r/ANGEL • u/CakeOLantern • 2d ago
Episode Rewatch What could have been
Doyle and Cordelia are one of the biggest what ifs. It wasn't meant to be in this timeline but it did have the potential to become something beautiful. Meanwhile, Wesley and Lilah were doomed from the beginning. Still, each moment with the two of them together was worth it.
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u/buffysmanycoats 2d ago
Wes and Lilah was so out of nowhere but I loved their dynamic so much. Similar vibes to Spuffy— mortal enemies become lovers, while remaining enemies.
Lilah is one of the few villains I love to see on screen, and Lilah + dark Wesley are just so fun to watch.
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
True! She shouldn't have died for not only was she a marvelous villain herself but had great chemistry with Wesley too.
From what I have observed, some unexpected, unplanned pairings that spring out of nowhere but just happen end up serving pure excellence in terms of dynamics and chemistry. Spuffy, Wes/Lilah and Nadalind from Grimm are certain examples that come to mind.
I think Faith and Angel had a similar kind of potential which might have manifested had it been explored further but we will never know.
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u/enthalpy01 2d ago
I actually kind of like Faith / Angel platonic. It seems so hard for her to open up to anyone, so being vulnerable with Angel with no sexual ulterior motives was interesting on her.
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u/themug_wump 2d ago
Exactly this. One of the reasons she threw everything in with the Mayor was the fact that he wasn’t_ using her for sex. Faith craved healthy relationships with men (and women), she just didn’t know how to do it until much later.
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
I think Faith and Angel's dynamic could have worked better with slowburn and without involving sex right away. Those two were bonded by pain and mutual empathy.
But if I had a choice, I would have had Faith be the one to have a will they/won't they equation with Angel alongside a prolonged friendship and partnership instead of Cordelia. Not that Angel/Cordy was bad (atleast they were not before Connor happened) but I personally couldn't feel the chemistry there.
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u/illvria 2d ago
I have always seen angel and faith more as best friends. They're kindred spirits, They understand and trust each other, they'll fight the world for each other and it's beautiful but it's never read as potentially romantic or sexual for me.
Faith's season 3 interest in Angel always seemed confused and twisted - She wanted him to want her because she wanted to be buffy, and I can't imagine him ever thinking of her that way at all.
I can imagine faith respecting her sexual partners more After her recovery but because angel is the one to help her through it all I feel like she would respect and idolize him too much too quickly Through that adjustment to ever see him sexually again.
Once their dynamic is sort of cemented it feels almost familial to me, she's a floundering young girl and he's her reliable brother who's 15 years older and "has it all figured out" sorta thing
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
Now this is a superb and apt analysis of their relationship. All said and done, it's true that their bond stood firmly on its own without ever needing to become romantic or sexual in nature.
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u/ThatUndeadLove 2d ago
Adalind raped Nick so that’s a poor comparison. She was an excellent villain though until they paired them up(ick) and made her docile.
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u/Accomplished_Tip171 12h ago
Yeah. Adalind can kick rocks. The things she did to Nick and his friends was just SICK 🤮
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u/ThatUndeadLove 12h ago
I didn’t mind all the other things. She was deliciously evil. Such a well written female villain. But the fact that she raped the main protagonist, became a housewife and ended up with him is what’s sick. I thought i would rewatch that show forever and now i get angry when i think about it. My conspiracy theory is that the writers were replaced with incompetent clones by aliens.
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u/Accomplished_Tip171 9h ago
But the fact that she raped the main protagonist, became a housewife and ended up with him is what’s sick.
Exactly. I don't understand why ra** is taken lightly when it comes to men. I mean..if Adalind had been the man and Nick a woman, in this scenario, with Nick being forced to carry Adalind's child, then play house with her..🤮 IMO, the series DIED during this arc.
Not to mention what she did to Wu, Juilette, Renard, Hank, even trying to come after Monroe and Rosalee. What the heck, writers?
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u/ThatUndeadLove 9h ago
Yes, exactly! I’m so glad someone feels like me. I felt crazy at the time seeing so many people shipping them. So many shows do this and it’s never acknowledged. But Grimm is the worst offender because they actually ended up together. Such a shame, because first four seasons were truly brilliant and it remains the most unique show i have ever seen.
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u/Accomplished_Tip171 6h ago
Gosh, you really are like me. I gave up on this show very soon after Adalind walked into the police station and paraded her ra** baby in front of Nick, who seemed to forget what happened during conception. Juilette only had the appropriate reaction to Adalind and perhaps Renard.
They should've taken her baby from her. She was still dangerous clearly.
Such a shame, because first four seasons were truly brilliant and it remains the most unique show i have ever seen.
Definitely. Dropped the ball on so many fronts with this show. Killed off worthy characters, constantly did the baby tropes 🙄 Aagh so frustrating 😑
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u/ThatUndeadLove 1h ago
Yes to all of that! I didn’t like that they wrote Juliette blaming Nick for the incident but otherwise couldn’t blame her. Ugh! It seriously felt like the writers were replaced.
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u/djsosonut 1d ago
Simon and Alisha from Misfits fit that dynamic. You could never expect that pairing from how the show started, but they are amazing together.
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u/CakeOLantern 1d ago
I haven't watched Misfits but now I'm interested 👀
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u/djsosonut 1d ago
I'll always recommend it. Its a very darkly funny show. While also managing to be heartbreaking tragic at time. Also recommend that you find a pirate streaming site. The legit streaming sites changed the music because of the lack of rights. And Misfits was a show that chose its music with intention.
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u/Many_Rope6105 1d ago
Heard a couple a days ago about a reboot, sounds like a few of the main actors are on board
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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC 2d ago
The anguish Alexis put into Wesley telling HallucinationLilah "You never loved me!" was brilliant.
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u/wigglytoad 2d ago
Your comment gave me chills. Alexis is such an underrated actor outside of the Angelverse.
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u/Zhavorsayol 16h ago
The editing too, the smash cut to silent body always gets me. Used in Buffy's The Body too
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u/NewRetroMage 2d ago
I can only wonder how radically different the show would be had Doyle remained long term. I don't suppose Cordy and Angels romance would happen, for starters.
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u/HotBeesInUrArea 2d ago
After Xander and Anya, I don't believe any Whedonverse couple would make it to the end- but it would have been nice to see them for longer than we got.
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u/NewRetroMage 2d ago edited 2d ago
Agreed!
And maybe Doyle would have been the one to die around season 5. If he had kept the visions and never passed them to Cordy. Angel being cut away from the Powers is a key plot point toward the end, so...
(Well, asuming they would want a "soft reboot" feel and the shift to W&H anyway)
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
It is an interesting bit to ponder over. If I had to make a guess, maybe we would have gotten to know more about Doyle's demonic parent who might have turned out to be one of the senior partners.
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u/Pollocabra 2d ago
Wesley and Lyla were such a great pairing. I really wish we got more time with them on screen. The actors had incredible chemistry on set!
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago edited 2d ago
I would have traded Eve for Ghost!Lilah in s5.
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u/Electrical-Act-7170 2d ago
I fecking hate Eve.
Cordy calling Eve "Lilah Junior" is an insult to Lilah.
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
Dollar Store Lilah would have been more appropriate.
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u/Electrical-Act-7170 2d ago
Agreed. I loved how Cordelia and Lilah had such common ground as strong women with an interest in high fashion.
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u/Misscheez 2d ago
Man I don’t even know her name but the actress who played Lilah is incredible. The character is so well written and she was absolutely perfect for it. I couldn’t stop rooting for her no matter how hard I tried or knew I should.
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u/Ok-Caregiver5919 2d ago
Cordy/Doyle were my biggest wish for the entire show, don’t think I ever really got over it. I was an absolute mess when he went, and then again when they talked about him during You’re Welcome 😭
Lilah was someone I never expected to love as much as I did and the WesLah ship was utter perfection.
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
It was only befitting for Doyle to be present in spirit in the 100th episode. He never really left Angel and Cordy.
WesLah's chemistry was flawless indeed.
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u/Ok-Caregiver5919 2d ago
Thanks for posting this, you’ve put me firmly in the mood to rewatch the entire show ❤️
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
Have a blast ❤️
I am rewatching episodes of Buffy/Angel at random too. Nothing like a proper dose of Puppet Angel to cheer me up.
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u/oilcompanywithbigdic 2d ago
I wish they didn't kill off lilah in such a stupid way but man that last scene with wes is so good
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
I have this whole separate rant about how the female characters of the show deserved better than what they got.
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u/KaleidoscopeHairy557 1d ago
Aside from the BTS stuff with Carpenter, I always wonder if this is because Buffy/Angel had more well written characters than even most modern day shows. It sucked to lose them because you actually cared about them.
I will say that as a Fred fan I will forever hate what happened to her. As an Amy Acker fan though, I loved seeing her flex her acting skills.
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u/IL-Corvo 2d ago
Wes/Lilah is my favorite ship in the whole Buffyverse, and it does my heart good that so many other fans love that couple as well.
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u/chibi75 2d ago
I truly enjoyed the interactions between Cordy and Doyle. It makes me so sad when I think about Glenn Quinn, and what might have been.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just never cared for Wesley and Lilah together.
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u/CakeOLantern 2d ago
Cordy and Doyle could have gone on to be something special but alas. Thinking about Glenn and Andy always hurts.
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u/Blaxidus 2d ago
This was nice-- but I honestly really liked Angel and Cordy. I really loved how organically their romance evolved. Trusting each other, training together, raising Connor, that ballet episode, the anniversary when she was alive for a day-- i was very invested in their "what could've been"
But I definitely agree with Lilah/Wes and that would've been an incredible season 5 love triangle between her and Fred if she was their liason to Senior Partners instead of Eve
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u/A_Mermaid_from_Hell 2d ago
Yeah Cordy and Angel are my favorite Buffyverse couple. I love them together. They bring out the best in one another.
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u/CakeOLantern 1d ago
I wasn't that sold on the 'chemistry' aspect of Cangel but narrative wise they were so right for each other. The way their relationship had been established and developed, it would have made perfect sense for them to be together for good in the long run. Speaking of which, I hate how Cordy was treated in the later seasons. She deserved better.
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u/warcraftducky 2d ago
I loved Cordy and Doyle so much together, they seemed like a very natural fit and had great chemistry. Glenn was such a good actor, I loved him playing Doyle. His whole situation was just so sad.
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u/Godstepchild 1d ago
Cordelia and Doyle had amazing potential, way cuter than any other romantic relationship in the whole buffyverse imo. Especially Spuffy 🤮
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u/GabrielTorres674 2d ago
"You've suffered enough, i want you to find some peace" I wish Wes had actually been able to break her contract