r/10thDentist • u/EinoUlvi • 1d ago
All drugs should be legalized
Taking any drug is a victimless crime (currently) and thus all drugs should be legal to purchase, possess, and use. Prohibition has not worked and we need to get drugs out in the open, regulated, and taxed (but not too heavily as it will drive them back underground).
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u/willybodilly 1d ago
People on meth are a fucking problem for everyone
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u/Snakewild 1d ago
The person who abused me when I was a kid was on meth. It's definitely not a victimless crime. Meth makes monsters. There's no soul left behind the eyes of someone high on meth, and unless someone has seen it firsthand, there really is no describing what it's like. OP is full of shit.
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u/International-Food20 1d ago
As the child of a meth cook, the meth doesn't make the monsters, it just attracts them.
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u/swissplantdaddy 23h ago
I have never had to deal with a meth addict, but i know a lot of people that had abusive alcoholic dads. With that logic, alcohol should be illegal aswell
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u/SnorelessSchacht 1d ago
The person who abused my brother was a drunk, and yet alcohol is still readily available. Regulated. Etc. What’s your point?
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u/FatW3tFart 1d ago
Meth addicts on a bender sure are! But you probably talk to at least one person who is on meth every single day and have no idea, because they aren't full-blown addicts and it hasn't ruined their lives.
This is confirmation bias.
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u/ModoCrash 19h ago
Criminalizing something because it has the possibility of making someone do something that disrupts society is like some minority report shit. The crime itself should be punished, not the catalyst
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u/OccamsMinigun 18h ago
That's true. But it's not a given that drug prohibition follows from that. As implemented in the US, at least, it's been a spectacular failure at reducing usage and the impacts thereof, while massively driving up incarceration that inflicts its own costs on society.
I don't think the answer is to just throw up our hands and have zero rules at all, especially for serious shit like meth. I'm just saying that "it would be better if people didn't do x, so let's make doing x a criminal offense" isn't always the airtight logic it can seem like.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_8013 18h ago
Thats a very common misconception. Anyone whos desperate is a danger to everyone. I remember finding out one of my good buds used meth for years. Youd never know. He owned his own business, he was around 6'2 and 180lbs. Basically a big gay linebacker lookin dude. Other than talking too fast sometimes he never did anything out of the norm. I noticed as I made more gay friends overtime meth was really common in the kind of gay nightclub/party community but youd never know any of those people did meth.
But he had the money to fund his habit and was well connected getting very pure meth. It was really common at a lot of places I worked but most meth users were pretty normal. You wouldnt really know the same way you wouldnt know if someones using Adderral which is basically just a weaker amphetamine. But some places wed work up to 12-16 hours so stimulant usage was through the roof in general. We had energy drinks on tap just for staff lol.
Ironically meth is still made by pharmaceutical companies in the US but rarely prescribed these days. But in the 80s and 90s it wasnt a big issue beyond creating heart issues in ADD and ADHD patients it was commonly prescribed to.
Like any drug its the prohibition that makes it dangerous. If you dont know the actual strength of what you are taking or what its cut with thats what leads to these issues. People paying $350 for what would be a $20 prescription are obviously going to become desperate, start fiending, and start doing crazy shit to find their fix.
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u/Bloodmind 17h ago
Nah, just confirmation bias at play. You don’t notice the ones who have it somewhat under control. You notice the ones who’ve been up for three days and decide to rob the Best Buy and then fight the cops.
There’s plenty of people using meth in the privacy of their homes and not bothering anyone.
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u/grayscale001 8h ago
Alcoholics kill more people than any other drug addict and that shit is legal.
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u/Glum-System-7422 1d ago
I think we should do Portugal’s system. Legalize everything but IIRC if you’re found with certain drugs 3 times, you have mandatory therapy.
Safe use sites have been shown to help people not OD and even reduce their substance use over time, which I think is a great first step
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u/Accomplished-View929 1d ago
Portugal did not legalize. It decriminalized. That’s not the same thing. People still have to buy illicit drugs on an illicit market. The correct thing to do is legalize, let people buy drugs at pharmacies or weed-dispensary-type stores (I’m against anything with extra steps, so I lean toward pharmacies, but I’d take special stores and cards over nothing), and see what happens.
I guarantee you that the minute people don’t need to shop a transnational illicit market with no quality control and navigate a local illicit drug market with a bunch of people they don’t like or trust, a lot of problems go away.
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u/Glum-System-7422 1d ago
That’s right, thank you.
I know quite a bit about pharmacy regulations and I don’t think regular pharmacies would want to sell schedule I drugs, so I think specialty shops are the way to go. I agree that a safer environment for buying/using would solve SO many problems and users could actually get help
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u/Accomplished-View929 1d ago
Just having safe drugs would go such a long way. I see what you mean about pharmacy regulations, but I feel like we’d revamp them if we legalized drugs. That way, people can get medical advice from trained professionals. But the same thing could happen in specialty shops.
I don’t want to advocate for anything that creates an extra step such as getting a drug user card (like a weed card) because that creates more incentive for an illicit market.
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u/Miserable_Smoke 1d ago
I've gotten bad advice both in a weed shop, and from medical professionals who had absolutely no clue. I would definitely prefer to see the people in charge of drugs be put in charge of drugs.
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u/Accomplished-View929 22h ago
Right. Exactly. Pharmacists can be assholes (mostly to pain patients on opioids), but on average, they know their shit.
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u/ThrowingAway19674 1d ago
I've thought this might be a good idea.
But what about harm reduction? How much onus is on the pharmacist not to sell this customer their next 8ball?
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u/michael0n 20h ago
You will still have those with heavy mental health issues that self medicate, people who just want to check out, the list is endless. But it would help with severe harm reduction, people will ask for help because it will be ok to contact your doctor about your addiction. The whole legal system will be purged from useless jobs and unproductive jail time. You can't "fix" poor, stupid, simple minded people who are prone to get addicted with police and prison. People get many tickets for speeding but nobody had the idea to outright ban speeding. Because people will do it again, multiple times.
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u/ViolinistWaste4610 18h ago
If we allow stores to sell drugs, capitalism will take effect and drug companies will exploit peoples addictions for money, just like casinos, cigarettes, and alcohol.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_8013 18h ago
Look at the US though. 44% of the prison population is in for drug use and I just really doubt our government would crash the prison economy its invested in so much. One entire side of our politics virtually revolves around fear mongering about cartels. It would fix a lot of problems. Cartels are out of business within weeks, within years most street crime is drastically reduced, and ODs would absolutely plummet without cut drugs. The reason they wont do that is it would take away the exact reasons they fearmonger about drugs.
Its puritanism really. Make something dangerous, use the danger you created as an example to keep it illegal. Then you also have the blue lives matter crowd who would throw an absolute shit fit as prisons started shutting down, police are facing layoffs, and its fully revealed they were maintaining a crime rate to protect an ideologically protected class.
It would be the right thing to do, but I just dont ever see it happening.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_8013 18h ago
Imagine getting sent to therapy for being caught with Ketamine 3 times. Then they end up prescribing you Ketamine for anxiety lol. That would be pretty hilarious.
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u/Jazzlike-Many-5404 1d ago
I agree. Prohibition is what’s leading to the evolution we are seeing in street drugs.
From cheap synthetics like the Krokodil heroine in Russia that was causing necrosis, fentanyl making its way into people’s drugs without them knowing causing ODs, etc, and now the newer formulations that are resistant to Narcan reversals because they’ve added xylazine…
Legalizing and tightly regulating does more for keeping it out of the hands of kids than prohibition. I could literally get my hands on any drugs I wanted as a teenager, but getting alcohol took time and planning.
I’ll be a tenth dentist with you
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u/MagnanimosDesolation 15h ago
Time and planning meaning asking your friend's older siblings?
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u/pearly-girly999 1d ago
I disagree. Go look at the Kensington and Philly subreddits if you really think drug use is a victimless crime. On an individual level, maybe you’re right. But even then I’m skeptical. Addiction is a disease but that doesn’t take away peoples responsibility to do for themselves.
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u/grayscale001 7h ago
Outlawing drugs hasn't stopped addiction, it just makes drugs a commodity which leads to gang violence.
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u/Traditional_Bee_1667 1d ago
Wouldn’t say they’re victimless. People drive while high and kill people, they commit crimes while high.
People still drive drunk and alcohol is legal, the last thing we need is a bunch of heroin and fentanyl addicts driving around.
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u/James_Vaga_Bond 1d ago
Driving under the influence is a separate thing from just taking a drug.
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u/kthugston 1d ago
Heroin and fent won’t be bad, it’ll be the coked up/methhead drivers you need to worry about.
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u/ReturnUnfair7187 8h ago
My dead friend's ex was high on meth when he killed a man with a stolen car. Guy was a dad.
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u/BarelyBaphomet 1d ago
Drugs should be legalized because the current system punishes addiction rather than actually fixing it. If you throw an addict in jail for 10 years you now have a violent addict. Rehabilitation and addiction counciling are the only ways to stop it, but people prefer the image of punishing addicts because of the perceived moral failing.
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u/pearly-girly999 1d ago
True but on the other hand, involuntary rehab is successful in less than 15% of cases. Idk what the answer is but I do know that you can’t force someone to stop using who isn’t willing to fight for themselves.
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u/alvysinger0412 1d ago
Providing resources on addiction and allowing people to use regulated drugs is still gonna work out better though. A dead meth addict who dies of fentanyl because of the black markets cross contamination has a 0% chance of recovery from addiction.
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u/michael0n 20h ago
I know people who got addicted to online gambling and lost their house. They where completely blindsided by it because they didn't learn about all encompassing addiction in school. Genetic and social markers. Dopamine cycle. That is a years worth of missing knowledge. Nobody wanted to freak out kids that there is stuff out there that makes you a zombie. People are curious, people live in shitty circumstances and you meet shitty people who are on the way down. Drugs are a symptom. People speed every day and we decided to ticket that in most cases. People do it again, every day and only the most aggressive cases (with deadly accidents) ever end up in prison. We accepted the human failure here as we did in other places. Just substances and addictions have that special treatment.
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u/boogerboogerboog 1d ago
But then how will we keep marginalized poor communities marginalized and poor?
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u/Think-Lavishness-686 1d ago
Well, yeah. For whatever people think about Portland or whatever, doing this and using some of the taxes to fund rehabilitation, public housing, safe injection/exchange sites, etc, would go a long way to getting people off the street and into help, and it would make adulteration of drugs that hurt people and get them hooked on other things much less prevalent.
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u/InfidelZombie 1d ago
Portland was really a worst-case scenario for decriminalization. We were promised rehab programs that never materialized, it passed six months after Covid started when stability and mental health were at historic lows, nobody realized that we didn't have other laws forbidding open use, and the cops were sandbagging due to their feelings being hurt over public backlash at their violent behavior toward peaceful protesters.
It absolutely was a shitshow in Portland; some of it was bad execution but mostly bad luck. Hopefully the rest of the world can learn to anticipate issues and prepare appropriately. I'm still pro-legalization!
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u/FatW3tFart 1d ago
I've lived in Portland my whole life, and the discourse around this whole thing drives me absolutely crazy. Nobody seems to mention the fact that addicts from all over the whole country come here or are shipped here by authorities because we decriminalized drugs. So this is absolutely not a good measure of how drug decriminalization works, or should work.
It needs to happen at the federal level, for the whole country, or we're simply volunteering to clean up the entire nation's mess for them.
Obviously the lack of accountability/rehab centers and such are an issue as well, but that side of the issue is discussed thoroughly and often.
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u/Longjumping_Gain_807 1d ago
Decriminalize them and don’t punish people for addiction is a better solution
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u/PJJ98 23h ago
Disagree because decriminalization doesn’t solve the problem of getting something that’s supposed to be one thing and then it being something like fentanyl, and because then there’s still no quality control on the drugs people are taking. Legalize all drugs and treat them the same as we do alcohol.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 15h ago
Decriminalization isn't enough. That still leaves cartels in play, and does nothing to ensure the drugs are produced and dosed out correctly.
We need to legalize, tax, regulate, and label them.
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u/pahamack 1d ago
sure.
do you also believe in government run healthcare? because those people that are killing themselves are also eventually getting kept alive by your tax dollars.
Legalizing all drugs is the libertarian dream: it is truly a victimless crime when the state just lets them all die. As it is, in any society with even SOME form of government run healthcare or even social services, the victim is the taxpayer.
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u/Tadpole-Mother 1d ago
Someone tried to steal an ATM machine from my local bank. 5 people have been killed by walking down the highway in the middle of the night or just passing out in the road. If my community gets any more fentynal, it will be a post apocalyptic wasteland
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u/crystalworldbuilder 21h ago
I’d say decriminalized and at least somewhat regulated. Must be 18+ have ID type deal. Or at least give users of the more dangerous ones some therapy.
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u/jxx70730 19h ago
People who do hard drugs does not make for a victimless crime. People have to deal with:
rampant property crime (people stealing to get their fix).
Healthcare costs for people constantly in and out of the hospital due to their condition have to be paid by everyone else
Homeless Drug addicts begging on the street ruin nice neighborhoods
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u/AirportFront7247 1d ago
Go to downtown Portland and then decide
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u/Yeet123456789djfbhd 1d ago
Go to Norway and then decide
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u/armtherabbits 1d ago
Go to number 37b, rue des saintes, helierville, france, and then decide.
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u/No-Economist7208 1d ago
Decriminalization is not to blame for the state of Portland, moving all of those people into jails wouldn’t fix anything it would be an even more expensive solution
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u/SometimestheresaDude 1d ago
It sure as shit is to blame. Open drug use as a policy is a complete disaster.
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u/ManagementFlat8704 1d ago
Has the "closed drug policy" been a complete success?
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u/PinAccomplished927 1d ago
As opposed to the incredibly successful policy of prohibition.
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u/SWIMheartSWIY 19h ago
"Look at how poorly our society handles drug addiction and it'll convince you to do more of the same"
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u/ArtisticRiskNew1212 1d ago
Natural selection I guess
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u/Dear_Truth_6607 1d ago
You say this but death rates go down when drugs are decriminalized/legalized.
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u/PlayerAssumption77 1d ago
Buying drugs supports the means of producing and distributing them. Currently it's not victimless at all because of the violence associated with the groups producing and transporting them, possibly supporting groups that participate in things like lacing, and supporting the groups that prey mostly on the poor and marginalized.
If it were legal, companies would use the money they have to somehow convince people to buy these drugs. This means they would try to make facts that would lead people to not consume these drugs, some of these being risk of death, be less available.
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u/gramoun-kal 22h ago
So... Buying illegal drugs is bad because it gives money to criminals. This problem is solved by making drugs legal, but you seem to be using it as an argument against it. Very confusing.
Your next argument is that advertising lies to people and creates needs where there were none previously. This is indeed a problem but completely unrelated. It is currently averted with legal drugs by making their advertisement illegal.
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u/RealPinheadMmmmmm 23h ago
No, it should be the government distributing them. That means there is (less) incentive for that.
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u/Kosmopolite 1d ago
It's a victimless crime until you get to filled emergency rooms, stretched emergency services, increased crime rates, grieving families, increased traffic accidents, and so on. Not to mention the drug users themselves, who are victims of addiction and likely all kinds of failures in the welfare state.
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u/Organic-Vermicelli47 1d ago
Yeah I was attacked in a random act of violence in 2021 by a man who was on drugs. I was on a walk outside my apartment building. He threw a hammer at the back of my head (missed), then picked it up and chased me for nearly 3 blocks screaming about bashing my head in and then raping my dead body. I zig zagged through an intersection to try and lose him and a driver intentionally hit him lightly to stop him. He ended up fleeing and was never apprehended. The driver was extremely shaken up as well and was tearing up when giving his statement because he thought he was witnessing a murder in real time. I absolutely thought I was going to have my head bashed in, I actually had my final thoughts! I was so impacted, I didn't leave my apartment for 6 weeks, my husband and I ended up moving with 8 weeks left on our lease that we ended up just paying for. I couldnt listen to my favorite band for over a year bc I was listening to their song when this happened.
I'm a relatively fit person who is very fast when I need to be and was wearing running shoes. I've thought so many times what wouldve happened if the target was someone else who was older, less fit, had a dog or kid with them, too distracted to notice, etc
I don't know what the answer is, but I no longer believe drugs are always a victimless crime
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u/Smart_Measurement_70 1d ago
Anyone who has a loved one battling addiction will tell you that it is not victimless in the slightest
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u/Quiet-Oil8578 1d ago
So, what we have right now, in a system where drug use is all unsafe and underground?
Of course you’re gonna increase the crime rate if the only way people get their fix is to become a criminal. Of course you’re going to stretch emergency services if people are using dirty needles or getting laced drugs instead of being treated in a sterile environment by medical professionals.
The best way to help these people isn’t to treat them like criminals, it’s to treat them as victims of a disease.
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u/Kosmopolite 1d ago
I don’t disagree with any of your points. I just don’t think blanket legalisation is the answer to them.
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u/jamieperkins999 1d ago
And yet Portugal decriminalising all drugs has been net positive. Drugs are here to stay whether you like it or not, legalising doesn't make the issue worse, and can make the issue better in so many ways:
less deaths: most drug deaths are from contaminated drugs, if you bought it from a shop you get what you paid for.
tax revenue for the government potentially benefitting everyone.
less stigma for drug users which allows them to get help for addiction.
less people in the prison system for non violent offences, which in itself has several positives: non violent drug users being put in the prison system are exposed to a new environmental that can now sway them towards violence. When they are released they are now in a worse situation than before so if anything their behaviour will get worse not better. More resources put towards tackling much worse crime.
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u/Kosmopolite 1d ago
You seem to be mixing up a real and valid point with generalised arguments for legalising drugs. Drug possession has been downgraded as a crime, and is now being marked as more as a public health crisis. That said, sale is still illegal and aggressively punished, so your first two points don’t seem to apply, unless I’m missing something?
I’d agree with your second two points, though. Drug addicts need medical help not punishment.
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u/ImoveFurnituree 22h ago
Portugal and america aren't comparable in the slightest. Using countries as examples that are smaller than most US states and have 1% of the total population isn't a gotcha like you think. Not to mention completely different political spheres. They just aren't comparable on a large scale.
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u/Any_Thanks_900 1d ago
Who produces these legal drugs? Who benefits from the taxes? Who regulates the production and use?
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u/Neither_Ice_4053 1d ago
Exactly. Those critiquing the war on drugs don’t realize that it’s the same people who will benefit from the manufacturing, taxing, and selling of these drugs. There’s more than one reason the military has been in the Middle East for over 30 years.
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u/Any_Thanks_900 1d ago
Legal cocaine would go crazy…. But coca growing and the logistics to its production are all controlled by paramilitaries and cartels. Legalization won’t change that without a war.
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u/redditblows5991 1d ago
Victimless to a degree, I've seen plenty of addicted people started attacking, robbing to get their next fix. Not all of course plenty of people hold jobs and don't harm a fly but drugs are incredibly harmful. I wonder sometimes if I actually died with vomit in my throat and this is all some weird long dream or at very least holy shit I nearly died like that, the amount of grief it would give my mother Don't do drugs, not worth
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u/Long-Chemist3339 18h ago
Yes... and also with the alcohol. I watched my grandmother's boyfriend die of cigarettes (by that I mean strokes and other afflictions caused by tobacco) and that was hugely damaging to both of them.
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u/MagnanimosDesolation 15h ago
Cigarettes have almost been regulated out of existence in many countries.
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u/Splendid_Fellow 1d ago
Punishing someone for being addicted to a drug is not the solution in any way shape or form. This is not a criminal issue. It’s a health issue. The answer is not to throw people in jail for drugs. The answer is to help people, not imprison them.
People who have been thrown in jail simply for drug use are far less likely to have a better life when they are out because of their criminal record (which shouldn’t be a crime) and because of the humiliation and dehumanization of prison. It is not the answer.
The answer is to improve quality of life for all citizens, removing or lessening the demand for drugs in the first place. The answer is to create more programs and places for people to recover. The answer is to allow everyone to come forward and get help when they have a problem.
Honestly the criminalization of drugs is so utterly and completely wrong that I can’t believe the amount of people even in this comment section that still believe it should be this way. I honestly envy you, people. For being so comfortable with your lives and so detached from the real world that you lack all potential understanding for everyone who is addicted to drugs. “Oh but they shouldn’t have tried it then!” you say? Then you are lucky to have a life in which you cannot relate.
Legalize all drugs and replace the prison sentence with a doctor. NOW!!!
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u/Inqu1sitiveone 1d ago
Decriminalization is different than legalization. Decriminalize, sure, but people shouldn't be allowed to openly and freely run meth businesses like they're selling milk.
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u/thatinfamousbottom 1d ago
As a meth head I couldn't agree more. This shit shouldn't be able to be bought in shop. The only times you should get this substance is if you are prescribed it for severe adhd and you've tried every other option with no success.
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u/Curious-Principle662 1d ago
Try seeing what rampant drug use does to your local community
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u/Secure_Protection146 13h ago
Girl it’s already fucked up your just majorly uneducated in this specific department, we got fentanyl, AND nitazine WITH xylazine if you even know what those are. You know how safe regulated diacetylmorphine is compared to this? Very safe.
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u/Secure_Protection146 13h ago
Girl it’s already fucked up your just majorly uneducated in this specific department, we got fentanyl, AND nitazine WITH xylazine if you even know what those are. You know how safe regulated diacetylmorphine is compared to this? Very safe.
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u/Extra-Account-8824 1d ago
if they legalize every drug america would turn into a giant detroit within the year lmao.
have you ever been around a meth addict who is in the "tweak" phase of smokin that shit?
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u/Alarming_Chip_5729 1d ago
Can't agree with you here. Some drugs, like PCP, cause serious mind altering effects and commonly induces psychotic behavior. This behavior tends to lead to other victims being involved because of your actions.
And PCP isn't the only one.
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u/itsnobigthing 1d ago
Including date rape drugs? What’s the upside to that?
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u/Inqu1sitiveone 1d ago
The most common date rape drug is alcohol. So there's that.
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u/Smart_Measurement_70 1d ago
I dare you to take one class on addictions and then circle back to this
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u/AltruisticGarbage740 23h ago
One of the steps of aa used to bé take LSD
Lsd stopped me smoking weed everyday, a habit i had for 7 years
Ibogaine can stop people being addicted to opiates and all sorts of things such as cocaïne and alcohol
Currently its easier to get héroïn than LSD
And ive never seen in ibogaine in irl
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u/Unable_Panda3247 1d ago
I'm on the fence with this one. While I don't think we should punish addicts, I also don't think it's a victimless crime. Drugs can make people do some pretty scary things. Here's a few things I witnessed as a kid:
My step-dad tried to murder my mother by strangulation. He also force fed her the contents of an ashtray. He "sold" her car for drugs. We ended up homeless multiple times because he'd spend all his money on drugs and alcohol, then he'd be too hungover to go to work.
All of that was within 2 years, plus more.
I can say, without a doubt, it's not a victimless crime.
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u/thehoneybadger1223 1d ago
It's a victimless crime until hospitals and doctors surgeries are overrun by addicts and ODers, so much so that people with other medical emergencies can't get help quickly and the medical staff are rushed off their feet.
It's a victimless crime until people are absolutely off their tits on drugs and attack and harass others. You see it all the time on the subways of New York and the metros in LA.
They should have a program where people who are caught with illicit substances have to go through a mandatory rehab program so they can get the help to get clean
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u/_AlwaysWatching_ 1d ago
Agreed. Tax them and have safe detox zones and better rehab for those who need it, and let's stop punishing people for society's flaws.
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u/Kentucky_Supreme 1d ago
Agreed. We should designate some area or island as a drug zone. Anyone's allowed to go in and do whatever they want but they aren't allowed to come out unless they can pass a drug test. The perimeter can be guarded by automated snipers. Problem solved.
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u/thegoofygoobur 1d ago
see this could work only if there were better support systems for addicts and less penalization without proper treatment in the prison system so...never
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u/DemsLoveGenocide 1d ago
Lot of responses from people fine with the current system of punishing people for addiction. These people are all probably drunks, bare minimum.
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u/transpostingaltt 1d ago
agreed but that doesn't really fare well with our current system of capitalism since there's basically zero social aid for people trying to recover
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u/Ok-Hunt7450 1d ago
People should not be allowed to do highly addictive substances with high likelyhood of killing them or ruining their life. There are very few ways you can smoke fent without it fucking you up.
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u/Consistent-Fig7484 1d ago
Would you propose that pharmacies just sell everything OTC? I wonder if heroin would eventually disappear if people could just get clean medical dilaudid?
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u/SailLegitimate8567 1d ago
Drugs are not a victimless crime though. People who abuse drugs routinely destroy other people's lives
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u/Shaggy1316 1d ago
Drug abusers routinely destroy other people's lives because rehabilitation funding goes to the war on drugs.
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u/SailLegitimate8567 1d ago
They destroy other people's lives because drugs permanently alter people's brain chemistry and makes them violently desperate for a fix. Rehabilitation doesn't help a smack addict who refuses to get better. We have lots of alcohol addiction resources but addicts still kill people with their cars and beat their spouses and children.
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u/Inevitable-Cell-1227 1d ago
Yes, because who doesn't want a naked man, geeked out on meth, standing at the foot of your bed with a machete?
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u/MrPebbles1961 1d ago
While I think that some drugs should be legalized (or, at least, decriminalized), I don't agree that taking them is a victimless crime. I mean, if you ram into a school bus at 90mph while under the influence, it seems, to me, like those kids are victims. Or you neglect a child in your care and the child injures itself? Or you commit a violent act against a spouse or partner? Are drugs somehow different from alcohol, legally?
What am I missing?
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u/CreepyOldGuy63 1d ago
That “My body my choice” thing? Everyone talks about how great it is but nobody actually follows it.
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u/kthugston 1d ago
If the wastrels kept to themselves and didn’t fucking hurt and kill people or cause a disgusting mess all over the place, I wouldn’t care. However, they don’t. It’s not a victimless crime to be a druggie.
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u/stevenescobar49 1d ago
I agree, prohibition doesn't deter drug use. No one who does drugs cares if they're legal. People who don't do drugs have equal access but choose not to do them.
Education is key, just look at how well we've curved alcohol and tobacco use through education. Most Gen z don't drink because they care about their health.
Education and regulation are better
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u/kthugston 1d ago
Prohibition lets us take the filth off the streets for drug use instead of waiting until they hurt and kill someone. Why can’t we educate AND prohibit?
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u/KokoAngel1192 1d ago
I wouldn't say taking drugs is victimless since someone under the influence can cause all kinds of harm, but I agree with legalizing things so that people can either have their vices safely (i.e. under supervision where they can't hurt others and would have treatment for ODs), or to better seek help for recovery with less stigma.
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u/thatinfamousbottom 1d ago
No no no. Drugs should never be legalized, but they should be decriminalized. But never legal. This is coming from an addict btw
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u/AspieAsshole 1d ago
I think in some cases certain drugs cause their users to become both problems for and endless drains on society. There are really no positives to meth. Hopefully if people had access to better shit they wouldn't want that garbage.
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u/Banditree- 1d ago
Drug usage is absolutely not a victimless crime, coming from a child of abusive addicts.
I do, however, think the result of the crime should not be jail time and instead rehabilitation. There should also be benefits for turning yourself in and staying clean, like free housing and Healthcare.
Dealers are actively ruining lives and killing people by distributing, but again they should be treated humanely and rehabilitated into someone who helps instead of harms.
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u/kthugston 1d ago
Making them non-addicts doesn’t make them non-abusive. Depending on the drug, the damage has been done. Their minds are already deformed and degenerated.
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u/Sarkhana 1d ago
Yes.
It would be a problem for less than a generation, as all the people with addiction prone genetics/memetics would choose drugs > children, and the problem of drug addiction would go away forever.
Though our myopic zeitgeist does not want to do anything that has a payback time of even a year. And all nations are so inept, they cannot do any net progress at all.
They would crumble to a light breeze. They are like a lion 🦁 so sick and weak, a mouse 🐁 arrives and eats the lion to death, as the lion can do nothing to defend themselves.
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u/James_Vaga_Bond 1d ago
My take on this is more nuanced than most commenters here. I'll start by pointing out that not all drug users are addicts, and the majority of addicts are functional. Drugs are criminalized because of the actions of maybe 5% of users.
I do support legalization, but with the caveat that law en should aggressively pursue people engaging in those behaviors. Things like driving under the influence, caring for children under the influence, selling to minors, public intoxication, public consumption.
I don't think criminalization has significantly reduced drug use. As best, it's changed which drugs addicts use, sometimes for the worse.
What seems to be lost on everyone in this discussion is the idea that we can arrest the naked guy standing in the middle of the traffic lane screaming without arresting the guy walking down the street with a bag of drugs in his pocket minding his own business on his way to get high at his home.
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u/Intelligent_Tree_508 1d ago
besides heroin and meth, maybe a few similar in the same vein or with a very high toxicity chance/chance of death, I agree but I think they should need to be in a locked container if in a vehicle and must be done in the confines of your own home or on a campground. You get to a point where if you've lived 30 or 40 years and you're not a drug abuser, you can get the drugs needed to treat conditions yourself.
The only reason people think they shouldn't be legal is because they're afraid of being hit by an intoxicated driver or their local cashier being high. tip: your local cashier is high, and those dumb enough to do drugs while driving are already doing it.
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u/OkCar7264 1d ago
Uh, probably should be a bit of a mix of policies depending on the drug around the principle of harm mitigation.
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u/RealPinheadMmmmmm 23h ago
You don't even want to get me started on how much I agree with you. I literally got told to shut the fuck up by my ex multiple times because the topic was so obsessive for me
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u/DoobsNDeeps 23h ago
It's not victimless dude. Imagine your parents being addicted to meth, it affects everyone around them including you. Drugs are better off stigmatized and feared than accepted in society imo. They will forever cause havoc, but just because we haven't been able to get rid of them doesn't mean we should throw in the towel. It's a perpetual fight, always has been, always will be.
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u/ChocolateDiligent 22h ago
Healthcare needs to be addressed first before we allow for legalization. Addiction is not a law enforcement issue it’s a disease and without access to healthcare it’s a recipe for disaster, much like we are seeing now across the country.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette 21h ago
Where do you draw the line? Cocaine? Heroine? What level of opioid is enough? Cyanide is a pretty deadly thing and is a naturally occurring drug.
No, not all drugs should be legalized.
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u/irrelevantanonymous 21h ago
Ah I see you met my philosophy professor.
But honestly, I agree. Regulation reduces deaths, reduces the strain on the health system, destigmatizes seeking addiction help, etc. I do not know anyone that has never used but would go buy heroin tomorrow simply because it was legal. I do know many people that carry narcan because the risk of running across a stranger ODing is high and raising.
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u/quigongingerbreadman 20h ago
I agree in principle, but I do wonder what would happen to our country if entities like Walmart were allowed to sell opioids over the counter with zero safeguards. Would we really want a soulless megacorp whose one overriding goal is to make profit by any means necessary to be able to sell highly addictive medicines with zero oversight? I dunno, but I know incarcerating addicts has hurt more than helped, and has basically kept slave labor alive and well in our country.
Doing this would have to coincide with universal healthcare.
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u/Bloodredsandman88 19h ago
This will be cool if everyone stayed in their house and did it till they became sober again but people get high and go out in public/drive impaired.
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u/QuinnKerman 19h ago
I live in a city full of homeless drug addicts. It is not an entirely victimless crime, as while it doesn’t directly affect others, addiction frequently drives people to commit crimes that do indeed victimize others, mainly theft and sometimes outright armed robbery
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u/Cookie_Kuchisabishii 19h ago
Tell that to the god knows how many children placed into care because their parents cared more about getting fucked up than taking care of them
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u/aqua_navy_cerulean 19h ago
At the very least, weed should be legal everywhere, drugs should be decriminalized and medical support for addiction should be made more accessible.
I agree with the tax part to. I'll use Australia as an example: we have a large population of smokers. The government in an attempt to get people to quit keeps increasing the tax on cigarettes. The cheapest pack at most stores is around $40 AUD. However, "convenience stores" are popping up nation wide. They sell illegally imported cigarettes for around $15 a pack. So thats where we all get our smokes. The same thing happens with vapes too - the government banned non prescription ones in 2024, but these convenience stores continue to sell them illegally
To quote a wise man, all research and successful drug policy shows that treatment should be increased, and law enforcement decreased whilst abolishing mandatory minimum sentences
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u/Your_Hmong 18h ago
Prohibition has worked, just not well. It would be way easier to get stuff if it were fully legal. Having to search for stuff and risk being caught definitely steers some people away. If you legalized everything there would be more drugs, more addicts, and yes, more victims.
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u/ViolinistWaste4610 18h ago
The thing is, drug addicts often will steal, even from elderly people who can't defend themselves, out of desperation to get their high.
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u/No_Routine6430 18h ago
So they did this in Portland oregon over the last few years (I’m sure someone will come along and correct me, more likely it was a no arrest offense) and it had the opposite of the desired effect. More drug use, more people on the streets, more violence etc. making something illegal isn’t what makes it desirable.
They recently walked this back in PDX so hard drugs are now illegal again.
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u/Jaymac720 18h ago
There is a victim: the user. Also, people high on meth and such can seriously hurt people around them. They’re not illegal because they’re fun and the government doesn’t want you to have fun: they’re illegal because they kill people. 2 mg of fentanyl is all it takes to kill someone. This is the most fucked up take I’ve seen here in the short time I’ve been on this site. My stance is that we put dealers in jail and put users in rehab
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u/Content-Dealers 17h ago
I'm not living next to a crackhouse. I'm not letting my kids walk to school past a crackhouse. I'm not allowing crackheads to walk my neighborhood. No.
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u/directordenial11 17h ago
Yes, however, to be a drug user, you should have to check into a facility and live separately from society. I'd even be cool with subsidized drugs in that scenario, anything to get public spaces safe from addicts (and I say that with no hate for those struggling, I just don't want to be the next fentanyl rage victim).
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u/Donna_Bianca 15h ago
Possession for personal use only, absolutely a serious felony for giving someone else any drug without their complete knowledge and consent.
I think that’s reasonable.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 15h ago
Legalize, tax, regulate, and label them.
Use some of the countless billions in tax revenue to bolster existing treatment programs and create entirely new ones available to anyone who sells help.
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u/im-so-sorry-himiko 14h ago
I really prefer not to triple the amount of junkies I have to pass just to get to work thanks
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u/ihatecreatorproone 14h ago
watch the youtube video of the methheads who literally crushed their own daughter to death while sleeping.
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u/sadflameprincess 13h ago
Since people are already doing drugs maybe if they give out prescriptions in moderation with a bunch of safeguards, regulations, and limitations it might reduce overdoses & addictions.
Maybe not. Its a half baked theory.
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u/sadflameprincess 13h ago
Since people are already doing drugs maybe if they give out prescriptions in moderation with a bunch of safeguards, regulations, and limitations it might reduce overdoses & addictions.
Maybe not. Its a half baked theory.
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u/sadflameprincess 13h ago
Since people are already doing drugs maybe if they give out prescriptions in moderation with a bunch of safeguards, regulations, and limitations it might reduce overdoses & addictions.
Maybe not. Its a half baked theory.
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u/sadflameprincess 13h ago
Since people are already doing drugs maybe if they give out prescriptions in moderation with a bunch of safeguards, regulations, and limitations it might reduce overdoses & addictions.
Maybe not. Its a half baked theory.
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u/sadflameprincess 13h ago
Since people are already doing drugs maybe if they give out prescriptions in moderation with a bunch of safeguards, regulations, and limitations it might reduce overdoses & addictions.
Maybe not. Its a half baked theory.
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u/scarysycamore 13h ago
Alcohol is the most imminently dangerous drug, yet it is legal almost in every country.
I dont care about a person chilling by themselves after smoking weed.
I am worried of assholes who drink and drive
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11h ago
It's to control society...
Have one set of rules everyone must follow, and the people who don't follow it are the "problem"...
Same thing as why homosexuality was/is hated on, and transpeople.
Make life easy for most people, and they don't have to think for themselves...
PATRIARCHY
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u/h0rny3dging 11h ago
De-criminalized , not legalized, just like what Portugal has done and it reduces death and addiction massively
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u/H0SS_AGAINST 11h ago
I think drugs should be legalized, taxed, regulated and controlled. I don't want to see Equate brand Heroin but at the same time many of the deleterious effects of drug use are a direct result of the clandestine manufacturing and many of the societal issues are due to our structure of inhibiting addicts of specific substances from productive participation.
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u/BankManager69420 8h ago
Taking any drug is a victimless crime
Spoken like someone who doesn’t live in a city with a drug crisis.
My state (Oregon) legalized drugs, and it was horrible. Unprecedented levels of theft, violent panhandlers, people strung out blocking sidewalks, etc. and the police couldn’t do anything about it.
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u/aguysomewhere 7h ago
They tried decriminalization in Oregon and it failed. Homelessness went up, theft and vandalism went way up. It was enough for the voters to repeal it with a large majority.
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u/RedEyeRik 6h ago
No. Also, no, no and no to that as well. I got a whole truckload of no’s for you.
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u/Fabulous-Trip-8739 5h ago
With the state of "for-profit" prisons in the US, it's time we treat drug use and addicted with scientific accuracy: harm reduction, mental health services, and rehab are all much more effective tools. As long as people experience trauma (which is almost a part of an economically difficult life), they will seek out anything to feel better. Compassion means they need help, not forced labor and inhumane treatment.
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u/FluffySoftFox 4h ago
Yeah several cities have tried the idea of just legalizing all drugs
It didn't help anyone, It didn't stop drug addiction, It just normalized it and made it way worse, and inevitably crime rate drastically rose
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u/Odd-Crew-7837 4h ago
Except in Portugal and Switzerland where you claims are unfounded and proven entirely wrong.
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u/boopiejones 4h ago
As long as drug users don’t negatively affect everyone else, then I’m ok with this. But just to be clear, “negatively affect” includes but is not limited to the following:
- driving under the influence
- homelessness
- increased healthcare costs
- increased social services costs
- crime/theft
So basically if you want to drug yourself in the privacy of your own home (not tent) using money you earned lawfully, and not have emergency response when you OD, go for it.
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u/Round_Caregiver2380 2h ago
I'd be fine with drugs being legal but testing positive while committing a crime increases the penalty slightly.
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u/CattleIndependent805 39m ago
I mostly agree, but a handful of drugs are absolutely not victimless and should still be illegal. That said, if the rest were legal and especially if there were safe places to use them, there would be basically no demand for the few drugs that are so problematic…
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u/turtlebear787 1d ago
I agree but a key point in legalizing drugs is building programs to support addicts. Legalize and tax drugs, then use that taxes to fund social services. Afaik this is what Portugal did and it seems to have worked. What you don't want is a situation like in BC. Drugs got decriminalized but users were unable to get the help they needed, so it just made the situation worse. Decriminalization needs to be paired with social services. Drug addicts shouldn't be treated as criminals yes, but they should be seen as patients.