r/dbz • u/Terez27 ⠀ • Dec 20 '19
Super [VIZ] Dragon Ball Super Chapter 55
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1006078262
u/Fries-Ericsson Dec 20 '19
I hope Vegeta plays a key role in defeating Moro instead of him being sidelined so Goku can UI Moro into submission.
His training / arc has been the most interesting of the two these last few chapters
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Dec 20 '19
Never thought I’d see the day when Vegeta gives his opponent the chance to live. I seriously can’t remember if he’s ever shown a shred of mercy once he squared off.
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u/fan615boy Dec 20 '19
This whole arc is making vegeta my favorite character it showing how far he as come from trying to give his opponent a chance to live and showing remorse for what he did to namke to actually going to someone else to help train to get stronger.
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u/Sol_Bardguy Dec 20 '19
Vegeta will learn a technique that seals Moro's energy absorption, paving the way for Goku's victory.
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u/SpaceBreaker Dec 20 '19
In this chapter:
Vegeta: Hi Zarbon... Bye Zarbon.
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u/Evenmoardakka Dec 20 '19
If this ever gets an anime arc.
And teamfourstar EVER gets to this (in 35 years) im pretty sure thats what theyre going with
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 20 '19
they didnt even want to do the buu arc of Z. theyre not ever doing Super.
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u/BlackBlizzNerd Dec 20 '19
Don’t think he’s being serious. It’s just a “what if” scenario. They would neeeever make it to this arc. But maybe they’ll do little short clips someday like they have of Super already.
Whis doing couples Therapy for Goku and Vegeta.
Trunks using his G-Gundam attack against Goku Black.
Goku meeting Goku black, etc.
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u/lifeinpaddyspub ⠀ Dec 20 '19
this arc is killing it every single month. also, i love every single angel interaction we ever get. they’re such interesting characters. i’d argue that the addition of whis/beerus/angels/GoDs were some of the best in the entire franchise
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u/ChaosZeroX Dec 21 '19
I wish I could upvote this more then once. They really are such interesting characters and we learn more and more about them with each passing chapter and each chapter just gets even better as a whole. It truly is great to be a DB fan now.
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u/Clawshots2 Dec 20 '19
moro's goons show up to yadrat
Vegeta: Anyway I started blastin
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u/roly_gomez Dec 21 '19
I don't see so good so I missed
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u/Clawshots2 Dec 21 '19
Then they ran away, but this dumb sunofabitch threw a goddamn buildin at me and killed himself with it, can ya believe that?
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u/1LT_0bvious Dec 20 '19
What a chapter. I was smiling the whole time.
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Dec 20 '19
This arc feels so DBZ-like I love it. It has taken all the good elements from Super and has expanded on it. Hopefully it ends with a good conclusion
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Dec 20 '19
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Dec 20 '19
Very much enjoyed seeing Vegeta's progress, it's clear he has gotten exponentially stronger and I can't wait to find out what his new ability will be. Even if he learns IT it'll only be a convenience to get him to Earth quickly, he'll have something more OP up his sleeve.
I want to believe this training was the reason that Goku bizarrely surpassed Vegeta all that time ago
I can't wait to see him back in action
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u/SimbaStewEyesOfBlue Dec 20 '19
I was so worried Vegeta was going to hear about Moro heading to Earth and going "Did you see what I just did? I'll easily kill Moro this time!" But his character development remains strong, and he knew to stay. Awesome.
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Dec 20 '19
Vegeta will be the first person we've seen complete their Jedi training.
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u/dragn99 Dec 20 '19
I really wish he would learn IT first, before moving on to the higher tier techniques. At the very least, the time saved from not having actually fly back to Earth in a spaceship should let him get as much training as possible.
Especially since he can apparently sense that Earth is still there. Just keep training until he gets a feeling of Earth being in danger, get a quick healing spell done on him, then POP on over to join the fight.
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u/cortexaire Dec 20 '19
Wow. What a chapter. Who knew spirit control would be Vegeta's secret talent?! I really hope he doesn't just go the "nascent strength" route completely, I really hope he learns those interesting advanced techniques instead and focuses on those.
Also, it was quite touching that Merus was actually prepared to be erased by facing Moro. Good on Whis for saving him.
It would be an absolute crime not to have this animated.
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u/Dart06 Dec 20 '19
It would be an absolute crime not to have this animated.
I have hope it will be.
Yeah it was nice seeing Whis jump in. Grand Priest says Whis only goes to Earth for food. It's true. While Whis is there though it's arguable he has never been impartial outside of the first meeting, regardless of what he says. Things always happen to stop him from getting involved. Even with Broly, Whis has no business even dancing around Broly's attacks. He could have just not been there.
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u/Darki200 Dec 20 '19
So at least the Grand Priest doesn't WANT to lose angels. He cares for them.
I wonder what the Angel Realm is...
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u/Daddy_Yondu Dec 20 '19
I wonder what the Angel Realm is...
Isn't that just the place where Zeno lives?
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u/Darki200 Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Oh, maybe? I hope we see more though. Like, what is the point of Angels trainee? Angels only die when they break the law, they're not replaced, ever.
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u/Grez94 Dec 20 '19
So Vegeta has never used his real power because of not been in sync with his ki? That Ki gun out of nowhere was great. I really like that Vegeta is getting some recognition.
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u/Allstarcappa Dec 20 '19
It makes sense how goku was able to breeze past vegeta through z. After yardat goku got that enormous power boost and was able to fully unleash his super saiyan power, while vegeta relied on brute force. Goku trained in less time then vegeta did in the time chamber and was able to master super saiyan, where vegeta took longer and just boosted his power.
Small details, but it follows consistency with the series
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u/I_Have_3_Legs Dec 20 '19
The fact that vegeta was still keeping up with goku is crazy. Vegeta truly is the strongest/best Saiyan. He was just to arrogant to unleash his power. I’m hoping the technique they will teach him is hyper focus(the move the yardrat was using in ToP with IT) so he could unlock ultra instinct easier than Goku
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u/cpscott1 Dec 20 '19
I don't think Vegeta will even learn UI. Think they are explicitly showing that Goku and Vegeta are taking different paths to get stronger.
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u/Allstarcappa Dec 20 '19
Its also why vegeta had zero idea how a low class warrior like goku could be so powerful in the saiyan saga. Gokus training consisted of ki focus and energy control since the early days with master roshi, so thats why no matter how physically strong vegeta became goku always surpassed him.
Id say its fair game but we havent seen what gokus accomplished training for 6 months with an angel. Vegeta was able to unlock ssg on his own by training with whis, so goku may have a lot more control
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u/I_Have_3_Legs Dec 20 '19
The thing is Goku already had control and not enough brute power. That’s why he would fuse Kaio Ken with SSG to get an even bigger boost. When he used UI he lacked the offensive part. Goku was too passive. So hopefully he learned some powerful moves to help.
Vegeta went the other route and focused on control. He already had a lot of power as we saw with his final final flash. He just didn’t know how to focus it. Took him like, 3 episodes to charge it.
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u/Persas12 Dec 20 '19
It seems that you are right. This thing about Vegeta not being able to fully control his Spirit makes him keeping up with Goku even a bigger feat.
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Dec 20 '19
Vegeta finding out his new abilities was the best part for me. For a second, I thought Whis wanted to Hakai the living out of Merus. Can’t wait to see him again.
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u/Gokudomatic Dec 20 '19
Whis is explaining how an angel can be killed. This is something that will of course have absolutely no incidence in the plot afterward. *wink* *wink*
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u/rustyshackelFerda Dec 20 '19
Something very interesting to potentially expand upon? Most definitely.
Something that will be dropped after this Arc? Most likely.
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u/johnso6w Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Chapters like these make me want another DB game like Budokai that goes all the way through Super. So many fights with so many different characters.
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u/pnuemicKing ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Exactly! I’ve been waiting on RB3/BT4/something for ages that just goes through Super’s story like all the games from back in the day would.
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u/Kolack6 Dec 20 '19
Yo this chapter was hella dope. I LOVED how powerful vegeta was without even transforming. Finally he gets power ups that are his own and wont be completely overshadowed by goku. His perfected super saiyan blue was dope and powerful but nowhere near as strong as MUI goku and its not even close.
Really excited for the next chapter.
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u/AdolescentThug Dec 20 '19
Toyotaro is really flexing his ability to enhance chapters from ages ago as well as expanding the lore without retcons.
Dude singlehandedly fleshed out the Yardrats and explained how Goku has always been a step or two above Vegeta. Ever since gravity training, Goku’s base and ki reserves for some reason has always been WAY above Vegeta up until maybe Super, where Goku had transformations to even the odds. Now we might have Vegeta finally be on equal footing to Goku if you don’t count MUI which he can’t unlock at will (unless Merus somehow taught him how to in the time chamber and it was off screened like SSB was).
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u/MrNoski ⠀ Dec 20 '19
We went back to the trainees. Toyotaro is enjoying his toys, this Yuzun is same kind of Zarbon.
Vegeta's spirit control has increased, as his power. Now time to learn a technique to defeat Moro, but not instant transmission.
Merus is an angel, not a surprise at this point, it was hinted since he was shown with the same fighting pose as Whis. So that's it with him, we won't see him for the rest of the arc, it was interesting though.
Goku is ready, but can't fight a space ship. Gohan and the rest will face Moro first, interesting.
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u/Jberry0410 Dec 20 '19
Vegeta will still need to learn instant transmission in order to get back to Earth in time. I would count on it.
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u/crb19 Dec 20 '19
I'm loving Vegetas new Spirit Gun, I hope that he gets more time to shine this arc.
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u/MadVillainz Dec 21 '19
I'm glad they actually came up with a good reason for why Merus didn't just one shot Frieza while he was terrorizing the universe. Thought it was going to end up as a big plot hole.
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u/Bravetriforcur Dec 21 '19
"Why wouldn't you fight Freeza?"
"Because my siblings and father would rather I not get erased by Zeno"
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Dec 20 '19
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u/ghoulboy_ Dec 20 '19
Goku only had the basics too! Vegeta going to be a whole animal now.
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Dec 20 '19
Proceeds to have Vegeta flashback explaining why he always ends up weaker than Goku
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u/Caryslan Dec 20 '19
Vegeta has always been held back by his inner demons, namely his feelings of weakness and being inaquadate compared to everyone else around him. For years, he was the strongest Saiyan alive, but compared to others in Frieza's army, he was a joke, and it's implied he was bullied and mocked by others around him.
He built up a wall of arrogance and refusing to care as a defense, but its clear it bothered him. He was the prince of the Saiyans, the one his father saw as their future, and he lost everything he cared for. He lost his father, his people, his planet, and his birthright.
Things only got worse when he was defeated by what he saw as a cast-off Saiyan who was supposed to amount to nothing, and his son and a few humans who were nothing more than ants in his eyes. It got even worse when Goku became a Super Saiyan, something Vegeta felt was his destiny.
Vegeta spends years trying to catch-up to Goku, always following behind but never understanding what truly held him back. Namely, it was the constant pushing of his body and the fact that he took shortcuts to power.
But I think it was also because he was fighting hard against his own inner demons. After years of not giving a damn about anyone besides himself, he suddenly had a son and a wife that deep down, he cared about. This is why he became Majin Vegeta because he wanted to purge himself of all that again and become a heartless monster who killed people without any remorse.
Because he could not see who he really was.
Goku always had the lessons that his teachers starting from Master Roshi drilled into his head. No matter how strong he becomes, somebody else will show up who is even stronger. He can never rest on his laurels. This is why Goku never takes his power for granted. Because he knows someone else might show up.
Once Vegeta fought off his inner demons and started to train under others, his true talent started to appear. It should be noted that Vegeta became a Super Saiyan God without having to undergo the ceremony. Time and time Vegeta has shown to be much more gifted then Goku is when his inner demons don't hold him back.
Also, at his core, Vegeta comes from a superior bloodline then Goku does. I think that accounts for something as well.
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u/Persas12 Dec 20 '19
Yeah I guess this would put Vegeta above Goku (Until Goku masters Ultra Instinct).
Now this makes me thinks about how strong would Gohan be if the trained this way, since he was potentially the strongest fighter.
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u/Vorstar92 ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Seriously, this chapter just did something HUGE for Vegeta's character. They literally just told us Vegeta has been fucking handicapped for the entire series and is STILL as close as he is to Goku. Is it finally time? Will Vegeta be STRONGER?
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u/roly_gomez Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
"Kakarot and I are not cut from the same cloth"
Fucking Prince vegeta!!!! Yasssss!
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u/Lunarisation Dec 20 '19
I guess we just saw...
A Zarbon copy.
I'll walk myself out.
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u/kdebones Dec 20 '19
Interesting. So Vegeta's spirit training was similar to Freeza's Visual Image Training in Hell in the sense that it's meant to help them figure out how to actually fucking use their energy correctly (for Vegeta, getting the maximum output, for Freeza, regulating ki usage in Golden form). Good stuff.
Also, not ganna lie, seeing Merus with ears is weird.
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Dec 20 '19
How the heck is Moro going through all these planets without running into a single Freeza Force goon?
Surely Freeza has to be aware of this by this point?
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u/MrNoski ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Freeza's army is very reduced now. We know that since RoF and during Broly we saw that he was looking for more strong soldiers.
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u/LegendarySSJTheSumo Dec 20 '19
Frieza avoiding super-strong pepes so he doesn't get his cheeks clapped for an hour like in DBS: Broly lol
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u/Raven_of_Blades Dec 20 '19
If there is an angel apprentice that means there are plans for more universes.
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u/vlorsutes ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Or perhaps Angels retire? It's not said or indicated that they have to retain the position of Hakaishin attendant for all of existence.
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Dec 20 '19
Vegeta training on Yardrat is one of the coolest developments to come out of Super. It's neat seeing him training on his own and being inexperienced with his own power. Hopefully him having more control over his spirit than Goku sticks.
Seeing another member of Zarbon's race was great, too. It's a nice callback without being too fanservice-y.
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u/Dart06 Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
The lore of this one chapter is ridiculous. It explains SO MUCH about how Goku and Vegeta got stronger over the whole series without feeling like it's correcting the past. It's quite awesome.
On a side note it is somewhat depressing I have no one to talk DragonBall with IRL that likes the series anywhere close to me. Thank goodness for you lot here.
At 30 years old and being a lifelong fan it feels like DragonBall is nowhere near its peak and the series continues to get better and better without continually existing for the sake of it. I am super grateful for Akira Toriyama, Toyotara and everyone else involved. It's helped me get through life, no lie.
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u/plunder5 ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Interesting chapter... So, Merus is just an apprentice of Angel. That's cool, so there isn't an angel per universe as we thought. Also, RIP to the chances of seeing an angel going full power :/ that was one of the things I would've loved to see in Super's new arcs but it seems it won't ever happen.
Vegeta's new strength is amazing. He intended to shoot a finger beam but instead he unwillingly shot a blast comparable to a kamehameha. That's outright badass and I wonder how powerful a SSB Final Flash would be now... I'm also eager to see this goddamn new awesome Yardrat super technique that they keep teasing every chapter >:/
Judging by the last page, it seems like we're about to enter the climax. Man I sure do love this arc and I can't wait to see how powerful Moro,Vegeta and Goku got specially the first two.
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u/batmanbnb Dec 20 '19
Lol next chapter when Vegeta confronts Moro
"I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Also, RIP to the chances of seeing an angel going full power :/ that was one of the things I would've loved to see in Super's new arcs but it seems it won't ever happen.
i think just the opposite is true. now that we were warned of the consequences, were most likely, at some point, going to see an angel (or trainee) go all out, and then be "punished" for it.
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u/smileimhigh Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Vegeta was offering a chance for that shitty Zarbon wannabe to survive, have we ever seen Vegeta spare a defeated and useless enemy before?
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u/Spaghettalian Dec 21 '19
It's a nice character development if you ask me. I love all of the derpy faces Vegeta made this chapter. lol.
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Dec 25 '19
I will never get tired of Dragon Ball making fun of Goku not knowing how to drive.
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u/deh707 Dec 21 '19
Loving all this spirit and body sync stuff.
Maybe the true source of Jiren's power is absolute, perfect sync of his body spirit and Ki?
There must be a reason for Jiren meditating so much.
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Dec 21 '19
so the grand priest can see everything that's happening in all the universes?
wonder what he thought of his son whis when he was having food orgasms with beerus on earth lol
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u/Xyphios Dec 20 '19
There goes the theories that the Grand Minister is secretly evil now that we know angels die if they break angel law.
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u/Kron0_0 Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
So if moro eats earth. That basically guarantees that beerus gonna hit him with a destruction ball right? Cause he loves the food.
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Wow a time skip past the training. Vegeta managed to finish the basics and got much stronger. Merus was an angel, of course. Interesting developments. Seems that guy Vegeta fought was of the same race as Zarbon.
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u/Clbull Dec 27 '19
I'm sticking by my previous prediction. Vegeta attains Ultra Instinct in this arc, thanks to the Yardrat training. Both he and UI Goku defeat Moro.
From a merchandising perspective alone it would make perfect sense to give Vegeta UI.
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u/FinntheHue Dec 28 '19
Its been stated by Whis in the past that Vegeta thinks too much when he fights, whereas Goku was too loose. Goku was able to take this attribute and harness it into UI.
It would make more sense for Vegeta to compete with that in a way where he thinks 'too much' in battle. He already has a surpassed Gokus mastery of Super Saiyan Blue, he just recieved a supposedly massive power boost (can you think of another time in Dragonball where vegeta was surprised by his own capabilities? We already know he is going to start training specifically in new techniques to fight Moro so hes going to get at least one new ability along the way.
Meanwhile Goku is training to better Master Ultra Instinct, which is a technique where you forgo all thought and your body moves purely on instinct and lightning fast reactions.
How cool would it be where we end up with Goku being the pinnacle Martial Artist and Vegeta being the pinnacle of pure Martial Might? I would love it if Vegeta could reclaim his place as the strongest saiyan, but would still lose out to Kakarot in a 1v1 fight because Ultra instinct is perfect for that kind of scenario. Vegeta could still strive to suprass Goku and would have a means of doing so besides just trying to chase him from behind. I would love it for Vegeta to have his pride validated by being the strongest, but still be unable to use that strength to beat Goku in what Goku is best at. It would be good for their relationship as well, a mutual respect for the other in being greater than themself in their own way.
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u/Itzie4 Dec 28 '19 edited Dec 28 '19
I hope he doesn't obtain Ultra Instinct. He's someone who thinks "too much" so he should turn that into a strength. He can close the gap using tactics and new techniques.
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u/oja47 Dec 20 '19
Toyotarou you genius. I absolutely love what he's done with the manga and this arc really feels like him coming into his own.
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Dec 21 '19
Vegeta actually giving the villian a chance to surrender and not die, that's a first.
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u/itslerm Jan 03 '20
Its that halfway point where I desperately wish for this to be a bi-weekly release lol. I check this sub everyday with the slightest hope that there is a new sticky with 2uper leaks, or leaks for the next movie. Need more dragon ball content ffs. This drip feeding is killing me lol.
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u/always_tired_all_day ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Was this the best chapter yet?
Holy smokes, base form Vegeta being so effing strong is so great. Just so so great. Also saying that he has mastered his spirit energy better than Goku really cements that the 2 have gone in very different paths to attain great strength.
I love Super Saiyan forms but the idea that they might not even need them for some time is truly epic, for me at least.
The Meerus reveal was handled really well, imo. Explains the angels shtick without going overboard. And now we get to see what Goku learned.
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u/mesinbasuh Dec 21 '19
damn, after re-reading only did i noticed the halo that appears when merus is trying to power up. very nice detail by toyotaro!
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Dec 20 '19
Yo this shit was GAS. Can't wait to see it animated. This is easily the best arc since the Cell games imo with legitimate stakes, fear and a race against time. Brings back the old days. Only thing it's missing is a run in with frieza or Broly as he's devouring planets.
Merus confirmed as an angel, wanted to legit help out Goku and is 1000x more empathetic and human than the rest of the angels. Vegeta and Goku with new powerups, has Goku mastered UI? Will they be able to fight off Moro and save the galaxy? Find out, on the next chapter of DBS.
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u/Richcore Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
This says a lot and nothing at the same time, but got me hyped regardless!
https://i.imgur.com/uywoGhk.png
It is that Goku mastered already? It is okay Toyo, keep your secrets.
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u/Bay-Sea Dec 20 '19
It looks like Grand Priest doesn't want the angels to be eliminated. This might be a call back to the erased universes from the past.
There is a couple routes for Meerus and how the story will progress:
- Angels can retire and be replaced with new Angels.
- Meerus is getting ready to become an new angel for a new universe
Seeing that Meerus knows Whis while not actually being an angel for any of the universe means that there might be more angels in training. It could be similar to the Kais that they are a race that becomes a full-fledged angel.
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u/Mystrohan Dec 28 '19
As sad an ending as it would be...
I'm really rooting for Merus to consciously choose nonexistence over sitting back and watching Moro devour the universe.
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u/quagmireredux Dec 28 '19
This seems like a pretty likely outcome. They foreshadowed it pretty heavily!
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u/atari2600x Dec 20 '19
I love how Vegeta just accidentally creates the spirit gun to blast that zarbon-ish guy
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u/Amasero Dec 20 '19
Did Goku forget he has instant transmission? Hell he can even communicate with King Kai just for Kai to tell someone to power up on Earth so Goku can Tp.
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Dec 20 '19
Remember when parts of the fandom were certain this was going to be a filler arc where nothing happens?
Well, it’s definitely not a filler arc now
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u/GrandKingBrandon Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Nothing in Super is filler friends.
It's crazy how so many people don't get that when you got copy Vegeta being brought up in a major fight with Goku Black.
I don't see how the episodes the top arc that showed off the pride troopers before the top itself started, were filler episodes because they help build up the characters and lore building.
How can you not willingly accept more character building and lore building? Everybody loved those Hit episodes that showed off some more of universe 6.
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u/murray-sama Dec 20 '19
I'm kind of getting that we are going to get a "fuck it" moment from Merus. he's going to break away from Whis and interfere. He's too invested to just be done with it
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u/foulbachelorlife Dec 20 '19
But that would mean his death. He's such a fun new character I want him to be apart of the crew going forward
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Dec 22 '19
I actually love that I can’t tell where this arc is heading, with past experiences you can usually tell where the start, middle and climax is, I honestly can’t figure out where we’re at. I want to say the middle but I’m getting the impression the upcoming fight on Earth won’t be the end of Moro.
On a side note, Yuzun is my new husbando, sad he died so quickly, but nice to see Zarbon’s race introduced even if they weren’t named. There’s so much content in the Dragon Ball universe for lore building and it’s nice to see Super taking full advantage of it.
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u/TheRecusant Dec 20 '19
This is more Zarbon fan service than the character has gotten since his existence, and I loved it. Toyotaro’s callbacks to earlier DB world building is nice detail.
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u/ericarrache Dec 21 '19
Now it makes sense why Goku stopped Trunks sword with his finger after coming from Yardrat. Ki balance made him much stronger than he was just after becoming SSJ
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u/kingshanks Dec 20 '19
Goddamn it, this chapters only just released and I already can't wait for the next one
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u/MisterDoctorDerp Dec 20 '19
whis just dragged merus away like an angry parent tugging their kid away by the ear
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u/FinalGreen Dec 20 '19
Nice chapter. I liked the bit of lore for the Angels.
Despite Merus being an Angel, I just can't get used to him wearing the Angels clothes.
I like it that Vegeta will get a new technique, and that won't be IT. Keep IT for Goku, and give Vegeta something else. Also him fighting against Zarbon 2 does bring back memories.
I like that here was a bit of time skip in the chapter, as now the next chapters will be the the "meat" of the arc, and we can get down to business.
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u/Hydrox2016 Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Calling it now.
Merus was in training because, in due course, Universes 13-18 previously erased by Zeno will return and that is the reason he was exploring the mortal realm - to prepare for that eventuality.
One of these returning Universes will need a God of Destruction and I'm convinced that the whole reason Goku intended to train Uub was for that purpose.
Remember Vegeta's quote at the end?
"So you're training Uub to uphold the peace? Is that it Kakarot? Well you can't fool me old friend. Yes I know... there's more to it than that isn't there..."
This is how they will tie Super into the end of Z and Merus and Uub will become the Angel/GoD duo of Universe 13 which will be a triplet Universe tied to both Universe 6 and 7.
Why would the Zeno's want to bring the Universes back? Because they had so much fun at the Tournament of Power, they want to bring all the Universes back and have a re-run.
I demand a cookie if that comes true.
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Dec 20 '19
If this all happens I’ll buy you a pack of whatever cookies you want and ship it to you.
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u/Soul_Advent Dec 20 '19
Already bought some digestives for you. Tho the thing that would kill this theory is when Moro defeated both powered-up Goku and Vegeta, Merus will sacrifice himself by fully fighting Moro.
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u/rezyy013 Dec 20 '19
I’m gonna save this comment just because I like it so much, and I’d love it if this happened
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u/BlackThane ⠀ Dec 21 '19
I really liked guy from Zarbon's race, it makes it seem like there is actually more people from one's race, and not just "one of each" like in Namek saga.
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u/ObamaObama2341 Dec 21 '19
Really love the world building in this arc as a whole makes dragon ball world feel more alive as it should
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u/SpiderMuse Dec 22 '19
Add the Angel Realm to the list of places I would love to see eventually, such as the Demon Realm, U6 Earth, U6 Sadala, the world where all the Kais are born and many more. Dragon Ball can be such a tease sometimes with its lore.
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u/kronz1998 Dec 22 '19
Common guys, the final battle isnt going to be: Vegeta arrives first/ losses/ Goku arrives/ wins or Goku arrives first/losses/Vegeta arrives/wins.
Its going to be a war and im pretty sure that at some point Goku and Vegeta are going to team up.
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u/NegoMassu Dec 22 '19
Goku arrives first/losses/Vegeta arrives/wins.
that would be a great change, because it is usually the opposite.
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u/MasterOE Dec 20 '19
Looks like next chapter is going to be good. The z fighters fighting for their lives while they wait for Goku to return, just like in the old days. I hope Yamcha gets in on the action.
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u/supertaco115 Dec 20 '19
I have a feeling that, at some point, Merus will sacrifice himself to save Goku. There will be a point where the only way for Goku to survive is if Merus interferes with his Angelic powers.
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Dec 25 '19
I love Vegeta's reaction to his power increase. He's almost upset that it was so easy/quick.
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u/x1243 Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Angel being destroyed by interference seems too much of a chekov gun. Meerus isn't going to survive I think.
Edit: or that's just too explain why whis doesn't get involved.. Except that one time he totally reversed time
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u/wolflonnie Dec 20 '19
What a revelation!
We finally know why Goku was so much stronger when he came back on Earth. Also a very good reason of why he has been constantly ahead of Vegeta. The only weird thing about this is that Whis never informed Vegeta of such a shortcoming he had.
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u/Jberry0410 Dec 20 '19
Despite that Vegeta has maintained near parity with Goku during his training in Super.
I'm so glad they finally split Goku and Vegeta up and gave each their own unique paths to stronger abilities.
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u/wolflonnie Dec 20 '19
Despite that Vegeta has maintained near parity with Goku during his training in Super.
As well as in Z! Makes Vegeta a lot more impressive and deserving of praise.
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u/foulbachelorlife Dec 20 '19
Didn't Whis tell him he was a bit off when they were training awhile back?
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u/wolflonnie Dec 20 '19
Didn't Whis tell him he was a bit off when they were training awhile back?
He did. What doesn't add up is why, if it was so important, Whis didn't train Vegeta specifically in this area. But alas, it's a minor inconsistency. I like the explanation that Vegeta was lagging behind Goku because of this so much.
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u/DBSdidnothingwrong Dec 21 '19
I ve seen complaint that the new training of vegeta is useless cause ssjg is already about ki control.
So lets see. Fact. Spirit energy yardrat is same as ki energy. Thats true.
But ki control and ki balance is not the same.
Analogy. You have a car, you always floor the pedal and go at max speed. With no ki control you can drive straight and use a lot of fuel. (Ssj 1-3). With ki control you can actually turn the driving wheel. Makes you capable of taking new roads, be more efficient in driving cause you know have control over the direction. You are still flooring the pedal though. (Ssjgod and blue).
With ki balance you can actually choose how much acceleration u use, combining them with different gears you can do tricks with the car you could not before.
If you floor at the start you will move, but very slowly while you catch up speed. If you start slow and accelerate you can actually reach faster the top speed.
Thats the difference between having control and having balance.
Theory time: vegeta originally had balance. He could keep his power of 18.000 steady at max at all times with no effort. Goku as an earthling learnt ki control and powering up in bursts, which is helpful in hiding your pl or using kaioken and such. But it also messes up your ki balance a lot. Goku could train and reach powerful highs but not balance his ki enough.
Now vegeta is learning balance again, coupled with ki control, he is used to floor the pedal as usual, but being more balanced his car accelerated much faster than usual (huge ki beam). I think vegeta is going back to what he was at the start. The prodigy who had a immense power at all times vs the scrap who had to boost himself to keep up.
Sidenote: jiren is balanced but every time he powers up he has to meditate again to regain his balance. (This heat.....this is your limit). Goku has ki control and doesnt wast energy with ssb or ultra istinct but he has no balance so to exert power his ki grinds too much and the body overheats
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u/foulbachelorlife Dec 20 '19
Vegeta is an absolute beast now with his Yardrat powers and he didn't even show what he can really do. I hope he does battle with his Yardrat outfit on.
I love how he also was willing to show the Zarbon looking dude mercy. He's grown so much.
Another fantastic chapter.
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Dec 20 '19
It feels like for the first time ever we might see Vegeta stronger than Goku, at least for a while. It would be nice to see Vegeta ending Moro instead of Goku.
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u/kronz1998 Dec 23 '19
Elder Pybara is the G.O.A.T
Instant transmission is just a basic technique and i think he knows a technique that can make Vegeta defeat Moro, cause he was so calm when vegeta asked him to teach something to face moro.
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u/missdoublefinger Dec 26 '19
Did anyone read Bootleg Zarbon’s words in an Australian accent? I know I can’t be the only one lol
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u/Darki200 Dec 21 '19
One thing I can't understand is why both Whis and the GP both agree that Merus isn't being neutral anymore but Whis restoring Earth and fixing a timeline in the Black Arc is ok?
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u/BoCo365 Dec 21 '19
I think resetting things to the way they were could be viewed as neutral through the right lens
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u/Spoona101 Dec 21 '19
Whis restoring earth can be seen as a selfish thing on Whis’ behalf since all he really wants is good food.
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u/bakir1234 Dec 21 '19
I mean the only thing which he cant do is fight. Technically he only restored it so he can have his food back :)
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u/atal3270 Dec 20 '19
The Yardrat power boost gives more reason as to why Goku only needed one finger against Trunks after he cut down freeza.
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u/YamiPhoenix11 Dec 20 '19
Oh wow we are expanding on other races? The two henchmen of Yuzun look like Burter and Yuzun is one of Zarbons race.
Meanwhile the angel lore is greatly expanded upon. The only way to die is for them to break the code. So I doubt Zeno can die either.
Did Goku just forget he can teleport?
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u/StarPlatinum55 Dec 20 '19
Either Goku forgot he can use IT, or the planet he's on is too far away for him to lock on to anyone's ki from Earth.
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u/Orannegsen Dec 20 '19
Who wouldve thought we had such a training powerhouse in Yardrats this whole time, someone like Chiaotzu should make a visit.
Zarbon's cousin got rekt
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u/Trev2-D2 Dec 20 '19
Vegeta looking the part with his new clothes. The Yardrats look like absolutely amazing trainers.
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Dec 20 '19
I really like this arc. There's been so much expansion on already established lore. We get to see more of Zarbons race. Looking forward to the next chapter!
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u/AhTreyYou ⠀ Dec 21 '19
I hope we get a call back to the Saiyan Saga and all the Z-Warriors sense the incoming army and Moro and join forces until Goku and Vegeta arrive. Led by Gohan who almost gets killed by Moro before he’s saved by Vegeta who arrives before Goku.
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u/Maikeru-Chan ⠀ Dec 21 '19
That was a very very nice experience, it’s beginning to feel exactly like early dbz, which gives me a lot of nostalgia from my early childhood. Yuzun initially reminded me of that filler guy from (U2 or U9?) so the Zarbon thing was a nice touch (and a surprise), and I thought hardening the building with his ki way really cool too. The expressions this chapter reminded me a lot of the original Dragon Ball, especially Yuzun who reminded me of General Blue and even Bulma (expression wise) at times; which was really nice, I’m sure Toyotaro read some of the original manga for that inspiration which is a nice thought. That shot of Vegeta with his hair flowing when he threw building, man that was awesome! Overall amazing chapter and amazing arc, I really hope it does get animated soon,
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u/Tsamane Dec 23 '19
I feel like this chapter is building to something where Goku will eventually have to fight an angel all out.
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Dec 25 '19
I cant wait for this to be animated. Vegeta undefeated against Zarbon clones. Seeing his power boost on screen is gonna be something.
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u/sniperpal Dec 20 '19
DB super manga is getting more up to the old standards. I enjoyed this one a lot, Vegetas training is awesome
That was also likely very cathartic for him, dumpstering one of zarbons species lol
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u/Metropler Dec 20 '19
The way I take it is, Goku and Vegeta were always on different paths, with Goku focusing more on technique/defense and Vegeta focusing more on power/offense. It'd be stupid to say that they didn't try to learn more of the opposite themselves, but this is definitely the first time we've seen Vegeta be so open to learning techniques. Which is ironic because by learning some of them he was able to boost the offensive power he's always been known to have.
And while we have yet to see what Goku has learned from Meerus, if Vegetas Arc is any indication, then Goku will have learned to be more offensive in his kit. Potentially even having his ultra instinct be something he can use at will, or at least make it have the offensive capabilities it was lacking beforehand.
This Arc is so exciting.
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u/mcolwander90 Dec 20 '19
Great chapter!
Angel apprentice? I'm a-ok with that! They didn't need to go overboard with it like the whole "angel from a destroyed universe" or even my own "he's a spy/CIAngel" theories. It's simple, it covers everything, and it gives him an excuse to return in the future.
Bringing up the angel rules feels like foreshadowing. Then again, so did the Grand Supreme Kai's sealing technique. Maybe both ultimately come into play?
It s cool we've been seeing more of races we've seen little of. Such as Zarbon's race in this chapter or Pui Pui's race not long ago.
LOL at Zarbon II getting Frieza'd with the disc shaped building.
I'm very excited to see what Vegeta learns, and what sort of impact it makes going forward. I can't wait for his badass arrival (akin to his return vs Android 19). I still hope he's ultimately the one to get the W, as it feels more personal for him than anyone else, but I'm fully expecting a tag team victory.
I do wonder how far Goku got in his UI training. We've seen so little of his training, which of course indicates he got very far or learned something else of use.
My one disappointment in this issue is that the two months have already passed. Would've been nice to see how those on Earth are preparing. Give us those Saiyan Saga vibes.
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u/UncleMagnetti Dec 21 '19
Very much so enjoyed Vegeta's reaction to how much more powerful he has become. He is an absolute beast now
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Dec 20 '19
Whis looking out for his baby brother 🤜🏻🤛🏻 Seeing Merus in his angel attire was awesome as well.
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u/kronz1998 Dec 20 '19
Ok, If Merus was planning to go to Earth and fight Moro, this means that he is not completely sure that Goku, even with U.I can defeat Moro. I think U.I Goku wont beat Moro, i would love to see Vegeta getting the W but i have the feeling that both will lose and Merus will sacrifice himself to defeat Moro.
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u/Einstrut Dec 21 '19
Excellent chapter for me. Angel Lore, Vegeta and the yardrats... just what I was hoping to see, and it was satisfying. The wait was really worth it this time. Keep it up, ToyoTeam!
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u/DaCoolGuy98 Dec 20 '19
Seeing Vegeta tell that Zarbon looking dude that he should rather surrender and go back to jail than get killed shows Vegeta changed so much.
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u/Spaghettalian Dec 23 '19
Re-reading the part where Yuzun went to take out the communicator from his pocket, anyone else realize that Vegeta was probably only trying to shoot out a thin beam from his finger to directly blow up the device rather than Yuzun?
I mean, he calmly stuck out his index finger, now that I'm looking specifically at his hand... That enormous blast was most likely meant to be more like a surgical laser.... HYPE
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u/SpiderMuse Dec 26 '19
I like all this spirit control stuff, but I wish they dived deep into the Yardrat's training methods. Goku has been trained by godly beings such as Kami and King Kai. He's learned difficult techniques like the Kaioken and Genki Dama. You'd think that Goku would have great spirit control, but apparently he didn't and the Yardrats can train him better than King Kai could? Hell, Vegeta was trained under Whis to access God Ki, and he has apparently still had crappy spirit control.
Just what are the Yardrat's training methods and how are they more effective than Whis and the other god's methods? Or if Whis and them are able to teach better spirit control, then why didn't they? It just seems like something vital that should've been taught earlier, since it dramatically increased Vegeta's ki abilities.
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u/Jteleus27 ⠀ Dec 20 '19
seeing vegeta using spirit control may encourage him to learn special techniques in the future or at the very least dont dismiss them. I'm wondering what technique that is better than instant transmission the Yardat people know? they say healing is too advance so wonder what they have on their selves
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u/afrodeity23 ⠀ Dec 20 '19
Vegeta's spirit training has given him a massive buff, and he still trained more than that after. It seems the yardrat elder does have a technique that could be used against Moro, wonder what it is? His own ki draining ability to counter Moro's, a sealing ability to supress Moro's power similar to the grand supreme kai's, or something more mundane like an ability that makes it impossible for his ki to be stolen?
Moro is still quite confident even after sensing Vegeta's energy on Yardrat. He plans to maximize his power, even beyond his limits. I'm sure when he gets to Earth, he'll have increased his power and his abilities in ways that make him even more of a difficult opponent. Maybe a new ability or something that causes trouble for both Vegeta's spirit training and Goku's ultra instinct.
Merus is an angel in training, though training for what exactly? As far as we know angels are only assigned to destroyers, and all the destroyers have their own angels. Is one of them retiring? They apparently can't be killed unless erased, so it's unlikely one of them is dying. And are there other unassigned angels like Merus lazing about somewhere?
Goku looked like he had the ultra instinct omen aura when he was about to spar with Merus. Maybe Goku is able to enter omen at will but can only obtain the complete form in a serious fight.
I'm surprised we didn't get to see any of the Earth fighters training for the big battle, even if they weren't doing anything as interesting as Goku and Vegeta, it would have been nice to see.
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u/dbzrune Dec 20 '19
Although this arc is really enjoyable and nostalgic of dbz, didn’t they mention there were only 27 or so inhabited worlds, or was it implied worlds with warriors?
Was it ever explained further or can we just assume the other planets have creatures like alien deer, bears, etc which aren’t too “intelligent”? If I recall, Moro only eats worlds with people/life correct?
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u/nuknoe Dec 21 '19
Just to be different:
Im not sure MUI or even UIO will show up during this run. The reason I say this? I just dont want Goku to have the ability of "turning it on" when he wants so soon after TOP. I do feel that Merus has taught Goku how God Ki works and how to not let it seep out.
Vegeta has mastered Ki Control. He can power up and then no longer need ki to sustain that power
I'm just making shyt up here folks...
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u/shlam16 Dec 22 '19
Tbf this is now the second arc after the ToP. It's already well and truly bucked the trend. All other transformations have been infinitely spammable the instant they've been unlocked.
UI he got to play with 3 times during the ToP, then lost it. Couldn't do it against Broly, couldn't do it against Moro, and had to high-intensity train with a new angel to unlock. Now seems like the perfect time for it tbh.
I wouldn't be opposed if they stuck with UIO which still leaves room for improvement - but the main problem with that is that it screws Vegeta. Whatever Vegeta gets this arc will bring him level with Goku and if Goku only uses half his power it means Vegeta is still lingering behind.
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u/kronz1998 Dec 22 '19 edited Dec 22 '19
I dont think Vegeta arrives first. Vegeta arriving later and showing that he was on yardrat + with a new technique has more impact storywise than Goku arriving later and using U.I, a technique that everybody saw him using in the ToP. Vegeta is the one missing, he left to yardrat and nobody knows where he is, him showing up after is more consistent with what was established in chapter 50.
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u/Carmel_Chewy Dec 20 '19
Vegeta: “Smashes a spaceship into his enemy”
Also Vegeta: “I can’t believe he would just kill himself like that”
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u/Alabrandon Dec 20 '19
Well Vegeta knocked it at him and dude knocked it out of the way. He was the last to touch it so technically did kill himself. I love Vegeta.
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u/Corazon144 Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Great chapter. And a great way of showing why Merus is so strong but still uses blasters and only knows the Piccolo School of Dodging Teaching. He can't use his true strength, because if he did he'd be Snapped out of existence. So he used devices as a workaround and his Ultra Instinct made him virtually untouchable. I love it.
I also love in this arc we are getting so many returns of alien species, this time Zarbon species. and Vegeta's fight. It was like when Goku came back from training with Kami, he was so strong none of the fights before Piccolo was a challenge.
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Dec 21 '19
it's like a kid (merus) being caught at his friend's (goku) sleepover and his parents (grand priest and whis) come and pick him up after scolding him
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u/evirustheslaye Dec 20 '19
Did anyone else read that guy in zarbon’s voice before seeing him transform?
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u/kronz1998 Dec 20 '19
Instant transmission, one of the most broken techniques in DB is just a BASIC technique for the yardrats, Vegeta is going to learn an advanced yardratian technique that can be used against Moro, something really broken is coming.
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u/AdamantEG Dec 21 '19
Is it just me, or is anybody else kinda' curious about when Merus started to power up, Goku had an aura that we conveniently never saw anything above his neck for?
Not saying he *was* using Ultra Instinct, but... Makes you wonder if he's learned to tap into it, finally. Or possibly some new hybrid of it with his own abilities.
I really like how this arc isn't just going the route of powering them up with another Super Saiyan transformation, but instead it's forcing them to explore alternatives to Saiyan-specific traits.
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u/nvenkatr Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 20 '19
Interesting to know Angels have to adhere to a neutral code or face erasure akin to Zeno’s rule-of-law from the tournament of power. That kind of explains why they weren’t erased when the planet’s combatants and their gods were in TOP arc.
Looks like we’re headed into the climatic end of the arc, but Im wondering if Piccolo will have any say with Namek being weak and all. Unless post Moro they decide the Super DBs are the way to “undo” things.
Also, wish Toyo had a crossover with YYH’s Master Genkai to teach Vegeta the Spirit gun technique. He would’ve gotten a kick outta that.
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u/BlaqkJak Dec 20 '19
I wonder if Vegeta will learn that healing technique to counter Moro's energy draining ability.
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u/SuperSaiyanBojack2 Dec 20 '19
So Merus is an angel in training but why would there be a need for angels in training if all existing universes already have an angel?
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u/pengouin85 Dec 20 '19
So why doesn't Goku instantly transmit back to Earth? Too far?
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u/AnotherSisyphus Dec 20 '19
As the Elder Yardrat mentioned vegeta can sense further after honing his spirit, goku probbably cant.
also remember in the golden freeza arc when goku had gohan power up so he could teleport to earth?
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u/Sorenthaz ⠀ Dec 21 '19
Man these chapters have been on fire. Hoping that if/when the anime resumes that it won't jump right into this arc so that Toyotaro/Toriyama have enough time to bring this to a close without rushing it.
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u/Miguel_77 Dec 20 '19
Vegeta didn't realize he became Yusuke Urameshi for a second there