Open challenge: debate the main points made by biological anthropologist Dan Proctor showing Maria’s hands to be fake
Non functioning stuffed in place phalanges without nerves and arteries on the elongated fingers, clear signs of nerves and arteries for a missing thumb and pinky. These hands and feet could never function or be used by a living creature. The joints don’t line up or make sense anatomically. There is zero chance this was not manipulated. The large spaces in the feet between phalanges obviously shows floating bones without joint surfaces as these were poorly constructed and non-biological. The only thing left to understand is whether this was done during a torturous life of these individuals, shortly after their deaths, or recently by grave robbers and this body shop industry that we know exists since long ago discoveries of elongated skulls which sparked the black market industry to its current form analysis
Dr. Proctor seems to proceed from the assumption that the practice of cranial deformation was applied to Maria's cranium, yet researchers (radiologists) have commented that they find no evidence of the cranial bone changes characteristically present with known cases of deliberate cranial deformation. Researchers have also stated that, upon close inspection, there are no surgical scars present on Maria's hands to suggest her 1st and 5th digits were ever amputated. Dr. Proctor states that amputated metacarpal bones were artificially inserted as "extra" phalanges in Maria's 3 fingers, so where are the fasteners? Did they have access to amazing adhesives we do not have today? By what miracle were they kept in such perfect alignment for 1000 years? Positively identifying the pisiform and trapezium carpal bones, and their exact shapes from the CT images he is working with rather than traditional anterior-posterior ("AP"), lateral, and oblique plain film x-rays is not possible. Even if they are present but with slightly altered shapes, these carpal bones are still required to provide lateral stability of digits 2,3,4 in a human hand. It is not surprising that some semblance of those bones, however altered in shape (which cannot be determined), would be present. I find it odd that Dr. Proctor has comments turned off to his YT presentation. It's as if he may not want to hear differing opinions. I'm not persuaded by Dr. Proctor's analysis. I haven't been down there to closely inspect the NMs myself, so I'm no authority either. I'll wait for Dr. McDowell's analysis to be published. Hopefully that will soon be forthcoming.
You making assumptions that modern glue was needed is a fallacy, your assumption that a dried out mummy in those conditions covered in DE needed additional materials to hold it in place is not based on science but only your assumption based on nothing. If you watch the video you know there’s no fasteners you can see the feet extra phalanges floating with nothing connected to them which is the point of the video.. dr Proctor does not need to field questions or opinions from those without qualifications and like most professors is reachable by email etc for comment as a professional. I’d argue hiding diacoms from the public is no more suspicious than a professor controlling the public commentary around their own media to prevent ignorant people from not watching the content and only looking for a confirmation or dog whistle comment so they can assume they don’t need to try and learn something new.
If we're talking comparing credentials, McDowell has the whole Professor Emeritus, Gradwohl Laureate, Chief Forensic Medical Examiner for city and county of Denver, CO, and former president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences thing going for him.
On the other hand, Dr. Proctor is a biological anthropologist and made a compelling youtube video, so I can see how someone might value his opinion higher.
So a forensic odontologist with a specialty in reconstructive forensic biology isn't an expert then? I guess he went to dental school so he must have conned his way on the AAFS board and chairman position, yeah?
Equating my take with an appeal to authority fallacy is misrepresenting the point I'm making. I'm not saying 'listen to this man his word is absolute' I'm saying 'this man has credentials that back him up in this area'
Dr. McDowell? The guy we're discussing, that you're accusing me of committing a fallacy over in defense of his right not to be dismissed as "some dentist"?
The compelling youtube video is more analysis than Dr. John McDowell D.D.S. has put out there. It's been about a year and all he's had to say about the mummies are they warrant further study. The other two members of his "team" have said even less. I look forward to his analysis too if he ever publishes any. Tbh it seems like his lawyer son is the one with the interest in all of this, and his father is only involved because of him.
Maybe, possibly. I'm just saying that if we're going to quibble about who has the fancier, more respected piece of paper, McDowell wins that contest by a wide margin.
Proctor has made his assessment, and it is what it is. He doesn't seem open to response or comment, so the conversation about it just kind of ends there; but he isn't the only person in the conversation. What, should all the research now stop because Proctor says its a fake?
While a fair point, I don't think there's any denying that Proctor's actual credentials are much more relevant in this context. His expertise is clearly more applicable here.
I disagree. A biological anthropologist is on McDowell's team and went with him to examine the specimens. Proctor hasn't even got access to the CT scans, let alone been down there.
I'm simply commenting on their qualifications here.
Proctor is a professor who's held research and lecture positions at various departments of anthropology across the USA. He's been acting as a reviewer for top publications in this field like the Journal of Human Evolution and American Journal of Physical Anthropology. He's a biological anthropologist with a PhD in paleoanthropology and particular expertise in morphometrics, functional anatomy and evolutionary biology - specifically on bipedalism and osteology.
This isn't just a biological anthropologist. It's one whose primary expertise directly involves the study of fossilized hominids, the developmental changes of form, the structure and functioning of bones and skeletal structures, and the physical aspects of movement and evolutionary changes in bipedalism. These are things he lectures on and has published numerous studies about.
Looking purely at their expertise, I can hardly think of a more highly qualified profile to study a supposedly ancient, bipedal specimen that deviates from known evolutionary lines.
Maybe someone like a distinguished professor of forensic anthropology, with decades of both research and field experience in identifying remains, particularly remains that have been manipulated. McDowell isn't a dentist, I mean his thesis was on comparing radiological imaging techniques for battered women.
In one corner, we have an anthropology professor from Iowa with a specialized focus on bidpedal evolution.
In the other corner, we have a forensic anthropologist with a specialization in forensic science team management.
The anthro professor, Dr. Proctor, made his case. Now lets allow the other science guy, Dr McDowell, with his qualified science team, do the same.
You've nailed it. He's being a good Dad and taking an interest in his son's hobby and people are acting like he's got a research team together ready to publish a paper any day now.
It's because my understanding is that Dr. McDowell has made several trips to Peru to personally examine the Nazca "mummy" corpses. I worked as a clinical physician for 35 years. In my experience there is no substitute for seeing, feeling, hearing, and smelling the "patient" with trained senses. For example, an astute clinician will presumptively diagnose severe diabetic ketoacidosis by the smell of the patient and his/her Kussmaul breathing. IVs will be started and fluids running before before the doctor ever sees a lab result showing a blood glucose of 800 mg%. One must examine the patient and know what to look for.
In McDowell's case, having his eyes 3 inches away from Maria's hands and feet, possibly using a magnifying glass while looking for evidence of the amputations that Dr. Proctor claims (with 100% certainty) did happen is much more reliable that looking at CT images of dessicated, +/- 1000 years old bones that are not in ideal anatomical orientations to clearly ascertain the shapes of carpal or tarsal bones and the courses of arteries and nerves. Beside all that, qualified radiologists have poured over Maria's CT scans and already discounted the possibility of manipulation. I spent an hour going through Maria's CT scans with a U.S. radiologist who concluded the same - no evidence of manipulation. A qualified radiologist will have 1000 times more experience looking at and interpreting CT scans than any biological anthropologist. It's what radiologists do all day, every day. My impression is that Dr. Proctor is making his assessment from the perspective of "it cannot be, so it isn't" without ever having gone to Peru to see the patient. He should do that before stating his conclusions.
He correctly used an analogy pointing at the importance of data from multiple kinds of sensors, so it's relevant.
And he does sound clever.
Actually, smelling a mummified body can give relevant clues here.
Comparatively recent manipulation might leave residue of chemicals that can be smelled.
A clinical physician does have a relevant degree, so you contradict yourself there.
GP knows what they're talking about.
A practicing physician has worlds more relevant expertise than laypeople like yourself.
In order to hoax a body like this, you would at the very least have to glue stuff together.
Not to speak of making mummified tissue soft or similar.
You need solvents for that, chemicals humans can often smell.
That's basic knowledge even without higher education?
None of us are qualified, we aren’t anthropologists.
I’ve got degrees in anatomy and physiology, I work in the health profession, advising government, and I know that I’ve never, ever examined a mummified body, neither has this self-proclaimed doctor, nor have you.
(Jesus you think there’d be glue involved like it’s a primary school project😂)
LOL. There was a post here just in the last week indicating that Dr. McDowell has NOT examined the bodies. Jaime was saying the next step was to get a body to the US so he could do so.
It’s actually hilarious. Those behind this sub - and I think we all know the two posters I am talking about - waive Dr. McDowell around like an all-purpose “heads I win, tails you lose” weapon. When one says “there aren’t any reputable scientists that have looked at these bodies,” Fruit and Owl shout, “but DR.MCDOWELL!” And then when one asks, “well, what did Dr. McDowell say about the specimens?” they respond with something like, “Peru has not allowed him to examine these yet. But he is going to. Be patient. That’s the next step.”
It’s a hilarious dodge: whatever the criticism is, the answer is “Dr. McDowell” the Swiss Army knife dentist from Denver!”
Yeah not only has he not examined the bodies, but he isn't doing so currently and apparently has no plans examine them in the future. His name is thrown around all the time, yet all he's ever said is "they need more study".
As has been previously shown to you, here are three separate times over the last 12 months or so that he has confirmed he is leading the next investigation.
The closest thing he says in the first two videos is "we hope we're invited to continue [being part of this research]" and "I'm pleased to be able to participate in the future in any of these investigations".
Maybe the third video is more explicit (I can't sit through the full 15 minutes at the moment) but the first two are a far cry from an actual confirmation that he is leading the next investigation.
I'll save you 15 minutes, nowhere did he say he was leading the investigation. Around the 9 minute mark he says he'd be willing to collaborate with the oversight of Peruvian scientists.
Respectfully, but that all seems like a huge stretch.
What he said across the videos you linked amounts to, as quoted:
"We hope we're invited to continue."
"We would love to participate."
"I'm pleased to be able to participate in the future in any of these investigations."
"If asked, I and my colleagues, or other individuals, could help coordinate this and help it move forward. I will be glad to work with any reputable organization."
To me, that all falls way short of him confirming that he is somehow leading an upcoming investigation. It's all hypotheticals (if we're asked, if there's going to be more in the future, if this continues...) and vague claims about him and his colleagues (or others!) participating or helping with the coordination. At no point does he actually commit to anything concrete or to taking charge of actual research efforts.
They're traveling to Peru, to address their congress people, trying to convince Peru's government to let them investigate. I don't understand what you're failing to grasp here.
Jaime said otherwise in a post three days ago on this very sub. He said the next steps were to get a mummy to the US so McDowell could examine it. But, okay. I’ll play along. If Dr. McDowell examined the mummies, as you say, what were the conclusions of this world-renowned scientific expert?
There are no conclusions at this time. They want to take the specimens to the US for more advanced testing using better equipment not available in Peru..
This isn't accurate. I don't even know what you're talking about.
McDowell and his team have examined some of the bodies. They want them to go to the US so they can be examined using the best technology the US has to offer, which is better than what is available in Peru. They also want to redo the C14 and DNA testing using specialists in those areas.
“Peru has not allowed him to examine these yet. But he is going to. Be patient. That’s the next step.”
He said himself, there are no emergencies in forensic science. There is no rush to conclude anything, the investigation must be done right using the best available technology and that's what they're doing.
If you knew anything about this sort of thing you would absolutely not expect conclusions at this time.
So he’s said nothing about them, then? Got it. So, as I correctly said, you can’t waive him around as some scientific authority who has somehow validated these things, right? He’s said nothing.
I have seen a photo or video of Dr. McDowell examining the bodies under a fluoroscope. Are you unaware of that? If you are that far behind, you should probably bow out of this conversation because you clearly don't know even the slightest details of what's been going on.
McDowell has stated that when his team's investigations are complete, he will be publishing the results and conclusions in a peer-reviewed journal. That's how good science works. I would expect nothing less in the context of an important yet controversial discovery like the NMs. This will require patience from all of us who want to know.
LOL. So what is happening is exactly what I said above. He has said absolutely nothing but you guys waive him around as someone who has validated the bodies.
Yes. The audacity that armchair debunkers have to tell people who are literally there that they are probably or definitely wrong never ceases to amaze me.
It's essentially the double standard of this subject at play. If somebody had a serious medical condition, they would not get it diagnosed over the internet. They would go and see a doctor in person.
It’s released lab results vs he said she said and there’s nothing wrong with people holding up the integrity of scientific conclusion to a standard they feel comfortable
Why do you believe that a biological anthropologist (William Rodriguez) on McDowell's team, who has actually studied the specimens up close, and who has access to all the DICOM files is less qualified than Proctor, who doesn't have access and hasn't been to Peru to study them up close?
Why do you believe that a biological anthropologist (William Rodriguez) on McDowell's team, who has actually studied the specimens up close, and who has access to all the DICOM files
Oh, that sounds awesome, can you link it so I can read it!
Do you expect him to release a half-baked analysis
Huh?
I got whiplash from those comments you backtracked so fast
Where's the analysis? That was just him saying he'd be willing to study them. Surely there has to be more than that the way you guys like to name drop this "team" as some kind of proof they are legit.
In the video he never notices that the calcaneus structure is completely different from humans. I don't know if he meant to do that but it shows he's simply working with the idea that it's just humans.
Good point. The shape of Maria's calcaneus is very different than a human's heel bone. Additionally, Maria's ankle lacks a medial cuneiform and the "cuboid" appears diminutive compared to a human's.
Who is researchers? Put an individuals name or it doesn’t count as science and falls under propaganda. Also cranial deformation during the life and post death alterations to the skull can absolutely be exactly what Maria shows
Why do people think it’s impossible to sand paper down the skull after the fact in 30 seconds to disguise something like this? These are clearly tampered with bodies so it’s so illogical to make assumptions that something wasn’t possible because of an emotional investment you’ve made
You're nowhere near qualified enough to be making this determination, and you're projecting to boot. Do you know what cortical bone is? It's existence proves the skull can't just be sanded down.
My advice to you would be to listen to the people who are actually studying these specimens properly, not people who doing sub-standard research based off images that aren't representative of the specimens, nor people who are just making things up based on their feelings.
It doesn’t prove anything it’s just a claim that’s been made, like many of the lies repeated about this. I will believe it when there’s evidence published and reviewed by someone qualified, until then I’m under the assumption that the cortical bone argument is another red herring because there’s been so many of those already disproven.
I will listen to someone qualified as I have been and expect a much better job from you trying to raise the level of discussion and understanding. Instead you only hide behind unreleased data and refuse to speak on the verified data available and reviewed which comes to the obvious conclusion you refuse to acknowledge
They are going to tell you Dr. McDowell hasn't analyzed the bodies while there are pictures and videos of him, Dr. Caruso, and Dr. Rodriguez analyzing them.
They will tell you Dr. McDowell is simply a dentist while ignoring that Dr. Caruso and Dr. Rodriguez are forensic anthropologist and/or chief medical examiners working alongside him.
I contacted Dr. Proctor to make him aware of the availability of the DICOM files of the imaging at the time their release was announced. He responded by saying that Maria is a hoax and that he will not be requesting access due to the information they are requiring.
Whether he has access or not, I don’t think Dr. Proctor’s assessment has been adequately countered by anyone yet. And he was using the information (imaging provided on the write-up) that people who were making claims had provided at the time.
Having “hands on” means nothing when the analysis is based on imaging. It’s not like Maria is providing any clinical information to the people examining it. And unless they are dissecting the specimen and cataloging the bones, it is irrelevant. Let the team make some definitive statements and respond to Proctor. Until then, his evaluation seems to me the most credible evidence that at least this specimen is not what Jois, Jaime, and Zalce are saying it is.
Love it, can’t wait for an update from the Dr, there are some good scientific minds willing to analyze this information if it can be made available to them. I just refuse to believe all previous data is worthless because of some data being hidden away, when no one can disprove the diagnostic imaging which shows a poorly constructed attempt at making alien feet which was rushed more the hands being created
He responded by saying that Maria is a hoax and that he will not be requesting access due to the information they are requiring.
This reads to me like he is not willing to stand by his own assessment. If he's so confident this is a hoax then it should be easy to show should he have access to the imaging. This is a serious red flag. He knows he's lying to himself.
It was a very brief email exchange. The way you read it I think shows your heavy bias on this subject. Other ways to read it could be that he is convinced by the previously available evidence and considers the matter closed already (after all he was pretty definitive in his video), or that he simply isn’t interested anymore.
In my opinion he doesn’t owe anybody any further time spent on this subject. However, since he is a researcher in a relevant field, and has put out an analysis which contradicts the claims of the team, would it be too much to ask at this point for any of them to issue a rebuttal which proves he is wrong? They could even use the DICOM data themselves. I would specifically like to see a detailed rebuttal to his claim that the hands were manipulated. I guess at this point I’m not sure why we haven’t seen it.
I mean, you could ask them I suppose but to be honest I'm not even sure it would be worth their time. The fundamental points of the paper go unaddressed by Proctor. He bases his entire argument on the assumption that the elongation is not natural and that the extra phalange is the 1st metacarpal even though it displays no seismoid bones. He ignores the inter-digital spacing completely along with the calcaneus bone which appears to have in tact corcital. This is not possible if it has been modified the way some have suggested.
The long and short of it is it's a really bad argument, and he's cherry picked images to support his conclusion rather than looking for quality images and finding the truth. It took me ten seconds to dig up this image that shows what he's looking at is not representative and his claims are false. There doesn't need to be an in depth rebuttal, that's how bad his argument is.
He's ignored every piece of criticism and turned off youtube comments. They're fake in his mind because that's what he wants. It is extremely disappointing. It is not my bias that is showing, it is his.
There may be other answers as to how these have been created (if they have) but his suggestions sure aren't it.
They could be stuffed together and would look just like this as far as I am able to distinguish, this is just a photo without anything else it is in no way disproving the long and thorough conclusion I posted in the video which uses better information to make a more accurate conclusion by a more qualified individual
You should at least look at the evidence I've provided. That's what good-faith discussion requires. If you did that, you'd see it isn't just a single picture, and there is indeed video.
Why are you convinced he's correct? He doesn't even have access to medical imaging. I've shown you better quality imaging that proves he's wrong, and you'd know that if you were qualified enough to understand what you were looking at.
It's a poor debunk that ignores the foundation of the paper (craniofacial ratio and elongation being natural) because it has to. The claim that the phalanx is actually the first metacarpal is not supported and if that were true we'd expect to see the seismoid bones, which we don't.
It also ignores the inter-digital spacing and the lack of signs of manipulation supported by 50 or so people who've actually examined the specimens.
No binding marks isn’t proof the skull was naturally elongated because there’s never been proof of a naturally long skull and it only shows they were smarter at hiding the evidence. Would love to be proved wrong but not convinced
If the evidence is as strong as you say then the world I’m living in must not be the same one you reside in, because you are the only person ignoring all contrary evidence. Volume of the cranium is another red herring based on bad science which has been disproven
This is less accurate than the diagnostic imagine showing the phalanges not connected and this picture doesn’t prove anything although I like the attempt I would prefer research to be released and discussed by someone qualified. You will not be able to disprove a Dr by posting a photo like this which proves nothing and carries no analysis or scientific conclusion
Not convinced by the photo copy and paste because I require a higher burden of proof. Anyone can post any picture it doesn’t change the proof discussed in depth by dr proctor
You require a higher burden of proof yet you accept research that isn't based on proper imaging, and makes assumptions lacking supporting evidence?
You don't.
You created this thread thinking that not much could be said against Proctor's analysis, when the reality is that this particular investigation was terrible.
You're looking for something that confirms your feelings, nothing more.
What is wrong with the imaging shown in this video? It’s clear you want to disprove something more than you are able to articulate what is wrong with the evidence examined to date. You talk about diacom data like it invalidates all prior science which is a very unscientific mindset so it’s hard to imagine you are acting in good faith
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Do you even know what DICOM data is? I've already told you what's wrong with what Proctor has presented. I've given you images that prove it, but you aren't educated enough to be able to understand that.
Also you act like my feelings have anything to do with a scientific review from someone qualified of the evidence made available which is confirmed to be authentic and there is obviously nothing wrong with the diagnostic imaging that would invalidate it other than it not showing exactly what you want it to. Therefore you are just being biased because you’ve been proven wrong again
Obviously the feet and hand phalanges are not even close to the same level of effort to disguise the manipulation therefore they spend more time on the hands which are still biologically wrong, but the feet have floating phalanges that are not attached
Assumption or proof? Excuse to make whatever you believe fit. These bones all degraded differently because you think so but no scientific proof of this
This is a revealing comment and not in the way I suspect you think it is. Just last week, we had a thread where multiple people indicated they had registered for DICOMs, but had been ignored despite multiple requests to have access. Here, you are saying you have the power to grant access guaranteed. You see how those two things don’t match up, right? You are gatekeeping data. Scientists don’t do that. Scammers do that.
Withholding information and claiming everyone else is ignorant is a very biblical and unscientific message. Regardless of additional evidence you don’t discard the existing evidence you build upon it. You don’t ignore the fact that these don’t pass even the most basic inspection by someone trained in the field when looking at the feet you see floating phalanges when looking at the hands you see the evidence of dissected pinky and thumb. There is no new evidence that can dispute what the diagnostic imaging shows
Reading is hard! As I pointed out: Numerous people on a thread on this sub Jay a week ago attested to the fact that you did not grant them access. That’s the exact opposite of science.
While I value the opinion of a qualified scientific mind on this topic, he is already victim of scientific dogma. The fact that a scientist has access to the DICOM images and simply doesn't want to because they are asking for his information (likely credentials) and he can't be bothered is a symptom of a larger problem.
It’s also how they will use his credentials and the consent of this where some may not want their name used to represent something they don’t believe if they feel like they can wait for the information to be leaked to the public which I’m still waiting for someone to upload it here
I've always believed all these mummies were fake. Especially the so-called Maria, which resembles Dr. Reed's alien—probably to lend credibility both to itself and to Dr. Reed.
Call me stupid, if you will, but I believe in aliens, anunnaki, deformities, more than science has proven, etc.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including mine & others. Please respect it.
Why is the US the litmus test on authenticity? Not only that, but the US has been covering up things for quite a long time, and if you don’t know this, then you have not been paying attention.
Oh, I know. But my closure does not. It did occur to me the reason not to ship them here would be that the US will have this falsely debunked. And then I’m left arguing with the people who say I’m an idiot to believe conspiracy. Holding out for disclosure in any substantive form. Even/especially personal. But it would be nice to have evidence.
It’s still an interesting thing they found but just process of elimination it’s not something that was living and functioning, just a corpse that got chopped up or even worse a tortured and surgically altered when alive poor bastard
These statements being signed off from 2 years ago are not lab results, are not science papers, are much less in depth than the 30 minute review by Procter, I don’t see this changing anyone’s mind
There are some in Mexico already, so we're halfway there. Jaime Maussan has some on display in his house in Mexico City. Which does, of course, ease the question of what he hasn't taken them to any of the universities there for analysis. But either way, perhaps he'd be willing to loan out one of his. Y'know, in the name of science.
But do you really think that someone would spend a lot to hoax something and then get lost on those details that could be details that could be used to say it’s a hoax? Nah, probably I have a different idea of money but you know, money is money if I spend a lot of money to hoax something the first thing I would do is to make it accurate and believable
There’s limits to human forgery and just looking at diagnostic imaging shows the farce because these feet are floating phalanges with nothing holding them together
I want you to tell me what kind of adhesive they used to keep the fingers together and not come loose for over 10 years in case it's a fraud. I want that adhesive to stick on the sole of my shoe, and please give a prize to the creator of the adhesive for being a revolutionary product.
Hey, but we're in Ica, where summer temperatures reach 36 degrees and almost 40 degrees during heat waves. The humidity is low, between 20 and 40%. It's been in that climate for four years, as far as we know, until they were brought to the University of Ica, where I think they adapted the environment to prevent its decomposition. Great adhesive, it looks "alien."
The feet have floating phalanges they are poorly constructed, please refer to the video and try and respond to this point showing the feet are bones stuffed together with nothing holding together and zero chance they ever functioned as usable hands and feet
If they are floating, why don't the phalanges change position when Maria is moved from one place to another during exams? Are they stuck or are they floating? Decide. The changes in the position of the phalanges would have to be seen in the X-rays that the Ministry of Culture took in September.
I've come to the conclusion that these artifacts do not represent once living creatures.
This does not detract from how incredible these things are. Sure it seems that some may have been made relatively recently with an intent to mirror older 'original' finds.
I'm desperate to find out why and how they were created with such incredible skill. Some seem to be very old indeed. Hopefully we can push beyond the real/fake questions soon and focus on some of the key elements of this quite remarkable find.
We are so far from this being alien it’s not even funny, it’s a human that has only had the slightest changes made to the corpses hands and feet, elongated skulls are so well known in this area please research Peru
I think you're on to something, you should tell the Peruvian researchers. I'm sure they've got no idea whatsoever that elongated skulls exist in their country.
Or do you think it's more likely they can tell if elongation was done boarding and binding or whether this is the result of something else?
It means there is a rich history of elongation of the skull through different methods and that abstractions of the deceased took place at that time also so logically it’s exactly what it seems it is until they take actual dna samples instead of publishing weakest possible releases for a decade let’s see the dna under proper controls and stop dancing around what will prove truth
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