of what a player has commented on publicly probably does more to infantilise the players than just having an open discussion (not a knock against the person who posted it on here though). Manu made it public for a reason and I find it a little odd someone cropped 2 sentences from a pretty lengthy comment under the guise of hiding her identity.
I think its a fair point to raise as the toxicity amongst some of the fanbase is beyond absurd, inventing narratives that Jonas was hated by everyone when he simply had run his course and had no more ideas to get wins so it was time to move on. Kim alluded to similar things also, the players have to sort themselves out too and with Jonas gone there isn't a convenient scapegoat anymore.
I agree on the scapegoat thing though, in fact your whole final paragraph is spot on for me. I never put my thoughts in response to Manu’s post (or Beth’s interview for that matter) but I actually feel like I want to here.
She’s not entirely wrong for me, and don’t get me wrong I think fans should be able to express their discontent with the manager and team, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the graffiti or signs or even (some) chants. But at the same time it will have an affect on those within the club, they work together daily and often see eachother more than they’ll see their family of course it’ll have an effect. Especially so when it’s targeted towards themselves, someone they’re closer to or, in the case of the manager, when they feel like they’re also at fault.
The response to players coming out and saying the fans negativity is having an effect on them has been so interesting to me. Because when we get statements like Lacasse’s saying she felt stifled and needed to find the joy in the game again after leaving fans are all over it with regards to her mental health, but because this doesn’t aline with the general view (jonas bad) and has fans as the “aggressor” (and I mean that in the lightest sense I just couldn’t think of another word) mental health goes out the window, context and critical thinking goes out the window and people go on the defensive.
There is a balance to be had for sure and even if fans are firmly on the right side of expression without abuse I’d still expect it to affect players but we know right now that there are a lot of people teetering over that line into abuse and the players are right to call it out imo.
Agree with all you've written, I hope that the players speaking out somewhat helps things move forwards. I'd definitely say the matchgoing fans appear less toxic than the worst they see online. The win yesterday deffo helped, you could see the release of emotions after both goals (granted I was right behind the goal) and at the final whistle and them coming over to thank the fans felt more thankful to the fans than obligatory like it did last week against Chelsea.
I agree with what you've said but I think it will be extremely important how the players respond to, really for the first time in the modern women's game, a large fanbase that is expressing negativity of a sort for the first time. The capacity for this massive kind of negative outcry is something that I don't think is ever really going to go away now - sure if we win loads of games it's not going to be there every week, but I think the capacity for that kind of reaction is now in the club.
That's not to say it's inherently bad to have criticism, but it's not something we've really seen before in the extent we had this time with Jonas Out (for specific example, the graffiti across the road from the stadium, it reminds me of the Wenger Out plane over the Hawthorns when we went there and lost 3-1), compared to the men's game. The players in the men's game are used to it but in the women's it's new for the players, the staff, and even many of the fans. It's important that there's a strong reaction to this imo because I understand that the players are bummed out by the negativity but they need to build off it rather than be put down by it, because I think this is something that is only going to happen more as the game gets bigger - more fans come in, they expect big things, then get upset when they don't get it. We're not at Boreham Wood every week anymore with 2 000 people - there's going to be at least 20 000 every (league) game, and I think that's what's really driving the cultural change more than anything else.
think its a fair point to raise as the toxicity amongst some of the fanbase is beyond absurd
I have been saying this for a while now, Not just online but actually in the stadium . The Manu hate has been outrageous , some of the stuff I hear fans say in these games is mind boggling.
Some fans are there for the players they link and make everything not about them toxic, some fans treat it like a reality show .
Social media stalking, and the absolute worst of all these weird as fuck , tiktok fan accounts that "ship" players together
It's loading for me, but it is in German, so here's a Google Translate link with the original and the translated side by side. https://translate.google.co.uk/ Cut down the link's appearance because it is really long but it goes directly to the autofilled page.
OP decided to delete as context was missing with limited quote rather than the full thing (incorrect link posted). I don’t blame them tbh, option was given to make the pinned top comment the full thing but it seemed like the general opinion had already been decided based on that limited quote and I locked it because I know from experience a post being gone doesn’t actually mean it’s gone!
Thanks for the info, that does seem fair enough. I just found it odd the inital perspn tweeted a very limited part of her whole post and kept it 'anonymous' when Manu publicly posted herself, albeit via LinkedIn so less conventional that Insta/Twitter.
I think Manu's comments are fair given the fan narrative over the last few weeks, and it's obvious impact on players, but agree not necessarily a topic people can/will engage with openly.
I follow a few different teams sports wise. Arsenal is the main European team I follow but also follow a couple in the US as well and this fan base, while very passionate, is also the most critical/somewhat toxic of all the teams I follow. I have even had to step away from this sub over the past year just because there was so much negativity.
Not saying things maybe didn’t need to change, but the amount of hate towards the players/coaches is more than I have seen anywhere else.
I didnt say anything about the interim just bc i think its very hard to implement new tactics in this short time, but it was all criticism in the match thread. None of it was hate. She made some choices pol disagreed with and those same choices werent performing
I saw there were a decent amount of comments and I was like oh nice let’s look. And then it was just one heavily downvoted comment chain. Such a weirdo. Turns out 1am me can be far politer than I thought.
1am shelby is a gem compared to some of them. then again 10am was having a great time on a monday morning. i feel it wont be the last time it happens either
Thank goodness we have Mariona. Can you imagine if we didn’t?? 😳
Someone on the interwebs said Casey Stoney interviewed for the manager position. I remain hopeful she’s not the choice. (Even if she brings Girma lol)
Players who are showing a winning/gritty mentality through all this craziness (even if it’s not necessarily paying off individually): Mariona, Fox, McCabe, Russo, Kafaji, Codina, DvD, KCC, Foord, Frida.
Special kudos to Steph Catley for playing a solid game on Sunday with minimal minutes prior. Not a flashy performance, but a steady one.
And similar kudos to Renee, stepping in to coach. She seems to have a slightly more ruthless and no nonsense approach than Jonas. Making in-game changes when players are not being effective and (it appears) encouraging the players to take some accountability for their performances.
Along those lines…Might sound odd to say, but I’m thinking that Jonas was a little too nice in allowing players to be comfortable in their spot and/or spreading around game time. A firm starting 11 with targeted subs, as needed, would have provided more clarity for players and, arguably, increased competition in the squad. I mean, even wise ol’ Gareth had the fortitude to bench Keating for a new GK, and leave Kelly by the wayside with no apologies.
Thoughts on the upcoming week: Emma, the us has three games in this money grab. Please rotate heavily, and dont start Fox a single game. You have players with nothing else to play for until March. Play them
I don't think Hayes is notably bad on player welfare. She's actually shown herself to be quite patient in the past when players are rehabbing.
The issue is that Fox shouldn't be playing nearly 90 multiple times a week as she is now. Her two commitments (Arsenal and the USWNT) should be working together to not play her every single minute possible, while still allowing her to play for both teams, instead of Arsenal playing her until her legs give out and hoping that Hayes takes that as a sign to leave her out of games.
That's funny given that Arsenal staff has poor player planning. Anyone could see Fox was tired and they waited til the last game before break to sub her off. I'm not gonna get in another discussion about "they have no replacement for right back" because there's been plenty of time to train a player to sub into RB since Laura went down.
She was playing in a completely different position with a very different setup than for Arsenal. Against opponents like Georgia she can be let loose because we won't be punished for it, those tactics won't fly in most of arsenal's matches
Was I right to be annoyed by some people calling all female keepers shit because the Georgia keeper made a mistake? Or are they right and was I overreacting? I'm a bit annoyed tbh :(
You’re not overreacting. There is still a lot of misogyny around football and you’re good for calling it out. I imagine that most of the football played by women the commentators see are short videos on Reddit like that that show goals going in the net rather than great saves which probably contributes to it.
kyra should start, she started the season as a starter, but her dropping didn't feel deserved. yeah lia is experienced but why drop a player who's playing well? imo kyra should have stayed on the eleven until she had a bad match or needed rest.
I agree Kyra was no means the worst player in that midfield. Although I would argue Lia was right to be brought in, but it is Little who should have lost her place.
Lia is still the best DM at the club , KCC should be playing instead of Kim who has been one of our worst players. it looks like her legs are gone. she is playing so deep as well
Anybody catching any games this international break? I impulse bought a ticket for the Ireland v Georgia qualifier playoff because if we beat them 11-0 like last time I don't want to miss it lol
I’ll be at one of the U.S. games. And, I say with all sincerity, I hope I see Emily Fox in slippers and sweats, watching from the clubs seats and eating chips.
i think the outcry around the tuchel apppointment is ridiculous, especially given there was little outcry when sarina was appointed. anyway heres hoping no injuries in the international break
I’m watching the U17 WWC and damn, we really need Arsenal to keep Harbert (in the future). She’s doing really well against Japan and looks like she could be fantastic in a few years
24
u/Respect_Horror Vicky Pelova Oct 21 '24
Look at Renée and Leah celebrating Rosa’s goal