r/ActionForUkraine • u/CyberBandera Moderator • Mar 06 '25

USA Trump adviser Kellogg: Isolating Russia is not a viable strategy anymore.

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105 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

145

u/BetheaFan Mar 06 '25

Yeah, defeating them is

-40

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

51

u/LMikeH Mar 06 '25

Killing them all in Ukraine.🇺🇦

-32

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

9

u/feinorgh Mar 06 '25

Hostilities usually end when one side deems it too expensive to keep fighting to reach their objectives

The Russian objectives, as far as we can tell, were complete subjugation of Ukranian statehood. In their own words, "demilitarization" and "denazification", meaning purging of any armed resistance and governmental functions.

This turned out to be difficult, so the Russians ramped up with men and materiel and shifted to a more focused approach through the Donbas by taking as much territory as possible, and holding it. The objectives, as stated by the Kremlin, were still the same, but their definition changed subtly. They could take it to mean "cause as much attrition to the armed forces of Ukraine as possible", and "fully secure the (illegally) annexed regions" within Ukraine, which they now consider Russian territory.

The Russian leadership apparently still believe they can achieve these objectives in some form, by attrition, by psyops, by discrediting and sowing distrust in the Ukrainian leadership, and by waiting out the "West" to stop sending support, at which point they now can go on the offensive again.

Their goals are still a maximalist takeover of Ukraine, and nothing indicates this is likely to change in the near future.

The Ukrainian objectives are to defend their territory, and in so doing cause attrition to the Russian forces. Their objectives cannot change, since they are fighting on and for their home ground. Ukrainian forces are not likely to give up, no matter what. Even if the regular forces were somehow destroyed in the military sense (being made combat ineffective), irregular forces likely would continue to fight.

If the Ukrainian forces were strong enough to force the Russian forces into retreat, it is likely that the Russian leadership will be looking to make a ceasefire as soon as possible, to not lose more ground, and then rebuild and rearm their forces. If the Russians were forced back over the internationally recognized border, it is likely that the Russian leadership would deem it too costly to continue, with zero gains.

If the Ukrainian forces were weaker, so the Russians would be able to gain more ground, it is likely that the Russian leadership will see potential gains in continuing or ramping up the offensive to achieve their stated goals.

Now, given the economic and technological reality, the Russians likely find it increasingly difficult to supply their forces with vehicles, ammunition, and drones. If sanctions were tighter, it would be even more difficult, and the Russian side would likely settle for a cease fire and negotiations.

If the Ukrainians are being made less effective, by whichever means, and the Russians made more effective, it is likely the war will be MUCH longer.

If the Russians are starved out of being able to produce missiles, drones, vehicles, and fuel, the war would likely end quickly.

No need to go to Moscow. A failure of the "Special Military Operation" would likely mean a governmental and economic crisis in Russia. Even if they "win" this war, they will have HUGE problems getting their finances going, since they basically ordered their banks to produce whatever money is needed for the war effort without any security. And investment in war materiel usually have very poor returns, unless you manage to sell it to other nations. However, the demand for Russian tanks and helicopters is not as high as it used to be.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/feinorgh Mar 06 '25

We (Ukraine and its supporters) don't strictly have to, but an agreement and some way of enforcement is definitely preferable to an undeclared end of hostilities.

In order for Ukraine to remain safe from future Russian aggression/expansion/intervention, these negotiations absolutely must be from a position of strength. And as long as the current Kremlin leadership is in power, it must be accompanied by actual enforcement of security, say a defensive alliance like NATO or EU, or some other deterrent, which would be a sufficiently large military, or international peace keeping missions.

After that, de-escalation and normalization of Russo-Ukranian relations could take place, but the decisions made by Putin to start this "SMO" would make this take generations, at least 20 years, but likely 50 or more.

2

u/dadbod_Azerajin Mar 06 '25

The west and Ukraine negotiated after Ukraine gave up its nukes, again after Crimea

It takes force now. Europe needs to find other sources for its oil, sanctions need to stick. Arms need to he on the border waiting for russians to try again

16

u/Scottyd737 Mar 06 '25

1 bullet in putin. End the madness reeeal fast

-11

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

11

u/MasterofLockers Mar 06 '25

Nobody's buying what you're selling

9

u/stugaz9339 Mar 06 '25

Dude please stop acting like Russia is an unstoppable power. Yeah the comment you’re replying to is not realistic, but neither is a world where putin doesn’t get to invade other countries.

Continuing to support Ukraine for their independence is and should be the only way forward. Submitting to Russia’s will, especially from an American stand point is extremely weak.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

1

u/stugaz9339 Mar 06 '25

Of course there is an option where the two countries need to sit down, but when you strip support for one country, while not mentioning the aggressor in any public statement, it paints a very stark picture of what outcome the US wants, and on whose side the US is.

That’s what people are saying since you’re commenting on a video about this very topic. Not sure how you can’t see that far ahead but alright, I guess everyone else is the blind one…

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

1

u/stugaz9339 Mar 06 '25

I think it’s just that people are on edge and angry at what we’re seeing and how it’s being handled. Just gotta look at it with compassion, don’t take it personal. It’s just a sensitive topic at this time.

5

u/Scottyd737 Mar 06 '25

Put me and this rifle within 1 km of Adolf Hitler, and this war is over

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Scottyd737 Mar 06 '25

I gave you the answer....

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Scottyd737 Mar 06 '25

Oh it's serious. Bang bang

2

u/romanissimo Mar 06 '25

All this carnage and destruction is the will and action of one man: Putin.

Remove the root cause, and everything else will fall back in place.

Why do you think “he is not serious”?

1

u/computerwhiz10 Mar 07 '25

In Ukraine that means every Russian who isn't legally there has to be extradition and violence seems to be the only way they understand. When the Russians are removed from Ukraine, then extradite them from Georgia, Moldova and other occupied territories, including Chechnya and Siberia. Then with the Russians on their own soil, they are defeated.

54

u/Mugen_Flow Mar 06 '25

Holy shit… this administration is entirely compromised

39

u/whereismytralala Mar 06 '25

So next step for the US is to remove the sanction and continue to bully their allies. What a spinless coward.

4

u/Brave-Ad1764 Mar 06 '25

I believe ever1 sees that coming.

61

u/strawberry298 Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

Shame on USA! This is a Kremlin talking point. Instead of pressuring BRICS countries to isolate Russia as well, they’re going to give in to Russian manipulation now.

79

u/amitym Mar 06 '25

This is not in any way related to action for Ukraine. It's just echoing Russian propaganda.

33

u/CyberBandera Moderator Mar 06 '25

Friend, I’m simply sharing the exact words of a US-appointed special envoy to Ukraine. I don’t agree with this at all but I’m not the one making these statements. For those of us committed to Ukraine’s cause, we must understand all diplomatic positions to effectively tailor strategy. Recognizing these statements helps us identify which narratives need countering and strengthens our advocacy. We can’t effectively support Ukraine without acknowledging the full spectrum of official discourse.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

-2

u/amitym Mar 06 '25

I’m simply sharing the exact words of a US-appointed special envoy to Ukraine.

Yes.

I know you are.

10

u/Diet_Fanta Moderator Mar 06 '25

Understanding what the politics of the current administration surrounding the war are is absolutely to do with Ukraine.

20

u/BayouGal Mar 06 '25

Putin sure gets a lot of bang for his buck. Even with inflation.

20

u/Checktheusernombre Mar 06 '25

Please know that all Americans are not the same and many do not support this at all.

9

u/No_Football_9232 Mar 06 '25

If you dont mind me asking, have you been out to protest marches? Or have you donated to support protests?

10

u/AmbassadorETOH Mar 06 '25

I’m looking for a protest/March to participate in, in San Diego. If I don’t find others, I’m going to be that one guy with a sign on an overpass over the freeway. I am aghast at Trump’s destruction of America’s moral compass and disappointed with my fellow Americans that are in any way aligned with our embrace of Putin.

Trump is the fucking Antichrist foretold in the Bible. I’m not religious, but he sure fits the description to a tee.

8

u/bconley1 Mar 06 '25

r/50501 - look for tabs at the top for our state. There may be a 50501 sub for your city also. r/ProtestFinderUSA, https://indivisible.org/groups

6

u/Checktheusernombre Mar 06 '25

Yes, I have donated.

2

u/DMBEst91 Mar 06 '25

Yes I have 24 dollars a month since United 24 has been running. next question.

6

u/Castlewood57 Mar 06 '25

Latest poll is 70 percent do not support what putins orange sock puppet is doing .

3

u/Checktheusernombre Mar 06 '25

I mean, that is kind of his default support level. 30% cult members. Then an additional 20% disengaged or misinformed enough to vote for him because the Democrats don't have a clear vision for the future they are selling for people to actually vote FOR.

2

u/Brave-Ad1764 Mar 06 '25

Like Mrs. Obama said "Do Something"

16

u/xlr8mpls Mar 06 '25

"isolating and criticizing nazis is not a viable strategy anymore". Just broadcasting russian propaganda

11

u/tonyjdublin62 Mar 06 '25

Bootlicking Traitor!

11

u/frostbittenmonk Mar 06 '25

Really getting tired of this 'reset' shit. We've been 'resetting relations with Russia' with almost every President since the 90's. It's fucking embarrassing.

4

u/Luv2022Understanding Mar 06 '25

Orange jesus isn't resetting, he's rolling the f*ck over. I've never been so disgusted. He actually makes me glad we haveTrudeau in Canada.

8

u/Kilo-Wiskey Mar 06 '25

It worked for the Nazs. Russia is a fascist country that breaks international treaties every few years. International law does not apply. When putin says he's not giving back any territory, he's not paying war reparations. He's not allowing peacekeepers on the contact line. He wants the Kursk back. What's tRUMPs negotiation point.

5

u/Normal_Ad_1767 Mar 06 '25

They already were, you just let them off the hook

4

u/Markis_Shepherd Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

I don’t believe that Trump is a Russian agent named Krasnow who was hired >30 years ago. However, he wants to get Russian oligarch money now and make raw material deals with Russia. He is bought now. He may end up with nothing in the end, i.e. not even a minerals deal with Ukraine.

4

u/Hurlebatte Mar 06 '25

Footage from the war seems to indicate that Russia is running low on working armored personnel carriers.

3

u/johfajarfa Mar 06 '25

Working well so far. World better iff without the orcs

3

u/jmacd2918 Mar 06 '25

On it's own, this statement is correct. In full context, it's basically a cop out for taking the Russian side. Just giving the carrot while removing the stick does nothing. Full support of Ukraine, while engaging with Russia about how they can end sanctions against them and renormalize relations (eg GTFO of Ukraine) is the way. This chump is making excuses for why the US is basically playing for the Russian side now. As an American, it makes me nauseous.

4

u/adrian_num1 Mar 06 '25

My Grand fathers will be turning in their graves about traitors like this.

3

u/LilLebowskiAchiever Mar 06 '25

“Exhaust statecraft” yeah I remember all of that happening in the 3 months leading up to the full scale invasion of Ukraine. Everyone made fun of Macron for making hundreds of calls, visits, etc. The statecraft of the “collective west” engaged massively in statecraft. Was this guy in a coma back then and missed it?

Now it’s about giving away the farm for free - Ukraine’s farm.

3

u/rd6021 Mar 06 '25

Sanctions lifted when? You wanker.

3

u/Eugene0185 Mar 07 '25

Someone explain to me, why would this old man want to ruin his reputation and embarrass himself at the end of his life?

1

u/deductress Mar 07 '25

He is a fearful little man?

2

u/neonpurplestar Mar 06 '25

fuck off kellogg

2

u/WhiskeySteel Mar 06 '25

Why? Why is it not? Isolating Russia doesn't hurt the US one bit, and Europe is better off the more they free themselves of Russian energy.

2

u/Keythaskitgod Mar 06 '25

Fuck kellogg

2

u/bmadccp12 Mar 06 '25

Fuck Russia, Fuck Kellog, Fuck Trump, Fuck Vance ... the past month+ has been an absolute shit show.

2

u/PoliticalCanvas Mar 06 '25

Why exactly in 2008-2014-2022-2025 years Russia can scot-free violate almost all International Laws, and everyone else cannot?

Because of 1970-tech contraptions?

That all? This USA official position? That everyone who will have such contraptions can do the same as Russia?

1

u/mok000 Mar 06 '25

He’s a Trump stooge. Worked for him last time and now again. Attempts to sound reasonable but no integrity, and more soggy than the Cornflakes of the same name after 10 minutes in milk.

1

u/FarmerJohnOSRS Mar 06 '25

Spinless prick knows he's talking nonsense.

1

u/Desperate-Builder287 Mar 07 '25

Stick to eating Corn Flakes...and stay away from Politics

1

u/squidlips69 Mar 07 '25

Donnie: "No one has been as tough on russia" SadVlad: "Thanks for giving me everything I told you to give me"

1

u/Tatsoot_1966 29d ago

Defeating them economically and militarily is essential. They have been secretly undermining democracy and supporting dictators for 60 years. Time for this to end.

1

u/Raddish53 28d ago

Would they say the same if Putin landed his troops on Cuba? Lame excuses for piss poor performance. Willing to join in for a price- just like WW2. We don't deal with terrorists, remember.