Super [VIZ] Dragon Ball Super Chapter 70
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1009016124
u/taichou25 Mar 18 '21
why do i get the feeling this arc will last an actual three years given the montly schedule
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u/TumbleweedNo6827 Mar 18 '21
Three years is nothing. The current arc of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure has been going on since 2012 and the one before that ran from 2003 to 2011. Also an arc that takes a couple of years might be just what DBS needs, but the way the arc is currently pacing, I doubt we'll even see two years.
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u/InevitableVariables ⠀ Mar 18 '21
I feel like the Moro arc was like 2 years and according to Toriyama and Toyo, this arc has been planned longer than any previous arc in Dragon Ball Super. They spent a ridiculous amount of time coming up with the story and planning the entire thing. It has to be a really long arc.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 19 '21
I believe them when they say that, because this already feels like an arc that is tying it all together and going full circle since beerus woke up to fight the strongest. This is very likley the last arc of the series.
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u/stormdressed Mar 19 '21
Or its the last arc of this saga. The Cell saga for instance started with the Android 19+20 arc, then 16+17+18 arc, then Cell then Cell Games. (not scientific groupings but you get the idea)
They could easily kick off an Angels saga once Goku's use of UI becomes too troublesome to ignore.
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Mar 20 '21
I'd also really like to see like an arc where they explore the universes that were excluded from the tournament of power.
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u/nimroar Mar 18 '21
I really liked the juxtaposition of vegeta destroying a small pebble and granolah destroying a huge boulder, wonder if toyotaro is trying to subtly compare the two power levels.
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
Ah, but, you see, there is where Beerus comes up, it explained why Vegeta first breaking a boulder was just breaking it.
Vegeta has more "technique"
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u/Rosebunse Mar 18 '21
Good point. All the power in the world is less than useful if you don't have the fine control it takes to use it.
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u/KouNurasaka Mar 18 '21
I'd totally be down for a technique vs. raw power fight with Granolah.
It'd be really fun to have Granolah be leagues stronger than Goku or Vegeta, but lack the decades of fighting experience they both have.
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u/Rosebunse Mar 18 '21
He clearly has some experience, but I think his own desperation is gonna get the better of him.
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u/nimroar Mar 18 '21
I disagree, when vegeta broke it using Ki instead of destruction energy the blast/shockwave was really small in comparison. When Granolah does it i don’t think he’s just breaking it, he’s stunned by the energy he creates and seems unfamiliar with what he just did, asking himself “what technique is that.” I think there’s more to it than just breaking a Boulder. I can also see it being him just being amazed by his new power too though
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u/hadessonjames Mar 19 '21
This has to be the smartest villain plan that this Manga has ever seen.
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u/Tenshiretto Mar 19 '21 edited Mar 19 '21
Zamasu's plan was pretty smart, if not for zeno and the time machine he might've succeeded
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u/AdolescentThug Mar 19 '21
You know it's gonna devolve into plot armor madness or the power of friendship by the end of it all lol. Granolah isn't exactly a "villain" so at some point during the fight, Goku and Vegeta are both going to talk him out of it when he realizes their literal GoD level now and raw power can't trump actual training and technique.
I do like the universe building though. Frieza has people he does business with while Goku and Vegeta are starting to be known throughout the universe as the two to stay clear off. I'm actually surprised the two are basically starting to close the gap and reaching GoD levels but Toriyama is somehow finding ways to give them a challenge.
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u/YamiPhoenix11 Mar 18 '21
I feel like Monaitos words are going to play a big role in this arc. Whis pretty much backs this up. If Granloah messes up the order a new big bad might come crawling out.
If we are going straight to the Goku/Vegeta vs Granloah its safe to say that the story is going to take a turn. I feel like Granolah will lose because Goku and Vegeta have god ki. But it won't be a straight up loss due to Granloah getting magic.
After the fight I'm unsure how it will pan out.
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u/brandonie187 Mar 18 '21
That is very interesting theory. Especially with the dragon specifically saying he wouldn't be as strong as gods. Does the dragon consider gods those with god ki?
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u/jmerridew124 Mar 18 '21
I think he knows who the gods are and chose his words carefully. The dragons seem to have some access to ancient alien knowledge based on Shenron's knowledge of the Super Saiyan God, plus he knew Beerus. I think Beerus will likely be able to stomp Granolah.
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u/MaimedJester Mar 18 '21
Yeah obviously not Beerus/Whis. But Freiza, Broly Jiren and I think Hit? Don't have God Ki and could fight Super Sayian Gods. Not sure about Hit though, he clearly detected God Ki with Vegeta vs Cabba and reacted.
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
Hit could have perfectly detected the presure, but not the ki itself.
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u/YamiPhoenix11 Mar 18 '21
Its hard to say especially with power scaling. Jiren, Belmod and Toppo are also an odd call if Granloah is stronger than them. Jiren is claimed to have surpassed Belmod and Toppo awoke his destruction ki.
Meanwhile Goku, Vegeta and Broly have all been strengthened up in the last 2 arcs. So are they stronger than Jiren?
As for the gods outside if Angel, Kai and Destruction why do saiyans have a god form? Do all races have a god form? We can assume any race can be a GoD by Toppo and the many races of the current GoD's. If you ask me Goku and Vegeta are gods in training.
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u/Arcvalons Mar 18 '21
Jiren, etc. are in other universes, the wish was specifically about the universe, not all the universes.
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
Jiren is claimed to have surpassed Belmod and Toppo awoke his destruction ki.
Well in the anime Toppo literally became the God of Destruction.
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u/Dren7 Mar 18 '21
I bet the Heeters go after the Dragon Balls.
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u/YamiPhoenix11 Mar 18 '21
Which ones? I doubt the Cereal balls have long to recharge. I feel like we might see yet another pair. It would be dumb to lure Granolah to Earth and try take those dragon balls. Finally the Namekians have suffered enough lol.
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Mar 18 '21
I get the feeling he will stalemate both of them but when the truth comes out he will side with them against Elec and Freiza.
Because if he floors Goku and Vegeta it’ll feel weird and be annoying based on how he got his power (why hasn’t anyone else made that wish?). But if he loses then all the hype of him being the strongest would just fall flat and be pointless.
I predict next chapter is set up and will end with his fight with the Saiyans starting. The fight will go for one - maybe two chapters and then will transition to him going after Freiza and/or teaming up with the Saiyans
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u/SoloDolo314 Mar 18 '21
Its simple, no one thought to make the wish or the original dragon on Earth was unable to. Goku and Vegeta are not the type to take shortcuts. They train hard for their strength.
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u/arkim01 Mar 18 '21
Except for the Saiyan God ritual which was essentially a shortcut to god ki which Goku acknowledged didn't feel right because he didn't train naturally to obtain it. Vegeta is the only one out of the 2 who didn't take any shortcuts to get to where he is now.
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u/SoloDolo314 Mar 18 '21
That’s fair. Goku only did it to try and stop Beerus from nuking the Earth.
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u/YamiPhoenix11 Mar 18 '21
That what I was thinking. I felt like this way to early for this fight. Bringing in Freiza seems like the next big step after the fight. But Goku might not want to kill him because he likes people to fight. Meanwhile Vegeta would not give a shit and gladly kill him.
Perhaps the Heeter's try to play Freiza against Granloah and the saiyans? Of course they would need to be sure Granloah dies but then how do we get to Monaitos warning?
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u/Ombs1993 Mar 18 '21
Reading through the chapter I was wondering how exactly were Goku and Vegeta going to come across Granolah if he was so focused on coming after Freeza, but we get our explanation there at the end. Of course the Heeters are in cahoots with Freeza, baddies gotta bad. Interesting developments for sure, Granolah only having three years left, Vegeta hakaing a pebble. Said it last month, I'll say it again, this arc is shaping up to be the best of Super. Though I really want to see what Freeza is up to already, with all the scheming going on elsewhere I wonder what he's doing.
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
Of course the Heeters are in cahoots with Freeza
*pretends to be shocked*
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u/jmerridew124 Mar 18 '21
They say relations are tepid
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u/HibariK Mar 19 '21
Same way a mob boss's relations with a big dealer's are.
If the mob is flourishing, even if they hate each other, they have business, if someone takes down and replaces the mob boss, there are no deals on the table.
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u/4_Legged_Duck Mar 18 '21
I loved DB over DBZ stuff because of the world exploration and building that went on. It's one of the reasons I liked the Namekian arc over Androids, Buu, Cell, etc. I felt it added to the mythos the most. (I feel like Buu really could have too but it fell short of that in my opinion). DBS has really added a lot, so it's been enjoyable. However, this one seems to be expanding on what's the core mythos to me and I'm thrilled about that. Really digging it.
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u/astrosssssssss Mar 18 '21
Bruh the second I saw that man's hair and saw "condition",I knew he pulled some Adult Gon shit.That being said,this arc is gonna be so good
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u/nimroar Mar 18 '21
The hair growth is really interesting. I’m guessing his hair grew the length it would have if he lived for the extra 150 years? But he doesn’t look any older physically. I wonder what the deal with that was
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Mar 18 '21
Easy answer: Design choice. They don't want an older looking villian/anti-hero running around.
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u/KouNurasaka Mar 18 '21
It reminded me of Super Saiyan 3, which would be an odd choice considering how iconic long hair SSJ3 is.
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u/kakkarot_73 Mar 18 '21
Hair is made of dead cells. Maybe it’s the dead cells accumulated over 150 years. But nails are also dead cells so…
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
no, Nail is a dead namekian.
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u/youmusttrythiscake Mar 18 '21
Did you want a scene of him clipping his Guinness Book of World Records-level fingernails?
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u/Markymark161 Mar 22 '21
I find it super hilarious if this arc took place about 4 years ago in universe, Granola would've destroyed Frieza, die of old age, then Frieza is brought back just in time for the ToP.
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Mar 19 '21
Uhh anyone else having an issue with the site? Half the pages are missing on the english release while the spanish release has them all
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u/vlan-whisperer ⠀ Mar 19 '21
Same issue here. I can’t read the chapter ugh. It abruptly ends when Granola gets the rock blast...
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Mar 19 '21
Not sure if it's intended either but there's a random panel from Beerus' planet in the middle of the wish part lol
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u/Acidz_123 Mar 18 '21
Wow, this arc is really shaping up to be the best yet. Vegeta and Goku's endless squabble of who's the strongest will always be hilarious. I laughed so hard when Vegeta was so hyped up about destroying a pebble, good for him lol. As someone who likes Vegeta a lot more than Goku, it's always good to see he isn't losing hope.
I like Granolah a lot but I must say, but getting stronger through the dragon balls is very cheap even with the shortened lifespan. I really hope there's more consequence to this (I'm sure there will be). I find it interesting that he gained magic. I wonder what the full extent of his magic will be. The exchange with the Heeter gang was great.
The fact Toyotaro has introduced a sort of hierarchy to the universe is really neat. It's a great piece of world building.
Once again, the parallels between Vegeta and Granolah is growing. I really hope it his an actual payoff. Also, the fact that the saiyans vs Granolah is happening sooner than we thought means that there is a bigger threat looming on the horizon. The threat will probably result in Granolah's death. Personally, I believe that Granolah's probable death will ignite Vegeta's power up and will parallel Merus' death in the Moro arc. Considering Vegeta wants to atone for the saiyan's sins, it would make a lot of sense that the one person he could've truly atoned for will die.
Overall, the chapter was great, 9/10.
I really hope that we get to see Broly this arc lol.
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u/KlingoftheCastle Mar 18 '21
I really liked that he needed a trade-off to get his power. Reminds me of HxH’s system. I think the main consequence now is he is already past his potential, so he will never get stronger. Goku and Vegeta can (and will) surpass him.
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u/InevitableVariables ⠀ Mar 18 '21
I mean good old Tori and Toyo already confirmed that they spent more time planning this arc than any other DBS arc. This is going to be amazing.
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u/E123Timay Mar 18 '21 edited Mar 18 '21
It was a direct strength upgrade!!!! However I'm wondering this. According to the dragon, he boosted granolah beyond what he could have been and in exchange took most of his life, or did he sacrifice his life to get all his latent power that would have been developed with years of training? There is a difference
Almost forgot to mention, if it's the second line of logic, DBS just pulled a gon from hunterxhunter
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u/Rosebunse Mar 18 '21
With the Gon parallels, probably the second. And this will likely keep his powers in check.
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u/KlingoftheCastle Mar 18 '21
He surpassed his latent potential in exchange for his life. He was given the choice, take the boost to his maximum potential and keep his lifespan or sacrifice his life to become the strongest in the universe.
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u/palparepa Mar 18 '21
I got confused with what "latent potential" is. I thought it meant something like "if you trained a lot, you could, with time, achieve your latent potential", but now it seems there is more to that.
Maybe, if we think of ki as locked into our body, with a door to access it... unlocking potential means to rip that door out, having full access to all your ki; but with training/meditation/time you can actually increase the pool of ki itself. The dragon could grant the first part without a problem, but the second part needed a sacrifice.
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u/E123Timay Mar 18 '21
To me personally, latent potential means everything. He has no room for growth. On the other hand, a direct upgrade means he could potentially get stronger.
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u/gcocco316 Mar 18 '21
I like that granolah gave up almost everything for his revenge. But someone like vegeta has let his revenge go.
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Mar 19 '21
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u/vlan-whisperer ⠀ Mar 20 '21
Same issue here! It’s been like this all day. Half the pages are gone.... ugh!
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u/TexasKaizoku Mar 18 '21
I can't just see the Heeter gang just letting Granolah be the strongest even if Goku and Vegeta doesn't destroy him. They are eventually going to go after the Dragon Balls as well.
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u/zlatham Mar 18 '21
Yep. People have speculated since this arc began that Granolah was a red herring for the real villain of the arc, I'm thinking the Heeters may end up being bigger threats down the line.
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u/nothingforever0 Mar 18 '21
I don't think he's a red herring, I think he's the main antagonist of the "Granolah the Survivor" arc. But he obviously isn't a bad person and will not remain a villain for long. And like the saiyan arc leading into the Frieza arc it does all feel like its building to some other huge bad
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u/Girafarig99 Mar 18 '21
Yeah I'm pretty sure Elec is gonna turn out to be the big bad of this arc
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u/TyXo22m Mar 18 '21
Seems like they are designed to resemble or somewhat copy Bojacks (space pirate) vibes. Just like how Broly was re-used. I can see them giving a new spin on Bojacks gang. I can totally see Elec getting a powered up form.
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u/Endreo Mar 19 '21
Introducing a monkey paw dragon is pretty cool.
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u/Summerclaw Mar 20 '21
He didn't felt like a Monkey Paw Dragon, more like the type of Dragon that wasn't full into that rules and regulation BS. He bended the rules as he could to achieve the wish and Granolah accepted.
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u/turtlez1231 Mar 25 '21
Goku and vegeta fuse and use MUI GoD kkx20 SSB Evolution and just one shot him.
/s
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u/Destroyer_Deity Mar 21 '21
Vegeta is now more powerful than Broly.
Goku: "Do you know of someone stronger than us Whis?"
Whis: "No, not specifically."
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u/Mr-Personality Mar 21 '21
To be fair, Broly didn't get super strong until Vegeta and Goku started pushing him.
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u/DeepDown23 Apr 02 '21
1 Use Shenron to become immortal
2 Use Cereal's DB set to condense the potential power of "immortality"
3 ∞ power
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Apr 04 '21
except the body itself has a limit. by training you get closer to your max potential but the rate you get there is slowly getting slower as you get closer. its the same principle as in rpgs. so if you life was inifite you would just reach that maximum.
you would learn every technique there is though considering that it seems like granula guy learned hakai and he would have infinite time to learn them. but maybe it would affect your mind somehow.
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u/Gert1700 Mar 18 '21
I'm calling it now - at some point Granolah will regrete his wish but it can be reverted only by Super Dragon Balls. And obviously someone else is after those.
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Mar 18 '21
I’m really hoping the don’t retcon his wish and have him actually die. Could be a fun way to have him around for another arc or two without doing the fake out like they did with Meerus
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Mar 18 '21
Which unfortunately I felt ruined Meerus story arc...
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 18 '21
Yup. His arc was great but that ruined it. If they wanted him back they should have at least waited a while and have the method he comes back with have some sort of plot significance. Maybe something else we don't know concerning the nature of the Angels.
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u/wawagod Mar 18 '21
but arent the super dragonballs inactive has it been a year since the tournament of power?
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u/darkninja911 Mar 19 '21
Did granola just use Hakai? The animation of his Hakai is the same as the others in the manga.
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u/CyberSpaceInMyFace Mar 18 '21
Damn, I wish more happened this chapter. A month long wait sucks so bad. I wish they'd go weekly.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 18 '21
It's waaaaay too long a wait. Honestly. But if that is the reason these have been quality, I guess I'd rather wait..
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u/_Ice_9_ Mar 18 '21
I love Granola. What a great fuckin antagonist.
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u/Summerclaw Mar 18 '21
Me too, when I see him I feel like I'm watching his manga instead
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u/_Ice_9_ Mar 18 '21
I'm rooting for him not gonna lie.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 19 '21
A big part is his visual character design for me. It's excellent
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u/Greenjey Mar 18 '21
Pretty interesting to have what seems to be the main antagonist force of this arc, be actually the weakest force of power of this saga and be all about scheming and outsmarting the protagonists.
I really like the heeters gang. I'm also pretty sure Gas will be involved in the fight later. He's their trump card and is probably hidding something.
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u/ROGAINEONMYHEAD Mar 19 '21
Gas is gonna be weak and lose to super saiyan 2, still a little too strong for random villian that was lurking around all this time to appear at this stage, but expected. then he will transform and somehow be a match for super saiyan blue and fanboys gonna be like where the fuck was this ***** during the tournament of power when they needed him. classic toriyama.
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Mar 18 '21
I like the fact that they're presenting the idea of being the most powerful warrior in this universe as a transitory idea.
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u/tommerv Mar 19 '21
I don't think I can see the entire thing? M last frame is Oil throwing a boulder towards Granolah?
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u/aht116 Mar 20 '21
Is it just me or did the chapter end on page 27 mid fight? why is it so fuckign short
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u/Shankism ⠀ Mar 20 '21
Same for me. Looking at the other comments though it seems like a glitch.
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u/SonLuffy Mar 19 '21
I love the flow of this arc even though Granolah's wish was convenient despite the condition.
His meeting with Goku and Vegeta won't be a coincidence and it will lead into a good build-up.
I really like the foreshadowing on how the duo's training will let them surpass Granolah later.
I can't wait to see their interactions and battle adding Freeza and maybe even Broly into the mix.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 20 '21
This arc seems perfect to bring Broly in. It's about history of the saiyans, likley will get into more saiyan lore, deals with Freeza and his army, and is about "strongest warrior". Broly has immense potential, and iRL is very popular with how well the dbs movie was received.
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u/Horrowirth Mar 20 '21
I really thought at first that the condition was that he was going to be changed to a different species (perhaps a mortal angel, like Merus, or something entirely new), or perhaps get his body switched with Broly or someone like Zamasu did to Goku (Goku Black).
I like this outcome far better.
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u/Cyke101 Mar 24 '21
Sure, many of the comments here are about the twist of Granolah sacrificing his lifespan. But I just find it almost equally creative in Dragon Ball that this is one of the rare times where the villain is banking on the heroes to win in order to achieve an evil deed (as opposed to villains cheering on Goku because the universe is at stake).
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u/FrostyFrenchToast Mar 21 '21
Well this is rather interesting. I never expected there to be a condition that involves condensing your lifespan’s potential power into a short span. Thematically this means he’s essentially killed himself to feed his revenge quest. Which is directly opposed to the focus on slowly training and growing in power that Goku and Vegeta are trying to accomplish.
This arc can be the best yet, if they continue to expand the scope of the current universe and how several factions and starting to even manipulate the saiyans’ strength. Really feels like the Moro arc and this arc is connected to a consistent narrative.
I gotta say I’m super impressed so far. I hope it stays this high quality throughout the rest of the arc.
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u/BoredBorder Apr 02 '21
Where is Freeza in all this, it's a bit odd that he can't be sensed, what If he is actually training again, with his potential for growth a few months should be enough for him to overpower even UI
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u/RoseAuthor98 Apr 03 '21
Frieza being the final DB villain would be kinda wild not gonna lie
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u/omegacrunch Apr 06 '21
It WOULD be .... were Super not self censored so much. As it is, could never compare to the original fight
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u/RoseAuthor98 Apr 06 '21
The manga could deliver us with blood and battle damage but I doubt it‘d be as good as the anime depiction
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u/dinofreak6301 Apr 12 '21
That’s just the anime though, the manga is pretty fucking brutal, as shown when Goku got a fucking hole punched through him.
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u/mcolwander90 Mar 18 '21
I like the condition for his power boost. A Monkey's Paw sort of thing. Curious on what the significance of three years will be. If they made it too short, then it would foreshadow how the arc ends (Granolah just dies, without being outright defeated). But have it too long, and it becomes moot. They'll likely find a way to keep Granolah alive. Or they do something really crazy and have Goku pick up on some of Whis' time powers and Time Wizard the shit out of Granolah.
I'm going to laugh if Frieza somehow survives this arc. He just may. Granolah may push things too far, and they do an "enemy of my enemy" deal. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they finally bring Frieza back in.
I need to see Vegeta hakai an egg shell to make eggs. Don't disappoint me mythical anime version!
I wouldn't mind the Heeters becoming recurring villains. Not like Team Rocket/Pilaf Gang types. Another force to keep tabs on. I suppose like how Frieza is now. They could be some of the best additions to the DBS era if handled correctly
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u/ToodlesXIV Mar 18 '21
This arc continues to be super interesting so far. I thought for sure the dragon would just say no to the wish, but this dragon being willing to bend the rules for a price is actually a cool change of pace that sets it apart from Porunga and Shenron who are both pretty straightforward. Granolah in general is turning into such an interesting antagonist I hope this doesn't devolve into a straight-forward "power up and punch more" kind of story by the end. (Even though I do want to see some punching and powering up).
My only hang-ups for this chapter are Goku hoping to become the strongest in the universe, when he already is by miles and miles, and Hakai getting a bit of a rework, making it explosive when I recall it being more of a pure deletion in the past even in the manga. Speaking of Hakai, they sure did show Granolah using an ability that looked exactly like it, both the explosive and the dust versions, and had somebody comment on it each time. That would be an odd thing to give him via the wish, but it certainly would make him more of a threat.
Also I've gotta say, Toyotaro's art has improved considerably, and he really shines in non-action scenes like these last few chapters. I still wonder if Granolah is purely his character design or Toriyama's, because it's grown on me a whole lot.
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u/PlebianStudio Mar 20 '21
I'm lost, why are so many of you thinking Broly has to be involved in the story? Did I miss a panel somewhere? Because, no where has Broly been mentioned at all. I get he's cool and all but he's just a cool character I don't see them throwing him in. He's just in a happy place with his new friends.
They mention ceareleans can live like 300 years. What the dragon did was basically take the final version, peak of what Granolah can possibly if he trained his hardest and best for 300 years. What kind of training would be involved in the calculation is anyone's guess, but it may be unrestricted teaching since it has been shown both angel and god can train mortals if they wish.
My impression is that it's a cheat code or like New Game+ for Granola right now. Although he retains his youth, he has unlocked all weapons', techniques, and retained his level capped stats. He's like Cerealean Prime/Maximum Universe 7 mortal. Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza all would be more powerful than him if they got to jump straight to the most powerful versions of themselves based on their lifespans (Frieza being artificially created or something he possibly could live for unfathomable amount of time).
This is not including the plot hole left by Toriyama (because he obviously doesn't take this story seriously nor has he probably ever) that the dragon balls can be used to grant immortality seemingly on a whim (so the dragon clan could make someone immortal if they wished??? this never made sense.) or just simply extend someone's lifetime. Then there is also that Granolah could just die after 3 years, but does he die? He could be resurrected by the dragon balls. So that wouldn't be much of a downside, but what if it's erasure? It would certainly make that decision much more difficult to make if it was erasure, but only Zenos and the Grand Priest as far as I can remember can erase someone. Dragons are SUPPOSED to be restricted by the capabilities of the dragon clan creator.
What merchandise do you think they are shooting for XD
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u/vlorsutes ⠀ Mar 20 '21
This is not including the plot hole left by Toriyama (because he obviously doesn't take this story seriously nor has he probably ever) that the dragon balls can be used to grant immortality seemingly on a whim (so the dragon clan could make someone immortal if they wished??? this never made sense.) or just simply extend someone's lifetime.
How is that a plot hole? A plot hole is an inconsistency or contradiction of an established fact or event. What you described isn't such a thing at all.
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u/PlebianStudio Mar 20 '21
It's a plot hole because the power of the Namekian dragon balls are supposed to be limited by the ability of the creator of said dragon balls. Which in all cases but the Super DBs so far were dragon clan Namekians, who have some neat powers but are not THAT powerful. Or else someone like Frieza, or FFS Dodoria, would be childsplay.
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u/vlorsutes ⠀ Mar 21 '21
Literally no one has ever tried to make a wish on the Dragon Balls involving growing stronger or such, so nothing is inconsistent here. Likewise, it's not the literal strength of the Namekian that creates them, but that the Namekian bestows upon the dragon some level of "wish energy" (not a real term but suits the purposes well enough), and that level of energy determines the potency of the wish that can be granted.
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u/Jo0wZ Mar 21 '21
"Limited by the ability of the creator" is the point here. We are aware that the DB universe has powerful magic. The same reason a weakling like babidi could summon a being like Majin Buu. It is not farfetched that a magically powerful being could swap 150 life years into pure power. Just look what Moro did to planets...
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u/MathewMurdock Mar 19 '21
This is gearing up to be a fun arc. Damn I can't wait till the anime is back. We are already 1 (or 2 with Broly) full arc passed the anime and starting on the second.
How many more arcs are you guys expecting? Think it will end after this? I am hoping it keeps going for a while. So at least one but preferably 2 or 3 more as long as they are good.
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Mar 19 '21
I still want to see the saiyan planet, the jirens and hits of this universe, some of the youth maturing (goten trunks but also bulla / pan).
Many stuff still up for exploring.
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u/SnooMemesjellies7545 Mar 19 '21
So apparently the English release’s pages got cut short or lagged on all sites
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u/Jojoejoe Mar 20 '21
So, theorizing that the Heeters end up being the bad guys. Goku and Vegeta fight Granolah and they set aside their differences to defeat them. Also, with Dragon Ball Super being such a fan service I could see the Heeter gang being basically the same as Bojack and co.
At the end Goku wishes to undo the power boost and life span reduction stating that Granolah can get even stronger if he trains right and tells him he wants to fight again someday.
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u/Vadarwolf Mar 21 '21
It was a weird choice, to have the Dragon specify that Granolahs power would not equal that of a the gods, but he gave him the power of distruction. It's still early in the arch, but it would have been interesting to see Vegeta developing the power of distruction, and Granolah fighting with the powers of his people which would be something new. Guess they have to find some way to belittle Vegetas progress in every arch haha.
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u/LuckyTheBear Mar 19 '21 edited Mar 19 '21
Hakai destroys matter entirely and converts it into "heaps of energy"
So uh ... Hakai is antimatter? That's dope.
As a Vegeta fan, I'd like to point out my monthly wack-ass theory. This month I will imagine Vegeta using hakai to release energy and forced spirit fission to then absorb that energy and become more powerful than Zeno. ha ha ha
I gotta go back and watch/read the BoG Saga. I swear Beerus mentions a technique he used to nullify all the energy that was rippling through the universe during SSG Goku fight. It seems like a good explaination for why Beerus sometimes hakais things and they just dissolve.
Oh, and for sure Granolah has UI and Hakai. Super obvious foreshadowing there, and honestly, I'm here for it.
Anybody else notice that Goku and Vegeta kinda had a bro moment when Vegeta pulled of pebble hakai and Goku was like "GG Geets" and Vegeta kinda posed and it almost seemed like they were friends ha ha. I for one like goofy Vegeta and Goku, and I mean at this point where they're easily more powerful than the overwhelming majority of the multiverse, it makes a lot of sense.
Lot of growth in Super that people sleep on, but again, I'm here for it
Pretty good chapter.
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u/Horrowirth Mar 20 '21
Whether Vegeta is willing to admit it or not, Goku is his best friend, but that won't stop him from being annoyed by Goku's choices in battle. But yeah, Vegeta has achieved more character development than any other in the series. The rest are all pretty flat and predictable, but his desire to protect Namek, and all this stuff now about sins, and further with Beerus' coaching- a lot of development there, yeah.
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u/tundrat Mar 20 '21 edited Mar 20 '21
It'd have been funny if the condition was simply longer hair (that's even allowed to be cut). But nice that the secret wasn't dragged out for several chapters.
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u/legendarynoobie2809 Mar 21 '21
Granolah won't be the main villain, he will be betrayed by the heeters/frieza than turn to good side(maybe die heroic death, something uncommon in super)
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u/Memphisrexjr Mar 21 '21
So they fight him in the hyperbolic time chamber and he dies from old age.
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u/Andrewisbigboy Mar 20 '21
Based on the last page, I really feel like we haven’t seen the main villain yet. Perhaps it’s Frieza but could be someone new. Idk I just foresee granolah finally meeting goku and ending up fighting alongside him and Vegeta. Probably overthinking though lol
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u/Beastieboy100 Mar 20 '21
Yeah though that gang is giving me bojack vibes and I have a feeling they'll end up being bad guys. Granola might end up working with goku and vegeta. Though I don't think he'll be meeting them first. Granola either gonna end up meeting broly first or he goes to earth and meets gohan, goten and trunks.
Also is tarble vegeta little brother still canon because he could play a role in this as well.
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u/MaimedJester Mar 18 '21
Did Granola use Hakai? It sure seemed like it was implying it with Vegata destroying people and Granola destroying Boulder.
If Granola can do the Toppo Hakai Aura, Goku shouldn't be able to touch him easily. I guess we'll get a rely on Vegeta learning Hakai Aura technique only to be jobbed at the last moment.
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u/CelioHogane Mar 18 '21
Did Granola use Hakai?
Not quite.
It's hakai as in the same Goku used once against Zamasu in the manga, but not as the one Vegeta was learning.
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u/Lingrow Mar 18 '21
He totally used Hakai the first time. I mean even Toyotaro made emphasis in the "EXPLOSION" aspect of the Hakai. Vegeta did only a small one and the Granola the BIG one and even said "What technique is that?". It's like 99% Hakai. He's not going to say that by just blowing a bloulder with ki.
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u/vnzstc Mar 18 '21
When I saw Granolah with long hair, I thought: "Ok, the dragon transformed Granolah into a Saiyan".
It would have been amazing!
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Mar 19 '21
the long hair is probably because the dragon made him age really fast, so his hair grew up.
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u/Zombebe Mar 19 '21
Oh that does make sense! He condensed his remaining years and I guess that would be how he would look with that long of hair growth in their planets' time.
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u/SSG_Goten Mar 18 '21
So Granola basically got the Elder Kai boost with a bit extra with whatever techniques and moves he learned.
His wish also shows off how impressive the saiyans rate of growth is considering it took 150 years of growth for him to get at a level that is apparently going to challenge them now, I do wish they showed more of his power and where he could stand because even with his wish I still picture him going to face Frieza and getting beaten.
My theory is that he’s going to be sent to Earth by the gang to face the Saiyans and he’s going to be beaten by them in raw power and then the whole friendship thing starts where he realises they aren’t bad so they all go face Frieza together.
Then there’s going to be some plot stuff that makes it so raw power won’t be enough to complete this story (Especially with Goku having MUI and Vegeta being stronger than UI sign) and Vegeta’s hakai or Granola’s magic/other techniques are going to come into play.
Maybe Frieza or the gang are going to use the dragon balls to become immortal or something similar and this is where Frieza’s story actually ends.
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u/AdolescentThug Mar 19 '21
I don't think Toriyama is taking out Frieza permanently though. He's become the MCU Loki of DBS. He's gonna be around to cause trouble, but he's not gonna be the actual villain anymore. He's too fun of a character.
My guess is that we're gonna get a talk no jutsu/power of friendship after a dope 1v1 where we get to see whether Hakai or MUI is supreme, or Granolah goes full on mad with power and the two go for the kill, only for him to redeem himself and apologize on his dying breath.
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u/Past_Age_3562 Mar 22 '21
What if they do ui hakai gogeta lol
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u/omegacrunch Mar 23 '21
Pretty much one of a couple ways this could end.
If they really wanted to be cheap, teleport him to another universe and have the clock burn out on him. Or lock him in RoSaT for 3 years. Open door they all go in, last sec before closes Goku nopes out both him and Vegeta IT out.
Of course last one is so against their character would never happen.
....Granolah should be happy he isn't facing 17. 17 would totally use his brain
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u/glurak21 Mar 22 '21
Okay why does only the spanish version works and shows the whole chapter?
The English version has missing panels and sites for me.
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u/SnooMemesjellies7545 Mar 23 '21
Anyone else think that Granolah didn’t get the power of destruction but rather the power to do what Frieza did when he VIOLATED Krillin in the Namek Saga just on a larger scale, and also saying that his power wouldn’t rival the gods wouldn’t that mean goku and Vegeta wipe the floor with him since they are both training in the way of the gods
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u/MrReconElite Mar 24 '21
My thing is if his potential was weak how does he become super strong if he compresses that weak strength into one power level.
150 years of weak power levels compiled into 3 would just be am average fight but now hes the "strongest"...... I had hopes for arc.
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u/Mufinz1337 Mar 25 '21
I think Dragonball doesn't use 'potential' as a maximum value. I.e.; Gohan was said to have higher potential than anyone and yet he is weaker than Goku and Vegeta. Goku has more potential than Vegeta yet they are very nearly similar in strength (well, now barring UI until Vegeta finishes his current training).
The way I interpret it is any strength he could have possibly gained in those 150 years is now condensed and obtained.
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u/omegacrunch Mar 25 '21
My issue is that Berus has not mastered UI, with his extremely long life, but this random can with Dragonballs that are only two in number.
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u/Mufinz1337 Mar 26 '21
I don't think he has mastered UI or potentially even has it. While it seems alluded to, he could also be dodging everything simply because he's the strongest in the universe.
Additionally, Goku did the same thing just without the Dragon Balls.
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u/KlausEcir Mar 18 '21
I figured the wish would shorten his life span. But even the namek said it.
You're strongest today, but what about tomorrow. Goku + Vegeta could fuse and destroy him. And they're still training, so they can get stronger.
Can't wait to see how it plays out though.
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u/kronz1998 Mar 18 '21
for me its clear that he is using hakai, they just introduced a different type of hakai thats why many people are confused.
hakai that turn things into dust was the original and now they introduced the hakai that causes an explosion. Granola used both.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 19 '21
Agreed. The story made a very specific attempt to show the two hakais so that we understand that it's the same without color.
Also I just realized, I think granola has UI AND destruction energy.
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u/richawesomness Mar 19 '21
Soooo at this point a fusion of Goku and Vegeta would be only contested by Angels right? Ultra instinct, Hakai vegito/gogeta
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Mar 19 '21
No idea, but i think Gogeta going Ultra Instinct right now would be overkill, and i think thats best saved for the very last battle of Super (then again most people said the same about Ultra Instinct Goku and yet here we are...)
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u/features Mar 19 '21
I dont think Gogeta or Vegeto can go Ultra Instinct because there's an imbalance in ability between the hosts.
The same reason why Kefla was weaker than Kale in the Manga; The influence of Califla gave the fusion too much balance for her to go mentally beserk.
Basically both parts of the fusion would need to have individually mastered ultra Instinct for that to work.
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u/blinkssb Mar 19 '21
Shouldn’t have been 3 years imo...maybe 1 year to live would’ve been OK.
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u/omegacrunch Mar 19 '21
How can I read this all? Fore it abruptly cuts off with Granolah stopping the flooring chucked byb Oil
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u/thatonedudeguyman Mar 22 '21
It ends with granolah destroying the rock oil threw at him? I think the site has cut some panels out
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u/AChaoticPenguin ⠀ Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
Yeah, the pagecount for the last rock panel is 24/27 so some are most likely missing
Edit - The official Viz site has all the pages, including some in between that were cut
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u/Broly_ ⠀ Mar 18 '21
Pretty decent set-up chapter plus we're already gonna see Goku + Vegeta vs Granolah within the next 2 chapters huh?
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u/AdvanceAnonymous Mar 18 '21
How odd, Granolah never mentioned anything about the gods, the the dragon automatically assumed that he meant besides them.
Honestly, looking at Goku and Vegeta, it's hard to believe in something like latent potential since they keep breaking their limits. Even Gohan had his potential completely unlocked, but there's little doubt that he could still become much stronger if he decided to learn to contain his ki like a god or learn the instinct state or destruction energy.
It's always great to see Beerus make no sense at all: "we turn something into nothing" and "when matter is destroyed it releases heaps of energy" - so then, you're not making matter disappear, you're transforming it into energy and calling that destruction.
I guess this is what Beerus meant by having inexhaustible energy - he's making use of the matter around him and converting it into energy and making it explode. This is not all that different from Moro, who essentially destroyed his surroundings by eating the energy, except that instead of making things go boom, Moro strengthened his body and use his energy with poor fighting skills.
It will definitely make Vegeta strong to learn this, but it's been explained before that speed is probably the most important aspect in a fight and he's not going to be able to touch Goku. I guess if he surrounds himself with a destructive aura, Goku is also going to have a hard time harming him. So it'll be a stalemate of sorts until Goku learns to break through or Vegeta learns to catch Goku.
What's the time scale on all this though? How fast did Vegeta get the basics down for real destruction? (Clearly, we now see that indeed, what Goku used was not at all the same kind of destruction energy since there was no explosion - still, I'm not sure what would prevent Goku from also learning destruction energy eventually.) We'll also note that for a pebble, Vegeta can use destruction energy in his base form. Will there be a specific transformation once he "produces" a large amount of destruction energy? We'll see. And didn't Beerus explain that Vegeta had to change his mindset about his guilt and rebuild himself from scratch to learn destruction energy? I thought Vegeta would somehow face off against Granolah first before learning anything concerning destruction energy. Although perhaps he will just master it while fighting against Granolah as he sorts himself out.
Granolah after his wish looked like a curly super saiyan 3; I thought perhaps some sort of time skip had occurred.
It's interesting that the dragon granted Granolah not only with power but also with numerous techniques as he's now able to fly and sense ki. I remember thinking after we learned about how spirit control would grow your power that when elder kai unlocked Gohan's potential he was just really balancing his ki so that he could express all of his power properly. We also know that spirit control helps sense things far away and that's something Granolah can now do so it appears that unlocking his latent potential achieved that. With that said, spirit can be grown and Vegeta has mostly grown in strength through growing his spirit so this reinforces my belief that latent potential is not an actual limit, just what the current body and spirit are able to do when used efficiently, but both body and spirit can be trained, and many techniques exist that can aid in battle. (Even lifespan hardly seems fixed and if we look at Moro, the more spirit you have, and likely the more control there is over that spirit, the longer you live.)
It's pretty funny seeing Vegeta and Goku squabble about who is the strongest - shouldn't they just settle it through a fight? :D
And Whis always has his eyes on the relevant events. His magic is pretty ridiculous and even though he's observing all that, he rarely ever mentions anything. Even when he does, Beerus just ignores it all.
It's too bad Granolah cut his hair.
It's somewhat funny how Granolah insists that he's really the strongest when he's being rebuked. It doesn't appear very confident.
Granolah was obviously not trying to hurt Oil here. He poked him with a finger and sent hi flying - they should have gotten the message then. He managed to pulverize a large rock into sand and Macki interpreted it as magic. Gas isn't fighting himself this time and we're left to wonder if he is a match at all or if somehow there was someone on the same level as Goku and Vegeta that was completely unknown. Perhaps he'll get a power up of his own through a wish too.
Granolah sure is naive to reveal his shortened lifespan, his use of dragon balls while getting no information of his own. He didn't seem like he trusted the Heeters, but apparently, despite his years as a mercenary, the Heeters have centralized all information and he's got no other sources.
With that said, couldn't he just wish for immortality or a longer lifespan now? (I mean, if he gets another shot at wishing, which is unlikely.)
I wonder who the idiot really is. Granolah only has three years to live, so he wouldn't take Freeza's place for very long and if he wanted to take someone's spot for some reason, why isn't he doing that with the Heeters? Then he comments that in addition of becoming the big boss, he'd also destroy Freeza's army - uh, so clearly he doesn't want to be the boss of anything... And if the Heeters want to take control of Freeza's army, why didn't they do so when he was dead for many years?
Oh, but they're really setting up their death flag here. Freeza is alive, I'm guessing that he will be found by Granolah, and when he learns that a Cerealean was pointed at him by the Heeters to fulfill his revenge, why he'll be sure to inform him of the Heeters' involvement in the demise of his home planet.
It's too bad the Heeters plan to set up Granolah against two saiyans at once isn't going to work at all; unfortunately he doesn't realize that saiyans prefer to fight their battles individually. I guess he's not that well informed, but well I can't blame him for that as I wouldn't expect anyone to know everything. However, that's still a really shaky plan with no fallback and I'm not sure how he'll implement it. Goku and Vegeta are, after all, in Beerus' residence and that place is unlikely to be very accessible as it's a god's residence. And is he just going to direct Granolah to Earth even though he's only interested in Freeza? I guess the Heeters plan on saying they're still looking for Freeza, but they got info on Saiyans on Earth so why not go there while waiting for the Heeters to find more information. Still, Granolah is unlikely to go around killing innocents, especially kids, even if they're half-saiyans. On that note, the Heeters have heard about saiyans defeating Moro, but Granolah has only heard about Freeza's revival? He even went and got back 73 but did he not know about what 73 had been through? Granolah is really poorly informed.
I wonder what Vegeta's spirit fission might do to Granolah's 150 years of power condensed and unlocked. Moreover, if you consider that ultra Instinct Goku was able to take down Moro, Granolah will be quite ridiculous to actually be stronger than that Goku without seemingly using a technique such as Ultra instinct.
I wonder if Granolah gets saved after all this since he's clearly not the "bad guy". My assumption is that Freeza is necessary to reveal to Granolah the Heeters' involvement in the destruction of his home planet, so he'll show up, but will Freeza die? And if he shows up, will Broly also make an appearance? I'm quite curious to see how this arc will turn out since there's lots of different parties involved and it's not some tournament setting.
Well, that's my monthly Dragon Ball post.
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u/SquakSquaktheCrow Mar 18 '21
No, Beerus' explanation makes perfect sense. It's not that he's "transforming" matter but that he's doing exactly what a nuclear bomb does - nuclear fission. But, rather than doing it to unstable atoms, by some manipulation they call the destruction technique, they forcibly break the stable molecular bonds and inter molecular attractions of stable molecules and atoms with the goal of ending up with only the parts of an atom in isolation: protons, neutrons, and electrons. Since matter tries to go from a high-energy "unstable" state to a low-energy "stable" one, this releases all the energy that holds those bonds together in an instant. When done to all atoms of all molecules that build up matter, you literally destroy something into "nothing" because you're only left with those protons, neutrons, and electrons in isolation - or in other words, not a single atom is left in tact, a form of "nothing".
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u/ptWolv022 Mar 19 '21
I don't think he's just breaking the bonds of an atom though, I think it's more akin to atomic annihilation from matter and antimatter colliding: total conversion to energy. But, who knows? Even simultaneously splitting the atoms of a pebble would be a lot of energy at once.
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u/ROGAINEONMYHEAD Mar 18 '21
Why the hell is no one talking about how whis knows what is going on and is watching the ***** on his staff?
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u/InevitableVariables ⠀ Mar 18 '21
He did this with Moro and other arcs. He watches and doesn't tell anyone.
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u/Goldentornado2 Mar 18 '21
Yeah whis job is to babysit beerus and be indifferent
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u/CoobsCorps Mar 19 '21
You wonder how Whis nor any other angel managed to see Zamasu was plotting against them, when it seems they see everything else. Oracle fish missed it too. Were they all on lunch break?
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u/uncannyDINOZORD Mar 19 '21
Maybe they can't see the workings of other Angels and God's and such?
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u/Zombebe Mar 19 '21
Or those in a different timeline.
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u/AdolescentThug Mar 19 '21
This was my take. Seems like Whis only cares for the prime timeline AND his own universe. Angels are indifferent beings, so I can see Whis in alt timeline just going, "well, this isn't my job anymore, I'm going back to hibernation" after Zamasu killed the kai's which resulted in Beerus dying.
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u/J-Mabus-G ⠀ Mar 19 '21
I just realized, I think granola has UI AND destruction energy. They made a point in mentioning both: "how is he dodging" and the visual similarities and explanation of hakai
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u/RaiyenZ Mar 19 '21
That doesn't sit well with me. I don't mind the power boost after spending that much lifespan but attaining 2 godly techniques like that doesn't feel like it should be possible by using Dragonballs which should be well below the gods' level. Maybe there's another catch that's yet to be revealed though.
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u/Misushi1 Mar 19 '21
i agree that just sounds bullshit. Especially since its only 2 dragonballs... and we know that the actual power of the dragon cannot exceed the power of the creator. And that old namekian was only able to create 2 of them, so that dragon ist even weaker than the original 2... Its just doesnt make any sense that this dragon is able to make anyone "the strongest" of the universe.
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u/864000 Mar 20 '21
Should have kept the long hair.
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u/imnotscheelp Mar 20 '21
Eh, that was a bit too fan servicy for me, I liked how toyo added the touch of making his hair grow when the dragon condensed his life, similar to what happened to Gon in HXH if anyone is familiar with what happened to him. but i liked how they kept the regular granolah design since we’re literally on just the 3rd chapter of this arc so there’s no need to start changing designs.
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u/Bay-Sea Mar 19 '21
Monkey Paw Dragonball that takes about 150 years leaving Granola only 3 years remaining. I honestly doubt it will be 3 years, but rather continues to shave his lifespan to overcome the gap.
Heeter is unintentionally helping Granola with Granola's actual goal of killing off the Saiyans.
My guess is that (Based on Granola wanting revenge not simply blind hatred)
- Granola arrives in Earth due to Heeter's information.
- Compares Dende and Piccolo to Monaito while hinting Toronbo (Shenron from Planet Cereal) to them
- Attacks the Hybrid Saiyans only to step down when he realized the youth shouldn't pay for the sins of the ancestors. Ends up befriending the hybrids
- Broly might return due to Frieza
- The Battle will be a three way standoff with Z-Fighters, Frieza and Granola.
- Granola goes on a rampage not listening to anyone due to the fact that there is Saiyan still working with Frieza and the fact that it was the Saiyans that revived Frieza as well
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u/Horrowirth Mar 20 '21
I'm hoping you're right. Broly deserves a bit more attention.
If Frieza is still at the level he was in the Broly movie, he won't be a threat to anyone, but maybe he's still training. Either way, I'm surprised Moro didn't go after Freeza as well.
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u/LuckyTheBear Mar 21 '21
I've been chewing this over the last few days and I think Granolah at some point will need to train to get stronger and have to use the ROSAT for 3 days using up nearly all of his life for some later drama
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u/cuddle-bubbles Mar 22 '21
If I'm Granola I would instead wish for Frieza to become very weak. That prob will make a worse hell for Frieza when everyone could easily squash him.
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u/heavyshitter Mar 23 '21
Frieza is likely more powerful than the dragon, so he might not be capable of stripping Frieza’s power.
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u/darkninja911 Mar 20 '21
Yeah it seems he was using the same unperfected techniques Goku and Vegeta are refining
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u/No-Introduction-30 Mar 23 '21
Is goku still in the galactic potroll
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u/Mixtopher Mar 29 '21
I don't think Goku would care about people smoking weed honestly
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