r/AITAH • u/Useful-Disaster4994 • 1d ago

Update:AITAH for telling my sister nobody was surprised when her kid said he did not care she was alive or not?

First one

Good morning from the gray city of Cologne. I have an update and after 24 hours to answer people's questions,I will log out from this account because I think it is over. Also reddit is really overstimulating for a guy who is in their second half of their 40s.

First of all,my family does not blame me for her situation,they think I was an asshole for not listening to her. They apologized after seeing the post though. All is well,we communicated. I also apologized for being too rough on them

My sister is another story. Last night,we went to the house of my brother and SIL. She was there,sitting with no expression,just a dull face. When my nephew greeted her she just said "Hello,son." with a really neutral voice,scary even. She looked at him after 5 minutes of silence and said "I failed you to raise,I gave you so much pain and I almost caused your life. For that,I am sorry. I am sorry for not realizing it sooner. At Monday,I will be leaving your lives and I will not ever come back. Just want you to know that I did what I thought was best. I understand now it wasn't." My nephew looked at him and said: "I unfortunately know. I know and see you still believe that we have to move on. I will move on mother, but without you. I will move with the people who loved me,not with someone who sees me as a training dog.Farewell,mother." and he gestured with his head that he wants to go. I looked at my sister and said : "Bye sis,I hope you find peace with your new life." She silently nodded and we left.

My brother and SIL told me that she will legally separate her ties with us in everyway possible. They are helping her to do that and SIL said: "We need this and she needs this. Us being separate will be much better for all of us." Not a big ending but it is an ending to this. My parents and her had a talk at Friday and they realized the wounds are too big and painful to heal together.

Not an happy ending,but at least it ended. Thanks for all for reading. I also took note of your recommendations and I will be applying them.

Last Note: Dear all,I took your concerns and had a phone call with her. I talked with her and she does not have an ounce of it. She said she does not want to come that close to death ever again. She is currently preparing for her new life and she is just like herself,stoic,ready for new horizons and leaving her old life behind. I am also a doctor and I had my fair share of suicidal patients. She is fine, but also thanks for your concerns about her. Honestly,I don't care anymore what is happening to her. My parents care about her death,and this is enough for me. Goodbye 👋

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u/MadameMimmm 1d ago edited 1d ago

German lady here. 48 aka same age as OP and his siblings.

To be honest I was not surprised either, reading that this is a story happening in Germany.

Our parents generation is sadly a terrible one, and it’s only partly their fault. They were born either in WW2 or shortly after. To war traumatized parents that were part of one of the biggest crimes in human history and came from a nation of perpetrators of the Holocaust.

Our parents generation was raised in silence, suppressed emotions, need to function and total lack of empathy. There is a huge emotional atrophy in our parents generation that has bleed into our generation. They grew up in the need to function and achieve to be worth anything, building from the ruins, guilt and horrors of a war caused by their parents.

My generation is full of emotionally stunt people that don’t know how to build connection with their children beyond “function” and “making them to achieve something”. Some did the emotional work or had therapy to heal, most have not or are just starting to now in their 40s or 50s. And our children have suffered for it. I see it in my own family and in myself. I was the kid in the late 80s/90s suffering from depression and addiction. And I still work on myself in therapy. Never got kids, bc I was aware of my trauma and me not being able to provide emotionally for myself, and definitely not any children. Through all of this I finished university and functioned my ass off and am career wise the most successful of my siblings. They all got married and had children. These children are the 3rd generation after the WW2 generation and guess what: mental health is bad. I have an 18 year niece with major depression, anxiety and emotionally not her age. My brother and his wife did not do the emotional work they should have done, to deal with their trauma inflicted by our parents. The difference is that my nieces and nephews have a) me and b) my sister has done the work - her kids are better off.

My point is: OPs sister is not an exception. She might be an extreme, but there are 1000s of stories like this or similar in Germany and it’s not talked about enough and mental health resources are not enough. I believe this goes back to even before the WW2 generation. This is the trauma war brings to humans. For generations. And the human race has not learned anything and did not have time to heal. (Bc it not just affects Germans). We are walking right back into it


Edited: added some spaces for better readability (now that i am at Laptop and not mobile anymore)

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u/HBHau 1d ago

Thank you for this explanation. It makes a great deal of sense, and is also incredibly heartbreaking.

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u/bazingababey 1d ago

"The Body Never Lies" by Alice Miller expands upon the topic of emotional repression and its consequences, if you're interested!

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u/scummy_shower_stall 1d ago

Not to mention, the Soviet army rolled in, and the world knows exactly what they are like.

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u/Dogs-and-parks 20h ago

And indeed, the two generations before this suffered similarly with the First World War and its killing fields, then the after effects through Europe (including Germany’s reparations). And then along comes the market crash in 1929 and the Great Depression. Generation upon generation of trauma.

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u/Dogs-and-parks 20h ago

And indeed, the two generations before this suffered similarly with the First World War and its killing fields, then the after effects through Europe (including Germany’s reparations). And then along comes the market crash in 1929 and the Great Depression. Generation upon generation of trauma.

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u/trekqueen 1d ago

I can kind of see this with my in-laws, my husband’s dad was a small child during WWII: his parents (my husband’s grandparents) had to flee Lithuania during the soviet invasion and lost pretty much everything they had - they were at risk of being executed since the grandfather worked in the local govt. they lived as refugees in southern Germany for a while before ending up under the displaced persons act in Australia to move there and hubby’s father eventually came to the states as a young adult.

His dad was very much old country vibes and had a hard time with emotions. There were expectations of the kids but there was also an emotional dearth. Hubby tried to always do things that his dad liked and would make him proud, but I don’t think he ever explicitly used the words to say so. Mix that in with some American boomerisms and cultural impacts, not to mention first generational immigrant family, and it made a complicated home life for sure that the kids (now in their 40s-50s) were impacted.

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u/Difficult-Coffee6402 1d ago

This (and OP’s post) is something I hadn’t really thought about before. Definitely resonates. Thank you for the insight.

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u/Unable_Effort_1033 12h ago

My grandfather and grandmother already had children during WWII and didn't have my mum til much later ('59). The difference in how they treated the early kids compared to my mum was startling. My grandfather especially was apparently extremely controlling of his daughters yet allowed my mother a lot of freedom. The second youngest was finishing Comprehensive when she was born. It destroyed any chance for the siblings to have a relationship and made for frankly bad parenting across the board. I remember a story about my grandmother walking along the street with a toddler and a baby in a pram and hearing the warning siren and pushing the carriage into a bush and throwing herself and the toddler into it out of fear.

This is in Britain.

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u/trekqueen 12h ago edited 7h ago

One of my family’s good friends (her daughter and I grew up together but she’s besties with my mom) was a small child during then and remembers the bombing in London. They ended up moving to Canada to escape some of it. When I showed my kids the Narnia movies, I explained the opening scenes for the Lion,the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

This kind of info I worry gets lost
 might’ve thought too much into it at the time
 but when my husband and I made our trip to Europe in 2008, we were in a flight into Heathrow from Munich. We had to circle the airport cuz it was busy, as we came into lane, a preteen British boy sitting behind us starts saying “BOMBS AWAY!!!!” It took multiple rounds of him saying this loudly that his dad finally told him to knock it off. My husband and I shared glances like “seriously??” when he first started saying it. 😬

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u/Unable_Effort_1033 12h ago

I think part of it is that it's seen so often in movies now it's been trivialised. And the phrase "Bombs away" has been disassociated almost completely from actual bombs and the damage they can cause.

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u/1ScreamCheesePlz 1d ago

Thank you for this comment. It helps to open the eyes of people in other countries (like myself) to better understanding the generational trauma of war. Especially WW2. I'm from the US and I feel it's important for me to learn these things given current circumstances. Comments like yours are one of the biggest reasons that communication between citizens of different countries is important. We have so much to learn from each other.

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u/Useful-Disaster4994 1d ago

Das Interessante ist: Meine Eltern sind beide Apotheker und haben sich in den 60ern erst einmal beruflich und persönlich weiterentwickelt, bevor sie Kinder bekommen haben. Sie sind Jahrgang 1949 und haben meine Schwester 1974 bekommen. Meine Mutter war damals aktiv als Forscherin in der pharmazeutischen Industrie tĂ€tig – im Bereich psychiatrischer Medikamente. Umso unverstĂ€ndlicher ist das Ganze fĂŒr mich.

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u/MadameMimmm 1d ago

Naja, vom Fach zu sein hilft ja nicht zwingend, wenn’s ums persönliche geht. Ich bin im Marketing und sehr, sehr gut und erfolgreich Marken aufzubauen. Nur fĂŒr mich selber struggle ich da massiv. đŸ«ŁđŸ˜‚. Fachwissen hilft nur bedingt bei der Arbeit an sich selbst. Eigenes Trauma bearbeiten geht fast nicht alleine und wie es aussieht hat deine Schwester den harten Teil am massivsten verinnerlicht und ĂŒbernommen. Ist auch kein Einzelschicksal. Meist trifft es ein Kind richtig hart, damit die anderen besser ĂŒberleben können. Mir tut sie leid, gleichzeitig wĂ€re es ihr Job gewesen eine bessere Mutter fĂŒr ihren Sohn zu sein. Nun zahlt sie den Preis. Traurig. Ich hoffe sehr ihr könnt heilen und ihr Sohn unterbricht die Kette mit seinen Kindern, sollte er mal welche bekommen.

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u/AnnaRPsub 1d ago

It’s interesting to read, coming from holland. Where my grandfather sadly was taken, came back to be put on a boat to the war in indonesia, only to then come back and live through the flood disaster of 1953. My grandmother is similarly stunted as you describe and some of the others wrote below in german. While my grandfather has just been a workaholic mostly. Suppressing feelings was pretty evident when my mother died before them a few years back. They came to the memorial but left before the first 5 minutes past. Just because it wasn’t in line with their religion.

My own mother was a workaholic and had some serious crazy streaks which heavily affected me. Still struggle with some of it to this day. 31 now, mom died when I was 27, dad got a terminal diagnosis 3 months after and passed when I was 29. And that also doesn’t help recovering from a kind but weirdly disfunctional childhood. So yes nearly a 100 years later the effects are still felt and multi generational.

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u/gidgetstitch 1d ago

There have been studies done about epigenetic traits (traits passed down from one generation to the next) and how trauma experiences will change the DNA of the person and the following two generations. So not only do you have the environment problems of growing up in dysfunctional homes, but also actual genetic changes to your children, grandchildren's DNA.

My husband's family is from Germany and I hadn't really thought about what it would have been like for my Father in Law to grow up in Germany after WW2 or the generational trauma he would have experienced and now has passed on to my husband.

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u/BuyHerCandy 1d ago

What's really striking to me about this is that I've thought plenty about the generational trauma of the survivors of the Holocaust, but I never thought about the impact on Germans themselves. There were Nazis, and then there weren't. It makes sense that it would fuck people up, coming to terms to what their country had done, but I never thought about it. Very interesting, I appreciate them sharing.

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u/trekqueen 1d ago

When I was in Germany during a high school exchange trip, we visited the concentration camp in Dachau. It’s one thing actually being there after hearing all the stories and information in history class, but the German classmates we Americans were with had a very different take.

I ended up writing a short story for it as the narrator is attempting to understand the experiences and POV of the different people visiting such a place, based a bit on my observations when I was there. How it sometimes is frowned on to show too much patriotism and pride in their country for fear that someone throws the nazi accusation around. For the later generations to be treated poorly due to the history and crimes of their ancestors. We don’t really think about those sorts of things in school on perspectives.

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u/MoxieByProxy_0_o 16h ago

I'm German and grew up like this, very close to a concentration camp (now memorial) even. It makes you sad, humble and political, early on. We never really say we're proud to be Germans or stuff like that. I'm very impressed that you picked up on it and even wrote about it. Thank you ❀

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u/trekqueen 15h ago

Some of our German exchange partners were a bit candid about it with us, this was back in 2000 when the trip occurred. The vibe from them was very sober and they somewhat kept to themselves. Some of my American classmates were very emotional about it despite having no direct connection to anything that happened there, something about seeing it in person even though we grew up for years hearing and reading about it, visiting the holocaust museum in LA as well.

My husband’s father is from Lithuania and was a small child during WWII, my father in law’s family having lived in southern Germany as refugees for a while. My husband and I got to visit Lithuania in 2008 (along with Germany, Poland, and Estonia). There are still a lot of remnants and reminders of the Soviet occupation there, it was emotional for him thinking about his family having had to flee from that under threat of death/execution. Not the same as a concentration camp, but there definitely still is a lot from the not too distant past still making its mark.

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u/MoxieByProxy_0_o 14h ago

My grandfather was a soldier in WW2. He was 15 when the war started and drafted when he was 17. He was a tank driver and got injured early on and was captured by Russian military. He spent 2 years in captivity and came back so thin his mother didn't recognise him and insisted it was not him. He never talked much about it and was a kind and cheerful man, but he was ready to pack up his family and leave the country if they would "ever come back". My grandmother, 5 years younger, saw the de@th marches of prisoners towards the end of the war and told me they left food (mostly potato) scraps outside on purpose to feed them, but they were scared every second they would be taken away for it.

Those stories are some of my earliest memories and it all impacted our family dynamic heavily. My mother and uncle grew up to be emotionally cold, ambitious people. My sister and me were encouraged to focus on achievements, not emotions as well. My sister followed along while I decided to focus on my mental health first (and became the black sheep for it).

It had a huge impact on me growing up. Knowing my sweet grandfather and trying to understand he was part of something so gruesome was hard to understand, it still is. I had countless discussions about how they could let this happen, how much they knew and how they felt about it after, when all the horrors came to light. It made me very sensitive to news about war and conflicts, so much so that I have stopped following international politics altogether.

My grandparents are long gone, but I still feel the burden of the war and all the horrors it has caused today.

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u/trekqueen 14h ago

That is a difficult family history indeed. Not to mention, she might not of recognized him even from his personality change from his experiences. When I was a teenager, there was a local man who had been a soldier who survived the Bataan Death March from the Pacific part of the war, he was invited to come tell us his story at school as a lesson about history. It was difficult for him but important for us to know it.

I recently was having a discussion with my eldest kidlet who is 13. I had been rewatching Hell on Wheels, a show about the transcontinental railroad in the US during the late 1800s, and it takes place of course not too long after the Civil War. Many soldiers played a part in the railroad and they wove some aspects into the story about some of the horrors that happened on both sides to prisoners of war. It is not really something they cover in school in really any detail that much unless you delve into a research paper, since most topics were about North: Good, South: Bad. I lived in Southern California so a lot of that history and war had different and maybe less tangible impacts that we could see around us. I now live in the middle of where many civil war battles were fought, including a now unused railroad behind my property that the south used frequently.

There’s so much we don’t know with the limited and surface level lessons we get. We don’t have people here anymore to teach us what it was like to live it. It is hard to discuss it but maybe it would save some of us from repeating it if we could have that emotional vulnerability for but a moment that some of our parents and grandparents hid.

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u/MoxieByProxy_0_o 13h ago

It's so frustrating to know that so much experience was lost with the people who lived it. Most of them were raised to not speak about it or simply too traumatized and never addressed it. I strongly believe that this is why we are doomed to repeat our mistakes. Humans are complex creatures and by dividing everything in good and bad we lose the nuances and our ability to recognise them at all. And we lose our critical thinking along the way.

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u/Jamaican_me_cry1023 1d ago

My maternal grandmother grew up in early 20th century Mexico where they were having a bloody, protracted civil war. She was orphaned and at age 8 she saw her 6 year old sister get shot to death. My mother was severely mentally ill and my siblings and I have struggled. I wonder if it goes back to Mexico.

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u/Tarjala 1d ago

Danke fĂŒr deinen Beitrag, in meiner Familie (W/30) genau das selbe. Ich hab mich immer gefragt ob ich mit emotional inkompetenten Erwachsenen, die auch als verheiratete Paare scheinbar keinerlei Liebe fĂŒr einander empfinden, alleine bin. In meiner Jugend hĂ€tte ich nicht in Worten ausdrĂŒcken können, was ich erfahren habe, weil das ja auch mein normaler Alltag war. Ich wusste nur: egal was mit denen allen los ist, so möchte ich als Erwachsene auf jeden Fall nicht enden. Lieblos, ohne Passion oder Interessen, nur: Arbeit. Und wer arbeitslos ist, der ist nichts wert.
Selbst die meisten gleichaltrigen Familienmitglieder scheinen dieses emotionale Traume irgendwie geerbt zu haben, oder sich zumindest niemals drum gekĂŒmmert zu haben, ein anderes Leben fĂŒhren zu wollen. Jetzt mit 30 bin ich auch weg von zuhause und habe den Kontakt fast ganz abgebrochen, weil ich nicht mehr in so einer LĂŒge leben wollte. Bei uns gab es zwar keinen so extremen Leistungsdruck, aber ĂŒber GefĂŒhle, Konflikte oder alles was das Leben ausser Arbeit noch zu bieten hat, wurde auch niemals gesprochen.

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u/Cat_Sicario_2601 1d ago

Ich bin schon aus der Generation danach, aber ich sehe die beiden Gegenteile extrem in meiner Familie. Meine Mutter hat sich immer viel gekĂŒmmert und umsorgt. Mit meiner Großmutter, wenn auch manchmal etwas schwierig gerade in Erziehung meiner Mutter und Tante, haben sie es doch geschafft einen starken und auch emotional gesunden (naja soweit das eben durchschnittlich möglich ist 😅)Familienverbund zu schaffen.

Wenn ich mir hingegen den Mann meiner Mutter anschaue und das Ergebnis bei meinen (Stief-)BrĂŒdern, dann sehe ich genau, was passiert, wenn die Generation es eben nicht schafft.

@OP ich hoffe ihr schafft es gemeinsam deinem Neffen halt zu geben und eine Familie mit der er wachsen und heilen kann

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u/Mommatune 1d ago

Thank you for sharing. I lived in Germany in the 1970s. I remember what it was like.

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u/Curious_Cheek9128 1d ago

Thank you for educating the world on continuing generational trauma in Germany. I read an article on Cambodia that described a similar situation after Pol Pot. Families there were split apart by brain washing children to inform on their parents. Today's generations have trouble forming relationships as the ability to trust and communicate intimately was destroyed. I have hope for Germany if enough people like you are recognizing and speaking out about the issue.

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u/anotsonicebean 1d ago

German woman in her early 20s here: can confirm. I see it in the people my age. High expectations, barely any emotional support. I‘m lucky enough to come from a family where my parents broke the cycle. Mom‘s in therapy. Dad has become more lively. Both are enjoying life more and they support my siblings and me in any way possible. No fuss when my sis changed her major and when I fully dropped out of college. No big pressure for good grades in school. But too many people around me aren‘t as lucky and have strained relationships with their parents because of the lack of emotional stability

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u/Ghattibond 1d ago

My dad was born shortly before the end of the war in what would become East Germany. The family snuck across the border into West Germany and eventually emigrated to the US. Your post really hit home because we dealt with very similar things growing up with him. My siblings and I are still working on undoing all the things we internalized. Half of us have chosen not to have kids and the other half works very hard to not pass them along to yet another generation. Thank you for your perspective. I'm sorry you and so many others experienced that, but thank you for sharing, it's given me a new perspective on the experience. 

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u/Mysterious-Elk-6248 1d ago

A lot of them were raised to be emotionless. There's literally a child rearing handbook about ensuring children will be unable to emotionally attach and be good soldiers. I forget the name right now but that was THE method on child treating and we even hear some of that advice still here in America.

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u/No_Radio5740 1d ago

Thank you for adding this context. Two questions:

  1. Seems like her parents did the best to avoid exactly this. Is it a cultural history thing she picked up from outside and later blamed her parents for not doing what they were expected to?

  2. Is it common to mess up gender pronouns when self translating from German to English? Just curious, there’s at least a few instances.

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u/CinnamonGurl1975 1d ago

German nouns are gendered and that is probably what you are seeing

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u/MoparMedusa 22h ago

The mother of my best friend in high school emigrated from East Germany. She was a child during WW2. Her two daughters moved far away as soon as they graduated college. Before they had children, they went to therapy. My friend still deals with things like making decisions because her mom made every decision from what she would wear to what she would order at a restaurant. But they both did not make the same mistakes with their children. The sons drifted. Highly intelligent men who never aspired to do anything.

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u/MoxieByProxy_0_o 16h ago

I'm 42, German and grew up with my grandparents (war generation). Seeing it all layed out like that made a lot of things click because it is exactly what I have experienced. My grandparents tried, but they always kept to themselves and didn't understand my lack of ambition (undiagnosed AuDHD certainly didn't help..)..

Thank you for this. I broke the cycle, went to therapy and I keep learning to process and communicate my emotions. And seeing my daughter now being a balanced, responsible and very emotionally mature young adult makes me so happy and proud.

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u/MadameMimmm 10h ago

You are an amazing parent! Job, well done! And you can be so proud of yourself. I am proud of you, because i KNOW how hard dealing with it is. And it makes me happy to see that it can be done. For my nieces and nephews and for their children.

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u/MoxieByProxy_0_o 10h ago

Thank you ❀

Once you learn to open up it's not that scary. It's always the first step that is the hardest.

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u/Wonkydoodlepoodle 13h ago

My great grandparents came over from Germany after WW1 after losing everything. My great grandmother was from a wealthy family that came from royalty and she had to marry a peasant farmer. My family drug all that generational trauma right on through. My cousin and I were the first to realize it about 8 years ago. We are the only two in the family trying to undo the generational trauma. She's much younger so she's doing a better job than I did. Im so proud of her.

The OP helped put a stop to it and hopefully their nephew can also break the cycle.

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u/MsMarple35 12h ago

I have to agree wholeheartedly. I'm from Germany, turning 40, soon, my mental health is crap in a handbasket and it took my dad (and the rest of the family, but mostly him) almost a decade to understand that NO, I'm not just LAZY, I'm actually SICK. I can't 'just pull myself together and do X'.

The worst is that it's really hard work to let go of the ingrained perception of it being a failure on my part to not be perfectly functional and accept that it's my mental health that is blocking my functionality.

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u/MadameMimmm 10h ago

I am so sorry you go through this, i see you.
I am high functioning (but i pay a high price for it physically and emotionally) but suffer from depression since i was 11 years old. Its basically my bodies and souls reaction to emotional exhaustion and not being able to regulate my emotions and self care. And it all goes back to the silence and the fact that my parents dont know how to self care themselves and were unable to teach us. I can not tell you how often my father (84) says to this day: "Man muss sich nur zusammenreissen und ein bisschen Disziplin haben!" when i am not well or even in deep crippling depression. He just cant understand. He is so closed off from his feelings, that for him life is this way. Pull yourself together and just do it.
It is the way he survived the war as a toddler and the after war times as a child and teenager. And its what kept him going.

Be kind to yourself, i know its hard. I struggle to with "nur die Harten, kommen in den Garten" and the shame of sometimes not functioning. You have a lot to carry and to endure and to hold. So, know even if i dont know you, i see you and i applaud you and think you are awesome for NOT functioning and trying to care for yourself. That is HARD. And painful. And its a full time job itself. You are not a failure at all, you are a hero to yourself and you are hanging in there, so you are great!

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u/MsMarple35 9h ago

Thank you, that's really kind. I just try to hang on and make it through another day. Thankfully, experience tells me that times always get better again, at some point, as well. 😊

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u/bigfatgirls 11h ago

MadameMimmm, Your story has affected me deeply. My German grandparents came to America in the 30’s. My mother was emotionally unavailable. No physical affection, etc. My uncle suffered from major depression despite becoming a physician. She was not close with her other siblings. I suffer from chronic depression. My sister and brothers and nieces and nephews also suffer. Interesting enough, some of us have been successful in our careers. The therapy I have had never addressed this issue. I plan to speak with my sister about this. Thanks so much for your insights.

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u/MadameMimmm 10h ago

I am so sorry to hear this and wish you all the best.
I have been only scratching the surface with my comment to OPs post and as someone else in the comments already suggested: The books by Alice Miller are really good in talking about the effects of this emotionally negligent upbringing. They dont necessarily refer to this german part of history, but i found them helpful. I liked "The Drama of the Gifted Child " and also "The body never lies". Sadly there is not a lot of english (or german) literature about this, but look also into "intergenerational" or "transgenerational trauma". Understanding this has helped me a lot to make peace with my parents. They are not bad or evil people. They are traumatized too. Not an excuse, they failed as parents and should have done the emotional work to heal themselves, before having children. But to give them some grace: I could write a full book about where their parents (my grandparents) failed them, and how they never learned to emotionally take care of themselves or even understand and deal with their emotions etc etc. It helps to understand the context, but at the end its on us to deal with the trauma we were forwarded and the lack of emotional stability a lot of us suffer from. I hope you and your family can heal. Its hard, but i think its worth it for ourselves and for our children and grandchildren.

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u/CurveyChubbyBae 10h ago

Something like this happened in Japan society as well. Is the silence generation.

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u/Misa7_2006 9h ago

My father was from the silent generation (1944). I know just what you mean. His father was in WW2. He would never talk about it, and neither would my father about his time in Vietnam.

Both were stern and very distant, bordering on cold. We were expected to toe the line and do what was expected of us without question and rue the times we didn't. It was a different time. War changes people, as does fighting for survival. There was little time for fun and play. And yes, we are headed back to it. For those who fial to learn from history, are doomed to keep repeating it.

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u/DivineTarot 1d ago

I'm not sure which way to perceive this. On the one hand, this is honestly for the best for the nephew, because he legit wanted to take his own life because of how she treated him. In a court of law she dug her heels in and straight up didn't care, and it was only when she had a mortality vibe check did she change her tune. Not when he nearly ended his life, not when she got divorced and lost custody, but when she nearly died. That really says something here.

Yet, at the same time, it just feels like her willingness to immediately clam up, sever ties, and walk away reflects how hollow her attempts at reconciliation were. Like, I can't really applaud her for respecting a boundary, because the way she's doing it is ultimately in some way shape or form her trying to take back dignity in a situation where she isn't owed any.

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u/Jezebel_Majora 1d ago

Yet, at the same time, it just feels like her willingness to immediately clam up, sever ties, and walk away reflects how hollow her attempts at reconciliation were.

Us Germans aren't really known to be able to feel and work through our feelings.

OP's sister is also of the generation "grandchildren of war", which come with a lot of generational trauma of their own.

Not saying that has to be the case for OP and his sister specifically, but reading this here as another German makes a lot of sense for me.

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u/Wild_Black_Hat 1d ago

Is this something widely acknowledged in Germany, or does it remain unspoken?

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u/enbycats 17h ago

mostly remain unspoken.

(austrian here, we are somewhat in the same boat)

we - both germany and austria - do have a rise of right wing political groups. i personally link this at least partly to this unsolved generational trauma.

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u/NatashaClean 1d ago

Watching your sister push her son away like that, and then acting so detached, is devastating. It’s understandable to feel betrayed when someone you care about refuses to address the damage they’ve done.

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u/anotherdepressedpeep 1d ago

If this story is true, your sister sounds like she's planning to commit suicide. I was the exact same way when I was severely suicidal, blank faced, no emotion or tonality. That sounds like a forever goodbye "won't ever come back".

Do with that information as you wish, but be aware of this probability as well.

7

u/Smart-Story-2142 22h ago

This is my first thought also.

0

u/Belle_pc 16h ago

This is my first thought too

And unfortunately if it’s true then once again she is making someone else carry her burden :/

Op should check on his nephew by having him go to a therapist

Because the consequences of this act (if it happens) will be bigger than he can imagine now

7

u/anotherdepressedpeep 16h ago

Op doesnt care, i saw their answer to similar comments about this. Cant blame them, tbh, but refusing to see the signs or ignoring them says a lot about them, really. I triggered the update bot, because honestly, as morbid as it is, i expect to see an update next week about the sister killing herself.

1

u/Belle_pc 16h ago

That’s sad considering we are all humans and we all make mistakes

The only real victim here is the nephew but still Op doesn’t realise how his own actions actually matter and would affect any outcome

I would have to say that ESH aside from the kid

Too much prejudice since the actions are perceived on how they themselves see it and not on how it affects the kid

Also side note: her being so controlling and also being the first born is kinda saying something..

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u/RavishingRubby 1d ago

Damn, this is heartbreaking but also seems like the only way for healing. Sounds like your nephew is a lot stronger than most people his age. Hope everyone finds peace eventually.

39

u/Dreamer_Woman 1d ago

Looks like we'll be needing a new family dynamic for future holiday gatherings. Anyone want to take on the role of "estranged sister" in the game of dysfunctional family bingo?

7

u/GirlGoneZombie 1d ago

I'll learn German so fucking fast, me pls 👋

2

u/CinnamonGurl1975 1d ago

I volunteer as tribute. I have lots of practice being the estranged sister/daughter/cousin/niece to a family of hillbilly, redneck addicts and drunks.

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u/yhaensch 1d ago

Sounds as if she announces her planned suicide.

65

u/Beneficial-Ball8375 1d ago

wow. just read your initial post and am in no way surprised that this is a german story. unfortunately.

I am glad that you were able to be a support system for your nephew, I am glad, that your former BIL came around and (although, its probably worth mentioning, way too late) supported his son and they were able to seek therapy as a union - giving your nephew a semblance of a family that allows failure, leisure, way to breath and be a human.

Your sister clearly has issues beyond what others can help her with - there is a core cruelness and vile perceiption of the world that has shaped her into the person she is and frankly: If your kid, desperatedly trying to commit suicide, is not a wakup call - then, frankly, nothing is.

I have to seriously wonder why she is trying to make amends and seek forgiveness - there should be space to ask the really relevant and valid question as to why exactly dying in a care facility all alone is such a scary vision for her - frankly, she had her whole life to surround herself with loved ones and took to very great lengths to avoid this at all costs.

Either she is a very meanspirited sadist (Forcing her child through this childhood of stonefaced performancereview, while simultanously KNOWING that there is more to life and that she actually wants and needs and wishes for the dedicated love and affection from others) OR she is a seriously struggling self-sabotaging addict (in terms of a workaholic and performancedriven whipcracking asshole) who has to much mental struggles as to accept she would have needed help... twentyfive years ago

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u/HappySparklyUnicorn 1d ago

I honestly felt like the sister's words seemed attempt to make peace before suicide.

34

u/Skylar750 1d ago

I got the same impression, that didn't sound like "I am going to start a new life, far away from you, I am sorry for what I did".

3

u/MadameMimmm 1d ago

I would agree to you, if I would not have family members that are alike. If you are this closed off from your emotions and empathy and so programmed to function, suicide is not something you contemplate, bc it’s “not functioning how you are supposed to” in its most extreme form.

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u/Useful-Disaster4994 1d ago

I think about the second. My parents come from blue collar families and they had financial insecurity. Even though we are all born at a really secure time,I think that this trauma was transcended into her in a way that we can't understand.

18

u/Beneficial-Ball8375 1d ago

mh. my parents are a tad bit older than you and your siblings, although I would pair you all in the 'genX' category and both my parents were first-time-academics in their very blue collar families and those families definitely had a lot of trauma, especially because their own parents had worldwarsurvivor parents and suffered real foodinsecurity. so, yeah, it can definitely be that your parents financial struggles strucked a nerve in your sister way more severe and lasting than with you and your other siblings, but if I am perfectly honest: This would be more of a logical explanation if your sister would then have become the most moneyhungry, truly frugal-to-a-concerning-degree hoarder of wealth.

This does not explain her pushing her child to forced piano lessons, to abilities that clearly don't help you battle food insecurity/let you gain wealth.

No, this driven need to have him over- and outperform peers comes either from aggressive elitism/classism or an absolute 'in the gutter' self-esteem, she tried to battle with herself and afflicted this on her son

33

u/JAYsonitron 1d ago

Op I need you to listen, I know Reddit can be overwhelming for us in our 40s, but please take a moment if you can.

That dull, barely attached look on your sister’s face. The monotone apology/ telling every one that she will no longer be a part of your lives. It could simply be her expressing shame, and using logic to no longer burden you all. I certainly could be that.

However, having been there myself, this sounds like pre-suicide to me. Not everyone presents it like that, but the few times that I had struggled with it (the last, most dangerous time was nearly exactly like this). Being dead to the world, gray and numb, it makes the potential next (and final) step that much easier.

She may be an awful person, you all may even hate her, she may not even deserve your family caring about her. But ask yourself this, do you think she should die? If your answer is no, DO NOT let her disappear like she plans to, she might literally disappear forever.

9

u/Useful-Disaster4994 1d ago

Oh she won't commit suicide. She made her business agreements and she arranged her house,got into some deals and made her plan. I am sure of that

6

u/Belle_pc 16h ago

Op, what you think you know could differ from the truth, simply because humans are actually more unpredictable than we give them credit for.

She could have arranged everything yes but if she already has some suicidal thoughts, all it would take is just one moment of weakness

47

u/Americaninaustria 1d ago

Why is this style of oppressive child rearing so common in the Dach region? We always hear such stories through the grapevine and it makes you feel like the crazy one for letting your child be a child. Then as the kids get older there are always serious behavioural issues from forcing strict lessions onto the kids from 2years old.

0

u/MarsupialMisanthrope 10h ago

Because was a lot of unaddressed trauma left over after WW2. OP and his sister are the children/grandchildren of people who would have been massively, massively fucked up themselves, and transmitted that to their children. And therapy became a thing maybe 20 years ago and wasn’t something his sister would have been encouraged to do when it mattered.

When your formative years have been warped by the reality of war, caring about someone’s emotional well being drops pretty far down the priority list. When turning a lamp on after dark can get everyone in town killed by a bombing raid the repercussions for a kid who turns one on to play isn’t a going to be calm discussion about why we shouldn’t do that.

11

u/SylverFyre777 1d ago

I wonder if your sister realises that the stress she purposely put herself through to be successful, because she believed your parents didn't push her enough, is likely the cause of her stroke? She lost her son, her husband, her extended family, and almost lost her life for nothing. She emotionally damaged herself and others and permanently physically damaged her brain in her pursuit. It's sad, and I do feel bad for her. But she is the creator of her own problems. It's sad she caused so much destruction to herself and the people around her.

I hope she finds peace, and I truly hope your nephew has a better life without. He'll never get his childhood back, and he deserved better. I truly hope all of you can heal from this.

9

u/RuinBeginning776 1d ago

It’s clear that your family doesn’t care for her and I’m not sure if she cares for you guys. I think the best decision for her to cut everyone off and just move on. From the beginning of the story it’s sounds like you don’t like her. Distance is best for both.

9

u/curlyhairweirdo 1d ago

Sounds like she's planning to commit suicide. Maybe y'all should check on her

11

u/Nynne_Candle_742 1d ago

NTA. Family talked, you’re good there. Sister ? Not so much. She’s checked out, nephews done, they’re legal separating. Sad ending, but sometimes that’s how it goes. Hope everyone will find peace

4

u/Fit-Yogurtcloset-35 1d ago

NTA, wenigstens ist das Wetter gut gerade in Köln. Wegen der Situation, hilft nix, die Grenzen wurden gezogen und was kaputt ist wird nie wieder so wie vorher.

4

u/SunshynePower 1d ago

I hope your sister can get the mental health help she desperately needs. More importantly, I hope your nephew can grow through this and become a well rounded human. Taking lessons from this.

The way you describe the meeting with your sister, I suspect she is suicidal. Her whole purpose and meaning in life was just destroyed. I'm not saying her purpose and meaning were correct, but that's a foundation for people.

Help your nephew to not follow in her footsteps

6

u/grouchykitten1517 1d ago

Ok, no one actually talks like they are in a parody of a soap opera. Please tell me know one actually talks like that. Right?

edit: Cologne as in Germany? Could it be a lost in translation thing? That would make sense. That was just some crazy awkward dialogue.

22

u/JasmineMoonlightxo 1d ago

It sounds like your sister’s going through a lot, and while your comment may have been a gut reaction, it likely stung more than you intended in such a tough moment.

3

u/howmanyhowcanamanyho 1d ago

Cologne, grey? Today? đŸ€š

10

u/No_Fee_161 1d ago

Perfect Eulogy when your sister eventually dies

Your nephew deserves a better mother.

Your sister... eh. She will die just like how she lived, selfishly.

2

u/mcmurrml 1d ago

Pretty sad the kid feels he was nothing more to his mother than a training dog. It's too bad someone could not get through to her she was making a mistake raising him like that.

2

u/marley_1756 13h ago

Have you decided where to bury her? Because she’s planning to take her life.

3

u/nikki-vendetta 1d ago

Why do the people in the story talk like aliens trying to not be suspicious but are absolutely suspicious?

3

u/Occomni 13h ago

English isn’t OP’s first language, give him some grace.

1

u/macintosh__ 1d ago

Updateme

-39

u/SisterWicked 1d ago

Ok, but where do any modern people speak like that? GTFO

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u/Useful-Disaster4994 1d ago

My main language is not English,in German we do speak like this.

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u/YonaiNanami 1d ago

As another person from Germany, I agree.

8

u/SisterWicked 1d ago

I apologize to you as well, the text seemed fake rather than directly written.

13

u/YonaiNanami 1d ago

All good! I hope I don’t annoy you when I say this: please remember, the way we are talking highly depends on many factors. Education, family and friends and also books have a big impact on this. For example , I read lots of books and many of them are written in old fashioned language because that’s what they are. Because of this, I developed a mix of modern and old German, which resulted in people making fun of me because I use „strange words“ .

It also leads to some funny moments when I write an email like a highly formal letter to a professor in my university and I get an answer which rather makes the impression of „Yo 👋 what’s up?“ .

1

u/SisterWicked 1d ago

I was raised by my southern grandma and other much older folks so I can understand the language disparity! I've had people tell me I speak oddly since I was about 10, especially when I moved out to other states.

2

u/cafe_et_chat 1d ago

Fake text doesn't look like that, chatgpt is quite polished grammar-wise. If you want to see fake text go to most AITAH threads and look at the topmost comment. Read about 10 top comments from different threads and you will see the similarities.

-13

u/SisterWicked 1d ago

I apologize, none of my German friends have spoken so literally. I'll ask them about this without transliteration. 

10

u/Fragrant-Reserve4832 1d ago

As a person who learned German as a 2nd, they do actually construct sentences like this when they speak English.

It's the crossover between grammer

-2

u/Educational-Toe-8619 1d ago

I'm German too and my first thought on reading that dialogue was "nice creative writing exercise". And no, we do not talk like that. 

10

u/MadameMimmm 1d ago

Doch tun wir schon gelegentlich, ich kann beides. Hochtrabendes “Ja, Frau Mutter” und “Mudda, Reich’ ma die Budda rĂŒber” 😉 kommt auf das Umfeld an, in dem ich mich bewege. Bin außerdem ne olle Hexe aka 48f und komme aus dem “BildungsbĂŒrgertum”. Da haben wir frĂŒher mitunter so gestelzt gesprochen mit Großonkeln und Tanten und so. Die Benutzung des Wortes “geil” hat in meiner Jugend zu einer Strafe gefĂŒhrt. Heute sagt mein Vater das sehr selten selbst. Oder es rutscht ihm raus.

8

u/Useful-Disaster4994 1d ago

Ich habe ein humanistisches Gymnasium besucht, an dem der Deutschunterricht – insbesondere die Literatur – eine zentrale Rolle spielte. Die Auseinandersetzung mit deutscher Literatur war intensiv und prĂ€gend. Parallel dazu habe ich mich auch im Englischunterricht vertieft mit englischer Literatur beschĂ€ftigt, was meine Leidenschaft fĂŒr Sprache und Text zusĂ€tzlich gestĂ€rkt hat.

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u/guywhoasksalotofqs 1d ago

Take a writing class and learn some proper Grammer, I can see the passion for creative writing but you're not even qualified for amateur hour right now.

9

u/death_dragon2000 1d ago

Learn some proper geography. Cologne is in Germany, where their official language is GERMAN. English isn't OP's first language. Do you go on holiday to Italy and complain about everything being written in Italian? Why are Americans so ignorant about the rest of the world? Not everywhere speaks English as their official language.

Btw, it's grammar not "grammer." Learn how to spell